Freethinking Women

[el Chi]

*Hugs Stern*

 

[CptStern]

*hugs back*

 

[The Monkey]

Freethinking Women!? Heavens above, that is absurd!

-sarcasm-

I have something to add: "WHY IS IT THAT WOMEN DO NOT GET FORCIBLY CONSCRIPTED BUT MEN DO?" ITS NOT FAIR! THEY CAN FIGHT JUST AS WELL AS MEN!

Good question. I wonder that myself many times. I can't wait till I graduate from High School and get stuck in the mud for nine months If I pass the tests, that is. (Which I probably won't.)

 

[kirovman]

men are equally as stupid as women ..more so because society almost encourages us to be stupid

So true. Embrace technocracy! :O

 

[CptStern]

So true. Embrace technocracy! :O

all these years of watching football have made me slow and dull witted ..techno-crazy ...I recognize those two words but they just dont make a whole lotta sense, I reckon it means machines gone all crazy like ...does that mean my john deere is gonna kill me in my sleep? ...here let my pull out my Encyclo-peedia ..I got a whole set of them when I bought my pickup

 

[Sulkdodds]

So true. Embrace technocracy! :O

You're only saying that because you'd be the one in power.

 

[kirovman]

True, but that's true of any form of government.

At least I'm open enough to admit it.

Me +3: You have chosen your civics wisely!

 

[Sulkdodds]

See, all this time I thought you were joking but actually, looking at it, it's quite a good idea.

 

[>>FrEnZy<<]

more so because society almost encourages us to be stupid

Almost?

Your attitudes towards "gender confusion" I found particularly infuriating. What you claimed was social observation; it sounded to me like the equivalent of saying "women have gotten ideas above their station"

No, I'm saying women have gotten freedoms that they do not know how to use responsibly. I mean just look at the rate abortion has risen since the feminist revolutions (although factors such as techonological advancement may have also contributed to rising abortion rates.).

I, in no way think that women are 'lesser' than men, infact I hate men more than I do women, My issue is, that women no longer know, what it MEANS to be a woman, and I argue that the freedoms the feminist revolution have given are the cause of this. Furthermore, I believe that these freedoms have only subjected females to be increasingly exploited and demeaned by society.

>>FrEnZy<<
I wrote this long counter-argument, but alas I lost it. However to sum it up:
You claim to be logical by basing society around an instinct-based ideology; to me, your arguments simply sound like regressive attitudes towards us as sentient beings (totally undercutting our potential) and blatant sexism.
I could see a twisted logic to your argument, yet that does not mean I agree with it, nor does that mean it holds much validity. It means that I could see your starting point.

Thats a really big shame. I really would have like to seen your counter arguments and continue this debate.

 

[15357]

So true. Embrace technocracy! :O

No, no, no, Embrace Militaristic Technocracy! :O

Then, you'd still be in power and there will be more uh... power.

 

[gick]

No, I'm saying women have gotten freedoms that they do not know how to use responsibly. I mean just look at the rate abortion has risen since the feminist revolutions (although factors such as techonological advancement may have also contributed to rising abortion rates.)

WTF? Who the hell are you to decide how women can 'use their freedoms'?

My issue is, that women no longer know, what it MEANS to be a woman.

And you do? So please frenzy, enlighten us. What is the 'meaning' of being a woman. Staying at home cooking and cleaning?

 

[Sulkdodds]

Er, it doesn't mean anything to be a woman?
Life is what you make it?

 

[gick]

Er, it doesn't mean anything to be a woman?
Life is what you make it?

Precisely. The impression i get of Frenzy's argument is that he thinks the sexes have roles or meanings governing what they should do. Obviously thats BS.

 

[Rupertvdb]

I'd say that this is a pretty goddamn bizarre topic to start in the first place myself. By 'women' what do you even mean? White, Western and of a similar age to you?

If we ignore the fact you haven't actually described which women (Women in the Sudan may differ somewhat from those in the United Kingdom, for example) I would also suggest you think about biological nuances. Males are the risk-takers of the species, when applied to debating, as in this case, I would suggest that this means that they are more vocal about their opinions.

To be fair, i'm horrifically hung over so i'm in no real state to get too argumentative. I also haven't read any follow-up posts as I went straight to the last page and (suprise suprise) no one has said anything halfway decent about the original topic, so just go crazy on me.

 

[>>FrEnZy<<]

WTF? Who the hell are you to decide how women can 'use their freedoms'?

Am I in anyway deciding what their freedoms are? I merely said that the freedoms that have been bestowed upon them are being used irresponsibly. This is why women are being increaslingly objectified. Because they have the freedom to allow themselves to be.

Think of it like this, why don't i have the freedom to use nuclearweaponry? Who are YOU to decided Im not allowed to use nukes? Do you see how giving freedoms doesnt neccessarily mean making things better for people?

And you do? So please frenzy, enlighten us. What is the 'meaning' of being a woman. Staying at home cooking and cleaning?

I'm not completely sure anymore to be honest. But if you bothered reading my later posts i think you will form a fair idea. Basically its a gender role based on a females in herent biological nature.

 

[dys4iK]

I'm not sure that there is any evidence supporting the conclusion that there are fewer freethinking women than previously, or fewer than there are men.

I'm also unsettled that you lumped 'atheism' and 'free thought' together (note: I am an atheist).

I don't consider people arguing long and loud about other people's opinions to be free thought. As this is what happens most of the time on these forums and in personal discussions, I consider free thought in general to be extremely rare.

So it isn't just women, it's everyone.

 

[gick]

Am I in anyway deciding what their freedoms are? I merely said that the freedoms that have been bestowed upon them are being used irresponsibly.

You are judging how an entire gender can 'use their freedoms'. You might as well be deciding what their freedoms are.

This is why women are being increaslingly objectified. Because they have the freedom to allow themselves to be.

And women weren't treated as objects before feminism? And you are saying that they are being objectified 'because they have the freedom to allow themselves to be'? That makes no sense at all.

Think of it like this, why don't i have the freedom to use nuclearweaponry? Who are YOU to decided Im not allowed to use nukes? Do you see how giving freedoms doesnt neccessarily mean making things better for people?

Because nuclear weaponry is the most dangerous and destructive force that mankind has ever known. Hardly comparable to women's lib, is it?

 

[bliink]

No, I'm saying women have gotten freedoms that they do not know how to use responsibly.

Would it be irresponsible of me to invoke ban on you (as a result of being female)?

Think carefully about your answer.

 

[el Chi]

Would it be irresponsible of me to invoke ban on you (as a result of being female)?

Think carefully about your answer.

*Shakes head* Hah! Women!

 

[>>FrEnZy<<]

You are judging how an entire gender can 'use their freedoms'. You might as well be deciding what their freedoms are.

Correction: I am judging how an entire gender IS using their freedoms.

And women weren't treated as objects before feminism? And you are saying that they are being objectified 'because they have the freedom to allow themselves to be'? That makes no sense at all.

Ofcourse they were objectified before feminism. They've been objectified through out all of history. However, I maintain that they are now being objectived more than ever due to some of the freedoms that they are no able to excersize.

Because nuclear weaponry is the most dangerous and destructive force that mankind has ever known. Hardly comparable to women's lib, is it?

Yes that was a little extreme, but Im trying to point out to you that giving someone freedoms doesn't neccesarily mean it makes things better. Like cigaretes. In the past people were given the freedom to smoke them, they were ignorant of it's harms back then. However, even now when they know it's harmful to both them, and the people around them they continue to smoke. This is an example of people using their freedoms irresponsibly.
In the case of womens lib, think about sexual liberation. Before it was socially taboo for a female to engage in intercourse before marriage, but now, with the freedom to excercise who ever they want to have sex with, females are increasingly being exploited by a media designed to control there sexuality in order to get them to consume more. Just look at a cosmopolitan magazine. The whole magazine basically objectifes women and it has these disgusting articles that provides detailed information on how to give head, yet its one of the most popular magazines amoung females. What does that tell you about the attitude that females have towards themselves and how they use their sexual freedoms?

Listen, Ive gone over all this in my other posts, before making assumptions about my beleifs I implore you to read over them.

 

[>>FrEnZy<<]

Would it be irresponsible of me to invoke ban on you (as a result of being female)?

Think carefully about your answer.

No, it would be irresponsible of you as a moderator who is insulted by my views against feminism to invoke a ban on me.

 

[bliink]

No, it would be irresponsible of you as a moderator who is insulted by my views against feminism to invoke a ban on me.

Ahah a loaded answer!

 

[el Chi]

As much as I hate to admit it - he makes a good point.
EDIT: About it being irresponsible purely as a moderator, not as a lady. Let's just get that clear.

 

[>>FrEnZy<<]

-sixchar

 

[el Chi]

I should like to re-emphasise at this point that I disagree with, essentially, all of the things you've said on the subject of sexism/gender roles.
You just made a valid point on moderator power abuse.

 

[bliink]

Am I a less competent moderator due to gender?

 

[el Chi]

Am I a less competent moderator due to gender?

Ignoring every instinct in my body to make an "ironic" sexist joke (I kid, I kid - I know it's neither big nor clever, especially considering some of the nonsense in this thread) I'll answer thruthfully; of course it doesn't. As I said, I don't agree with any of the sexist lunacy he was spouting.

 

[>>FrEnZy<<]

I think you're more competent as a moderator to tell you the truth bliink. I think most moderators should be female, as they are generally less aggressive and more understanding before making decisions.