Gabe Newell on the next generation

He defintely knows the industry so I'm guessing he's correct in some, if not all, of his predictions. However, these new multicore consoles might boost the desire to unlock all the power of the processors. In a more positive light, this might be exactly what programmers and game developers need.
 
heh, he basically strongly supported everything I have been believed (in more technical terms) since the annoucement of the PS3.

There is one thing however that I think Gabe is wrong about unfortunately "I'm worried for the customers. And that we view customers as complete morons that will never catch on and that we're lying to them all the time. "

In my experience most gaming customers either don't care or they are morons.
 
The Mullinator said:
In my experience most gaming customers either don't care or they are morons.
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I agree. One has but to look at the Gamespot Forums to see that kids don't give a squirt about understanding the technology, they just want an uber system with which they can beat their friends over the head. They will believe whatever hype the companies throw at them and live and die by the words of Allard and Kutagari. *cringes*

Gabe is right that coding these next-gen games is not something to be undertaken by the mediocre game developer or code-bloating programmer. The next gen should really separate the men from the boys, so to speak, and we will all see what teams have the most creative and brilliant minds capable of taking advantage of this exciting new tech.
 
"I'm worried for the customers. And that we view customers as complete morons that will never catch on and that we're lying to them all the time. "
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That is true for some companies... that is not true for most.
 
True for some = sony and MS.

The 2 biggest.
 
Yea Gabe just smack downed the entire console industry. ^_^
 
Multicore engines sound fun. Maybe I should be a game developer next time.
 
He's right, and some console fanboys can't accept it.
 
Fliko said:
That is true for some companies... that is not true for most.
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Certainly the big companies like Sony and Microsoft view the public as idiots. It's rather obvious with the claims that they throw around and expect the public to bite.
 
JellyWorld said:
Multicore engines sound fun. Maybe I should be a game developer next time.
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What, In like your next life? Because that's how long it's probably going to be 'till you can get a decent game code working for them :p
 
Javert said:
Yea Gabe just smack downed the entire console industry. ^_^
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PC's are multicored too just not quite yet. Does everyone here think that this just relates to consoles? Half Life 3 will have to overcome the hurdle of multicore processors if it wants to remain competitive as the source engine is now!
 
cant they make a computer program to bridge the gap when writing multi core code... so you dont have to.. Gabes right tho, we are treated like morons, e.g, omg our console will be so powerful it will do this.. que techdemo of meaninglessness, otha than eye candy.
 
clarky: There are debuggers which keep track of the different cores and threads and such, but there's no program that can stop things from going wrong.

The problem is, that sometimes you will get code on a seperate core going into memory and changing something, while in another core, it may be writing into that memory at the same time... Multi-core stuff can cause wierd-ass bugs that puts most programmers to the test...
 
clarky003 said:
cant they make a computer program to bridge the gap when writing multi core code...
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Ker-ching, that's where the money is. The next generation will be the generation of middleware.
 
I suppose you could have a virtual core. Your program interacts with the virtual core and then the virtual core distributes the processes between your two (or more) cores. However it means taking control away from the programmer and it'd also be a slow down (in terms of bottlenecking your virtual core). Actually, that idea's rubbish now that I've thought about it some more.
 
Grey Fox said:
And nintendo.
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Fox, how do you clump Nintendo into that group. Speaking only of the Revolution, what specs has Nintendo dumped on us?? Aside from a pure gaming experience, with what has Nintendo tried to sell their console?? I don't know a damn thing about it except that it's going to offer most of the best games ever created. What specs does Nintendo use to brag about the DS?? Both may end up being gimmicky, BUT at least all they're trying to sell you on is a great/unique gaming experience not a boatload of specifications.

Isn't that the message that Gabe is trying to get across?? If the games rock, why are you trying to sell people on your console or for that matter a load of specification that are "real world" meaningless for most gamers/games?? I would hardly clump Nintendo into the company of MS and Sony. I don't think Nintendo feels gamers are stupid, but a lot of people that play video games happen to be morons....that's Sony and MS's audience...unfortunatly, that's all they believe exist.

Hopefully people begin purchasing for great games and not a load of nonsense.
 
Looks like we can expect to see an even bigger barrage of medicore, poorly coded games hitting the console shelves. One of the things I'm worried about is production costs and development time... Back in the days of NES, it must have only taken a couple of months to make a game from scratch, with only a small team. When the playstation hits, the games take longer to make but it's worth it; the jump to 3D has inspired developers to make the best games possible. Suddenly with the PS2 etc. it's all about graphics, and games take years to make, with only a few actually having ANY gameplay at all. Now, it's going to be practically impossible to make a console game, so I'm afraid that the only 'decent' titles will be follow ups to games that have already made a heap of money- like Metal Gear Solid. It's unlikely we're ever going to see an invintive console game again.
 
Suicide42 said:
Looks like we can expect to see an even bigger barrage of medicore, poorly coded games hitting the console shelves. One of the things I'm worried about is production costs and development time... Back in the days of NES, it must have only taken a couple of months to make a game from scratch, with only a small team. When the playstation hits, the games take longer to make but it's worth it; the jump to 3D has inspired developers to make the best games possible. Suddenly with the PS2 etc. it's all about graphics, and games take years to make, with only a few actually having ANY gameplay at all. Now, it's going to be practically impossible to make a console game, so I'm afraid that the only 'decent' titles will be follow ups to games that have already made a heap of money- like Metal Gear Solid. It's unlikely we're ever going to see an invintive console game again.
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Agreed. And the PC will still be there, just as it always has been, patiently waiting while console developers and gamers tear their hair. It is relatively easy for a few good friends to get together and release a PC game(or at least a mod) that is as good if not better than the tripe most console development houses are churning out.

Don't get me wrong, there are a bunch of console games that will always be personal favs, but things are getting out of control and this generation may be the one where people finally realize that GRAPHICS ARE NOT EVERYTHING. It has sort of been thrown around this gen, but with the power of the next-gen consoles, it will be very easy for programmers to spend months trying to code their shaders properly instead of worrying about the biggest success factor for a game: IS IT FUN?

I, for one, am more excited for the PC adventure titles coming out in the next year by the small houses formed by former Lucasarts employees and others who have more talent/creativity/vision in their little finger than most console developers of today. Gameplay, gameplay, gameplay.
 
Pfftt after playing round with surround sound and some nice speakers I can now safely say that sound is much more important in a game than graphics.

I mean look at System Shock 2.....
 
Suicide42 said:
Looks like we can expect to see an even bigger barrage of medicore, poorly coded games hitting the console shelves.
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I'd agree if it wasn't on the pc that you find a much higher ratio of mediocre and poorly coded games ;)

There are some great games on the pc, and i'm a massive pc games fan, but the majority of quality titles in each generation have always been found on consoles. Up to now at least.

*imagines Nintendo making SMB3 in just a month - then slaps himself for being silly*
 
Guys, guys, aren't you being just a little premature with your predictions? Some of you say that we'll be stuck with "middleware" and mediocre games. What about Gears Of War, COD2, Unreal Championship2k7, Perfect Dark 0, Killzone 2, and a bunch of games that haven't even been discussed yet? A lot of these games look good and definitely have the potential to be fun. They don't have to be revolutionary but just fun and enjoyable.

How many console launches have you been through? I've experienced quite a few myself and each one sounds exactly like it does today. Its filled with hype and trash-talk. Did some of the games not live up to the looks of the tech demos? Yes. But look how many great games came out of the current generation.

I say that we wait one full year until after these consoles launch so that we can see what the industry has accomplished in the past and look forward to the future. Devs will be met with challenges but will it stop them from making games? No. They'll just have to adapt.

Gabe might be too pessimistic.
 
satch919 said:
Guys, guys, aren't you being just a little premature with your predictions? Some of you say that we'll be stuck with "middleware" and mediocre games. What about Gears Of War, COD2, Unreal Championship2k7, Perfect Dark 0, Killzone 2, and a bunch of games that haven't even been discussed yet? A lot of these games look good and definitely have the potential to be fun. They don't have to be revolutionary but just fun and enjoyable.

How many console launches have you been through? I've experienced quite a few myself and each one sounds exactly like it does today. Its filled with hype and trash-talk. Did some of the games not live up to the looks of the tech demos? Yes. But look how many great games came out of the current generation.

I say that we wait one full year until after these consoles launch so that we can see what the industry has accomplished in the past and look forward to the future. Devs will be met with challenges but will it stop them from making games? No. They'll just have to adapt.

Gabe might be too pessimistic.
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I agree completely with you they will eventually overcumb the challenge and the first gen games will be pretty poor compared to the later generations. However it is the costs that concern me as I dont have a lot of money for games right now not to mention more expensive ones plus hardware.

Gears Of War- seen only on PC's
COD2- not really impressive
Unreal Championship2k7- same as gears of war
Perfect Dark 0- has a poor framerate looks basic (will be improved for sure)
Killzone 2- prerendered

Although i wasnt to play all these games.
 
How about Resident Evil 5, or the next Zelda on the Revolution?

If these games are anything but fantastic, and at least as good as the very best on the pc, i'll eat my Mario hat.

//edit

Take away console's contribution to gaming and we're left with a rather small selection of titles that all cater for a few genres. PC gaming is very conservative when you think about, rarely offering something new, and hardly ever original. The fans want more of the same, but bigger, and with better graphics (a little harsh, but true nonetheless) - and that's what they get.
 
Warbie, you have to admit though, none of the new console games look that exciting. Remember the PS2? I was so hyped up about it I could hardly breathe. The first time I played the MGS2 demo I was gobsmacked. The first time I played Metroid prime I wanted to hug my Gamecube. The first time I played Wind Waker...

Yet what's there to look forward to now? the current gen of consoles were exciting becuse they actually had decent 3D graphics.. The next generation just have better graphics. All the really innotive games have come and gone :(

Warbie, let's hold hands and pray the Nintendo's revolution really will be revolutionary! Because it's the only console that hasn't already failed in my mind :( Plus, I know that Nintendo always put gameplay before graphics. /sigh...
 
Warbie said:
PC gaming is very conservative when you think about, rarely offering something new, and hardly ever original.
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Thank goodness for the likes of Spore*, then, for giving all of us cynics hope by keeping innovation alive on the PC. :D

*Recognized by virtually everyone who saw it at E3 this year as the most ambitious and wildly imaginative game on any platform.
 
He definately knows what he's talking about. Source is probably the best example of carried-over code in existence, ever, of all time.
 
Suicide42 said:
Warbie, you have to admit though, none of the new console games look that exciting. Remember the PS2? I was so hyped up about it I could hardly breathe. The first time I played the MGS2 demo I was gobsmacked. The first time I played Metroid prime I wanted to hug my Gamecube. The first time I played Wind Waker...

Yet what's there to look forward to now? the current gen of consoles were exciting becuse they actually had decent 3D graphics.. The next generation just have better graphics. All the really innotive games have come and gone :(

Warbie, let's hold hands and pray the Nintendo's revolution really will be revolutionary! Because it's the only console that hasn't already failed in my mind :( Plus, I know that Nintendo always put gameplay before graphics. /sigh...
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Dude, the other two consoles(PS3 and Revolution) won't be out for another year at the latest. A lot of things could change between now and launch. Each generation will have awesome games. If you would have asked someone back in the 80's when Nintendo's Mario came out if anything could top it, they probably would have said no. But look where we are now. As long as we have brilliant minds like Miyamoto, Will Wright, and Shinji Mikami (just to name a few) then we'll never run out of good games to play.

Come on guys, we're at the forefront of a gaming blitz by the three largest game developers in the world. Enjoy the moment.

I'm certain that each system will be a success.

:cheers:
 
satch919 said:
Come on guys, we're at the forefront of a gaming blitz by the three largest game developers in the world. Enjoy the moment.
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Amen. (Quoted for the remarkable insight shown given the ridiculous fanboy/PR mouthpiece pissing contests that have showered us all with splatters of gold.)

Some sort of weirdo gaming machismo takes a hold of people when it comes to their platform of choice and the console developers only fan the flames. Everyone get it through their head: Competition is good.

Thank you, Satch, for demonstrating such clear-headedness in a gaming world gone mad! :cheers:
 
Venmoch said:
Pfftt after playing round with surround sound and some nice speakers I can now safely say that sound is much more important in a game than graphics.
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:bounce: Me toO!
 
Grey Fox said:
And nintendo.
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You can't lump Nintendo into that group as all Nintendo has said is that a) it will be backwards compatible and b) it will be a revolution...

But multicore is the future, both on the consoles and the pcs and there is already software in development now that takes advantage of the power of both cores and it's software that definately looks next gen. The only thing is, and i think this is what Gabe is saying, is that there won't be a game that truely pushes either console to the max due to the complexity of the multicores themselves, unless you can get a programmer that fully understands the inner workings of the cores and what's going on i.e. something an engineer would only know, so they would either have to take a very long route of making the code very efficient with trial and error, or by slowing the code down by bloating it up to ensure that errors aren't really a problem.
 
Both the XBox and the PS2 have a high ratio of crap games to good ones. In terms of game play options I think the PC is right up there with the consoles and the PC does have a lot of games that possess good game play. The problem with PC gaming as far as I can see it is this "release now, patch later" mentality meaning PC games are often released with a lot of bugs and since there is no quality testing (done by the console manufacturer for consoles) some of these bugs can be show-stoppers.

I'm pretty sure PC gaming will have a resurgence though, like consoles are having a resurgence now. PC gaming was huge in the late eighties to mid nineties and then the Playstation was launched which tipped with balance back to consoles from the Nes days.
 
VictimOfScience said:
Amen. (Quoted for the remarkable insight shown given the ridiculous fanboy/PR mouthpiece pissing contests that have showered us all with splatters of gold.)

Some sort of weirdo gaming machismo takes a hold of people when it comes to their platform of choice and the console developers only fan the flames. Everyone get it through their head: Competition is good.

Thank you, Satch, for demonstrating such clear-headedness in a gaming world gone mad! :cheers:
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Cheers, my friend, cheers!

I believe in getting the most enjoyment out of every console. Each one has something to offer. I wouldn't have it any other way.
 
dekstar said:
What, In like your next life? Because that's how long it's probably going to be 'till you can get a decent game code working for them :p
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When I grow up...
 
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