FPS standard

[hentai]

How should every FPS look?

1.When you walk you slightly bob just like in Unreal 2, not stupidly glide like you are on a track.

2.Weapons are not fixed to the screen so when you shift your view the weapon doesn't move at all, this is all rectified in Half Life 2, also when your view goes up you realistically see more of your hands, again rectified in Half Life 2.

3.RPG elements, character/skill development like in Deus Ex, System Shock, Boiling Point, Oblivion.

4.Versatile character- wide range of possible actions/movements like in Riddick:Escape from the Buther Bay but in regard to number 3.

5.Open level structure, non-linear usage of weapons and vehicles like in Halo or Farcry, but primarily Halo(notice how very linear Half Life 2 is in this aspect). Non-linear usage of vehicles and open level structure in Halo is still not surpassed.

6.Implementation of physics, the easiest way to make a game non linear is to implement as much physics as you can. Idealy when you max out on physics the game itself is by default already non-linear.

7.using the ladders like in F.E.A.R., using use button and seeing your body.

 

[Beerdude26]

And your point is? D:

And Halo's linearity made baby jesus cry.

 

[AJ Rimmer]

And your point is? D:

And Halo's linearity made baby jesus cry.

That and the level design in general. Oy oy oy...

 

[Hazar]

uniquness is good

 

[hentai]

7.using the ladders like in F.E.A.R., using use button and seeing your body.

I don't understand your Halo criticism, it's the most non-linear FPS out there after Deus Ex and Farcry, just recall one instance where you can even avoid combat alltogether by killing enemy who is going for the Banshee. These kind of situations happen all the time. Halo is immensly non-linear in comparisan with HL2. Not to mention you can have stealth/melee combat as supossed to HL2. In HL2, it's always the same linearity, combat trigger sequence, vehicle time etc.

If you are refering to level design two things to remember:

1.it's a an installation that like any other installation is supposed to look uniformly. And there are no alien kids to write graphity on the walls.

2.You are going back the same way you came in.

btw non-linear means that it can be UNIQUE EVERY TIME YOU PLAY IT, and so far Halo is closest to it.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

sorry about them hentai, most of the people here are Halo haters. I for one agree with you on it being non-linear (by the definition there).

 

[AJ Rimmer]

If you are refering to level design two things to remember:

1.it's a an installation that like any other installation is supposed to look uniformly. And there are no alien kids to write graphity on the walls.

2.You are going back the same way you came in.

I do not care, it is boring! Endless corridors that look exactly alike are not something good. And it's not something that *only* happens when you have to backtrack through a building, in which case I could sympathise.

EDIT* I actually kinda like Halo, I think it's got a good story, good AI and it's got a cool atmosphere that I enjoy, but the gameplay doesn't entertain me for very long, I've only managed to finish it twice. The books are awesome though, and the outdoor levels in the game are awesome.

 

[Beerdude26]

and so far Halo is closest to it.

Wow that is the biggest load of bs I've ever heard, no offence :|

 

[kupocake]

1.When you walk you slightly bob just like in Unreal 2, not stupidly glide like you are on a track.

John Dalton walks like he has a medium sized pig in his anus. No thank you.

3.RPG elements, character/skill development like in Deus Ex, System Shock, Boiling Point, Oblivion.
4.Versatile character- wide range of possible actions/movements like in Riddick:Escape from the Buther Bay but in regard to number 3.

These are great in their respective games, but I think they should be kept away from the "FPS Standard".

5.Open level structure, non-linear usage of weapons and vehicles like in Halo or Farcry [...] Non-linear usage of vehicles and open level structure in Halo is still not surpassed.

This sounds in no way like the Halo I played.

7.using the ladders like in F.E.A.R., using use button and seeing your body.

Why on earth? It's so much easier just to walk into a ladder and move up it. Far more fluid, less faffing about and you don't have the unrealism of having to be looking at it when you climb it.

btw non-linear means that it can be UNIQUE EVERY TIME YOU PLAY IT, and so far Halo is closest to it.

No it doesn't. It means that you can approach a situation from different directions, with different methods, or find alternative routes with different obstacles. Deus Ex does this with several ways into the Liberty statue for instance. Halo and Half-Life play in effect as one big corridor

1.it's a an installation that like any other installation is supposed to look uniformly. And there are no alien kids to write graphity on the walls.

 

[DESSTROYER]

lol @ controller size

 

[diluted]

So basically every game should be the same? That's kind of boring.

 

[Baratos]

This sounds in no way like the Halo I played.

Really? Remember the Halo level, which had four different ending cutscenes? And of course Silent Cartographer, where every point on the island can be explored. Those are the two most open-ended levels I can think of. For HL2 I believe Water Hazard and Sandtraps are the most open ended, even though both mainly consist of one main course with side attractions. The part of Sandtraps just before the Myrmidont, however, deserves special praise as a giant nonlinear puzzle.

 

[esplin]

Remember the Library? I do

 

[ríomhaire]

You seem to be confusing non-linear with open spaces. There is still only one way to progress through Silent Cartographer, nomater how open the map.

 

[Asknoone]

Skills, level ups, non-linear use of weapons and open level design should not, in any way shape or form, be the FPS standard. Infact, a lot of your list should be ushered away from ‘FPS standard’ as soon as humanely possible.

btw non-linear means that it can be UNIQUE EVERY TIME YOU PLAY IT, and so far Halo is closest to it.

You live in a land where pig’s fly and dolphins ride cocaine-addled horses. Also known as: not Earth.

 

[Darkangel]

Really? Remember the Halo level, which had four different ending cutscenes? And of course Silent Cartographer, where every point on the island can be explored. Those are the two most open-ended levels I can think of. For HL2 I believe Water Hazard and Sandtraps are the most open ended, even though both mainly consist of one main course with side attractions. The part of Sandtraps just before the Myrmidont, however, deserves special praise as a giant nonlinear puzzle.

You haven't played far cry have you?

 

[63]

Halo 2 is the best game ever.

 

[Beerdude26]

I just papped 6Three beyond belief.

 

[Darkangel]

Halo 2 is the best game ever.

I used to be a noob too

 

[kupocake]

Really? Remember the Halo level, which had four different ending cutscenes?

As a matter of fact, no I cannot, and I cannot find anything written about it in FAQs or walkthroughs. I've played the game through twice, maybe three times. Whilst not a comprehensive experience of the game by any means, I think that's enough to be able to judge it fairly. I wouldn't have played a bad game that many times for sure. Still, slight differences in one triggered cutscene don't qualify non-linearity, presuming that those differences actually exist

 

[hentai]

Wow that is the biggest load of bs I've ever heard, no offence :|

I'm just stating observable facts.

Like this one for example:

Non-linear usage of vehicles and open level structure in Halo is still not surpassed.

I played every FPS that exists so I know what I'm talking about.

And of course I didn't mix Deus Ex type with Halo or put it in the same genre.
I'm just saying that natural evolution of FPS and FPS RPG is convergence into FPRPG, with more or less open ended gameplay or linearity of certain aspects.

btw, I hate it when in majority of the FPSes you just frictionlessly glide.
Slight bobing like while you walk/run in Unreal 2 or Painkiller is far more better.

Also Unreal 2 has the best SF atmosphere and diversity of missions, when you are on your ship preparing for missions and interacting with your mates, then fly down it's just forcing you to see how someday we will have ultimate FPRPG where you will have much more options, control and RPG aspect like Precursors seems to have.

 

[Baratos]

You haven't played far cry have you?

I was talking about the two most open-ended levels of the game Halo, as they compared to the two most open-ended levels of HL2 I could think of.

As a matter of fact, no I cannot, and I cannot find anything written about it in FAQs or walkthroughs. I've played the game through twice, maybe three times. Whilst not a comprehensive experience of the game by any means, I think that's enough to be able to judge it fairly. I wouldn't have played a bad game that many times for sure. Still, slight differences in one triggered cutscene don't qualify non-linearity, presuming that those differences actually exist

Right here are the cutscenes I was talking about. Its a bit down the page, and note that there are only 3 instead of the 4 I thought there were. The main reason I mentioned this was that unlike the levels of HL2, which have a distinct beginning and end point, this level has a beginning, a coherent middle, and then splits off into three ways of tackling the end area. I would say my biggest gripe with Halo is that instead of doing this for most levels, Bungie decided to create levels like the Library.

 

[hentai]

And your point is? D:

And Halo's linearity made baby jesus cry.

For your information jesus didn't exist, that pagan concept was taken from egyptian mithology, they had the god by the name Horus, who also had a virgin for a mother, 12 apostols, who also died and resurrected, who also raised El-Azarus(El-Oziris) from the dead, who is trinity-he is the son of Oziris and Oziris itself and so on...more info here

 

[Qhartb]

For your information jesus didn't exist, that pagan concept was taken from egyptian mithology, they had the god by the name Horus, who also had a virgin for a mother, 12 apostols, who also died and resurrected, who also raised El-Azarus(El-Oziris) from the dead, who is trinity-he is the son of Oziris and Oziris itself and so on...more info here

Way off topic and in no way worth bringing into this conversation.

 

[63]

This thread is awesome!

 

[MorganFreeman911]

I agree with 63

 

[kupocake]

Right here are the cutscenes I was talking about. Its a bit down the page, and note that there are only 3 instead of the 4 I thought there were. The main reason I mentioned this was that unlike the levels of HL2, which have a distinct beginning and end point, this level has a beginning, a coherent middle, and then splits off into three ways of tackling the end area.

Oh right. Yes, the first level on Halo is non-linear, though in the end it's for nought (Whilst it's not on par with something like Deus Ex where Paul Denton can live and die depending on your actions, but it is a nice bit of freeformness.)

I would say my biggest gripe with Halo is that instead of doing this for most levels, Bungie decided to create levels like the Library.

I don't suspect that it's Bungie's fault. Microsoft rushed Halo through development and used PR to patch over the game's inadequacies. The copy and paste approach to level design that Halo displays is the fault of this: early media gave the impression that Halo would be more like what they had time to implement in the "Halo" chapter.

Personally, aside from the repetition in Halo, what I'd really have loved to see was far less jumping around. I really love FPS games that stick you in the shoes of the character, and invest enough design time in showing you the bits in between. How the player goes through the diverse locations encountered in the game, not simply by copping out and having them hitch a ride or teleport, but by walking, or driving through them. Half-Life is the most famous example, but it's kind of been in there since Doom and Quake in some sense, and was particuarly memorable in Unreal 1 IMO. The problem I find with Halo (and Unreal 2 incidentally) is the way that there is so little continuity, and they just rip out all the locational cliches one after another (it's not a million miles away from a sonic the hedgehog game when you think about it). What I loved about Unreal 1 was the way that you walked from the spaceship, to the village, to the mines, to the temple, to the village on the other side and on and on. Damn it was a long game, and i'd be lying if I didn't bore me half to death due to the uninteresting weapons and enemies, but it was a neat piece of first person immersion. THAT should be a rule for the FPS standard to take note of.

 

[Dr. Zoidberg]

For your information jesus didn't exist, that pagan concept was taken from egyptian mithology, they had the god by the name Horus, who also had a virgin for a mother, 12 apostols, who also died and resurrected, who also raised El-Azarus(El-Oziris) from the dead, who is trinity-he is the son of Oziris and Oziris itself and so on...more info here

Bahahahah!
Thats original. Man I love these new age conspiracy theorys. "Oh Davinci new that Jesus was married" "The US goverment was behind 911".

Anyway back to the topic, why are people saying Halo is non-linear? It was extremely linear, sure some levels you could drive around in parts that didnt matter, but in the end you were always going down one path to destination.

 

[hentai]

Bahahahah!
Thats original. Man I love these new age conspiracy theorys. "Oh Davinci new that Jesus was married" "The US goverment was behind 911".

It's not a conspiracy, just demistification of institucionalized superstition based on archeological facts.

Anyway back to the topic, why are people saying Halo is non-linear? It was extremely linear, sure some levels you could drive around in parts that didnt matter, but in the end you were always going down one path to destination.

Because it's pretty obvious that it has the most non-linear combat of all FPS-es, this is the third time I'm repeating that distinction. Maybe you should try to read and then think about what you have read.

 

[63]

Because it's pretty obvious that it has the most non-linear combat of all FPS-es, this is the third time I'm repeating that distinction. Maybe you should try to read and then think about what you have read.

Um, ok? Who are you again? I strongly doubt anyone actually cares what you think, and repeating yourself isn't going to change that fact. Halo was linear for the most part, but so was Half-Life 2, in my opinion. Get used to it. We don't all share in your uninformed biases.

 

[bigburpco]

Can I be nasty?

HAHA NOBODY CARES WHAT YOU THINK!

... sorry.

 

[Jintor]

Because it's pretty obvious that it has the most non-linear combat of all FPS-es, this is the third time I'm repeating that distinction. Maybe you should try to read and then think about what you have read.

If "most non-linear combat" translates as "pour fire into enemies while circle-strafing" then yes, Halo does have non-linear combat.

Actually, this might apply to HL2 as well. *shrugs*

 

[Asknoone]

Because it's pretty obvious that it has the most non-linear combat of all FPS-es, this is the third time I'm repeating that distinction. Maybe you should try to read and then think about what you have read.

But nobody cares. The stuff you posted shouldn't be FPS standard. It is about gameplay, and what is fun. I couldn't give a rat’s ass about how strict the path through the game is. I couldn't give a rat’s ass if my character glides. It is about fun. The stuff you posted is simply opinionated tosh for the most part.
Half-life 2 was a linear game, but it was amazingly well done game. It was fun, it was exciting, the level design was fantastic and the gameplay was nailed to a tea. I never once found myself thinking “Oh man, wish it had Halo’s weapon select thing where you can only pick up two!”.

That works in Halo. It isn’t going to work in everything else. To say it will is folly. And this is where your argument goes flailing out the window with a rocket booster pack strapped to it's back.

 

[Jintor]

Not enough games have rocket booster packs strapped to your back. Ah, Tribes... how I sing your praises...

 

[Higlac]

halo2's story sucked ass halo2 multiplayer is all i play it for
halo's story didnt suck as much ass as its sequel, but its still pretty bad, it was fun for me, but its still worse than hl2

and btw hentai this is a game discussion forum not an insult-every-christian forum

 

[Baratos]

halo2's story sucked ass halo2 multiplayer is all i play it for
halo's story didnt suck as much ass as its sequel, but its still pretty bad, it was fun for me, but its still worse than hl2

Why, exactly? I found H2 to have a better story because you got a much better idea of what the Covenant and Flood culture is like. H1 was just some guy in a suit shooting aliens and space zombies. If anything, the H2 story only was lacking in that I was unable to kill any humans.

And what precisely makes it inferior to the Half-life story? The fact that the story is in a series of books rather than the game? The fact that you actually know what the enemy is trying to do?

 

[ríomhaire]

Non-linear does not mean you can chose to attack the enemy from this angle or from this angle, it means you can take different paths to different means, not slightly different ways to a combat areana with the same end result. In Deus Ex you can affect key events in the game by your actions and go through each level in a number of different ways. It is possible to finish the game and only kill 1 person. In Halo you get to chose between 3 different vehicles or guns to kill your enemies.

 

[hentai]

But nobody cares. The stuff you posted shouldn't be FPS standard. It is about gameplay, and what is fun. I couldn't give a rat’s ass about how strict the path through the game is. I couldn't give a rat’s ass if my character glides. It is about fun. The stuff you posted is simply opinionated tosh for the most part.

Well, it is pretty dumb of you to mix acquiescence to lower standards just because they work so then you can give it a "rat's ass about it". And why stupidly mix fun with it like if the standards are higher/better you would in some bizarre way lose the fun. Please learn to think...

Half-life 2 was a linear game, but it was amazingly well done game. It was fun, There you go it was exciting, the level design was fantastic and the gameplay was nailed to a tea.

Yes, HL2 was linear and amazingly well done game, why are you saying something like someone else stated the opposite?

I never once found myself thinking “Oh man, wish it had Halo’s weapon select thing where you can only pick up two!”.

Well it's pretty stupid to have all those weapons in HL2 or in other games like you have some magical floating invisible trunk following you around. And system in Halo is perfect that way, it forces you to think which weapon is best suited to you or you can always go back thanks to the open level structure.

That works in Halo. It isn’t going to work in everything else. To say it will is folly. And this is where your argument goes flailing out the window with a rocket booster pack strapped to it's back.

There you go again with your illogical thinking that produces irrelevant and not pertinent statements to anything anyone else said..I mentioned Halo in what context?

 

[hentai]

Non-linear does not mean you can chose to attack the enemy from this angle or from this angle, it means you can take different paths to different means, not slightly different ways to a combat areana with the same end result. In Deus Ex you can affect key events in the game by your actions and go through each level in a number of different ways. It is possible to finish the game and only kill 1 person. In Halo you get to chose between 3 different vehicles or guns to kill your enemies.

OMG, the usage of linear and non-linear terms can be implemented to different aspects, did you drop out of school?!

Elaboration of non-linear combat:

for example in HL2 you can't avoid fighting, you have strict triggers and sequences, in Halo you can, as I already gave one of many examples-killing enemy before he takes the banshee, than you take it an avoid 30 min of combat-that is non-linear.

in HL2 you always have one way to combat enemis, like striders for example-everything is very rigidly set that way to the last detail.

in HL2 there is something I call "vehicle time", I hope comparing with Halo where you can actually enter buildings with vehicles is not necessary.

 

[Asknoone]

I’m not up for a quote war. Basically, you stated at the beginning of the thread (titled: FPS Standard), and I quote “Halo weapon system. Tactical thinking. Cool cup cakes.” Unquote. And I replied by saying “Folly! It works in Halo because Halo is designed that way.” See, Halo combat is Halo combat and it forces you to think tactically because that is what the game is all about.

Half-life 2 is not all about that, and such a system would not work unless the game was designed around it – yet it does not need to be.
As for carrying all your weapons around, well, it’s a game. I don’t really give a toss either way. Gordon can have them all crammed up his ass, stuck down his throat or has the magic box strapped to his leg. Or maybe he pulls them out of some tear in space that follows wherever his glide like footsteps take him.

I’m all about fun, and it shouldn’t be sacrificed for realism. Never, ever, ever. Never.

Certain things work in different games, they are all designed differently. The only ‘FPS Standard’ developers should stand by is “Guns. Fun. Enemies. Fun. Good story. Fun. Gameplay. Fun” And develop from there. Weapon limitations aren’t necessary in some shooters and shouldn’t be applied. Bobbing up and down is a completely and utterly pointless point to make, given it affects the gameplay in – oh, wait, it doesn’t. And what about ladders? Who cares, it’s silly, and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t.

None of these things should be standard.