france = RACIST? - I hope not but it doesn't look good

[Operation Ivy]

we can make fun of each other all we want, but in the end we'll still be allies

 

[CptStern]

I'd hardly consider a site whose tag-line is "Breaking News and Views for the Progressive Community" as an objective source. The second you say your news is tailored to a specific community it ceases to be objective.

Further more, the article you suggested is an editorial piece written by someone who clearly already has an opinion on Bush, and is only in the market of conveying that opinion (as is the nature of the editorial.)

For now however, I will dispense with my objections to your source, and pretend that it is an objective story. Let's take then the only fact one can derive from the entire editorial, that being that the author purports (without giving a contextual quote I might add) that Bush used the word 'Paki' to refer to Pakistani allies. Her source isn't given, and the actual quote isn't given.

Does then the alleged "fact" that bush called his Pakistani allies Paki's give credence to the hyperbolic assertion that bush is "Moronically Intollerant"?

Well let's investigate that for a minute:

My comcast digital cable provides me with the International Channel. I enjoy this alot, and watch it from time to time. The author of this article might be shocked to find out that Paki isn't a racial slur.

If it is, then British newscasters are the most vile racists, as they throw the term around frequently. Pakistanis are then also self-deprecating, as their own shows talk about Paki this, and Paki that.

Perhaps had she done a search on the word Paki in google before writing his inflamitory editorial, she'd see the prolific number of Pakistani hosted sites which use the word with a degree of pride.

Maybe you're unaware of how harsh a label like "Moronic Intollerance" is. I've noticed that alot these days, people are given to over the top hyperbolic statements that they just can't adequately (or objectively) backup.

Listen, I don't worship Bush, or his administration by any stretch of the imagination, but I do get tired of people blindly accepting "talking points" assertions about someone. Then when you put them on the spot about it, ask them to really back up statements like "Bush is Hitler" or "Bush is the Anti-Christ" or "Bush is Moronically Intollerant", they can't.

I made these same arguments during the Clinton administration when over-the-top right wingers would give in to the same tendency about that president. It's not excusible behavior, and it certainly doesn't display political literacy.

-edited, after realizing the author was female... gender pronouns should be correct now.

he still made what many people consider to be a racial slur. It doesnt matter if you think it was or not, it wasnt aimed at your demographic, at your culture. The fact that you point out that it is acceptable within it's own community is immaterial. I could point to the N word in black culture to exemplify an emotionally powered word that can have both a negative and positive connotation. And now before you continue with your diatribe on the semantics of the term, I'd like to point out that it isnt a colloquial or a regional expression, all you would have to do to prove that is to call somone of that culture that name.

 

[SAJ]

If it is, then British newscasters are the most vile racists, as they throw the term around frequently. Pakistanis are then also self-deprecating, as their own shows talk about Paki this, and Paki that.

Show me one example of a newscaster using the word "paki" , you cant. It just doesnt happen.
As for Pakistani sites using the word, well its just like an african-american using the"n" word , its a form of reclaiming a term of abuse and rendering it useless as means of abuse.

As to the original question: As being American doesnt mean belonging to some unheard of race , then any form of abuse against Americans isnt racism.
You can call it prejudice or bigotry, but racism?
Get real mate.

 

[mortiz]

Paki for Pakistani is the same as Brit for British. I don't particularly see it as racist, although It depends on what context you use it in. Paki could be used to describe someone's country or someone's race (they use "Paki" to describe indians aswell), the latter of which is seen as politically wrong. Though it's a fine line, it's probably better not to use the word at all.

 

[^Ben]

Especially if you are the president.

 

[lord dubu]

The fact that you point out that it is acceptable within it's own community is immaterial. I could point to the N word in black culture to exemplify an emotionally powered word that can have both a negative and positive connotation.

Hypocrisy. Plain and simple. I can do this, but you can't regardless of your intention. You can't even use this word if you mean it in the politest sense, because it's my word, and its off limits to you.

But before the "semantics of paki" strawman argument completely overshadows my original intent. Let me reiterate.

I think you missed my point entirely. How does Bushb's alleged use of the word (without reference, or exact quote) prove objectively that is "Moronically Intollerant". It doesn't.

 

[CptStern]

Hypocrisy. Plain and simple. I can do this, but you can't regardless of your intention. You can't even use this word if you mean it in the politest sense, because it's my word, and its off limits to you.

exactly my point

But before the "semantics of paki" strawman argument completely overshadows my original intent. Let me reiterate.

I think you missed my point entirely. How does Bushb's alleged use of the word (without reference, or exact quote) prove objectively that is "Moronically Intollerant". It doesn't.

hmmmm let's see ...he innocently uses a racist word: moronic :E

he uses a racial slur: "intolerant" :E

 

[lord dubu]

exactly my point

Uhm No.

1) I was condemning the "I can slur you can't" mentality, be it blacks, whites, asians, or sentient shades of blue from alpha centauri. You were defending it. Er go, -not- your point.

hmmmm let's see ...he innocently uses a racist word: moronic

No. It's not a racist word. It wasn't used in a racist context. It's an abreviation.

I did some reading... too much time on my hands it would seem..

I must conceded one error though. I was wrong on the British use of this word. I have heard it used in newscasts, newscasts with british accents or rather accents that sound British to my untrained American ear. But that's a red herring since I can't be any more specific.

he uses a racial slur: "intolerant" :E

You're contradicting your own argument here.

Is he a moron who doesn't know that Paki is (allegedly) a slur?
or
Is he a vicious racist who cannot tolerate Pakis.

You can't have both be true at the same time.

But again, my point in all of this was not to herald Bush, but rather to call out netizens on thier tendency for hyperbole. As much as you may want to believe he's not in fact the devil in human form.

I don't like everything he does. I don't like everything any politician does. But I think it might be just a tad assinine to suggest that he is some how single handedly responsible for anti-american sentiment across the globe.

 

[CptStern]

Uhm No.

1) I was condemning the "I can slur you can't" mentality, be it blacks, whites, asians, or sentient shades of blue from alpha centauri. You were defending it. Er go, -not- your point.

no, I was not defending it. I made the point that it is a drogatory word to a large majority of people of that culture. It is completely irelevant that they themselves use that term.

No. It's not a racist word. It wasn't used in a racist context. It's an abreviation.

ya there's the moron part ..even school aged children know that's not an apporpriate word

I did some reading... too much time on my hands it would seem..

You're contradicting your own argument here.

really? I wasnt aware of that :upstare:

...you did notice the " :E ", right?

I don't like everything he does. I don't like everything any politician does. But I think it might be just a tad assinine to suggest that he is some how single handedly responsible for anti-american sentiment across the globe.

who said he was responsible for american hate? that's been brewing for 50 odd years due to america's deplorable foreign policy.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

who said he was responsible for american hate? that's been brewing for 50 odd years due to america's deplorable foreign policy.

Stern, I got more beer! Whoo!!!

 

[^Ben]

What sort?

We need some christmas love round here

 

[lister]

TBH i think every body is capable of being racist..end of story.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

What are you interested in? ^^ -- too ben.

 

[^Ben]

Im liking something that will warm the cockles, I'll have JD and coke

With some guiness

 

[Scoobnfl]

I also want to know why. Where does it stem from?

mainly from after WWII. We overstayed our welcome, and us being americans with too much $$$$ and after having liberated their country tended to get drunk, screw their women and remind them at every opportunity that we liberated their country.......

understandable I guess. It's unfortunate that we're not on better terms with them really, as their committment to us was pivotal in our winning the revolutionary war.

 

[GiaOmerta]

French people in America usually get the same treatment.

Nope. Not that I've seen. If they dislike Americans, **** em. I'm not going to waste my time visiting their country. Nothing to see but a phallus piercing the sky.

 

[Steve]

Nope. Not that I've seen. If they dislike Americans, **** em. I'm not going to waste my time visiting their country. Nothing to see but a phallus piercing the sky.

You might want to reconsider that. Southern France is quite beautiful. I went there with my soccer team a number of years ago on a 6 game tour, and we visited this little town in southern France called Langeac. What a great place.

 

[GiaOmerta]

Does it snow in France?

 

[Steve]

Does it snow in France?

It snows in Louisiana, so I would think so, yes.

 

[GiaOmerta]

Yeah, I suppose your right about both. The Gulf Stream probally doesnt effect France as much as it effects England.

 

[KoreBolteR]

(^Ben) - I don't know about that. What would the reasons be for that kind of behavior other then reacting to current political rivalry? Your blanket statement is just your opinion. So what reasons do you have that feel this way? Are you french? Are you American? Are you just here to cause trouble?

it seems like every other forum on here is to cause trouble directing at the US and West. but France trying to kick israelis/arabs out of thier country, and stop religion in thier schools is just plain racist, no doubt about it. Unlike most other countries which let foreigners in, and i cant think of any but the United Kingdom. France jus let Illegal immegrants cross under the channel tunnel to Calais to Dover, and UK government just sits back and lets them all enter.
id say atm, most other countries are doing more to help these Immegrants than france is doing (throwing the foreigners over here). but at least they get better treatment over here. (some even get free houses education and nhs) :dozey:

id like to add here tho, that i like france, cool people :angel: