German teen shoots/kills 15 at school

[Eejit]

OMG you Liberal! He could as easily have killed all those people with a pitchfork!! Why don't we ban PITCHFORKS?!!1

 

[knut]

"before police shot him to death, state officials said."
Yeah what, they're going to ****ing shoot him to life?

They could have shot him to injured -.-

Bam!

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

15 kills? Press F7 to call in the chopper.


Some do.

lol'd

 

[Ennui]

That and ready access to guns.

Let's be real. I support gun control and I think they're inherently evil in nature. However this is merely the manifestation/symptom of larger underlying social problems. People don't need guns to kill others - it just makes it easier and probably more deadly. The real issue here is why did this kid feel like he had to kill all those people and himself in the first place, not necessarily how easy it was for him to do it or how accessible guns are.

 

[Vegeta897]

100 million? that's more than the entire german population

... why are you just talking about the German population? What the hell does that have to do with his point?

Stern why did you even bring up that argument in the OP...

 

[<RJMC>]

isnt germany a country whit strict gun laws?

 

[Shakermaker]

isnt germany a country whit strict gun laws?

Fairly strict, even for European standards.

Great postcount btw

 

[mortiz-Redux]

Yeah, but what was his K/D ratio? If he died 30 times it's not that impressive.

Joking aside this is messed up, there seems to be a definite pattern though in the types of people that do this.

 

[Tagaziel]

Types of people. Not gun laws.

RJMC's question amuses me - whenever there's a school shootings, gun ownership advocates state draw a connection between gun control and higher crime rates, but whenever those opposing proliferation of firearms draw the same connection between gun control and lower crime rates, the connection suddenly disappears.

 

[xcellerate]

I still think it's funny, cars kill 4x as many people per year as guns...yet when somebody dies in a car crash NOBODY wants to make mandatory driving classes or stricter licensing laws.

People just accept it because if they wanted to do something to fix it, it might mean they'd have to work to become a better driver. It's so easy to go, "hey I don't own any guns...therefore if we ban guns, it doesn't effect ME and it still might do something! Brilliant! BAN FIREARMS!! **** YEA!!!"

Funny how that works huh?

Hey! I don't smoke or drink, and thousands of people die each year from lung cancer and drunk driving, therefore let's ban all tobacco and alcohol!! **** YEA!!!

 

[Asuka]

the last mass shooting at a school in germany was back in 2002


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090311/ap_on_re_eu/eu_germany_school_attack

how long before video games are blamed?


...oh and for the gun nuts:



no amount of gun control laws would have prevented that except one: complete ban on guns

Ya go do that, ban guns so the ****ed up people can only have them. Genius.

 

[Vegeta897]

What great posts in here, I think they have made Stern afraid to post again, in his own thread no less. Awesome.

 

[Sheepo]

Man, really makes you think how you've only got one shot at life. Hope they didn't waste theirs.

/cloaks

 

[mastag]

What a piece of shit.

 

[xcellerate]

What great posts in here, I think they have made Stern afraid to post again, in his own thread no less. Awesome.

or he's been doing research to create the super-post that will textually rape everyone in here.

 

[CR0M]

The thing that makes me angry the most about people blaming video games for murders and crap is that for me , games relieve stress and anger and most people I know agree. In fact most of the time with school shootings and things the shooters are either mentally unstable or have simply been pushed way over the edge by things such as bullying.

Indeed. Games are blamed by those who never play them, people in a civilised society have to have a scapegoat - and what better than something they don't understand. Clearly the guy was burning up, I very much doubt he was playing out a delusional fantasy as the media would have everyone believe. More likely a long term festering issue combined with a familiarity around guns and their convenient availability to be used as his 'solution'. It's true that availability of weapons is a factor when events like this happen, but if it hadn't been a gun, it would've been a knife. If not a knife, a baseball bat or pipe. The weapons are never the problem, they are just dumb inanimate objects, it's always the person behind them. It's easier to blame tools than admit to ourselves that our own species isn't as perfect as we make ourselves out to be.

I bet if they traced his ancestry back there would be evidence of schizophrenia somewhere along the line.

 

[Shakermaker]

German Interior Minister Sch?uble just announced that his country won't introduce stricter gun laws because of the shooting in Winnenden yesterday. He did say though he wants a ban on "killer games". No source yet; got this of a Dutch newswire.

 

[Mech Man]

German Interior Minister Sch?uble just announced that his country won't introduce stricter gun laws because of the shooting in Winnenden yesterday. He did say though he wants a ban on "killer games". No source yet; got this of a Dutch newswire.

[Sarcasm activate] That's the best course of action imo , its not the ability to easily get a fire arm that leads to killings , its video games [sarcasm deactivate].

 

[CptStern]

the weapon(s) used are part of the problem when they are readily accessible. legal gun ownership in this particular case directly facilitated the deaths of 15 people

the attacker's father belonged to a gun club and owned 16 guns, one of which was missing.

the media could easily use this opportunity to hang the issue of gun ownership from the highest rafters but instead focus on video games because there's not as many toes to step on as there would be with the gun industry and their supporters


video games are always the scape goat because a. the perp is a teen (never see video games blamed when people shoot up the post office) b. the video game industry doesnt have a voice to defend themselves much less pressure media to look in another direction like the gun lobby does so effectively c. gamers are either spineless or couldnt care less and rarely mount any sort of protest to negative portrayal in the media in comparison to say a group like the NRA or the Gay and Lesbian Defamation league ..we've got bupkis and most of us dont care or dont care enough to actually do something about it

 

[Shakermaker]

Taxing videogames also helps against knife crimes: LINKEH.

 

[CptStern]

ummmm shouldnt they be taxing knives instead? I'm not the Primordial Minister but damn that just seems so stupidly obvious

 

[Shakermaker]

ummmm shouldnt they be taxing knives instead? I'm not the Primordial Minister but damn that just seems so stupidly obvious

Making knives more expensive or harder to buy won't stop stabbings. Taxing games or making them illegal does! Oh Stern, you're so naive.

 

[CptStern]

we dont we just set fire to EA Headquarters? I'm all for bludgeoning John Carmack to death

STOP <stab> MAKING <eye poke> VIOLENT <curb stomp> VIDEO GAMES! <finishes him with columbian necktie>

 

[Vegeta897]

the weapon(s) used are part of the problem when they are readily accessible. legal gun ownership in this particular case directly facilitated the deaths of 15 people

Facilitated, sure. That's a fair statement, for this case.

the media could easily use this opportunity to hang the issue of gun ownership from the highest rafters but instead focus on video games because there's not as many toes to step on as there would be with the gun industry and their supporters

Since when do we care about what the media can or can't do to spin a story? How is it relevant at all?

I think what you said in the OP is still bull:

no amount of gun control laws would have prevented that except one: complete ban on guns

There's not even a way you can predict whether or not it would have happened. Keep in mind that he DID break laws to use that gun, he is not old enough already. Why do you assume that he's okay with breaking some laws, but not others, if there was a complete ban on guns?

 

[xcellerate]

and who's to say that if couldn't find guns, he'd just go to google.com and make a bomb for his backpack?

 

[CptStern]

and who's to say that if couldn't find guns, he'd just go to google.com and make a bomb for his backpack?

or he could have gone to the bank withdrawn $100 in quarters stuffed them in a sock and clubbed people like baby freakin seals



but he didnt: he went for what was most convenient and what he knew how to use; his father's legal gun collection...again easy access

 

[Eejit]

Or a pitchfork.

 

[CptStern]

or a rubber band + paper airplane with a pin stuck to the end

 

[CR0M]

Or the Thumb Strike of Death.

Availability is the primary reason certain weapons are used, this guy wouldn't have shot anyone but for the fact that his father had an armoury in the house.

In the UK, handguns and semi-autos are illegal. Period. Of course there are illegal guns in the country and people do get shot, but the majority of armed attacks are with knives, as they are easier to come by. In 1987, Michael Ryan flipped out and killed 16 random people and wounded 15 others in one morning. He owned a collection of semi-automatic rifles and handguns, legally at that time, which he was obsessed with. Not long after the shooting, a gun law was passed in England that made semi-autos illegal. For 22 years, to this day, there have been no more mass killing sprees with firearms. Take away the availability and it massively reduces the risk, it dumbfounds me how people still don't get this. I guess living in an environment where gun use is normal, the effects of having none available are a totally alien concept...

Also, I remember as a result of this shooting, the Rambo films got a large part of the blame and were either not allowed to be aired or cencored to hell for a decade afterwards. Films or games, it's all the same to the media. And Vegeta, the media is the sheepdog that herds a dumbass population exactly where it wants them to go, which they happily do without question in this country. That's why they are relevant.

 

[Vegeta897]

And Vegeta, the media is the sheepdog that herds a dumbass population exactly where it wants them to go, which they happily do without question in this country. That's why they are relevant.

What does it have to do with whether the availability of firearms are or are not to blame?

 

[CR0M]

What does it have to do with whether the availability of firearms are or are not to blame?

I believe I answered the question:

the media could easily use this opportunity to hang the issue of gun ownership from the highest rafters but instead focus on video games because there's not as many toes to step on as there would be with the gun industry and their supporters

Since when do we care about what the media can or can't do to spin a story? How is it relevant at all?

and not the separate and completely different one you are now asking.

The media is a very powerful tool that could effectively demonize gun ownership instead of targeting irrelevant factors like games and films. If it was made to. It's called propaganda.

 

[Vegeta897]

It's the same question. I was just being more specific, since apparently I had to be.

Again, demonizing gun ownership does not in any way affect whether or not the kid did the crime because he had access to guns. Nor would it affect any future scenario along the same lines.

 

[Sheepo]

I have a gun IE: I kill people

 

[Sledgehammer]

All of these school shooters, they get their guns legally. They simply aren't the kinds of people who want to acquire an illegal Kalashnikov rifle. That's why they happen more in the US, in my opinion.

 

[CptStern]

I have:

a baseball bat
kitchen knives
golf club
hockey stick
handgun


I just caught my girlfriend cheating on me with the milkman ..which weapon am I gonna grab?


"hmmmm kinda hard to out run bullets "

<picks up gun>



I have:

a baseball bat
kitchen knives
golf club
hockey stick
handgun


I want to end it all because my puppy ran away, which weapon will I choose:

"I'm not big on bludeoning myself to death ..what if I fail? I'm not that hungry to eat 145 advils ...hmmm a handgun is pretty fool proof and I wont accidentily miss an artery ..in my temple"


<picks up gun>



I have:

a baseball bat
kitchen knives
golf club
hockey stick
handgun


you people have have been abusing me for too long:

"I like the idea of bludeoning everyone to death ...but what if they get away while I'm pulpifying Sally in accounting's head? also it's messy and what if they grab it out of my hand? ....hmmm hard to outrun bullets"


<picks up gun>

 

[Vegeta897]

All of these school shooters, they get their guns legally.

What? That is completely untrue. Not even in this article was it acquired legally.

 

[CR0M]

It's the same question.

No it isn't.

Nor would it affect any future scenario along the same lines.

There wouldn't BE a future scenario along the same lines, is the point.

 

[Vegeta897]

What, demonizing gun ownership makes kids not want to shoot up schools?

:/

Like Ennui said, the mental stability of the kids is to blame here, not what weapons they have at their disposal.

 

[CR0M]

What, demonizing gun ownership makes kids not want to shoot up schools?

:/

wow you are in an argumentative mood today. I'll type this real slow for you:
No, demonizing gun ownership does not make kids not want to shoot up schools, it takes guns out of the equation thus not giving said kids the opportunity to do so. Like Stern said. I am beginning to suspect you have a large cabinet full of locked and loaded semi-automatic weapons at home, John J.

And yes, although the mental stability of the shooter is the root problem, the availability of the tools to carry out mass murder is a huge factor that you can't just dismiss. It isn't that black and white unfortunately.

 

[Vegeta897]

wow you are in an argumentative mood today. I'll type this real slow for you:

Well I'm not being mean to you.

I am beginning to suspect you have a large cabinet full of locked and loaded semi-automatic weapons at home, John J.

Mmk... what? Why say this? I'm not saying anything about you personally. I nor anyone I know owns a gun.

And yes, although the mental stability of the shooter is the root problem, the availability of the tools to carry out mass murder is a huge factor that you can't just dismiss. It isn't that black and white unfortunately.

I really don't think you can make guns completely unavailable, even with a complete ban. There are already so many guns out there in America. They're not going to just disappear.