F*** the normal developpement process!

[Ultimape]

Valve really lied with many things that were in the videos, like the hydras, and blocking the doors.

They are abusing of us.... but what can we do?

Complaining won't change anything.

Valve should apologise fans for lying (i dunno if it's the correct word) .

But you won't change nothing. And me neither. So all of you stop saying that valve is the great one and that they didn't lied to us, and olograph, please shut up, that won't change anything.

Lied? heh. I was never lied to. They were demoing what they were working on. the only time they ever said anything was actually going to be in the game, was at the E3 2004 (and by all acoutns all of that IS in the game).

ALL THE OTHER TIMES WERE PREVIEWS TO THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY OF WHAT THEY COULD DO WITH THE SOURCE ENGINE, NOT WHAT THEY WILL ACTUALLY DO IN THE GAME.

You will find that all of the bink .exe videos were from a presentation SHOWING OFF the source engine and what they could do with it. Taken in that context, there are no lies.

If you took them for what they were, and were presented as, (DEMONSTRATIONS OF POSSIBILITY OF SOURCE ENGINE) you would find that you weren't lied to at all, nor were you mis-led at anypoint. Its not valve's fault that you were decived, as it was you whom tricked yourself into thinking it was going to be part of the game.

 

[BlackMesaDude]

But showing off cool stuff and then remove it is stupid ? i think it would be cool if the hydra was in the game,, or some other enemies? the enemies in hl2 is way to low.. the combines just suck perhaps early in the game they fit but not through most of the game....

If the source engine is so damn good how come there are no real cool monsters ?

 

[DreamWraith]

what i find funny about all of these threads, is that 'fans' seems to think that the demos that valve released were intended as teasers, because they were at E3. Considering E3 is an Industry event for people IN the industry, that would suggest the target audience to be people IN the INdustry. Not 14 year old pre-pubescent boys who whine and cry because a game doesnt use its engines fullest capabilities, so that they can play it on their ge force 2, which by the way doesnt even support the so called HDRL, etc they are whining about in the first place.

Valve released Source Engine Tech Demos, not half life 2 teasers, that used HDRL and other fancy effects.

Get your facts straight and use some logic before running off crying because half life 2 doesnt USE hdrl.

 

[Styloid]

Things were cut for a reason-- not because Valve wanted to take away your fun. Six months were spent on the Hydra to get it working; I guarantee you it was not easy for Valve to cut it but they did because in the end it was not fun to play. Some characters and environments were also cut because they took away from the focus of the game-- isn't it better to have Alyx (or Eli or Mossman) as a lingering character rather than have two times as many characters but spend little time actually interacting with them?

E3 was proof-of-concept unedited work. Editing is essential to making a cohesive game-- you don't just throw everything you come up with into a game and then expect it all to tie together and be fun.

 

[Eunoch]

olograph stop making a fool of yourself. if u have something to say then say it in a productive and helpful way

 

[rrm]

You people are insane. let others express their opinions

I don't know if the game was rushed (although the team spent too much time in crunch mode), but Valve's original ambitions for it were much bigger. You can know this because they were planning it to be about 36 hours long, and it turned out to be like half of that. hey, the deatmatch was ready only a few weeks ago. Also remember that the creation tools were very buggy until this year

I think that valve had to decide to make a compact game, much shorter than they were planning. just look at the number of enemies, the weak ending, the poor/inexistant story.. It is very polished but feels so incomplete... at times I think its little more than a technology showcase... with some of those physics puzzles

 

[Sparta]

If the source engine is so damn good how come there are no real cool monsters ?

That has absolutely nothing to do with the Source engine.

 

[hbegg]

That has absolutely nothing to do with the Source engine.

Here here

 

[$kelet0r]

am i the only one who misses the OICW m29

 

[NapalmAndFriends]

Not 14 year old pre-pubescent boys who whine and cry because a game doesnt use its engines fullest capabilities, so that they can play it on their ge force 2, which by the way doesnt even support the so called HDRL, etc they are whining about in the first place.

When the **** will people stop bashing teens? :x

 

[Styloid]

I think that valve had to decide to make a compact game, much shorter than they were planning. just look at the number of enemies, the weak ending, the poor/inexistant story.. It is very polished but feels so incomplete... at times I think its little more than a technology showcase... with some of those physics puzzles

Really? I haven't seen the Raising the Bar book so I only know what I've heard. What was the original ending going to be like? I know there was going to be a ship portion at the beginning of the game, a wasteland portion before City 17, that there was going to be an Air Exchange and that Alyx originally wasn't going to be Eli's daughter. These changes I'm glad they made because they wouldn't have fit the story and Eli and Alyx were great in the game... then again I was also pretty happy with the ending but I'm really curious as to what else Valve would do since I always thought they would save the big revelations for HL3.

Personally, I think HL2 should have been longer because it is supposed to take place over 3 days but the game adds up to only about 20 hours and the time doesn't correlate. A 72 hr game, though, would be pretty tedious and 'filler' gameplay would be inevitable (gameplay should take priority over amount of time). I do have respect for Valve for delivering the best 20 hours in any FPS I've ever played.
On a bit of a sidenote, http://www.ntsc-uk.com/feature.php?fea=HalfLife2UnderTheSurface this articles expresses partly how I feel about HL2's story, though it does go a bit overboard.

 

[ZeeM]

Its not illegal

Oh yeah it is! It`s like selling something that is not they way it was advertised. Something different. Something WORSE

 

[Mr-Fusion]

When the **** will people stop bashing teens? :x

Not anytime soon.

but Valve's original ambitions for it were much bigger

As was the case with Half-Life 1.

Biggest mistake Valve have ever made was showing Half-Life2 at E3 2003. It was a mistake beyond description and it's actually the second time they've done that. When they showed Half-Life at e3 1997 it was COMPLETELY changed by the time it was released.

VALVE SHOULD STOP SHOWING THINGS AT E3!! STOP IT NOW!! :upstare:

 

[moonkids]

I loved the story and the ending. I loved the weapon balance. I'm much more likely to complain about games that have too many weapons/levels/enemies just for the sake of it, and aren't fun at all. HL2 took so long to develop precisely because they were choosy about what they put into it-- they only left in the fun, and cut the crap. I wish other developers would follow suit. And you've got to be joking if you think they rushed it-- it took 6 years!

 

[Dalamari]

Please close/delete this thread.

 

[EvilInside]

I Think it's great most of the scenes we saw in the videos were changed. We got too much info from those videos and we would have had a lot of it spoiled with them. Maybe im the only one who see's it this way tho.
About the cut weapons Id say that's a level design issue. If it helped to make the levels more playable im glad they took them off. They could have added more? well.. Sure, you can add more weapons to every game out there. Maybe they will add more in the expansions?

It seems Short? Sure I agree, however, if the game sucked as you said ,it would have seem'd long as hell. Good games usually seem shorter than bad games with the same size.

About the rushing: This must be one of the lesser bugged games ive played in my life(talking about the game itself not steam or installation related issues). Specially lately, developers use to rush their games into the market and release unplayable games. I must congratulate Valve for holding the game till it was "bug free". I preffer to wait even a year if i get a game with this quality.

I dont think HL2 It's the best game ive played. it's probably the best FPS ive played, however, I understand people love this game. Id say it's outstanding.

My only complain about this game was the awful installation issues. It took me 40 minutes to install the game, and I bet any illegal copy installs much faster. Valve should think about that.

And one last thing, and im not trying to offend you. I didnt like FarCry... and you know what? I dont waste my time posting on the FarCry forums bitching about it and saying how much it sucks.

My advise: If you actually liked HL2 and you are just mad cause It was short or were things cut, enjoy the game instead of duelling about it. it's one of the best games you will be playing for a while
and think about the mods you will be getting from the fans out there.

 

[Vormulac]

am i the only one who misses the OICW m29

Probably.

How could I miss it? I never had it!

 

[Ecthe|ioN]

I Think it's great most of the scenes we saw in the videos were changed. We got too much info from those videos and we would have had a lot of it spoiled with them. Maybe im the only one who see's it this way tho.
About the cut weapons Id say that's a level design issue. If it helped to make the levels more playable im glad they took them off. They could have added more? well.. Sure, you can add more weapons to every game out there. Maybe they will add more in the expansions?

It seems Short? Sure I agree, however, if the game sucked as you said ,it would have seem'd long as hell. Good games usually seem shorter than bad games with the same size.

About the rushing: This must be one of the lesser bugged games ive played in my life(talking about the game itself not steam or installation related issues). Specially lately, developers use to rush their games into the market and release unplayable games. I must congratulate Valve for holding the game till it was "bug free". I preffer to wait even a year if i get a game with this quality.

I dont think HL2 It's the best game ive played. it's probably the best FPS ive played, however, I understand people love this game. Id say it's outstanding.

My only complain about this game was the awful installation issues. It took me 40 minutes to install the game, and I bet any illegal copy installs much faster. Valve should think about that.

And one last thing, and im not trying to offend you. I didnt like FarCry... and you know what? I dont waste my time posting on the FarCry forums bitching about it and saying how much it sucks.

My advise: If you actually liked HL2 and you are just mad cause It was short or were things cut, enjoy the game instead of duelling about it. it's one of the best games you will be playing for a while
and think about the mods you will be getting from the fans out there.

I agree on the cutting of the scenes. I don't mind the cutting of the weapons either, as the maps would probably have been filled with all sorts of ammo lying around, and I don't like that.

The game was long enough to keep me on the edge of my seat all the way through it. Sure it could have been a few hours longer, but what difference would it make. The story was suited for the length of the game.

I also agree on the fact that Half-Life 2 is not buggy at all. It doesn't seem rushed.'

I think Half-Life 2 is the best FPS I've ever played, but of course not the best game ever. It sure makes a new standard in the genre of first-person-shooters, so we'll have a lot to look forward to if Half-Life 3 has the same "freshness".

I sent a mail and congratulated Gabe Newell with the game a few weeks ago, and said that he and his crew had sucessfully made a game that made my finace angry (she didn't see me for a few days). He actually replied to me about a minute later, with thank-you's, and an advice to make my fiance play CS:S with me. It's amazing that someone like Gabe Newell would actually take the time to answer a mail from a Norwegian gamer like myself. That's why I love Valve. They make great games, and they take good care of the majority of the community.

Good work Valve.

 

[:Rex Saw:]

I've been disappointed when I finished HL2.......****..... half of the scenes were cut ....it's the same for the guns and the story is really cheap and underdeveloped.

Seriously.......I think that the fact that there's a lot of missing things is because valve had a big rush to finish the game. It's not the normal development of a game as some stupid ass holes said!
...

Stop comparing the game to the ****ing tech-demos. "Scenes were cut." Jesus christ, what is the DEAL with you people?

Why are you rating the game based on the disparity between this final version and the tech demo????? Who gives a shit what was in the demos, they're not in the game now!! Deleted scenes? Yup. Deal with it. Missing guns/items? They'll be brought back in mods, so just wait a little.

What about all the stuff in the game that is NOT IN THE DEMOS. Thought about that??????

 

[RomeoJGuy]

Just to clear it up they hydra did work from a technical point, but not as a Gameplay point.

In the leak all that needed to be fixed mainly was that the code for updating the killed ragdolls angle was not set properly and was being reset always to (0,0,0)

It even has code to remove the ragdoll and fling it off. Just needs to be programmed to do it after it grabs something.

 

[RabidJester]

The only good games ever have been the games with lots of guns, right?

 

[AJ Rimmer]

When the **** will people stop bashing teens? :x

See the thing is that teenagers aren't in Half-life or half-life2, or dokusoaps or gameshows etc etc, which is why we feel superior to these things and can complain about them. Complaining however pisses people off. Especially if you're stupid.

 

[Plug]

thanks

this was such fantastic entertainment!

 

[MigaS_tX]

Lied? heh. I was never lied to. They were demoing what they were working on. the only time they ever said anything was actually going to be in the game, was at the E3 2004 (and by all acoutns all of that IS in the game).

ALL THE OTHER TIMES WERE PREVIEWS TO THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY OF WHAT THEY COULD DO WITH THE SOURCE ENGINE, NOT WHAT THEY WILL ACTUALLY DO IN THE GAME.

You will find that all of the bink .exe videos were from a presentation SHOWING OFF the source engine and what they could do with it. Taken in that context, there are no lies.

If you took them for what they were, and were presented as, (DEMONSTRATIONS OF POSSIBILITY OF SOURCE ENGINE) you would find that you weren't lied to at all, nor were you mis-led at anypoint. Its not valve's fault that you were decived, as it was you whom tricked yourself into thinking it was going to be part of the game.

Hey capswhore, almost everyone thought that it would be in game.

"we have lied to you, but it's not a lie, it's a legal lie".
"we made you think that you would have 2 chocolates with our engine, but you have 3 apples. you could have 2 chocolates with our engine."

I don't like that. Sorry if Valve didn't mean to "lie" .

 

[freeman2]

How many more threads are we going to see about things being cut out from the game?

This is getting rather boring.

 

[rrm]

Really? I haven't seen the Raising the Bar book so I only know what I've heard. What was the original ending going to be like? I know there was going to be a ship portion at the beginning of the game, a wasteland portion before City 17, that there was going to be an Air Exchange and that Alyx originally wasn't going to be Eli's daughter. These changes I'm glad they made because they wouldn't have fit the story and Eli and Alyx were great in the game... then again I was also pretty happy with the ending but I'm really curious as to what else Valve would do since I always thought they would save the big revelations for HL3.

Personally, I think HL2 should have been longer because it is supposed to take place over 3 days but the game adds up to only about 20 hours and the time doesn't correlate. A 72 hr game, though, would be pretty tedious and 'filler' gameplay would be inevitable (gameplay should take priority over amount of time). I do have respect for Valve for delivering the best 20 hours in any FPS I've ever played.
On a bit of a sidenote, http://www.ntsc-uk.com/feature.php?fea=HalfLife2UnderTheSurface this articles expresses partly how I feel about HL2's story, though it does go a bit overboard.

well I don't have the book so I don't know if there was going to be a better ending, but remember all the stuff valve has said. we were actually going to learn a lot about the gman, there were going to be icthys and more creatures for xen than the ones we got, Eli was going to explain what happened to earth since the black mesa incident, the factory parts were going to be much longer and cooler... oh and the air exchange

its fun but I don't feel satisfied. Yeah, they also had big ambitions for half life, but it had a good amount of enemies for the time, and a simple but coherent plot.

 

[PedroTheLion]

am i the only one who misses the OICW m29

Considering that it's still in development (if at all), I don't really miss it. Focus has seemed to shift to the XM8, which is just the m29 without the grenade launcher, which was extremely impractical anyways.

 

[MysticalMrBob]

The story is definetly well thought out. I'd like to compare HL2 to the first matrix. You can tell there are some deep histories to many things, as they like to hint at it subtly (they scorched the sky, merovingian, etc) and they explain all those things in either the last one, or through extra side-stories, like in the Animatrix, or other various works. HL2's story will probably be fleshed out and clearly explained after HL3 is released, and HL2 expansion packs (this is the only game where I'd rather get 3 expansion packs sooner, rather than a full blown, amazing sequel later) that are bound to be released.

The weapons? Well, I agree with that. It did lack weapons, and lots of stuff were cut. But you wouldn't notice ANYTHING was cut if you hadn't seen all the preview stuff. It doesn't really HINDER the game at all, we just had some high hopes and stuff.

 

[BladeTurbo]

1. Your an idiot.
2. You know what, I think I covered it all with 1.
3. Just to reinforce my point, your an idiot.

hahaha, good one

 

[BladeTurbo]

Idiot 101.

i think if you put this in the console, it brings up a list of all the people who continue to knit pick the game in this forum. don't forget, steam is always updating so i'm sure they are recording names so we can make fun of them and see how many idiots there actually are...

also idiot 102 brings up Olograph's name :E

 

[moggy]

So, you went out of your way to use illegal software to make yourself unhappy.
You of all people should have known the concept of ignorance being bliss.

haha

but he is right to gripe a little.

they did cut some good ideas which would have been better left off in the game.

it is all just the same disapponting story. as soon as a game gets it big and the sequel or something is in wait . because its become big business the game design process suffers to make way for its " release" and its "sales" therefore the real quality stuff is diluted, focus gets lost onm the actual project.

personally, i think valve cut a lot of stuff out because of the leak, probally too much, i find it ridiculous that they would cut and erase elements of a game just because it was leaked. tis such a weak response.

well i guess it is all victim to this petty litigation society where laws are becoming ridiculous

 

[Ennui]

they didn't because of the leak, they cut it because it hindered gameplay in some way. The hydra, for instance - well made, was awesome, but was hard to fight and detracted from fun.
Same story with a lot of things.

 

[KagePrototype]

it is all just the same disapponting story. as soon as a game gets it big and the sequel or something is in wait . because its become big business the game design process suffers to make way for its " release" and its "sales" therefore the real quality stuff is diluted, focus gets lost onm the actual project.

personally, i think valve cut a lot of stuff out because of the leak, probally too much, i find it ridiculous that they would cut and erase elements of a game just because it was leaked. tis such a weak response.

well i guess it is all victim to this petty litigation society where laws are becoming ridiculous

I find it funny how you're judging Valve based on pure and utter speculation; you're letting your imagination get the better of you here. It's like saying "Ooh, that guy looks like he killed someone" and then pointing at him shouting "MURDERER!!" Game developers cut things all the time, because they don't work as intended, because it would be too costly to implement and develop, etc. They didn't do it because of the leak, or because they wanted to get the game out sooner, or whatever; these things simply didn't work or weren't needed anymore.

 

[moggy]

I find it funny how you're judging Valve based on pure and utter speculation; you're letting your imagination get the better of you here. It's like saying "Ooh, that guy looks like he killed someone" and then pointing at him shouting "MURDERER!!"

it aint speculation, i know for a fact that some material was altered as a response to the leak. why they get it in thier heads to turn the other cheek so easliy nowadays amazes me.

they werent this fussy when the original was made.

they made very open demo for that and when they released the game it was still an absolute mindblower.

 

[KagePrototype]

it aint speculation, i know for a fact that some material was altered as a response to the leak.

Well, what did they change in response to the leak? All I can see are improvements , if this is the case. I do know that they changed stuff and removed stuff (for whatever reason), but what did they change in repsonse to the leak?