Freedom of Speech for everyones ..except for Westboro church crazies

[CptStern]

Church ordered to pay $10.9 million for funeral protest


A federal jury in Baltimore, Maryland, Wednesday awarded $10.9 million to a father of a Marine whose funeral was picketed by members of a fundamentalist church carrying signs blaming soldiers' deaths on America's tolerance of homosexuals.

The family of Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder -- who was killed in a vehicle accident in Iraq's Anbar province in 2006 -- sued the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas, and its leaders for defamation, invasion of privacy and intentional infliction of emotional distress.

Church members showed up at Snyder's funeral chanting derogatory slogans and holding picket signs with messages including "God Hates Fags."

They've picketed the funerals of dozens of troops killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, claiming that God is punishing the United States because of its tolerance for homosexuality.

as much as I loathe the westboro fundamentalist nutjobs this is a violation of freedom of speech

"As far as their picketing goes, they want to do it in front of a courthouse, they want to do it in a public park, I could care less. But I couldn't let them get away with doing this to our military," Al Snyder said.

freedom of speech only applies if it's not against the military?

I absolutely hate that I'm defending them but this is a travesty ..the constitution grants freedom of speech, freedom of assembly

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/10/31/funeral.protest/?iref=mpstoryview

 

[Absinthe]

I'm in total agreement.

And the reasoning is just dense. "Yeah, they can do it everwhere else... But not to our good ol' boys in the military! WOO! Never forget! Support the troops!" is what it sounds like.

 

[CptStern]

I feel dirty ..and not the good kind of dirty


what's worse is that should this be tested on constitutional grounds the phelps clan will recieve more media attention than they deserve

 

[The Monkey]

That would fall under the Hate Crime category here in Sweden, I think.

 

[Cormeh]

Not that I'm an expert on U.S constitution or anything, but aren't these fundamentalist weirdos assuming freedom of speech in the absolute literal meaning? i.e. "we can say whatever we want, wherever we want, whenever we ant".

Whereas freedom of speech doesn't apply to intolerance and hate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech).

I don't want to defend these people at all to be honest, even though I'm no fan of the Iraq war, their absolutey disgusting lack of social decency parading around at the funerals of soldiers makes me think that this punishment is deserving, even though it is an obscene amount of money.

 

[No Limit]

I don't know, these assholes were disrupting a family funeral and were sued for defamation, invasion of privacy, and emotional distress. They were guilty of all 3 so I think the fine is in order. I don't think I have a right to go on church property and start disrupting services yelling how wonderful satan is.

 

[CptStern]

I'm not all that familiar with US law but I think hate speech is only applicable if it incites violence ..all else is covered under freedom of speech (as far as I know)


edit: were they on church grounds? and doesnt freedom of speech cover private property as well? i mean hate organisations have been spreading hate for years without so much as a court injunction

 

[Nemesis6]

The gained publicity is minimal in comparison to the financial loss. I can't possibly see how they could collect anything close to 10 million dollars, but then again... It's the Phelps. They've already got a card up their fag-free sleeve.

 

[Tyguy]

Couldnt be happier actually. **** them.

 

[phantomdesign]

I'm surprised these people haven't been sued before for slander.

 

[Mr Stabby]

The family of Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder -- who was killed in a vehicle accident in Iraq's Anbar province in 2006 -- sued the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas, and its leaders for defamation, invasion of privacy and intentional infliction of emotional distress.

That's not a free speech issue.

 

[Raziaar]

I think justice was served.

 

[CptStern]

That's not a free speech issue.

that's for the courts to decide ..their defense lawyer seems to think it is

 

[MiccyNarc]

I'm not all that familiar with US law but I think hate speech is only applicable if it incites violence ..all else is covered under freedom of speech (as far as I know)


edit: were they on church grounds? and doesnt freedom of speech cover private property as well? i mean hate organisations have been spreading hate for years without so much as a court injunction

Freedom of speech does not apply to privately owned land.

 

[Absinthe]

Oh, that definitely changes things. If they were on private property, then my conscience feels somewhat relieved.

 

[CptStern]

Freedom of speech does not apply to privately owned land.

it's not as clear cut as you think it is:

first amendment

Similarly, some states have adopted, under their protections for free speech, the Pruneyard doctrine, which prohibits private property owners whose property is equivalent to a traditional public forum (often shopping malls and grocery stores) from enforcing their private property rights to exclude political speakers and petition-gatherers. This doctrine has been rejected as a matter of federal constitutional law, but is meeting growing acceptance as a matter of state law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment

 

[Gunner]

Great

 

[The Monkey]

Even though it might not be exactly according to the law, the Westboro church having to pay nearly 11 million dollars still count as the best thing that could have happened, morally wise.

 

[CptStern]

it'll come down in appeal if it isnt throw right out ..however this being a civil case it might not be that easy to dismiss the verdict ..which is probably why they're using the first amendment reasoning

 

[Tyguy]

I heard an interview a couple hours ago with a lady who works for the Westboro asshole church. She basically said this was the best outcome possible, in that they have so much publicity now.

 

[Mr Stabby]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances

I don't see how a civil lawsuit from a private individual contradicts that.

 

[[Matt]]

Let me guess. the devil is in colusion with the judge!!

 

[K e r b e r o s]

freedom of speech only applies if it's not against the military?

Harrasment is not freedom of speech. According to most laws, it is a crime and thankfully Westboro finally got they're wrist slapped.