Formula 1 - K.E.R.S.

[VirusType2]

Formula 1 this year allows teams to retrofit their cars with energy recovery systems that store that power to be used as a sort of nitro shot. A boost that lasts only a few seconds per lap.


However, it adds weight to the car that they have to lug around ever turn and carry onto every straight. Another con is that it can break down, and it sometimes does, costing the driver the race.


The reason I liked it at the beginning of the season was because it promised more opportunities for cars to pass each other, making for a more exciting and unpredictable race.


However it hasn't turned out like that.

Cars with KERS are slower all around, but use the boost to prevent better, faster cars from passing them.

They can use it before the first corner at the start of a race to get out in front of a couple guys and slow them all up. From there, they simply use it to prevent passing.

It's difficult to wrap it all up like that because it plays out differently for every track. But I'm starting to think it should be all cars in the field with it or none. But then again this adds more strategy.


If you can't figure out, I don't blame you. Right now, I don't like it at all.

 

[Dekstar]

I saw that video that was posted that showed what it would be like to have it. It looked awesome, but from what you're saying it does seem to have the opposite effect, just making everything slower and less overtakey.

I'd say give it to all cars.

 

[VirusType2]

By the way, the acronym stands for:

Kinetic Energy Recovery System (KERS)

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

It's not quite true. It doesn't make the cars slower - the cars are all built to be under the weight limit (605Kg with tyres and driver) and then the remainder is made up from ballast. The size and positioning of the KERS system is less then ideal, and causes the cars to often have a higher centre of gravity, and the extra weight leaves less ballast to play around with to correct it, and can therefore lead to undesirable handling characteristics.
On the upside, it tends to give a hefty boost at the start (on circuits with long straights) and some of the cars use it quite successfully to overtake.

However, it hasn't worked out in practice. One team (Ferrari) have horrible reliability with theirs, as it has failed at several races. Another team (BMW) have it installed, but it affects their car's handling drastically and another (Renault) have only used it a few races because it doesn't really give them much benefit. In fact, only one team have particularly used it to their benefit, and that's Mclaren Mercedes, who seem to have built the most compact and efficient KERS unit.

On the other hand, if everyone had a working system that didn't negatively affect the handling, there'd be no point, as the KERS is limited to a maximum input and output (equivalent to about 80bhp) and can only be used for 6.6 seconds per lap. So everyone would use it in the same places, and no advantage would be incurred.

Oh, and provisionally, the rules mandate it for every car next year, but with double the output and duration.

I know far too much about this for it to be healthy.

 

[speedbump]

Yep, KERS seemed like a fan-friendly gimmick before the Brawn Team began flexing its muscle. My initial impression was that it'd also be great for an extra boost when re-entering the race after a pit-stop.

 

[PvtRyan]

On the upside, it tends to give a hefty boost at the start

The talk of the nitro boost gave me a Mario Kart vibe, and this doesn't help either.

What was the key combo for that again?

 

[kupocake]

They should go back to a form of racing where the driver isn't a weight-factor in the car's tech-specs. I mean, Jenson Button is winning races. He's supposed to be the Johnny Herbert of the new millennium.

 

[Hectic Glenn]

How many of the cars have those triple diffusers now? I thought the KERS on the ferrari was the best tweaked, but evidently their cars are well behind at the moment.

Funny that no one is going particularly crazy for Jenson Button, as we fell in love with Lewis, and ditched Jenson back in Honda / BAR days.

 

[xcellerate]

KERS is a stupid idea, they need to remove the rev limiters, give them their old downforce back, run on slicks, and tell all the broke-ass teams that can't afford three-quarters of a billion dollars on development to gtfo. This is supposed to be the pinnacle of racing technology but it's turning into MADNESS!

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

The weight limit is going up to 615Kg for next year, to remove the weight issue.

Glenn: The diffuser isn't a magic car-improving device. Brawn have the best-developed one, but it's their car in general that's doing the business. They wrote off last year at the start in order to have a headstart on this year's, and it's paid dividends.
Also, Button fell out of favour with the press because he spent the last two years at the back of the grid. With 5 out of 6 races won, he's definitely getting back up there - Hamilton only won 5 races all last year!

 

[VirusType2]

I am a huge turbo fan. Well, I'm actually a human, but I ... really like turbos. I suppose they only banned turbos because the cars were dangerously fast or something? They nerfed them!

I'll have to find out. I know there were some reliability issues, but they could have kept developing them. They have much more reliable turbo systems now. The materials and craftsmanship could be more durable and precise, plus the computer systems are vastly improved.

It's not quite true. It doesn't make the cars slower - the cars are all built to be under the weight limit (605Kg with tyres and driver) and then the remainder is made up from ballast.

I'm pretty sure you are right now that I think about it. Please correct me if I make any mistakes (which I will).

The size and positioning of the KERS system is less then ideal, and causes the cars to often have a higher centre of gravity, and the extra weight leaves less ballast to play around with to correct it, and can therefore lead to undesirable handling characteristics.

Indeed; but don't forget, the KERS system gets its power from braking which completely changes the way the brakes behave.
It's similar to the effect a traction control system might have upon deceleration. It makes the car behave differently under braking. (makes it worse)

I think BMW's KERS system gets its power from the flywheel. But I don't even think they have it installed right now. Messing with the flywheel weight or resistance of course affects the ease with which the engine revs up and down, and will affect acceleration and deceleration.

On the other hand, if everyone had a working system that didn't negatively affect the handling, there'd be no point, as the KERS is limited to a maximum input and output (equivalent to about 80bhp) and can only be used for 6.6 seconds per lap. So everyone would use it in the same places, and no advantage would be incurred.

hmm that doesn't sound very exciting. (BRING TURBOS BACK)

They should go back to a form of racing where the driver isn't a weight-factor in the car's tech-specs.

I'm not sure how I feel either way. I know out in the real world, on the streets, weight of the driver (and passengers) is a factor. But this is a sport where they want to keep the cars evenly matched, so maybe you're right.

How many of the cars have those triple diffusers now? I thought the KERS on the ferrari was the best tweaked, but evidently their cars are well behind at the moment.

I thought they were double diffusers, and most, if not all the teams have them now.

Funny that no one is going particularly crazy for Jenson Button, as we fell in love with Lewis, and ditched Jenson back in Honda / BAR days.

While Hamilton is extremely skilled at passing, he's really aggressive on the steering, but I find that JButton is smooth as a surgeon. He almost never wrangles the steering. And as you can see from his results. It's true that the smoother you are on the steering, braking and acceleration, the better the car will perform - the tires will last much longer mainly. But because they won't be losing the back end, there will also be less over and understeer on top of the fact that the tires will still be in better shape.

It's easy to like or hate Hamilton because he is aggressive, button is harder to like because he gets pole and then wins the race, were Hamilton often made things very interesting by coming up through the field. You can always count on that. Hamilton will be overtaking.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Even the Mclaren KERS doesn't use the brakes as such. The motor/generator sits on the back of the engine and acts directly there. It does change the braking characteristics a bit, but it doesn't really adversely affect the car's handling (plus you can fully charge it in a single corner)

The diffusers are a white elephant. Yes, most of the teams have them, and they do provide extra downforce, but all bar 3 of the teams have added them to their existing designs, whereas the original 3 built their cars with the diffuser in mind. Brawn have, so far, the fastest car, but that's because of the overall package, not the diffuser itself.

Hamilton and Button have wonderfully different driving styles. Hamilton's aggressive style is much quicker in short bursts, but then slows down as he inevitably eats his tyres. Button's smooth style isn't quite as ultimately fast, but he can sustain it for longer.
Much as I love Brawn, it'll be kind of nice to see them have some proper competition in races. The second half of this season should be a lot more interesting.

This is all assuming, of course, that F1 doesn't disappear up its own arse, as seems likely at the moment.

 

[VirusType2]

^ spot on

I think the F1 politics has been nearly resolved and all teams are on board. They may have an intermediate year so they lower the budget gradually.

I'm really looking forward to the next race.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

And Prodrive have just announced their entry for 2010, rebadging to Aston Martin in 2012.

 

[VirusType2]

Hadn't heard about that. Are you optimistic of Prodrive or Aston Martin? Think they will be contenders?

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Ultimately, yes. If they hire a good development driver for 2010 to build their car up, they ought to be competitive by 2011. Dave Richards, who heads up Prodrive, used to be responsible for the BAR racing team, who were pretty competitive until Honda bought them out.

 

[VirusType2]

I wonder why Honda failed so hard. I remember about 12 years back they had won the manufacturers title.

Toyota has been struggling too, but they are sticking with it. BMW isn't doing well either. Someone has to be at the back; they can't always win, but like you were saying, it would be interesting to see a higher level of competition.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Toyota are apparently leaving at the end of the year, BMW have been considering leaving. It does tend to come in cycles though.

 

[Evo]

Ooh Prodrive applied? Yay

I always follow Force India (ex Spyker, ex-ex Midland, ex-ex-ex Jordan) and I was impressed with them at Monaco, they seem to have a decent enough car now, just hope they can keep it up for the rest of the season.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Monaco is a good circuit for masking aerodynamic deficiencies. They'll be back at the arse end of the grid for Turkey...

 

[VirusType2]

I'd like to see some Ford engines in F1 again, but that's probably just me. F1 isn't all that popular in the US right now. I blame the Indianapolis raceway. (Indy 500).

Hell, when I was a kid, we called them Indy cars, not Formula 1.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indianapolis#The_Indianapolis_Motor_Speedway

****ing NASCAR

 

[Evo]

Monaco is a good circuit for masking aerodynamic deficiencies. They'll be back at the arse end of the grid for Turkey...

True enough

 

[VirusType2]

Hell, when I was a kid, we called them Indy cars, not Formula 1.

Um.. well

Apparently, Indycar is a separate race, and is not the same as F1. It's a one-off race by NASCAR drivers? Not clear on that.

Anyhow, it seems they held an Indycar race there on (US) Memorial Day weekend. These cars race almost entirely at full throttle for 500 laps around the banked oval.

The Indianapolis Racing website is hosting the highlights as well as some other videos. It's only 12 minutes of highlights, but there are plenty of crashes.

You won't believe your eyes when one of the cars drives along the side wall - backwards, without special effects like in Herbie: Fully Loaded !

watch:
http://www.indy500.com/videos/watch/1651-2009_Indianapolis_500_-_Race_Highlights

 

[DEATHMASTER]

Vroom vrooms?

Spoiler

:thumbs:

Spoiler

:thumbs:

 

[kupocake]

Apparently, Indycar is a separate race, and is not the same as F1. It's a one-off race by NASCAR drivers? Not clear on that.

Indycar is the inevitable 'America-only* slightly modified version' of Formula One. They use similar open-wheeled cars and have a few different rules. It got some very brief exposure in the UK, when in the early 90s, recent champion Nigel Mansell was signed to one of the teams (though I believe the current 'Indycar' split off and reformed with the 90s version). Don't think they show it here anymore.

*Drivers are international, though less european; races are almost exclusively North American.

 

[lePobz]

Lewis should race for Brawn. Go Team England, woo!

 

[jverne]

lol at virus and Pi's group masturbation.





yeah...formula 1 is entertaining...the first 10 minutes. (Pi please don't ban me :angel

 

[VirusType2]

yeah...formula 1 is entertaining...the first 10 minutes.

So were you.

BURN

 

[VirusType2]

Lotus (my favorite manufacturer) may make a return to Formula 1 in 2010!

 

[Baserape>]

Wonderfull! Another mobile chicane.

 

[Raziaar]

HEY GUYS.

I wanted to use your thread here to ask if there are any good PC racing games out there that lots of people play... with many players able to be in each race. Kind of like GTR 2.
:dork:

 

[ChiliFan]

Live for Speed is great. Focuses on physics, pick-up racing etc. All fictional cars and tracks though, and sadly an extremely unfriendly playerbase.

If you're looking for something with average physics and realism but good graphics and real-life cars and tracks, get rFactor.

Or if you want to spend $19 a month for a realistic game with real cars and track and good physics, get iRacing.

And back to the original topic.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

RIP F1 - 1950 - 2009

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8108488.stm

 

[VirusType2]

I find this hilarious and bold, though I'm sure I don't fully understand whats going to happen.

I guess there will be the F1 championship and there will be another Championship. F1 will have all the low budget racing teams, and then there will be an elite Championship series including teams like Ferrari and McLaren.

Huge news.

All I care about is that I get to watch fast cars race and that the rules won't be lame. I'll watch both series if possible.

 

[Evo]

Yeah that ain't going to do anyone any favours really =/