Fortress Forever Update

[DigiQ8]

Fortress Forever just updated their website with new info and screenshots from the beta version.

We've also gotten significant updates to Cornfield, and Aftershock continues to be a programming machine. Currently he is adding a lot of functionality to the HUD that both old and new players will appreciate. Rest assured a lot of action is happening behind the scenes, and we're feeling good for the stretch run.

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[br]Also there is a new video from the beta, you can find it Here

 

[Rapstah]

Too much control over those conc jumps. I liked the rocket jumping though.

 

[hool10]

Great to see they are alive and it looks great! It's just too bad it looks like Quake on steroids though! :hmph: Might be a good thing but you never know.

 

[2c-b]

All the jumping looks rather cool, but at the same time it's fairly intimidating for a TF newb like myself. I like the idea of being able to pull off such insane maneuvers after much practice, but if not being able to do it to begin with puts me at too large of a disadvantage, I think that could somewhat put me off the game.

Admittedly, this game is probably aimed more towards the expert TF players than attracting new people (which is moreso the job for TF2).

 

[sensai]

I'm on the beta testing team, and I must say the feel of the movement system is not as newb unfriendly as you might think. Thankfully, you don't have to get jump timings down...unlike TFC. Also, the hint system being incorporated gives you very useful information in order to learn those more advanced moves.

Also, I know there are supposed to be training maps put into the game, but I don't know how far along in development those are.

 

[Asuka]

Looking fun.

 

[Hectic Glenn]

All the jumping looks rather cool, but at the same time it's fairly intimidating for a TF newb like myself. I like the idea of being able to pull off such insane maneuvers after much practice, but if not being able to do it to begin with puts me at too large of a disadvantage, I think that could somewhat put me off the game.

Admittedly, this game is probably aimed more towards the expert TF players than attracting new people (which is moreso the job for TF2).

I agree very much so. It looks very good though, the team has obviously done a great job putting together a 'finished product' almost. The gibbing is a nice touch too. Although the fact it's aimed towards an expert it's probably it's unique feature, which is needs to set it apart from TF2. It will reduce it's audience, but give the mod it's own niche & community despite that. Some people can't let go!

 

[Pad See Ew]

Is it just me or is Dustbowl the only map in FF that is Source quality? The others look straight out of TFC's brushwork style.

So just about everyone can fly now, I guess?

 

[FrenchToast]

I think it's just you. Dustbowl is indeed quite beautiful, but other maps such as SD2 and CZ2 are definitely up to Source standards. Maybe you need to play the game to see them the right way, but FF has some of the best mapping I've seen in Source.

Keep in mind as well, that Source mapping has become very prop-oriented due to the physics system of HL2. A TF game however, has very little to no use of props, so there is a challenge in making a stellar map using only brushwork.

 

[CyberPitz]

Looking good, but if they don't hurry up, they might get stuck under TF2's boot!

 

[arsenalfc]

So just about everyone can fly now, I guess?

please, don't be stupid sarcastic. everything seen on the video there can be done in tfc with the exception of the pyro flamethrower skimming and the double jumping. movement is an integral part of fortress games. maps and communities were created (at least in tfc) that centered around movement and trick jumping (rocketjumps, conc jumps, pipe jumps etc) alone.

 

[Epsi]

Urgh. That video reminds me why I'm looking forward to TF2 and not FF.

 

[theotherguy]

please, don't be stupid sarcastic. everything seen on the video there can be done in tfc with the exception of the pyro flamethrower skimming and the double jumping. movement is an integral part of fortress games. maps and communities were created (at least in tfc) that centered around movement and trick jumping (rocketjumps, conc jumps, pipe jumps etc) alone.

Which is complete and utter shit. Its retarted. All the stupid jumping shit is the reason why I quit playing Tfc and HLDM. It completley ruins the game. I don't care if you think its an integral part of the gameplay, because in my opinion, it absolutley shouldn't be.

 

[comoxer]

Having only dabbled with TFC im not much of a fan, but should you really be able control your movement in the air to that extent? seems a bit ott.

 

[mrmojo]

if you dont want movement and jumping, go play day of defeat

 

[ZoFreX]

This looks really great, as always! I think TF2 will be more my style to be honest, but I'll definitely give this a whirl when it's out

 

[Beastmonkey2]

I guarantee that when this mod comes out, the server owners will tweak the airspeed settings and stuff to make it more realistic. The way they have it now would NOT be fun to play against people like that. You would be ripping your hair out, trust me.

 

[Docm30]

Which is complete and utter shit. Its retarted. All the stupid jumping shit is the reason why I quit playing Tfc and HLDM. It completley ruins the game. I don't care if you think its an integral part of the gameplay, because in my opinion, it absolutley shouldn't be.

That's why your opinion doesn't matter; jumping tricks make for great fun in TFC, once you get the hang of them. And it really wouldn't be the same without them.

FF is looking pretty good, although not as good as TF2.

 

[ríomhaire]

That's why your opinion doesn't matter; jumping tricks make for great fun in TFC, once you get the hang of them. And it really wouldn't be the same without them.

What is one man's fun is another's torture. Don't tell him what he should find fun. Movement exploits annoy me too.

 

[comoxer]

That's why your opinion doesn't matter; jumping tricks make for great fun in TFC, once you get the hang of them. And it really wouldn't be the same without them.

FF is looking pretty good, although not as good as TF2.

Yea the jumping tricks can be fun to a certain degree but from that video the amount of freedom you have whilst in the air is insane, you might as well have noclip enabled.

 

[mrmojo]

What is one man's fun is another's torture. Don't tell him what he should find fun. Movement exploits annoy me too.

how is it an exploit if the game is built specifically for this kind of movement

trust me, it's not crazy or unbalanced at all, and fortress forever is making bunnyhopping, concing, trimping and double jumping a lot easier to do

 

[Dodo]

it looks like sv_gravity 50 on crack : /

-dodo

 

[ríomhaire]

how is it an exploit if the game is built specifically for this kind of movement

True, but I still dislike the whole super-jump thing in most forms.

 

[DelaZ]

The art and mapping looks cool... I'm not a big fan of the gameplay though! But I'm sure I'll be downloading it when it's released.

Keep up the good work!

 

[Lucid]

In all of my years of playing TFC, I have never seen any of the insane shit that was just shown in that video.

The most I've seen is rocket jumping, and the occasional conc.

 

[FatboyTim]

As a TFC vet, I was looking forward to playing this mod. Having seen that video though, I can see well why Valve have chosen ro avoid b/hopping and concs in TF2. The level of air acceleration demostrated here is frankly retarded and I'll be staying well clear, if this is how it is going to end up. :x

As comoxer already mentioned, you might as well just enable noclip.

 

[Beastmonkey2]

I'll start with the positive. Art direction is good, I like the maps a lot, and the classes look awesome. I'm sure it's taken a lot of time and effort to make this mod for free to the masses.

Now for the negative. Like others were saying, the air control and the jumping is absolutley rediculous. I kind of wonder if the developers of this mod have even played TFC or any games at all. If they don't tweak the settings down, then people will go nuts trying to kill these people with that much air control. Also they need to get a new person to do their preview videos, they honestly suck.

 

[jxf11]

I registered just to post on this thread ...

I've played TFC a lot, both recently and the original years ago. I have never been able to rocket or nade jump in play and have always tended to play defense. That being said, jumping seems to be not very "team" related. It doesn't matter about your class's particular skills, just grab the flag and jump on an exploding nade towards the cap point. Bleh!

I don't want CS realism but jumping wrecks the game, as do nades in general. I really like Valve's limiting nades to the demoman. I hope they don't let the soldier jump like the FF video - it's nuts. I don't want a jumping game, I like team play with the abilities of the classes complimenting the others.

E.g. in Dustbowl on defense at the offense's gate with 4 engies banging on guns, 2 snipers way in the back, and fattys/soldiers/pyros tagging any attacking spys who pop out. Of course, TFC/dustbowl by the end of the round is a mess with nades rolling into the cap point like an avalanche.

Anywho, I'm very thankful for FF - it's free and hopefully admins can tweak the jumping/flying a la Superman down to balance the play. I thought the video was cool for a free/mod effort.

 

[Circuitous]

Take it easy, guys.

What you've seen here is an over-the-top show-off video.

The tricks in this video are not easy, standard, or even remotely commonplace.

Very rarely will you ever need to pull off the tricks shown here to compete in the game. These are the stuff of legend, the things that make everyone do a double-take. The things that make one hell of a promo video.

The air control demonstrated here is not nearly as forgiving as any of you believe. What looks effortless is the product of several hours of trial and error, and sometimes just dumb luck.

Team Fortress will still be about what it always has been - running, gunning, and completing the objective. In a serious game, you may see concjumps into a rampslide to get past a defender, but it's not necessary, trust me. You'll be able to get by in other ways - there's always another way.

I hope that all of you who are worried about the level of speed and control in this game will still give it a shot. I did some of the tricks in the video, and I still think it's crazy - normal gameplay is honestly nothing like this, I assure you.

Heh, there's some good news in this, though... a lot of those clips were performed by people who came into FF with rudimentary TFC skills. Most of them couldn't bunnyhop (I had only recently gotten into it before being brought into the testing team), let alone juggle concussion grenades or rampslide.

Fortress Forever really makes these skills attainable, through in-game hints, tutorials, demos... you'll never find yourself lacking information on new tricks and possibilities.

So, please... when FF is (finally) released, give us a shot. I think you'll like it.

Edit: Oh, and air control/etc. won't be server-controlled.

 

[trepid_jon]

All that jumping doesn't make anybody invincible. A good rocket, grenade, bullet, or whatever can easily end their happy jumping times. In fact, that's a whole lot of the fun with Team Fortress. Some guy thinks he can get past you by jumping around, but you just put a rocket in their face. If you can't take them out alone, maybe an engineer's sentry will kill them or at least slow them down for you to then take care of them. Or maybe a demoman's pipe trap gets them when your rockets miss. It's a team game, so you're better off defending against the crazy moving players by having more than one person defend.

This video was mainly made as a "skills" video to show some of the cool maneuvers you can pull off in FF, because we were yet to really show any of that stuff even though people have been asking for it. Pulling those moves off in normal combat is much more difficult than in a fairly empty map just for a video. It's not easy to conc jump and trimp up the ramp in shutdown2 if a soldier, sentry gun, and maybe more are waiting for you with death.

Since the scout is so weak, good movement is why he's so useful in combat. It's better to avoid fighting as a scout in TFC/FF, because you'll most likely die. Jumping and juking past defenders to get the flag is how a lot of people have fun in TFC and will hopefully continue to have fun in FF.

But more importantly, to everyone comparing TFC's movement to FF's movement...FF's movement is almost identical to TFC's movement...

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q="team+fortress+classic"+skills&so=4

 

[mrmojo]

yeah seriously, people who say they haven't seen it simply havent played in clans, pugs or on the right servers

and chances are, you wont see this kind of thing in FF either, if you play on those servers

 

[arsenalfc]

yeah, it's one thing for people completely alien to the fortress games to be complaining/concerned about the movement shown here, but it baffles me as to how people could have played tfc for many years and not picked up key skills such as handheld concing, rocketjumping, and strafe jumping at the very least. i imagine the numerous servers filled with the supposed "mature" crowd that severely restrict air acceleration, weapon jumping and basically all other skill related maneuvers have had a part to play in this.

i repeat: everything that i saw in that fortress forever video is possible in tfc, and quake1 teamfortress was even quicker than tfc.

as i understand it, the dev team is making all possible effort to ensure that newer players have the help required to learn these movement techniques.

there are literally 100s of online multiplayer games that are clones of counterstrike or battlefield, ie: slow tactical based shooters. take your pick if you can't handle a quicker paced game.

 

[COALslaw]

In all of my years of playing TFC, I have never seen any of the insane shit that was just shown in that video.

The most I've seen is rocket jumping, and the occasional conc.

Many years of playing TFC and you've seen the 'occasional conc'? If you don't see one going ten times a match your either playing with morons or bots.

Regardless, who was expecting them to be able to get it perfectly in-sync with TFC? I sure as hell wasn't, so this isn't that surprising. To be perfectly honest I'm impressed they could get it as close as they did.

 

[Absinthe]

Repost:

This video dashed some of my hopes.

Naturally, I will await an actual release for my final judgment, but I could actually feel myself getting annoyed while watching it.

I don't have a problem with the conc-jumping. It's the air movement. No offense to the developers or fans, but it's just... stupid. These people are practically making right-angle turns in midair. I know this isn't supposed to be a realistic game, but it just looks horrid from a gameplay standpoint. After seeing the speed and mobility of those jumps, I don't see how anybody could think this was a good idea. Players are launching themselves across half of the map in a blink of the eye, able to avoid entire firefights and enemies.

I always saw conc-jumping as something of an inaccurate burst. Once it goes off, you have no choice but to land wherever it takes you, and so one had to understand and maybe have a little planning into his jumps. So you could certainly reach distant areas quickly, but you didn't have the precision of ****ing Luke Skywalker launching torpedoes down the Death Star. The amount of midair control displayed in this video is way too much. I saw a player come out of a doorway, launch himself, and then do close to a 180 degree turn, landing himself on ground two floors above. It's at the 0:53 mark, and it makes me cringe.

Keep the conc-jumping. Maybe reduce its speed/power a bit, but you can do what you wish. But the amount of movement one's capable of in the air needs to be reduced drastically, if not just removed outright. None of the alleged "counter-balances" I'm reading from supporters here sound convincing, or even frequently applicable. What use is the demo man if you're jumping well clear to safety over his traps? How often are you going to be blasting medics out of the air with your rocket launcher if they're this mobile? Could any sniper with sub-godlike abilities possibly land a shot on him? Remember, it's not the speed. It's the ridiculous amount of zig-zagging while launched into the sky. This feels like it belongs in a completely different kind of game.

Yeah, it's TF. And movement is important. But don't try and tell me that this was possible in TFC. I've played that quite a bit, and no. It most certainly was not. I never saw people flying around corners with such precision. Still, I will be downloading it come release time. Most of everything else I've seen for this mod looks promising. In the meantime, I just have to hope it won't play like Tribes Fortress. It's cool that all you guys say it works perfectly... or whatever. Unfortunately, simply saying "trust me" isn't too convincing.

 

[mrmojo]

you need to learn tfc dude, concs have always been about skill and precision. you can do anything related to concs in the video in tfc. all this stuff is in tfc, and it didnt unbalance the game. once youre inside the enemy base, you cant just conc across to the flag, and it takes a lot of skill to get the flag past defenders

oh and the 180, i uploaded this (crappy) video showing me doing basically the same thing in tfc http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5742297161357942650&q=tfc+180

 

[arsenalfc]

Absinthe,

I assure you that the air control and concs displayed in that video are possible in tfc. I've played off and on since early 1999 and the first time I saw a medic conc jump out of the water on 2fort I was amazed. 8 years later I can now probably do a double u-turn in midair while concing (and I haven't played in months!).

Once you get air control it's so fluid and fun to incorporate it into your gameplay and combat I can't envision going back to non dynamic gameplay. Also at the highest level of tfc games are played 9v9 or 8v8 and defences do just fine with a mix of soldiers, demomen, engineers and heavy weapons guys. People get airshots on flying medics with rockets quite often, and good snipers have a field day with conc jumpers.

There are many tfc videos that demonstrate what I've said above, I'd be happy to link you to them.

edit: another quick note - i don't think some people realize that by default on most maps medics only start with 2 concussion grenades. so if they use one to jump over to the enemy base they only have one left. that means they either use it to get to the flag or use it to get out. in either case they will not be flying over the whole defense. scouts start with 3 but they are so weak that after taking fall damage from their conc jumps they die in a couple of shotgun hits or 1 rocket.

 

[Circuitous]

Keep the conc-jumping. Maybe reduce its speed/power a bit, but you can do what you wish. But the amount of movement one's capable of in the air needs to be reduced drastically, if not just removed outright. None of the alleged "counter-balances" I'm reading from supporters here sound convincing, or even frequently applicable. What use is the demo man if you're jumping well clear to safety over his traps? How often are you going to be blasting medics out of the air with your rocket launcher if they're this mobile? Could any sniper with sub-godlike abilities possibly land a shot on him? Remember, it's not the speed. It's the ridiculous amount of zig-zagging while launched into the sky. This feels like it belongs in a completely different kind of game.

Yeah, it's TF. And movement is important. But don't try and tell me that this was possible in TFC. I've played that quite a bit, and no. It most certainly was not. I never saw people flying around corners with such precision. Still, I will be downloading it come release time. Most of everything else I've seen for this mod looks promising. In the meantime, I just have to hope it won't play like Tribes Fortress. It's cool that all you guys say it works perfectly... or whatever. Unfortunately, simply saying "trust me" isn't too convincing.

You never saw it != it never happened. I've done it myself quite a lot.

Anyway... your concerns for the movement are valid, I agree. And if, in fact, every map was designed to be nothing but wide open areas where a player could conc to ever part of it, I'd even agree with you.

What this video doesn't show is a common aspect of Team Fortress mapping - once you're in the base, things get a LOT tighter.

Here, where the hallways are small and the ceilings are lower, is where the demoman sets a pipe trap. Not in the yard, where it is easily ignored, but where the offense has no choice but to try and pass, and wasting a conc here isn't a smart choice.

It's in these hallways that the Soldier can send a rocket to a Scout's face, while all the Scout can do is strafe and pray.

It's here where the combat happens. Where aerial acrobatics are no longer much of a factor.

Honestly... you're worrying about nothing.

We'll make a video showing regular gameplay. Stay tuned.

 

[Lucid]

You never saw it != it never happened. I've done it myself quite a lot.

Anyway... your concerns for the movement are valid, I agree. And if, in fact, every map was designed to be nothing but wide open areas where a player could conc to ever part of it, I'd even agree with you.

What this video doesn't show is a common aspect of Team Fortress mapping - once you're in the base, things get a LOT tighter.

Here, where the hallways are small and the ceilings are lower, is where the demoman sets a pipe trap. Not in the yard, where it is easily ignored, but where the offense has no choice but to try and pass, and wasting a conc here isn't a smart choice.

It's in these hallways that the Soldier can send a rocket to a Scout's face, while all the Scout can do is strafe and pray.

It's here where the combat happens. Where aerial acrobatics are no longer much of a factor.

Honestly... you're worrying about nothing.

We'll make a video showing regular gameplay. Stay tuned.

That's reassuring... I just really hope that the mod doesn't rely on aerial acrobatics to get the objectives done.

 

[Sathernut]

Dude you obviously have no idea what your talking about. Have you ever played a good TFC clan match? Or jeez just any pub server?

 

[Space Farm]

In all of my years of playing TFC, I have never seen any of the insane shit that was just shown in that video.

The most I've seen is rocket jumping, and the occasional conc.

Something tells me you haven't played much...My favourite trick is concing as a spy doing a 180 and landing on an enemies back and gibbing them with my knife, all in one swift move...that stuff happens all the time on good servers. :smoking: