Futuristic Military vs. alien mod... feedback is appreciated

[Yuri]

Okay. I find it a bit uncomfortable posting in here about a mod in the sea of many others, but I just had a small idea and was wondering if anyone would be willing to play it. Comments are appreciated, but please no flaming or crap like that, keep in mind that this is only an idea I have, and that I'm only posting in here to see if people would like it. Just try to keep it constructive critisism, please... not sarcastic mocking.

So, I've always thought that the movies "Starship Troopers" and "Aliens" (the second one) would make an interesting concept for a mod. I know that "Alien vs. Predator 2" has already been made (a great game at that), but I was aiming toward something a little different. Also, it shouldn't be based on the movies, they are only the general concept.

So... a multiplayer co-op mod set on an alien planet or something like that, where the players are marines with somewhat futuristic weapons and equipment. I've always liked teamplay, and hate how no one plays like that.. so the players would be forced to work together by having another player direct them through and give orders, but stay out of the combat (similiar to Natural Selection, I guess, I've never actually played it) The players would be fighting alien-thingies or some more original idea, whatever, that were controlled with AI. The players would do different missions together, and if they died then they could give others orders or something with the player that stayed behind. Hmm... writing this down now seems a bit lame, but whatever.

An additional idea for the setting could be that the players are shrunk down really small and have to fight bugs or something. I dunno.

I realize that it may not be all that original, but... isn't that why I posted in here? I'd just like to find out.

 

[IchI]

Hmmm... its not really unoriginal. Its just random... mods like your diea never work because they are not controlled well enough and they just add idea after idea. I mean, the whole commander system is on the naterual selections biggest flaws. If you was ever even thinking about making a mod where you get ideas from them at least play them to understand what works and doesn't work. I mean.... I can't really imagen anything in m y head except for a film... I have no real idea of what to actually be thinking about?

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Hmm. Avoid the cliche of NS command view (which is being put into every other mod now), and have a squad leader instead, who gets a hand-scanner thing that acts as a radar, and can issue orders to squad members (Through a dropdown list, a player could be selected, and then 'move to location' selected - a blip will appear in the selected unit's viewscreen that corresponds to the furthest region a traceline can reach from the leader's crosshairs.
In NS, only the die-hard RTS fans want to be the Commander - the rest want to shoot instead. A squad leader like I described combines the best of both worlds.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[random.hero]

people around here, keep bashing mod ideas for not being 'original', but most of the mod ideas have already been made, the good ones anyway, and the others are rotting in the depths of hell.

i mean, youve got your survival horrors, space battles, alien vs human, machine vs human and swat team/army stuff. that kind of sums it up. personally, i think that a mod can almost always be bettered. come to think of it, the only way you can get round this 'original' barrier, is in making a new, and gripping SP game, as MP games show no imagination for a storyline, or structure/development of the story, just a load of models, maps, skins and coding. sorry if that seems blunt, and dont get me wrong, i like a lot of games, but looking at it simply, thats all it is.

for example, take CS and Rainbow Six/America's Army, both have basically the same idea, but tweaking the gameplay ( like the bots, ballistics, movement/damage and maps ) makes the game totally different. just cause NS had the idea of a commander system, doesnt mean you cant make it, cause some little kid who has no clue about games development will go 'oooo you stole that idea from NS' thats crap, if its gonna add to the experience and fun of the game, stick it in, maybe adding your own twist, to set it slightly apart and maybe better NS.

PS. havnt read your mod idea, and havnt got time to atm, so thats just a bit of ramble and my opinion

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Okay, I'm going to assume that the comment about a little kid with no clue isn't directed at me, because I don't like confrontation.
But, the main flaw with the NS command view is that nobody really wants to be left behind in a chair - by making the commander a portable soldier with a handheld computer, you've got the ability to fight AND command.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Yuri]

First of all, Lawyer, I don't think it was aimed toward you. Also, I love your squad leader idea, but I was thinking there would be too many "commands" and it would overtake the player and not let him fight. Simplifying the commands wouldn't be so hard. However, the other problem would be moronic players who don't listen. But thats just me rambling. I really would like to get NS and see what the hell you are talking about, too, but see... I have 56k for at least another week. Blah.

Anyway, I wasn't aiming toward "original" at all in this idea. I was more aiming toward combining all the multi-player characteristics that I personally like, and seeing if enough people really like this combination to make a mod.

As for Ichi, I don't mean offense by this, but I don't really understand what you are trying to say. I know there are lots of random ideas in there, but that is because this is only a concept. If I were to actually seriously start this mod, I would have ideas set in stone.

Also for hero, I agree that MP games generally have no interesting plot... while SP games do. In the other hand, SP games (for me at least) get old fast. However, co-op games I beleive are the best of both worlds, with a running plot and the fun of interacting with other players. That, of course, is only my opinion.

If this mod were to be serious, it also wouldn't just be made and then done with. It would be a continuous project, where the mod team, or even individual people can make separate missions and such to add on to the original.

Thank you all for your feedback. And keep posting, your ideas and critisism are interesting.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Possible commands:

Select/deselect unit - traces a line from the crosshairs - if it strikes a unit - BOSH - he's selected/deselected.
Move to my location - creates a blip on all selected player's screen, at the coordinates of the leader.
Move to target location - Crates a blip at the furthest point strikable by a traceline from the crosshair.
Attack my target - a different coloured blip appears.
Defend my target - again, another coloured blip.

It's pretty simple - just take the bare minimums, and rely on speech to sort out the intricacies.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[IchI]

Saying originaly has gone is a stupid thing to say. The imagination has no boundarys. I am not trying to make mys elf look good. But I have made 3 design documents 1 which u lot might remember kinda like the chess style Team based game. In my opinion these had overweling originality.

 

[Yuri]

Saying originaly has gone is a stupid thing to say. The imagination has no boundarys. I am not trying to make mys elf look good. But I have made 3 design documents 1 which u lot might remember kinda like the chess style Team based game. In my opinion these had overweling originality.

I completely agree.

However, this idea was not meant to be 'original.'

 

[Mechagodzilla]

The main idea you have there is interesting. Lots of folks could complain that you're ripping off the movies you mentioned, but I don't think that argument ever really applies because of the vast difference in media.

Still, the ideas you presented are certainly at their most basic. The genre, IMO, is amoung the least important things. The real importance is what sorts of original additions you can add.
There are thousands of soldiers vs. monsters games, but they're all (for the most part) different. The question is what will make your game different from them. Will your aliens have a strange night-vision? Will the soldiers have the ability to fight hand-to-hand? It's mechanics like that that make the game original, not the concept.

 

[Yuri]

I realize my ideas are basic and vague, but that is because they were just ideas. I also wanted feedback on what other people thought were good ideas, and I certainly got what I wanted. Thanks guys.

Anyway, I think I'll further my concept with some more ideas.

First off, I want this to be a strict teamplay game. So corporals would be installed. On the first mission, the corporal(s) would be picked randomly. But after that, players would be promoted or denoted based on kills and points earned. Further, if a player became a corporal and they didn't want to, or someone who wasn't as good did, they could "resign" to a private and the position could either be given out or voted on. (This is all possible, right? I'm not a coder.)

I can't decide if multiple corporals with a single sergent is a good idea, or just one sergent.

The corporals would have some hot-key commands, that make a map ping on an overview for all of the players. This would include things like "attack here" or "fall back here" or "put sniper here" or something along those lines. (Thanks to Angry Lawyer for these great ideas.) It wouldn't be too complicated, and wouldn't keep the corporal back from fighting. Also, there would be some way to punish people who don't follow orders... because we all know that those people exist. Something to keep them in line, but I can't figure out what would do that.

All the while, there are many missions to progress through, all dealing with a general theme of military vs. aliens. Stuff like a "defending the base" map, where the players are given mortars against enemy onslaught, rescuing citizens or blowing up "nests", stuff like that.

Furthermore, there wouldn't be one endless stream of maps. There would be groups of maps, like "campaigns" that you can choose from, and beat those. And I would try my best to keep making new campaigns to keep the mod alive.

Anyway, those are just some ideas I had. Feel free to keep commenting.

Oh, and I know its a lot to read. Hehe.

 

[Kangy]

I like some of the ideas, and I'd like to see this mod finished, even if I've got no interest in anything other than single player mods and TFC

However, to Random.hero, I'd like to say that people are running out of ideas, and should be excused for making "Counter-Terrorism Actions" because they couldn't think of anything isn't all that responsible. To make a succesfull mod, you need to be imaginative and creative. Hasn't any thought of Counter-Terrorism in space? Or a futurized version of Rome's conquest of Europe? No, nobody has, but I'd like to see someone try. Originality is what made the games industry, and I'll be damned if it dies.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

I've also got no problems with mods in an overdone setting, if they do it in an angle nobody's really thought about before. Most WWII mods focus on the D-Day landings, and America, and stuff. This, I find boring because it's done so many times. But, then someone starts up a WWII that has Finland against Russia, or something. What a great way to bring new thought to an old concept

Make the corporal a votable position too. Some people are better leaders than others. Ohh, and give the corporal a battlemap on an actual hand-scanner - it's doable, using the camera things they used on the G-Man in the concept video things.

A different way to do it would be to have the commander sit in the chair, like in NS... but make the chair inside a massive battletank, complete with big guns and crap.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Yuri]

Yeah, there would be an option for the players to vote on the coporal. He would have a minimap much like Dod's. Also, in some missions there would be Lietunants or whatever who give orders to the corporals of different groups, if that can be done.

I think that a cool addition would be for some of the aliens to have the ability to walk on the walls and ceiling. One of the basic concepts would be for the enemy aliens to attack in waves, melee-style only they move very quickly and can dodge around by jumping and clinging to walls and such.

Anyway, I think I'll post a more detailed and finished version of my concept in a bit. I just have one question:

Would anyone actually be interested in helping me make this? Meaning, modelers, sound artists, and definately coders. Skinners and texture artists, too. Just post here if you would.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Really does depend on how much time my personal mod eats up.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[random.hero]

yeha, i havtn got time to read all the post since i last posted, but first il say that no Lawyer that wasnt aimed at you, i dont like confrontations either. second, Ichi, im not saying that originality has gone, cause thats just balls, im saying that people bash mods for their genre, because theyve been done before, even though their gameplay could be new and interesting.

 

[PunisherUSA]

I know you said it wasn't terribly original, but if you're seriously considering making a mod, it has to have something new and different, though the theme may be identical.

Here is some constructive criticism (no mocking or flaming intended):

Humans vs. Aliens is EVERYWHERE. People just get tired tired of it. And at this point, trying to attract an audiece by saying 'humans vs. aliens with a commander' isn't really gonna work.

One thing that is much more infrequent is aliens vs. aliens. The only one I can think of is aliens vs. predators. It also allows more options than sticking with human/marines who always have the machin-gun/shotgun/motion-tracking style equipment.

I seriously recommend dumping any 'commander' idea. They're all very hard to perfect. Natural Selection does a decent job, but problems with the commander are still evident.

Perhaps make a true half-life port of the AvP or Starcraft universe?

One thing to keep in mind is with HL2, you will be given limited use of vehicles, as well as additional difficulty with detail and coding.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Yuri]

Honestly, this was only an idea, and marines vs aliens was just something I was thinking of at the moment, not anything cast in stone. Although, Alien vs. Predator 2 would be a huge source of ideas for me. That game was awesome, but I always wanted more "teamplay" that you hardly ever see in games. I realize that human vs. aliens is pretty cliché, but that part of it is open to big changes.

I actually think that a corporal would work pretty well, but whatever, its not like I've ever tried it. I mean, maybe its hard to do, but if it was done right, I think that it would be pretty cool. I've never played Natural Selection, so I wouldn't know about that.

Here are some things that I would like to see in "my" mod:
-forced teamplay through corporals or whatever
-a sci-fi-type setting (none of that "realistic" stuff), not limited to futuristic
- "Campaigns" to go through, like a series of maps, with new campaigns added every so often, each campaign has a continuing main story-line, but also its own with its own characters and such
-co-op would be good, although I think that co-op games have little replay value, so I suppose that may change
-definately the sci-fi humor found in Aliens (the second one), Predator, Starcraft (the in-between movies), and Starship Troopers

So I guess that my title for this thread kinda sucks, but I really didn't think that I could start out a mod in the first place.

Also, if it was possible to make an Alien vs. Predator or just an Alien mod (meaning I got all the permission needed, which I know would be impossible, especially with the movie coming out soon), I would absolutly love to do so.

 

[Yuri]

Hey, I just noticed... no mods have commented in this thread. (Like Fenric! :thumbs: )

Is it because you guys are sick of hearing about all these mods that are all the same, or did you guys just not notice it?

 

[Angry Lawyer]

In my opinion, the Protoss were the best Alien race ever concieved. But using them is encroaching (damn, I can't spell that when hungover) on copyrights.

You've got a solid(ish) idea there - I'd run with it, if I were you.

*a lightbulb appears over Angry Lawyer's head*

If you make the marines in the game a nationality different from American, then you've got an idea that nobody else tends to do.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[PunisherUSA]

Russian Marines! Secret space mission to Pluto during the Cold War with laser guns!

but seriously:

I was also thinking about that angry lawyer. Of all the 'aliens' ever seen in games/movies/tv, the protoss are quite unique. However, I started to realize they basically play the role of human/marines (bipedal, relatively weak, but intelligent, advanced technology, etc.)

But I would concur that using Protoss (tm) is a little more interesting than just plain marines.

 

[babywax]

Why do they have to be weak? Give them tons of armor if you want. Make the melee, and then give them longer respawn times than the other team. That way they have to fight off hordes of enemy's. However, if you're going coop, then the balance doesn't have to be as delicate, no one gets pissed off on the enemy team.

 

[PunisherUSA]

ummm, by weak I meant an unassisted human will lose to an unassisted alien. Protoss and human/marines are always given advanced armor and weapons.

I dunno about the incredibly tough bit though. It gets dumb playing multiplayer when one team's players will have scores of 2 kills and 30+ deaths, while the other is going 30+ / 2.

It gets boring reeeeal fast. Unless you're the guy in tons of armor.

 

[babywax]

If done correctly it can be very fun to storm with a bunch of your allies. The system lets the tough guys win at first, but once the aliens get a foothold they quickly overwhelm the tough ones. Especially if you allow spawn points to move forward.

 

[Yuri]

Man, I'd do a lot to get permission to make either an Alien vs. Predator mod, or a Starcraft one... but it would be impossible. Starcraft 2 and that first person shooter based on Starcraft are supposed to be coming out, right? And Alien vs. Predator the movie is going to be released this summer...

I suppose there is no damage done in asking, though...

You've got a solid(ish) idea there - I'd run with it, if I were you.

Well, I kind of have interest in making this mod myself, but I would need people, and it seems like everyone is either already making a mod (and I can't join, poo) or they want to do their own idea. I would love to run with this idea, even just some of the basic stuff and converge with another mod, if possible, but I don't know... would that happen?

Russian Marines! Secret space mission to Pluto during the Cold War with laser guns!

Hah, I deserve that from what I posted in your thread.

If I were to ever make this mod, I would try to be a little more interesting then plain American marines. They are a bit overused (heh, "a bit.")

 

[Teddy]

Saying originality has gone is a stupid thing to say. The imagination has no boundarys. I am not trying to make myself look good. But I have made 3 design documents, one which you lot might remember kinda like the chess style Team based game. In my opinion these had overweling originality.

A chess based/themed/styled mod isn't really overflowing with originality, why just look at all these mods which did it first:

http://mods.moddb.com/2656/
http://www.planetquake.com/brazen/arq/
http://www.planetquake.com/retroquake/quess13.htm
http://www.planetquake.com/minion/minion.htm

I think it's laughable how much importance you people put on a mod idea's originality.. I mean, the idea is a pretty small part of a mod, it's how well you make the game that really counts!

 

[Yuri]

If an idea is not at least somewhat original, it will never be played-- because theres so damn many just like it. It may be done really well, but its no fun if its the same thing you've already played.

 

[Teddy]

I disagree with that.. have a look at Counter-Strike Source, exactly the same game, only thing different is texture quality and water reflections/refractions... do you think people will flock to play this game? bet your ass they will!

For example, I've seen a lot of world war 2 mods, which typically all have very similar gameplay ideas, yet their execution of these ideas is what makes the game good or not. People like to play familure and proven game types, and are not often keen to venture outside of the norm (eg. the reason why Quess didn't take off!)

 

[Yuri]

Well, I think Counterstrike is a bit different... it already has millions of players who would keep playing original it even if CS: Source never came out. I'm more talking about people who play a mod, and then get tired of it. When a new, but somewhat better mod comes out that is almost identical, they might play it for a while, but I doubt they would play it much.

And how many people do you know that play all of the Counterstrike clones which may be better?

Maybe originality isn't the most important thing, but its still important if you want people to actually play it. Its just my opinion, however, I mean, I'm no expert on gamer psychology. But I know that I don't have much ambition to play another counterstike mod, which may be better, just because I'm somewhat sick of counterstrike.

 

[Foxtrot]

Hmmm... its not really unoriginal. Its just random... mods like your diea never work because they are not controlled well enough and they just add idea after idea. I mean, the whole commander system is on the naterual selections biggest flaws. If you was ever even thinking about making a mod where you get ideas from them at least play them to understand what works and doesn't work. I mean.... I can't really imagen anything in m y head except for a film... I have no real idea of what to actually be thinking about?

The biggest flaw of natural selection was getting rid of the commander system, now it feels like a death match.

 

[ductonius]

I think it's laughable how much importance you people put on a mod idea's originality.. I mean, the idea is a pretty small part of a mod, it's how well you make the game that really counts!

While I do think that the execution of a concept is extremly important for the success of a mod, concider that the mod community for video games is akin to the independant film industry for movies.

While the big budgets of the studios make blockbusters which the prettiest effects and the biggest name actors, they dont turn out movies with very origonal content. Thier job is to turn out a concept flawlessly every time.

The independant film producers make films based on new ideas or new trends in the art. Thier job is to experiment with new film techniques and methods.

Similarly, the game studios have to execute a game concept flawlessly every time, but that means they cant experiment with new techniques.

Mods, however, becuae they have no money at stake, can do whatever they want. Their bastion is that of creativity; exploring new trends and techniques in the art.


This is why origonality is so important to a mod. If a mod is nothing but a copy, it is defeating the purpose of the very existance of the mod community.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

As an extra point, make the humans interstellar UN peacekeepers. That way, every (I think) Earth-based country is represented, and everyone's happy. The UN has a cool flag too.

From a coding perspective, it doesn't look like it'll take all that much, actually. When HL2's SDK is released, give me a quick message, and dependant on how work on my own mod/social life is going, I'll try and help you out a little on the coding front.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Yuri]

Angry Lawyer, if I'm still alive when Halfe Life 2 is released (meaning that I haven't died of old age yet), I'll give you a shout. You seem to have some great ideas, man.

And I agree with ductonius on originality.

Maybe when I get back from vacation I'll make a new thread asking for some more help on this, or maybe to converge with another mod.

 

[Osmius]

Agent Smith. I am with you on this one.
Lets get in contact. [email protected]

 

[Synthos]

here's a good idea for you TAS... Why don't you take the HL2 multiplayer and re-code it so that it makes teamplaying really easy and much more beneficial...
no need for new models, just using combine vs. ants or something.
i mean, look at sven co-op, it's pretty popular.. but no one works as a team in it either...

design a system where it's very easy for people to work together, and reward them for it.

that's it. Although it's easier said than done.