German teen shoots/kills 15 at school

Vegeta897 said:
I really don't think you can make guns completely unavailable, even with a complete ban. There are already so many guns out there in America. They're not going to just disappear.
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Correct. You can never get rid of guns completely. Especially if you're coming from an American situation. But that doesn't mean you should make an effort. Less guns / low availability equals a lower chance on horrible incidents like these happening. It's simple math.
 
Yeah, but at the cost of pissing off lots of gun owners.

Not that I personally care, but I don't want to be selfish here.

It's like someone in this thread said, you're willing to ban guns because you are not a gun owner.
 
Vegeta897 said:
Yeah, but at the cost of pissing off lots of gun owners.

Not that I personally care, but I don't want to be selfish here.

It's like someone in this thread said, you're willing to ban guns because you are not a gun owner.
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Yeah, yeah, I know. The whole frontier spirit, being able to defend yourself, yada yada yada. You hit the nail right on the head though: it requires a mentality change. Stuff like this doesn't happen overnight.



Oh and btw: it seems that the Germans aren't overreacting: CLICKEH.

Joachim von Gottberg said:
Whoever points denounces addiction to computer games or an infatuation with weapons as the cause for these kinds of terrible acts hinders the search for the complex problems and reasons that precede such crimes.
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We should ban everything that could kill someone.

That includes your mouth that could chew someones throat out as well as your hands that can choke someone. Also the legs because you can kick someone in the head and break their neck.
 
That argument really isn't the best anti-gun control argument ever.
 
Vegeta897 said:
Yeah, but at the cost of pissing off lots of gun owners.
Not that I personally care, but I don't want to be selfish here.
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Putting the feelings of gun owners before firearm murder victims and their families is slightly more selfish, wouldn't you agree..?
 
CR0M said:
Putting the feelings of gun owners before firearm murder victims and their families is slightly more selfish, wouldn't you agree..?
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That's not the most sound of logic. It's like saying you're putting the feelings of people who need to get to work on time before car accident victims and their families. Obviously an example with no possible debate value because it's obvious what takes precedence, but it should demonstrate what I mean.

And that would have nothing to do with selfishness. It's not in my own interest to keep guns unbanned, or unbanned. It completely does not matter to me, as I said, so that would have nothing to do with me only thinking about myself.

In fact, if I was truly being selfish, I'd say ban guns on the off chance that guns being unbanned causes my being killed by someone who went crazy and was able to kill me because he had legal access to firearms.
 
Corp. Sheepo said:
Man, really makes you think how you've only got one shot at life. Hope they didn't waste theirs.

/cloaks
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Darkside55 said:
15 kills? Press F7 to call in the chopper.


Some do.
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Am I the only one here who didn't find these funny?

xcellerate said:
I still think it's funny, cars kill 4x as many people per year as guns...yet when somebody dies in a car crash NOBODY wants to make mandatory driving classes or stricter licensing laws.
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"Nobody wants to make mandatory driving classes?" What kind of screwed up state do you live in?

In no way are those car-related deaths excusable, but the sole purpose of guns is to inflict pain and injury to someone else (animal or otherwise). They'd ban guns because of its purpose as a weapon, combined with its accessibility.
 
CR0M said:
*sigh*

It's your logic, clearly put in your previous post. :upstare:
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I meant the way you described it. I never said anything about putting the feelings of gun owners before those of victims to gun crimes. You did. And I explained that this is a silly way to put it, with my driving example.

I believe that banning guns will have such an insignificant impact on gun crimes that it is not worth pissing off that many people and taking away a freedom we've had since the country was founded.
 
I'm only seeing your side of the "debate" with vegeta (I have him on ignore due to his overabundant tendency to stupid) but I can say from experience that he doesnt even know what he's talking about ..he over uses the bait and switch tactic and gets lost in his own argument.
 
I have him on ignore too, I'm just imagining what he would say and then replying...
 
Blocking people, on these forums?

You're killing the community!
 
CR0M said:
I have him on ignore too, I'm just imagining what he would say and then replying...
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ya I do that too ..he's much more hilarious in my mind than in real life ...he also speaks spanish, is an accomplished tap dancer, sings falsetto 2 full octaves above any man in history (who wasnt a eunuch) and creates the most beautiful macrome plant holders you've ever seen in your life ...did you know he also has the world largest Liberace stage costume collection? also was once rumoured to be a distant cousin of the czarina Alexandra Fyodorovna although DNA tests have concluded he's of tartar decent
 
I'm stalking you Stern... lolololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololol

With those delusions in your mind, it all becomes clear how you can think so, too.

lololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololol
 
CptStern said:
sigh, if only more people followed your example ...this thread would be empty!
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You were the one who introduced the gun argument right in the OP.

Only to have yourself get raped by almost everyone in here who had something to say about it.
 
You know he can't hear you Veg, what's the point? You're firing into the wind.
 
Eejit said:
You know he can't hear you Veg, what's the point? You're firing into the wind.
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It's always been demonstrated before in the past that he clicks on the link to view the post before making some snarky comment that he couldn't see what he said and is imagining what he said.
 
Really? You sure he isn't just shooting his mouth off?
 
Eejit said:
Really? You sure he isn't just shooting his mouth off?
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Oh you know Stern. He just can't avoid an argument, somewhere, anywhere, even though he says how much he hates pointless arguments. Just like I can't avoid the desire to stalk his posts.

Excuse me... Time to see where he's off to next!
 
Vegeta897 said:
You were the one who introduced the gun argument right in the OP. Only to have yourself get raped by almost everyone in here who had something to say about it.
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Almost everyone? are you for real?? 4 don't think banning would work. The only one doing the sustained 'raping' has been you. If I were a mod I'd slap a warning on your ass for trolling.
 
Are you kidding me? I'm the troll?

Maybe you should look again at the arguments between you and I. You were the one making personal attacks or heavy sarcasm or involving anything other than the argument at hand.

And Stern's post in this thread after our argument is the troll post.
 
There are lots of threads here that are troll threads.
 
I see and acknowledge the connection between firearms, and these massed shootings. It's obvious.


But a lot people seem to think if guns are completely taken out of the picture, this kind of thing would not happen. And I just do not believe that. If not guns, then crossbows, or home made explosives. If people want to kill other people, they will do it.
 
Top Secret said:
I see and acknowledge the connection between firearms, and these massed shootings. It's obvious.


But a lot people seem to think if guns are completely taken out of the picture, this kind of thing would not happen. And I just do not believe that. If not guns, then crossbows, or home made explosives. If people want to kill other people, they will do it.
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it's not that it wouldnt happen, it's that it would happen less frequently. Canada has had mass shootings but only a very tiny fraction in comparison to the US. It's not just mass shootings, these are relatively low onbody count in comparison to say domestic violence where 77% of all women murdered by their spouses are killed with firearms. the figure in canada is closer to 12%. then there's suicide and accidental injuries

estimating 52,447 deliberate and 23,237 accidental non-fatal gunshot injuries in the United States during 2000.[6] The majority of gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides,[7] with firearms used in 16,907 suicides in the United States during 2004
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http://www.harvardscience.harvard.e...ticles/researchers-link-firearms-suicide-rate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache...an+any+other+firearm&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca
 
Vegeta897 said:
It's like someone in this thread said, you're willing to ban guns because you are not a gun owner.
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I plan on becoming a gun owner as soon as I have the money to buy a decent handgun, but that's not going to stop me from supporting gun control nor from handing my gun over happily if this country ever gets its head on straight about gun ownership.
 
My bad, I was incorrectly implying that all gun owners would have been unhappy about it.
The point is that there are plenty of people who would NOT be happy about handing over their firearms. You are not one of those people, so it doesn't really contradict anything. I like guns too, and if I had the money I'd probably buy one at some point just for the cool factor, but like you I wouldn't mind if they were banned. Hence, we are not the people I was referring to.
 
I've been wanting to go to the range / class to learn how to properly use a gun.
 
Veg..you would buy a gun for the cool factor? Explain this to me, I really don't get why you would want to buy a gun for the cool factor. Are you going to be going around showing off to your friends or something? Not trying to start an argument, but I don't understand that logic.
 
If I were to buy guns for the cool factor, they would be well made replica airsoft guns of the type that I want.

I would kill to have a full metal and wood AK47.
 
The local newspaper stated that he was a "very good player of Counter-Strike".

They also claimed that CS was a game of "killing as many people as quickly as possible". Which is far from correct, as long as you play the official gamemodes.
 
Top Secret said:
I see and acknowledge the connection between firearms, and these massed shootings. It's obvious.


But a lot people seem to think if guns are completely taken out of the picture, this kind of thing would not happen. And I just do not believe that. If not guns, then crossbows, or home made explosives. If people want to kill other people, they will do it.
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They'd happen a hell of a lot less. I can't remember the last time Australia had any school shootings whatsoever.
 
Evo said:
Veg..you would buy a gun for the cool factor? Explain this to me, I really don't get why you would want to buy a gun for the cool factor. Are you going to be going around showing off to your friends or something? Not trying to start an argument, but I don't understand that logic.
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Yeah, and then I'd bring it in to school for show and tell.

Do you think I'm a ****ing idiot?

I like guns, they look cool and although I've never fired one I'm interested in it just as a harmless interest like any other.

They're too damn expensive though for the enjoyment payoff so I doubt I'd ever buy one.

Was into airsoft for a while but even that is expensive.
 
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