Father beats man to death after catching him molesting 4 year old daughter

CptStern

CptStern

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A father beat a man to death after catching him molesting his four-year-old daughter in a barn.
The man - whose name has not been released to protect his daughter - allegedly beat the attacker over the head when he pulled him off his child after discovering them in a barn in Lavaca County, Texas.

The father and daughter were said to be at the barn with a number of other people tending to horses, according to the Houston Chronicle.
The girl was then heard screaming a short time later and when her father went to see what was wrong, he saw the man sexually assault her.
When he pulled him off her, he allegedly hit him several times over the head.
No arrests have been made in the case. A grand jury will determine what, if any charges will be filed.
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they should give him a medal

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...g-molest-year-old-daughter.html#ixzz1xc2AiumI
 
How am I supposed to make a pun about something like this? Damnit Stern, dont you think before you post?
 
No jury would find this man guilty. Especially not in Texas.
 
Ah, back to the old kneejerk condoning of murder, are we Stern?
 
Confirmed: Viper is an advocate of child molestation. Bring the torches boys.
 
Viperidae said:
Ah, back to the old kneejerk condoning of murder, are we Stern?
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Looking from a third party perspective it's easy to say 'oh murder is wrong', but if that was your 4 year old daughter you would lose your shit. We all would, man!

Personally I don't think this guy deserves jail time for this.
 
Dog-- said:
Looking from a third party perspective it's easy to say 'oh murder is wrong', but if that was your 4 year old daughter you would lose your shit. We all would, man!
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True, but then you're condoning emotional reactions as valid. I personally don't believe murder is ever really justified, even if it were my daughter. One less than several punches to the head would have sufficed.
 
Stigmata said:
True, but then you're condoning emotional reactions as valid. I personally don't believe murder is ever really justified, even if it were my daughter. One less than several punches to the head would have sufficed.
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Yep. The man was killed because some guy was angry at him and beat him to death. That happens all the time, but it doesnt matter if he was rightfully pissed off or not, he's not the one who gets to determine punishment. In that emotional state, I might have done the same, but I'd still be in the wrong. The rapist deserved it, but true justice demands a trial and unbiased determination of punishment. Wont someone think of the justice?
 
I like the way Clooney put it in that movie Ides of March.

Murdering for that is wrong, but it's what anyone would do and they should be punished for it. Ideally, the father would rather go to jail than let that guy live.
 
Viperidae said:
Ah, back to the old kneejerk condoning of murder, are we Stern?
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defense is not murder. texas laws allows for self defense of others. the courts get to decide if his response to the threat to his daughter was appropriate. no jury would convict him if they decided to press charges. so far they havent

SUBCHAPTER C. PROTECTION OF PERSONS
9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person
is justified in using deadly force against another:
to prevent the other's imminent commission of
aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual
assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.9.htm
 
He wasn't arguing the legality Stern, just the implication you made of it's ethical position.
 
Krynn72 said:
He wasn't arguing the legality Stern, just the implication you made of it's ethical position.
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deadly force used in defense of family is ethical to me. I'm sure most people would agree
 
CptStern said:
defense is not murder. texas laws allows for self defense of others. the courts get to decide if his response to the threat to his daughter was appropriate. no jury would convict him if they decided to press charges. so far they havent
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And now Stern is defending Texas law? O lawd.

In Toronto the man would have gotten manslaughter. Time to move, finally?
 
right. if the crown bothered to press charges. the canadian charter of rights allows people to use whatever force necessary to defend themselves from assault. a jury wouldnt convict him


also nothing is worth moving to texas
 
But the key word there is necessary. It isn't necessary to punch a man to death to defend a family member from a non-life-threatening assault. Escalation of force applies. That being said, we don't know whether this guy was simply very strong and/or was coursing with adrenalic strength (adrenalic is now a word, I don't give a what), or whether he subdued the assaulter and then kept going until the guy stopped moving.
 
Stigmata said:
But the key word there is necessary. It isn't necessary to punch a man to death to defend a family member from a non-life-threatening assault.
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That cocksucker was molesting his child.

non-life-threatening assault? how the **** can you even say that? again: molesting his child

He shouldnt have to do time imo
 
sure it does but you have to prove he intended to kill the attacker. or that he was in the right frame of mind to understand what he was doing and that it could have unforseen consequences. classic case of being in an emotional state that could have impaired his judgement.his lawyer could (successfully imho) argue that he had no way of knowing his daughter's life wasnt at risk. she was screaming at the time

anyways this didnt happen in toronto. but if it had, ontario law allows for deadly force so long as the person believes their loved one is at risk of grevious bodily injury. not just risk of death. injury is good enough.
 
mechanicallizard said:
That cocksucker was molesting his child.

non-life-threatening assault? how the **** can you even say that? again: molesting his child

He shouldnt have to do time imo
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Molestation does not KILL people. I'm not trying to justify or argue in favour of this pedophile's actions, I'm just trying to keep a level head here.
 
doesnt have to be life threatening. simply doing harm is justification enough. the girl is 4 years old. sexual assualt WOULD cause grevious harm.

In the Criminal Code of Canada, "bodily harm" is defined as "any hurt or injury to a person that interferes with the health or comfort of the person and that is more than merely transient or trifling in nature."

in any event this happened in texas. I wouldnt be surprised if the courts order the pedo be re-animated so the father could beat him to death again and again followed by lethal injection
 
Why would a trial be necessary, the guy was caught in the act.
 
There should certainly be a trial to determine whether or not his actions were justified (I honestly cannot blame the man). Whether or not he was in the right in doing so, a life has been taken and the circumstances should be investigated properly.
 
Grey area is grey. All I can say is I don't envy the poor bastard who has to decide what happens to him.
 
The thing with me is, I'm sure the rapist wasn't continually trying to rape whilst getting beaten. Like, the only "necessary force" would surely have been shoving the guy off and maybe a kick or two to send the message home. Unless the guy took a few punches, and then tried to get back at the girl, that should have been enough. Although I suppose if the rapist started attacking the father to try and escape, there would be risk to the father (I would think detaining the man until police arrived a fair action). So I dunno, it'd depend on the specifics of the case, as it always should. Might be I'd say he gets off scott free for self defense, might be I'd say he serves a year or two for taking justice into his own hands without true cause.
 
you're missing a big component to this:

a 47 year old half naked man was on top of his 4 year old daughter

if there was a case that lends validity to the defense of temporary insanity causing death this is it. a jury will most likely see it this way, barring any extenuating circumstances.
 
I'm not sure the insanity defense could legitimately be construed that way. That'd be legitimizing that defense for anybody who gets supremely pissed off and kills someone, IE 90% of all the murders ever.
 
ya but he wouldnt have to plead temp insanity as the law is on his side. he has a right to use deadly force

under the circumstances as the actor reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.31 or 9.32 in using force or deadly force to protect himself against the unlawful force or unlawful deadly force he reasonably believes to be threatening the third person he seeks to protect; and (2) the actor reasonably believes that his intervention is immediately necessary to protect the third person.
Click to expand...

http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/9.33.00.html
 
Key word being reasonable, though. He's justified to use "force or deadly force" to protect against "unlawful force or unlawful deadly force". I don't think the language allows deadly force to be used against non-deadly unlawful force.
 
Is anybody thinking about the terrible effect that all of this must be having on an already traumatized child?

Not only did she endure a terrifying assault, she also witnessed the equally terrifying act of her father beating a man to death. And now, instead of focusing entirely on helping her to recover, her family must give its attention to her father's pending legal difficulties. He might have spared a thought for whether or not his actions were really helping the one he was trying to defend before he lost control*.

B2p9t.jpg

*If the death was actually the result of an unlucky defensive blow to the wrong part of the man's head, rather than the father getting carried away, then of course I retract this statement.
 
KiplingsCat said:
*If the death was actually the result of an unlucky defensive blow to the wrong part of the man's head, rather than the father getting carried away, then of course I retract this statement.
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Well, let's just hit the r key and see what really happened.
 
"her father's pending legal difficulties"

I very much doubt he'll be charged with anything

Stigmata said:
Key word being reasonable, though. He's justified to use "force or deadly force" to protect against "unlawful force or unlawful deadly force". I don't think the language allows deadly force to be used against non-deadly unlawful force.
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"under the circumstances as the actor reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.31 or 9.32 in using force or deadly force to protect himself against the unlawful force or unlawful deadly force he reasonably believes to be threatening the third person he seeks to protect"

doesnt have to be threat of death but simple "unlawful force". sections 9.32 and 9.31 of the penal code provide for the use of deadly force for sexual assualt:

"to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault"


The father admitted to Lavaca County Sheriff Micah Harmon and a Texas Ranger investigating the case that he beat Flores to death in an effort to protect his child.In court papers, Harmon said evidence found at the scene appeared to substantiate the father's account.

"The man's pants and underwear were down and his genitals were exposed," Harmon said. "In addition, all of the physical evidence and several detailed witness statements corroborated the father's statement."
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all they need is a single parent on that jury

even the District Attorney is on the father's side:

(District Attorney Heather) McMinn said she determined on Friday that the case should be reviewed by a grand jury.
"Sheriff Harmon made the right decision in not arresting the father at the time of the incident," she said.
McMinn said the father was "very remorseful and did not intend to kill Jesus Flores."
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I would do the same thing in that situation.
 
Killing people is really the only solution. I mean, what else can you do? Right?

Together, by eliminating other humans, we can march down the road to justice and safety!

Hip Hip! Hoorah!

Hip Hip! Hoorah!
 
yes because as is clearly the case here the father had murder on his mind the morning of the incident. he was lucky that someone just happened by and tried to rape his 4 year old daughter so that he could then murder him as pedo-killers are known to do. kill a pedo today to save your daughter tommorrow!

they should have "how to kill a pedo and get away with it" courses at the university level. every 5th pedo you kill gets you a free small frogurt
 
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