Genn Beck wants to abolish public schools? LOL wat?

[Ridge]

More asshattery from public education:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/2...nts-recite-pledge-allegiance/?test=latestnews

When Sean Harrington entered his freshman year at Arlington High School, he noticed something peculiar: There were no American flags in the classrooms, and no one recited the Pledge of Allegiance.

So Harrington enlisted the aid of his fellow students, and now, three years later, they have succeeded in getting flags installed in the classrooms. But the pledge still will not be recited.

The Arlington, Mass., school committee has rejected the 17-year-old's request to allow students to voluntarily recite the Pledge of Allegiance, because some educators are concerned that it would be hard to find teachers willing to recite it, according to a report in the Arlington Patch.

Harrington had presented school officials with a petition signed by 700 people, along with letters of support from lawmakers including Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., and Sen. Joe Lieberman, I-Conn.

But the request to have the pledge recited failed when the committee's vote ended in a 3-3 tie.

"I was really heartbroken," Harrington told FOX News Radio. "It's hard to think that something so traditional in American society was turned down."

His fight has received quite a bit of support from the community. "When I was going to school, it was an honor and a privilege to pledge allegiance to the flag," Francis De Guglielmo, 55, told the Patch. He called the ban an "absolute travesty" and a "disgrace."

Harrington, who will be a senior in the fall, said he will continue to fight. "I'm not a person who quits and I don't back down. It's a very righteous cause and needs to be followed through until the end."

Some committee members voiced concerns about forcing people to do something that might violate their beliefs – including religious beliefs. Among the no-votes was committee member Leba Heigham.

"Patriotism is a very personal thing for all of us, but I do not think it is in the school committee's best interest to mandate that any of our employees recite the pledge," she told the Patch.

Harrington said the recitation would have been strictly voluntary.

"If we can't find one teacher who is willing to say the pledge, then the system we have is cracked," he told FOX News Radio, noting that a number of teachers signed his petition.

He said the school's ban on the pledge sends the wrong message. "It tells me that we've basically cast aside what our country is founded on," he said. "It's saying that we don't really care, and it's sad."

Arlington's superintendent of schools did not return a call for comment.

 

[Eejit]

Getting kids to pledge allegiance to a flag every school day of their childhood always struck me as supremely creepy.

 

[No Limit]

So out of all the different issues we brought up clearly the pledge of allegiance is what we need to concentrate on now. I also love how Fox "News" said some teachers said they wouldn't be able to find instructors that could recite it without actually naming any names or providing any quotes. Great journalism right thurr.

 

[Ridge]

Getting kids to pledge allegiance to a flag every school day of their childhood always struck me as supremely creepy.

Why not give kids the option to do it? They are just saying no because they dont think they can find a single teacher willing join them...

 

[CptStern]

who the **** cares?

not remembering the words makes you less of a patriot? not wanting to swear alligiance makes you less of a patriot somehow? it's like all you want is a bunch of bobbing heads who will tow the official "this is what it means to be american" line. perhaps they should privatise education so private schools can do whatever the hell they want like swearing alligiance to the koran or learning that your particular group is better than those other sub human groups

 

[No Limit]

Why not give kids the option to do it? They are just saying no because they dont think they can find a single teacher willing join them...

Are children banned from saying it? No, they can do it in their free time as they wish, they get 10-15 minute breaks between each class to do as they want. So what is your point exactly? That we should force all kids to take time out of their learning to recite a message with religious undertones?

How about we tell all people that work for the government that they have to recite it. Hell, why stop at that. Lets force all businesses to take time each day to recite the pledge. Clearly we don't have more important things to worry about.

 

[Ridge]

who the **** cares?

Clearly you do, thus you posting in here.

That we should force all kids to take time out of their learning to recite a message with religious undertones?

I hate religion's creeping hand hold on everything as much as you. But saying "Under God" doesnt get my underwear in a knot, like it does to you.

 

[Eejit]

Why not give kids the option to do it? They are just saying no because they dont think they can find a single teacher willing join them...

The kids have the option to, what you're saying is they should deny the teachers the option not to take part.

 

[No Limit]

The point is you want to force kids to say it. You originally claimed why not give them the choice implying these was no choice. They have every right to say it in their free time. You want to take that choice away and force them to.

 

[Ridge]

The kids have the option to, what you're saying is they should deny the teachers the option not to take part.

Teachers dont have to join in if they dont want to.

The point is you want to force kids to say it. You originally claimed why not give them the choice implying these was no choice. They have every right to say it in their free time. You want to take that choice away and force them to.

I graduated high school wayy back in 2004. We had the pledge in home room every day before morning announcements.

 

[No Limit]

I graduated high school wayy back in 2004. We had the pledge in home room every day before morning announcements.

And what in the world does that have to do with the point that you made? When I was first going to school in Poland we had to pray each morning, I guess that meas it would be ok to force everyone to pray based on what I did.

 

[CptStern]

I graduated high school wayy back in 2004. We had the pledge in home room every day before morning announcements.

homeschooling doesnt count :E


"..and justice for all ...amen.

Today's trip to the zoo is cancelled due to rain. in other news, our one and only student; Vimy* still hasnt cleaned his room"




Vimy* get it Ridge?

 

[Ridge]

And what in the world does that have to do with the point that you made? When I was first going to school in Poland we had to pray each morning, I guess that meas it would be ok to force everyone to pray based on what I did.

And again, it isnt forcing anyone to do anything. The people who want to do it, can, the others, well, they can continue with their jokes they made up in sex ed yesterday...

 

[No Limit]

And again, it isnt forcing anyone to do anything. The people who want to do it, can, the others, well, they can continue with their jokes they made up in sex ed yesterday...

But you are forcing them to do it as they will look awkward if they don't. you can justify forced prayer every morning much in the same way. Well they aren't forced to bless our lord, they can just sit down and shut up as 95% of the class does it.

Currently nobody is prevented from saying the pledge, they can do it on their own time whenever they wish. I'm still waiting for you to explain what exactly is wrong with that?

 

[CptStern]

to be fair you cant be the sole dissenting "I'm not going to be patriotic/praise the lord" voice because of this:

too many people get their panties in a bunch for nothing (ie: this thread)




this quote really is the epitome of the american political compass:

"Abortions for some, miniature American flags for others"

 

[Yuri]

I always assumed the pledge was something up to the schools themselves, and wasn't really written into any federal law. It is just a tradition, so you can fight to have it read on the announcements but if it loses, it loses. There's not much more to be said there.

 

[Ridge]

But you are forcing them to do it as they will look awkward if they don't. you can justify forced prayer every morning much in the same way. Well they aren't forced to bless our lord, they can just sit down and shut up as 95% of the class does it.

Currently nobody is prevented from saying the pledge, they can do it on their own time whenever they wish. I'm still waiting for you to explain what exactly is wrong with that?

Kids all know they look awkward constantly...why do you think they act like idiots? Because it makes them look "cool."

 

[No Limit]

Kids all know they look awkward constantly...why do you think they act like idiots? Because it makes them look "cool."

Currently nobody is prevented from saying the pledge, they can do it on their own time whenever they wish. I'm still waiting for you to explain what exactly is wrong with that?

 

[Krynn72]

Kids all know they look awkward constantly...why do you think they act like idiots? Because it makes them look "cool."

I don't get the point of your post.

Also, we said the pledge of allegiance in school as well... and it was technically not required. That didn't stop us from getting yelled at by teachers/librarians for being "disrespectful." My last year in High School me and a couple of my friends had to always go sit in a far off corner in the library (free period) so that we wouldn't be seen not saying it. It wasn't a matter of trying to "look cool." We simply didn't see the practicality of pledging our allegiance to our country every god damned day, especially since it would break out concentration while we were trying to do homework. Not that we were actually pledging our allegiance, since we had no concept of what it meant.

 

[Ridge]

Currently nobody is prevented from saying the pledge, they can do it on their own time whenever they wish. I'm still waiting for you to explain what exactly is wrong with that?

Doing it together, just like the pledge itself, is a sign of solidarity. Its something everybody involved can feel good about, in having pride is something common between them all.

 

[No Limit]

Doing it together, just like the pledge itself, is a sign of solidarity. Its something everybody involved can feel good about, in having pride is something common between them all.

Again, there is nothing preventing groups of people from getting together and saying the pledge. So what is your point?

But ok...So let's do it for prayer. Praying together that Jesus is your lord and savior shows solidarity and in having pride in something common between all of us. You agree this type of prayer during home period should be required, right?

 

[Ridge]

Not everybody follows the same religion, if at all. But you can bet that everyone in that school is an American...

 

[Krynn72]

Doing it together, just like the pledge itself, is a sign of solidarity. Its something everybody involved can feel good about, in having pride is something common between them all.

How can you presume to know what "everybody" feels when doing that? I never felt good about it when I did it. And what value does a "sign of solidarity" bring? I see no value in it.

And maybe not everyone likes America, despite living in the country. Theres certainly a number of things this country does that might make one re-consider pledging their allegiance to it.

 

[Ridge]

So then you shouldnt have to do it.

If they dont like America, they are free to leave.

 

[Sheepo]

Oh boy, a new dumb person.

 

[Krynn72]

If they dont like America, they are free to leave.

 

[No Limit]

Hey Krynn, can I have your image collection? You never disappoint in that department.

 

[15357]

Whats so wrong with taking a minute off your uneventful, worthless lives to pledge allegiance to something that you owe everything to? Even if it were forced.


I remember back in elementary school, I used to swear "to fulfill my duty for the nation and the Fatherland, my heart and body with unswerving loyalty" to the "proud flag". But we don't do it as often anymore, because it ate up too much time, because the national anthem had to come before, and whole lot of stuff we had to do for that simple vow of loyalty.

I used to envy the US, because they taught in public schools, every single day, to have at least one minute to think about what your country meant to you. With your pledge of allegiance, you are subtly conditioning yourself everyday to care about an abstract thing - loyalty to your country.

I don't understand why you wouldn't do this. Maybe my brain works differently. I did stay in the US during August 2001 ~ December 2002 due to my father's job, so I know what the pledge of allegiance is because I went to one of your public schools. I never really did it, once I understood what it meant. I had already swore to fulfill my sacred duty to my own country, and it seemed wrong to swear allegiance to some other nation. But you guys aren't in my type of situation, you guys aren't being forced to swear allegiance to a foreign power. Is taking one stupid minute to reflect upon the ideals of your country, and the freedoms of man that it protects, so bothersome and so hard that you would refuse to do this?

 

[Ridge]

scratch that

 

[Krynn72]

With your pledge of allegiance, you are subtly conditioning yourself everyday to care about an abstract thing - loyalty to your country.

I don't understand why you wouldn't do this. Maybe my brain works differently.

Considering you said the first part as if it were a good thing, yes, your brain does work differently. Very differently.

Hey Krynn, can I have your image collection? You never disappoint in that department.

Not enough time in the world for me to upload the whole thing. At least, not on my current connection.

 

[Ridge]

When did patriotism and pride become such a bad thing?

 

[Krynn72]

The same time religion did. They are all means through which people persuade others into making irrational decisions.

 

[Kinslayer]

When did patriotism and pride become such a bad thing?

2:30 AM rant time.

The pledge isn't about patriotism and pride, it's about pledging allegiance to your country. Like Numbers said, this isn't necessarily a bad thing - except for the fact that you're essentially (symbolically of course, but some people care) giving your balls over to your government. The country was founded upon NOT giving your balls to your government, but instead holding them accountable for what they do. Pledging allegiance "to the flag" is an idiotic gesture, for the flag will always represent the government rather than the people.

I pledge allegiance
To the flag
Of the United States of America
And to the Republic
For which it stands
One nation
Under God
Indivisible
For liberty and justice for all

The line I have particular distaste for is the "Under God" line. No, it's not because I'm nonreligious - my main problem with it is that it was established as a way to "root out" communism. The "Under God" line didn't exist until the Cold War, in which it was put in so the government could create fear against the godless Communists.

You should never pledge allegiance to your country; your country should pledge allegiance to the people it serves. I'm not saying the people should rise up and kill people because a new tax was introduced; I'm saying it's a stupid idea to pledge allegiance to a non-totalitarian government.

edit: holy shit that was more nonsensical than i thought it would be

 

[15357]

Never differentiate the State and the People. The two are not enemies, do not have to be enemies, will never be enemies, for they are one.

See the thing is, the Flag of a sovereign State, does not single out the things that it represents. The Flag is a representative of not only your government, but also the people, and the territories, and the laws, culture, and everything that you believe encompasses what your country is.'

It's not a stupid idea to pledge allegiance to a non-totalitarian government. Actually, you should actively do so, seeing as how its not totalitarian.

The pledge itself shouldn't bother you so much. In the few seconds you stand up and stare at the flag, you are showing respect to everything that your country has stood for. Sure, I guess it could be a matter of freedom of choice, and ideological beliefs, but since your country also seeks to protect those liberties, is there a reason not to pledge allegiance to the freedoms of Man?

 

[Krynn72]

Never differentiate the State and the People. The two are not enemies, do not have to be enemies, will never be enemies, for they are one.

HAHAHAHAHA

Numbers, you cwazy.

 

[Sparta]

Numbers is the State and the People of my heart.

Whatever that means.

 

[Eejit]

When did patriotism and pride become such a bad thing?

Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious. And I think quite a lot of americans cross the line from pride in their country to hubris.

 

[V-Man339]

Frankly I don't see how anyone in America manages to take Glenn seriously anymore.
Earlier he was just acting crazy, now he's dived into self-parody and straight over the edge of having refuge in audacity.

Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious. And I think quite a lot of Americans cross the line from pride in their country to hubris.

I'm fairly certain most of us think that boils down to celebrate 4th of July and wave around Chinese-made American flags instead of practicing our right to freedom and voting and whatnot, so we try to do stupid shit instead.
That's my best guess. :|