Facial animation in the next installment.

[Krynn72]

So I was playing LA Noire last night and got to thinking about how bad facial animation still is in most games. I could probably count the number of games I've played with GOOD facial animation on one hand. Hl2 is one of them. So I'm wondering, do you guys think we'll see any innovation in this aspect with the next installment of Half-life? Do you think they're going to stick with primarily hand-animation or might we see a LA Noire style motion capture system?

While I think technically the LA Noire system looked great, I found it actually it still lacking in creating any emotional connection. It was great for the gameplay aspect, but it relied too much on the actor's performance to get any emotion to break through the uncanny valley effect. The hand animation by Valve with Alyx, Eli, Kleiner, etc did much better in that regard, since they could tweak every last bit to make it perfect, which is much harder with motion capture.

 

[ríomhaire]

Well I think the issue with the LA Noire technology is that it scans the actual actors face meaning your character is going to look like your actor. Seeing as Half-Life characters already have distinct appearances that are not like their voice actors that would be pretty weird. One other problem with LA Noire is that they didn't seem to do any by-hand animation for the faces. It was all from the scanned actors. Because of this a character's face will sometimes freeze in position or instantly return to a neutral pose if they neglected to record an expression for that part of the scene. It only happened the very odd time but it was an annoying thing to notice.

 

[Lobster]

It's a difficult one because there are a lot of differing opinions out there regarding cut scenes and interactivity.

Personally I believe that while the industry has certainly got better at producing dramatic scenes, it's all meaningless if the camera is fixed in place. There is a great level of efficiency to having a game engine that can render lifelike scenes in real time, but as long as they are fixed-camera events, then the player isn't really affected by whether they are real time or not.

For me, one of the things that makes Half-Life unique, is the fact that NPC's are able to give fairly complex performances regardless of where the player is positioned in the room. Two characters can be having an animated conversation and still give convincing side glances to the player. Which still impresses me more than David Cage's games for example. It's cool to see these better performances in cutscenes, but in my opinion it hasn't really advanced anything from the player perspective yet.

However I imagine advanced motion capturing techniques would still be immensely useful for creating dynamic sequences in the future, because it offers a 3D reference better than any video clip.

 

[SpotEnemyBoats]

Portal 2's animation system was pretty awesome, considering it was using an old engine. I'm sure with Source 2, Valve will work extensively on making animation even better.

 

[-smash-]

LA Noire's facial animation tech wasn't that great. It kind of fell into the "uncanny valley" for me. From a development standpoint, the quality and productivity / time is pretty good, but the technology is expensive.

On the other hand I like Source's/Valve's artist style because it just feels more natural. The Shopkeeper in the Dota 2 trailer has a lot of character, and so does the cast from TF2, etc. Even Wheatley, who's more of a testament to the fact that Valve has talented animators, has more character than most of the other NPCs in the gamerverse.

Valve's working with MoCap now. It's gonna be interesting to watch how they use it in their games. But now I'm getting a little off-topic...

 

[TaoLishaoKTF]

Very intersting you mentioning mocap, seeing as Merle Dandridge just tweeted this picture. Couldbe nothing, maybe it isn't, but worth a mention: https://twitter.com/MerleDandridge/status/251347318236925952/photo/1/large

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

That's the voice actress, not mo-cap

She's doing "Last of Us"

 

[ríomhaire]

That's the voice actress, not mo-cap

She's doing "Last of Us"

Yep. People get way too excitable about the possibility of new Half-Life. Keep a rational head lads.

 

[DEATH eVADER]

So I was playing LA Noire last night and got to thinking about how bad facial animation still is in most games.

I had real problems with the facial animation in LAN. I understand that its in its infancy, but it still was conflicting with the uncanny valley

 

[Krynn72]

I had real problems with the facial animation in LAN. I understand that its in its infancy, but it still was conflicting with the uncanny valley

Yeah, it wasnt perfect, but still leagues ahead of the vast, vast majority of other games.

 

[Stigmata]

So I was playing LA Noire last night and got to thinking about how bad facial animation still is in most games. I could probably count the number of games I've played with GOOD facial animation on one hand. Hl2 is one of them. So I'm wondering, do you guys think we'll see any innovation in this aspect with the next installment of Half-life? Do you think they're going to stick with primarily hand-animation or might we see a LA Noire style motion capture system?

While I think technically the LA Noire system looked great, I found it actually it still lacking in creating any emotional connection. It was great for the gameplay aspect, but it relied too much on the actor's performance to get any emotion to break through the uncanny valley effect. The hand animation by Valve with Alyx, Eli, Kleiner, etc did much better in that regard, since they could tweak every last bit to make it perfect, which is much harder with motion capture.

I think they're going to stay away from facial mo-capping. Source's facial animation right now is, as I understand, half hand-animated and half automated through the muscular animation system. If they can find a way to uh, algorithm-ise emotive expression through that muscular animation system, they might be able to do away with manual face animation completely.

 

[morgs]

It seems like they've worked too hard on their facial animations to pack it in and go the easy mo-cap route. Valve have always wanted to take the road less traveled when it comes to stuff like this. (I know the mo-cap road isn't exactly traveled, but we'll see how that's changed in a year or so).

 

[Vegeta897]

Wait, facial mocapping is a thing? How the ****?

 

[Krynn72]

Wait, facial mocapping is a thing? How the ****?

Can't tell if you're joking...

 

[Vegeta897]

Hmm, I guess I didn't really think it through too much.

It seemed like a waste of time and money. I figured you'd only need to pose keyframes for facial expressions, which is a lot simpler than complex fluid motion of dozens of bones in a 3d space, which is why fully body mocap is useful.

 

[Krynn72]

Yeah, but... they've been using it in movies for like... almost a decade... and did you never see any footage of LA Noire? I'm just stunned you didnt know such a thing existed.

 

[ríomhaire]

Source's facial animation right now is, as I understand, half hand-animated and half automated through the muscular animation system.

I think it's that lip-syncing is automatic and everything is is by hand.

Also lol @ vegeta. How the hell did you think they did LA Noire and Avatar?

 

[Vegeta897]

Well I haven't played or seen that.

 

[Matt]

Pfft, facial animation. If Half-Life has taught me anything, there only need to be two animations: mouth open, and mouth closed. 100% realism.

 

[Shem]

Yeah, and what did Half-Life 2 teach you?

 

[Matt]

That using a dune buggy to run over crates containing valuable ammunition and medical supplies in the middle of a war-zone is a great idea, and that if I shoot or throw grenades at my friends nothing will happen. Half-Life 2 is the reason why I'm typing this in a prison for the manslaughter of near-death squad members and first-degree murder of my late friend Harry.

 

[Shem]

Would that prison happen to be Nova Prospekt?

Rimshot.

 

[Matt]

What do you call an exploding prison made of plasma?
A super-nova prospekt!

Rimshot.

 

[Shem]

The prospekt of you making a good joke lowers with each subsequent post.

Rimshot.

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

I dunno dude, I'd say his humor is pretty consistent and funny

 

[Shem]

I like how he gets all the likes and funny faces for his jokes but when I make mine I get nothing. Does this imply his are better than mine? Because let's face it, my humor is pretty consistent and funny too. And there was a pun right there that I just italicized for those of you who are lacking a bit in the intelligence department. You're ****ing welcome.

 

[Matt]

That joke about faces was certainly... SHEM-TACULAR!

 

[Shem]

Fine, I'll admit it. That one was good. Maybe he is better than me. And he's only been here since Thursday. Can only imagine the level of humor he'll have achieved when he's been here as long as me. How long has it been guys? Four years? Jesus Christ. And this Matt guy replaces me in less than a week. My life is over, kill me.

 

[Matt]

I know, that was hilarious! Gee, it sure took me a while to come up with that "joke". Haha. Shem-tacular?! Ha! Man, you gotta listen to the jokes I make on the Mine-Craft forum, they certainly are... top Notch humor! Shem, it was a good choice to follow me, because maybe I'll make a joke about pipelines somewhere along the... line! Oh man, these terrible puns just keep getting worse and worse, unlike my Chris Brown jokes, which will keep getting beater and be-

And it was at that moment that Matt burst into tears, crying about the horrifically bad state of his life, which he had wasted at least seven eighths of on the internet.

 

[Shem]

It seems the Matter of who is funnier between the two of us may never be settled. We've pretty much gone face-to-face this entire time. Which is why it autoMatttically came to me to befriend you. We're a perfect Mattch.

By the way that took me like an hour and a half(-Life 2) so give me credit.

 

[Matt]

After following Shemar Moore on twitter and creating a post about Shem Tutapu on worldfootynews.com, I took off my shemagh, and decided to go to my computer. I couldn't find it anywhere, it must have been stolen, Shem. What a shem. That shem that stole it was most likely a member of the shematthew fandom. Well, I found it. Oh yeah, and HAIL SATAN! Shemhamforash!

All of these are real words, I swear! It says so on Urban Dictionary.

 

[Matt]

Comments to Days Ratio = 2.71428571429:1
Days in 4 years = 1460.97.
2.71428571429 x 1460.97 = 3965.49

The amount of "humorous" comments I shall generate in 4 years is: 3965.49. So yeah.

 

[Shem]

I ****ing love you.