Equal Rights?

[Shasta]

IF it were that obvious then we would not be having this conversation in the first place

Why can't it be that obvious?

 

[CREMATOR666]

It is not that simple after all to get rid of racism is it?

 

[Nat Turner]

But in an unequal society (ie rich and poor aside from race), unless you're going to start brainwashing people, there will still be an effective element of racism in society. Getting rid of government assistance for minorities is not going to stop that.

Even if there is, the people will be prosecuted if they do anything racist that's illegal. You still shouldn't cater to specific groups at different levels through the government. Even though your intentions are good, this is the kind of thought that leads to slavery.

 

[pomegranate]

How do you reckon that?

 

[Nat Turner]

How do you reckon that?

Because all racial discrimination at a governmental level is wrong. I still don't understand why you like discrimination.

 

[pomegranate]

I think I already explained it. You saying that it leads to slavery didn't invalidate what I said.

 

[Nat Turner]

I think I already explained it. You saying that it leads to slavery didn't invalidate what I said.

If you have different groups of people being treated differently on the basis of skin color, you can justify racism at any level by saying "it's better for society".

 

[pomegranate]

I don't see how that follows what we were just talking about, please stick to one point at a time...

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

It is discrimination and not right but if it's a private institution it's perfectly within their rights to do. Well at least here in the US.

If it's a public institution, they're not allowed (again at least here).

 

[Shasta]

It is discrimination and not right but if it's a private institution it's perfectly within their rights to do. Well at least here in the US.

If it's a public institution, they're not allowed (again at least here).

Wow. I didn't know that. I didn't think anyone was allowed to discriminate at all.

 

[Shasta]

I don't see how that follows what we were just talking about, please stick to one point at a time...

I think the point of this thread was to say "how can institutions and governments encourage, condone, and use racisim in any form, including helping groups based on race? Is it right?"

I think that as long as racial statistics are provided all the time, ie: 5% of the populatioin are unemployed- 70% of unemployed people are black, 15% are white, 15% are asian etc, then public reaction is going to follow. If instead it just said, 5% of the country is unemployed, isn't that what matters?

 

[the_rebel_medic]

pfftt, you should see the racial discrimination in sydney ATM, we have riots up there FFS.

 

[Dan]

The reason that the government should be helping mistreated minorities rather than all of the poor people is that those minorities have been specifically pushed into the lower economic level of society by that same government in the past.

You can try to help all the poor people, but there are always going to be an upper class and a lower class as long as we have property and ownership and wealth.

Lets take the case of two bums on the street. These represent the general circumstances. There will always be people who don't fit the stereotype, but were not dealing with specifics. So one bum is white, call him A. He had a well off middle class family but didn't get along with his parents, so he ran away to try and sell crack on the corner. The other bum, call him B is a native of the country. His father is an alcoholic and he or maybe his father before hiim was taken away from his parents as a child and ****ed up in residential schools and denied an education. So bum B follows his dad's example and becomes an alcoholic too. A's situation is a product of society. There's always going to be runaways and crackheads. B's situation is a direct product of the governments racist policies 100 years ago. If the government has a sense or responsibility they will try to fix what they have done wrong and help all of those natives.

If a black person is a millionaire now, maybe that person could have been a billionaire if his grandparents weren't oppressed. If the government takes responsibility for its past actions and tries to address what it has done. Then on average, it might be able to equal things out and level the playing field for everyone regardless of race.

Think of it this way. A kid is being a jerk, he beats you up every lunch hour and steals your money. 10 or 20 years later you both grow up and if you're not doing so well in life, maybe it's because of the crappy childhood you had at his hands. Maybe you live on the street now. Well if that kid realizes that he was a jerk and if he's a good person or he wants to appear to be a good person he'll apologize, like many governments have done in modern times for past actions. And if that kid is responsible what he should do is try to help you out now to make ammends for what he did before. If he's not responsible he might just say "hey the pasts the past" live with it. And if he's still a jerk he'll keep bullying other people that he has power over. Get the analogy? He can't help out every bum on the street that he sees, but he's responsible for putting you there, so he "ought" to help you out.

 

[Shasta]

The reason that the government should be helping mistreated minorities rather than all of the poor people is that those minorities have been specifically pushed into the lower economic level of society by that same government in the past.

You can try to help all the poor people, but there are always going to be an upper class and a lower class as long as we have property and ownership and wealth.

Lets take the case of two bums on the street. These represent the general circumstances. There will always be people who don't fit the stereotype, but were not dealing with specifics. So one bum is white, call him A. He had a well off middle class family but didn't get along with his parents, so he ran away to try and sell crack on the corner. The other bum, call him B is a native of the country. His father is an alcoholic and he or maybe his father before hiim was taken away from his parents as a child and ****ed up in residential schools and denied an education. So bum B follows his dad's example and becomes an alcoholic too. A's situation is a product of society. There's always going to be runaways and crackheads. B's situation is a direct product of the governments racist policies 100 years ago. If the government has a sense or responsibility they will try to fix what they have done wrong and help all of those natives.

If a black person is a millionaire now, maybe that person could have been a billionaire if his grandparents weren't oppressed. If the government takes responsibility for its past actions and tries to address what it has done. Then on average, it might be able to equal things out and level the playing field for everyone regardless of race.

Think of it this way. A kid is being a jerk, he beats you up every lunch hour and steals your money. 10 or 20 years later you both grow up and if you're not doing so well in life, maybe it's because of the crappy childhood you had at his hands. Maybe you live on the street now. Well if that kid realizes that he was a jerk and if he's a good person or he wants to appear to be a good person he'll apologize, like many governments have done in modern times for past actions. And if that kid is responsible what he should do is try to help you out now to make ammends for what he did before. If he's not responsible he might just say "hey the pasts the past" live with it. And if he's still a jerk he'll keep bullying other people that he has power over. Get the analogy? He can't help out every bum on the street that he sees, but he's responsible for putting you there, so he "ought" to help you out.

Very well put, but I don't agree. Over here, tribes are being given millions of dollars each, plus as I said earlier, they have been given loads of land, and now control of all foreshore and seabeds. Isn't that too much already, as now non-maoris are very restricted in those areas, and must apply for a special license to take any seafood from our beaches. When will it end? I didn't do anything wrong, and neither did my parents, or theirs, who came to this country. Why should I be punished, just because I'm white?

 

[ríomhaire]

It's not as simple as the fact that's he's black though, is it?

Well that's the bloody point. Government legeslaton shouldn't take into acount if someone is black or not.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Wow. I didn't know that. I didn't think anyone was allowed to discriminate at all.

It would be an infringement on the discriminator's rights to do that. I find what they have to say to be disgusting and horrid, but you can't ban it. If someone has a private organization there is no way you can force them to accept someone they don't wish to. Only when it's public.