Give me ONE reason...

[blahblahblah]

Aside from Neutrino, I haven't seen any really valid points made.

Neutrino, if you want to have social security when you retire, you want to privatize it.

 

[othello]

You ignored the point. They haven't found WMDs. They have found the capability to make them at some point in time, but that is not what this administration claimed.

wrong. wmds have been found. 20 barrels of sarin gas is a wmd. hell, ONE barrel is a WMD. stockpiles of biological and chemical weapons have been found... those are WMDs.

so wheres your outrage at clinton who called for a regime change in iraq for 8 years, all the while claiming saddam had nukes/WMD's yet never did sh*t about it? or john kerry for that matter, who claimed the above, as well, for the last 10 years?

I wouldn't have a problem if they had just come out and said, "we want to take Saddam down because he is not letting the inspectors do their job". But instead they assumed there would be WMDs, and so far there haven't been. I don't like being lied to.

nobody assumed... the decision was made off the intelligence available at the time of the decision. intelligence from the russians, the britains, the french, the germans, the australians, the italians, the Clinton administration, and the CIA. WMD's was the one issue that everyone agreed on. again, WMD's have been found, just not to the extent we were told.

but is that bush's fault? not in the slightest. in fact, 4 independent sources all concluded that bush did NOT lie and that the intel he received was inaccurate and/or faulty. the senate intelligence committee, the 9/11 commission, vladimir putin and russian intelligence, and lord butler's british investigation.

 

[othello]

btw people, bare with me... im going through each post individually, if that isnt obvious yet.

 

[othello]

Actually, othello. You're right and wrong. Statistically, Americans (Sadly) don't want to allow gay marriage, but they do want to allow it in another form that still allows them all of the benifits of being married. (Tax breaks, etc etc)

http://www.pollingreport.com/civil.htm

i didnt say that, so how am i wrong? the fact remains, the majority of the american people support a ban on gay marriages. thats all i was saying.

You are aware that there are two kinds of smarts, correct? Knowledge, and Intelligence. And no, they are not the same..

very true, so kerry has a lack of knowledge, and some intelligence? bush was a C student at yale (look how far 'daddys' reach got him there :upstare: )... even that is commendable, imo. granted, not as impressive as clinton being a rhodes scholar. however, even with all his intellect, clinton was a miserable failure as a president. so whats the point? the point is that a site like bushisms as absolutley no bearing on the presidents intellect or not...

 

[Owskie]

Give me one reason why i shouldn't vote to re-elect george bush... in your own words, not a copy and paste job. come on... give me one valid reason.

I'll tell you why, he sent thousands to their deaths (and to hell if your christian) based on a lie, he puts religion before government, hes trying to take away civil liberties, he broke the geneva convention, He RUINED the economy, Homeland security is basically dead as well.. He pushed away most of our allies, .. and ill give your the fact, that the war IS going on. Bush - i like him as a family man, but not as the leader of our country.. He cant even hold himself in debate, he is very tempermental and unprofessional .. interupting during debates with anger. I dont like kerry either ok? but i think he would do a better job than bush, if only slightly. If anyone can start world war 3 its bush. You may call kerry a flip flop.. ok right? whoop.. bush flip flops more than a fish out of water.. current example. Bush said on record " I dont care where Osama is.. now during the debates in his fumbling attemps at speaking he says we are still going after him.. All politicians lie, all politicians flip flop, its what they do to try to sway america .... Also very discomforting to know that bush didnt raise anti-terrorism funding but lowered it after being warned about possible terrorist attacks to america (not from farenheit 9/11).. He also thinks that everyones moral's should be the same as his .. his religious morals (fake christian if i ever saw one btw) like trying to ban gay marriage, and abortions.. I am for gay marriage, and i am pro choice because thats what America is all about.. Though i am pro-choice , i am against the decision of abortion.. Not everyones morals are the same, people should stop trying to control everyones lives.. its sad. Theres a time when you got to let people live their lives and you live your own, your morals and ideals are not necesarrily the same as your neighbor, and your morals and ideals should NOT control their life.. There is a seperation of church and state and bush has been crossing that line into what i said above.. thats why i think you shouldnt vote for bush...
nothing was copy and pasted.. thanks

~jordan

 

[Owskie]

i didnt say that, so how am i wrong? the fact remains, the majority of the american people support a ban on gay marriages. thats all i was saying.



very true, so kerry has a lack of knowledge, and some intelligence? bush was a C student at yale (look how far 'daddys' reach got him there :upstare: )... even that is commendable, imo. granted, not as impressive as clinton being a rhodes scholar. however, even with all his intellect, clinton was a miserable failure as a president. so whats the point? the point is that a site like bushisms as absolutley no bearing on the presidents intellect or not...

Clinton was an awesome president when he kept it in his pants
imo

 

[DoctorGordon]

Finally i step into the heated debate...

Now:
He doesnt support stem cell research. SCs can end up saving a ton of lives by curing a ton of diseases. Also, we can use stem cells to grow limbs and rebuild spinal cords. He doesnt allow it cause of ethical issues...i've never heard of something more stupid.

Furthermore, this guy is a complete idiot:
Cant talk right
Practices his religion too heavily
Doesnt allow drugs from canada

Hes not smart, hes stupid, matter of fact

Who voted to have a comedian run the country anyways???

 

[CyberSh33p]

i didnt say that, so how am i wrong? the fact remains, the majority of the american people support a ban on gay marriages. thats all i was saying.

where do you get this majority from? she me the statistics, I know very few people who support a ban on gay marraiges. show me where you get this "most" figure from.

and whats the point of this thread? you've been given dozens upon dozens of reasons all of which you avoided and dodged with skill equalling that of bush himself. obviously your opinion isn't going to change.

 

[othello]

thats not 'terrorism', now you're just using buzzwords...

?

the last part was in reference to 9/11. speaking of saddam and 9/11, how about the fact that iraq harbored members of al-qaeda before and after 9/11, in some cases provinding shelter and a place to 'train'? or how, on the one-year anniversary of 9/11, saddam publically called for an increase in suicide bombings in israel and abroad, even financially rewarding the families of the fools that carried it out?

He graduated from harvard eh?

yep.

 

[Neutrino]

Aside from Neutrino, I haven't seen any really valid points made.

Neutrino, if you want to have social security when you retire, you want to privatize it.

In my statement on the privatization of social security I'm really not commenting on whether it would be a good idea or not. I'm really a bit undecided on my views about social security in general and where the government needs to go with it. Personally, I'm not counting on it for my retirement money. I'll be making other investments to insure my future income.

However, my point about Bush's plan is that I don't think the government can afford a move like that right now. We're at record deficit levels and the economic reports I've read seem to indicate it will probably get worse. Throwing in a program like that at this time is just not practical, and is mostly wishful thinking by Bush in my opinion. I also don't like the fact that Bush criticizing the costs of Kerry's policies while he himself is doing much the same thing. I think both candidates promise too much when it comes to the economy, but I support Kerry's plan more. His single biggest expenditure that I know of is his health insurance plan. But that would be mostly offset by repealing the taxes to those that make $200,000 and above, something Bush won't do.

Also, although Kerry's healthcare plan is a large expense I think it is worth it for two reasons. First, because it would be offset by the repealing of those taxes and second, because it would result in healthcare for over half of the 45 million people who do not currently have it. But that's another tangent entirely.

 

[blahblahblah]

In my statement on the privatization of social security I'm really not commenting on whether it would be a good idea or not. I'm really a bit undecided on my views about social security in general and where the government needs to go with it. Personally, I'm not counting on it for my retirement money. I'll be making other investments to insure my future income.

However, my point about Bush's plan is that I don't think the government can afford a move like that right now. We're at record deficit levels and the economic reports I've read seem to indicate it will probably get worse. Throwing in a program like that at this time is just not practical, and is mostly wishful thinking by Bush in my opinion. I also don't like the fact that Bush criticizing the costs of Kerry's policies while he himself is doing much the same thing. I think both candidates promise too much when it comes to the economy, but I support Kerry's plan more. His single biggest expenditure that I know of is his health insurance plan. But that would be mostly offset by repealing the taxes to those that make $200,000 and above, something Bush won't do.

Also, although Kerry's healthcare plan is a large expense I think it is worth it for two reasons. First, because it would be offset by the repealing of those taxes and second, because it would result in healthcare for over half of the 45 million people who do not currently have it. But that's another tangent entirely.

I largely think that a tax hike would be helpful to pay for these programs. Even after repealing the "wealthy tax reduction".

I'm in the process of filling out my mail-in ballot right now. I'll have my decision made within the next 10 minutes.

 

[Owskie]

I'll tell you why, he sent thousands to their deaths (and to hell if your christian) based on a lie, he puts religion before government, hes trying to take away civil liberties, he broke the geneva convention, He RUINED the economy, Homeland security is basically dead as well.. He pushed away most of our allies, .. and ill give your the fact, that the war IS going on. Bush - i like him as a family man, but not as the leader of our country.. He cant even hold himself in debate, he is very tempermental and unprofessional .. interupting during debates with anger. I dont like kerry either ok? but i think he would do a better job than bush, if only slightly. If anyone can start world war 3 its bush. You may call kerry a flip flop.. ok right? whoop.. bush flip flops more than a fish out of water.. current example. Bush said on record " I dont care where Osama is.. now during the debates in his fumbling attemps at speaking he says we are still going after him.. All politicians lie, all politicians flip flop, its what they do to try to sway america .... Also very discomforting to know that bush didnt raise anti-terrorism funding but lowered it after being warned about possible terrorist attacks to america (not from farenheit 9/11).. He also thinks that everyones moral's should be the same as his .. his religious morals (fake christian if i ever saw one btw) like trying to ban gay marriage, and abortions.. I am for gay marriage, and i am pro choice because thats what America is all about.. Though i am pro-choice , i am against the decision of abortion.. Not everyones morals are the same, people should stop trying to control everyones lives.. its sad. Theres a time when you got to let people live their lives and you live your own, your morals and ideals are not necesarrily the same as your neighbor, and your morals and ideals should NOT control their life.. There is a seperation of church and state and bush has been crossing that line into what i said above.. thats why i think you shouldnt vote for bush...
nothing was copy and pasted.. thanks

~jordan

nader > kerry > bush

 

[bliink]

?

the last part was in reference to 9/11. speaking of saddam and 9/11, how about the fact that iraq harbored members of al-qaeda before and after 9/11, in some cases provinding shelter and a place to 'train'? or how, on the one-year anniversary of 9/11, saddam publically called for an increase in suicide bombings in israel and abroad, even financially rewarding the families of the fools that carried it out?

I was responding to your statement that Saddamn's actions towards the people of iraq were 'terrorist' actions. sorry if i was off, but if saddam commits genocide in his own country, thats not a 'terrorist' act. (well, its a fox news 'terrorist act' lol)

 

[wayne white]

...iraq...

 

[Neutrino]

I largely think that a tax hike would be helpful to pay for these programs. Even after repealing the "wealthy tax reduction".

I'm in the process of filling out my mail-in ballot right now. I'll have my decision made within the next 10 minutes.

Yes, I agree. Tax cuts may be nice, but in reality I'm willing to bear the burden of the cost of public programs when they are necessary.



Wow, making the decision now huh? I'm quite interested in what you decide. Swing voters are so rare in this election that it's somewhat refreshing to be reminded that they're still out there. :E

 

[othello]

Okay othello, we have played your little game. And now it is time to answer a question yourself.

Why did you start this topic if you weren't going to go into it with an open mind. You know it. I know it. The American people know it.

lol... i started it because i find it funny the amount of ingorance that runs rampant throughout my country. people hate bush and dont even know why... and even if they do they couldnt support their reason with any legitimacy or credibility at all. its really sad that alot of people voting against bush think theyre saving their nation from a horrible president... and thats just clearly absurd.

i wish people would do there own research instead of watching the tirelessly refuted fahrfromright 9/11 and thinking they are now some political experts. if you have legitimate reasons for not liking bush (dont agree with abortion stance, gay rights stance, etc) than thats completely respectable. its all these unenlightened fools that cry 'bush lied, kids died!' and 'no war for oil!' that really upset me.

 

[Owskie]

lol... i started it because i find it funny the amount of ingorance that runs rampant throughout my country. people hate bush and dont even know why... and even if they do they couldnt support their reason with any legitimacy or credibility at all. its really sad that alot of people voting against bush think theyre saving their nation from a horrible president... and thats just clearly absurd.

i wish people would do there own research instead of watching the tirelessly refuted fahrfromright 9/11 and thinking they are now some political experts. if you have legitimate reasons for not liking bush (dont agree with abortion stance, gay rights stance, etc) than thats completely respectable. its all these unenlightened fools that cry 'bush lied, kids died!' and 'no war for oil!' that really upset me.

farenheit is quite patriotic as a documentary, i have only watched it recently.. everything that was in there i had already heard spouted from other people.. aside from a few things

 

[blahblahblah]

Yes, I agree. Tax cuts may be nice, but in reality I'm willing to bear the burden of the cost of public programs when they are necessary.



Wow, making the decision now huh? I'm quite interested in what you decide. Swing voters are so rare in this election that it's somewhat refreshing to be reminded that they're still out there. :E

I voted for

Spoiler

Kerry

Reason:

Spoiler

I was watching the last debate and he mentioned that the U.S. is the last industrialized country in the world to not have universal health care. That was the last straw in my opinion. He better come through on that.

 

[bliink]

lol... i started it because i find it funny the amount of ingorance that runs rampant throughout my country. people hate bush and dont even know why... and even if they do they couldnt support their reason with any legitimacy or credibility at all. its really sad that alot of people voting against bush think theyre saving their nation from a horrible president... and thats just clearly absurd.

i wish people would do there own research instead of watching the tirelessly refuted fahrfromright 9/11 and thinking they are now some political experts. if you have legitimate reasons for not liking bush (dont agree with abortion stance, gay rights stance, etc) than thats completely respectable. its all these unenlightened fools that cry 'bush lied, kids died!' and 'no war for oil!' that really upset me.

dont forget.. the same stuff comes from the other side too...

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Aside from Neutrino, I haven't seen any really valid points made.

What, did you miss my post?

150$ if you can tell me a single good secular reason to write anti-gay discrimination into a secular document.

If you can prove that invalid, you win cash!

And that's just one of my points.

Edit: WTF BBB votes Kerry? Where is the flying pig?!
You have impressed me as well, good chap.

 

[DoctorGordon]

I voted for

Spoiler

Kerry

Reason:

Spoiler

I was watching the last debate and he mentioned that the U.S. is the last industrialized country in the world to not have universal health care. That was the last straw in my opinion. He better come through on that.

Blahblahblah, you have impressed me

 

[bliink]

What, did you miss my post?

150$ if you can tell me a single good secular reason to write anti-gay discrimination into a secular document.

If you can prove that invalid, you win cash!

And that's just one of my points.

oh oh! you could always say 'for the betterment of human kind, only procreation is a valid reason for sex'

plz send me $150 kthxbye

 

[Owskie]

no you dont deserve money for that answer.. my friend who is gay, does not have sex..

 

[othello]

I'll give you a reason:

Because he's a chimp-faced cockwad with his head so far up his ass, that lump in his throat is his nose.

thanks for your reason... it is quite telling.

Now don't give me that "Takes one to know one" BS. You said give "give me one reason" not "give me one VALID reason" (although my reason is fairly vaild in itself. You don't want a retard running the country do you?).

so why should we elect the most incompetent senator weve ever had?

Frankly, I don't know how someone who can't pronounce simple words and complete proper sentences, could run a country for as long as he has. I think it's amazing what the media can do to a mass populace. They'll say anything and then morons who don't know better are all "Well, if it's on TV, it MUST be true...DUH!@!!@"

well... talk about a self-description.

Good day.

it is a good day.

EDIT: So instead of saddam torturing his people (as you put it), its now the americans who are doing it. Civilian casualties from bombs and american fire and all that shit.

thats what happens when you have a resistance from islamic radicals who resort to guerilla tactics. wait, wtf... "as you put it". are you that stupid? judging by the rest of your post, im inclined to think so. because yeah. labeling the torturing of saddams own people, as 'torture' is just my bias showing through isnt it?

ridiculous.

North Korea is very close to nuclear capability and they hate the US. Do you see Bush saying "Lets get those potential WMDs from North Korea. They don't like us and could kill us all" OF COURSE YOU DON'T! You know why? Because they don't having any god damn oil. That's why they went over there in the first place. To get rid of saddam and get oil. 9/11 was their scapegoat and they used it.

Once again. O-I-L.

Good day once again.

actually they have admitted to having nukes. actually both candidates have unveiled a plan to disarm NK. john kerry's plan involves the inept UN... which means nothing will happen for the next 10 years.

is it so wrong to secure the supply of a resource our nations relies on mercilessly? not that it matters since your conspiratist regurgitation is laughable, at best.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

oh oh! you could always say 'for the betterment of human kind, only procreation is a valid reason for sex'

plz send me $150 kthxbye

Sorry Sammy, but we don't discriminate against the infertile, now do we? that would be unconstitutional!

Also, marriage and children have very little to do with one-another nowadays, as the level of teen pregnancies would indicate.

Next! :burp:

Come on othello, give 'er a shot! You asked for one good reason, and you got one.

 

[Neutrino]

I voted for

Spoiler

Kerry

Reason:

Spoiler

I was watching the last debate and he mentioned that the U.S. is the last industrialized country in the world to not have universal health care. That was the last straw in my opinion. He better come through on that.

Thanks for sharing that. Throughout all the discussions on here I've always been curious who you would vote for. Heh, the spoilers were a nice touch. Added to the suspense.

Well, here to hoping he makes a good president.

:cheers:

 

[DoctorGordon]

Hmm everyone miraculously skipped commenting on my comments

 

[Owskie]

mine as well

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Hmm everyone miraculously skipped commenting on my comments

Don't feel bad. He's skipped Stern's and Neutrino's points too, and they are some of the best here.

From what I see, he's kinda just focusing on the easy ones.

Edit: Yup, he's definitely focusing on the easy ones. :stare:

 

[othello]

When told about WTC attacks, he sat in a chair reading a book about a goat. It was caught on tape for seven minutes. Apparently the goat was more interesting than what the agent had to say.

You should define your interpretation of 'valid reasoning.' Apparently it's different from other (read: everybody) people.

oh brother...

first off... the second plane hit the tower 60 seconds after bush entered the room. in that rare situation, bush was actually one of the last persons to be informed of the situation. when told that the second tower had hit, what you see is bush sitting in a chair interacting with the children for 5 minutes, not 7.

what you dont see his his staff on the phone, gathering as much information as possible. what you dont see is the big legal pad behind the camera's which read 'dont say anything yet', meaning they didnt have enough information to be able to say/do anything in response. what you dont see is bush communicating through various, often intelligble, slight nods and glances, and even paper hidden behind the book he was holding.

and what you are not told, is that once he had fully collected his thoughts, and digested the terrible tragedy that he was informed of, he got up and was on the phone with the FCC, the vice prez, the sec. of state, and various other officials immediately.

go spin your easily debunked web of conspiracies elsewhere.

 

[blahblahblah]

Thanks for sharing that. Throughout all the discussions on here I've always been curious who you would vote for. Heh, the spoilers were a nice touch. Added to the suspense. :E

Well, here to hoping he makes a good president.

:cheers:

I have a lot of expectations. He better come through on them.

I thought the spoilers were a nice touch too.

 

[h00dlum]

umm hes an idiot?

 

[DoctorGordon]

I have a lot of expectations. He better come through on them.

I hope so, for your sake. 3 words: stem cell research

 

[Owskie]

oh brother...

first off... the second plane hit the tower 60 seconds after bush entered the room. in that rare situation, bush was actually one of the last persons to be informed of the situation. when told that the second tower had hit, what you see is bush sitting in a chair interacting with the children for 5 minutes, not 7.

what you dont see his his staff on the phone, gathering as much information as possible. what you dont see is the big legal pad behind the camera's which read 'dont say anything yet', meaning they didnt have enough information to be able to say/do anything in response. what you dont see is bush communicating through various, often intelligble, slight nods and glances, and even paper hidden behind the book he was holding.

and what you are not told, is that once he had fully collected his thoughts, and digested the terrible tragedy that he was informed of, he got up and was on the phone with the FCC, the vice prez, the sec. of state, and various other officials immediately.

go spin your easily debunked web of conspiracies elsewhere.

no you dont communicate behind a ****ing book when america is under attack.. ::rolls eyes::

 

[Edge]

im sure you wouldn't mess up once speaking to 800 million people, knowing that theyre just waiting for you to mess up so they can ridicule you and everything you stand for. public speaking flubs have little-to-no effect on one's ability to lead our nation.

Umm you are using Bush numbers now. The population of the United States is not even 300 million. I would venture to say no more than 30% watched.

Bush has not outlined his plan for the future but has spent his time defending what the majority believes was a mistake and pointing out his opponents flaws (opinion of course). He needs to focus on the issues that concern Americans AS WELL as the war in IRAQ. I think we all agree we need to finish that war but he is neglecting his other duties. In my opinion.

 

[Logic]

Firstly, I'm an Australian, and I've lived here in Australia my whole life. I've never really been all that interested in politics... and yet suddenly, I am personally concerned with who is running the United States. Why? I don't know about other countries, but the influence of the U.S. on Australia is very obvious, in many different respects, and it worries me that our own Prime Minister fully supports Bush, who is not only prodding at potential world war, but allowing religion to have a pervasive influence on politics.

When America went to war, our PM, John Howard, chose to support the war with troops, without any kind of referendum or public consultation. Our PM decided that our country would support Bush over the United Nations. This not only put the lives of Australian soldiers at risk unneccissarily, but put the rest of the country at risk by making us a more likely target for terrorism. One of the obvious reasons for this support, that seems to have come to fruition, is that of a free trade agreement with America. Basically, we've been 'bought'. Initially, American politics was not something I took an interest in, but suddenly I find myself in a situation where my own country, all the way down here, is fighting a war on the other side of the world that we have nothing to do with, that the United Nations didn't even approve, and that, in my personal view, was not justifiable when it began. And we weren't asked, quite simply because our own Government knew that the majority would not have supported it. Democracy is going down the toilet.

Basically, my point is, Bush is stirring things up in more ways than one, and the shockwaves of his actions are being felt all around the world. He and his administration are dangerous people to have running a country with the influence, power and military might of America. Think about it...

HE IS LEADING INVASIONS. There's no greater way to stir shit than that.

 

[othello]

Honest leadership

if this is the kind of sh*t you read, no wonder you dont like bush. what a pathetic 'list'...

LIE #1 = "insert lie here"

REBUTTAL #! " "yeah right thats not true! like the government had nothing to do with it!"

what a devastating compilation of piercing evidence against the present adminstration.

 

[Owskie]

Don't feel bad. He's skipped Stern's and Neutrino's points too, and they are some of the best here.

From what I see, he's kinda just focusing on the easy ones.

Edit: Yup, he's definitely focusing on the easy ones. :stare:

what ive noticed is he answers the same questions over in over posted in different posts bypassing the more important points

 

[Owskie]

Firstly, I'm an Australian, and I've lived her in Australia my whole life. I've never really been all that interested in politics... and yet suddenly, I am personally concerned with who is running the United States. Why? I don't know about other countries, but the influence of the U.S. on Australia is very obvious, in many different respects, and it worries me that our own Prime Minister fully supports Bush, who is not only prodding at potential world war, but allowing religion to have a pervasive influence on politics.

When America went to war, our PM, John Howard, chose to support the war with troops, without any kind of referendum or public consultation. Our PM decided that our country would support Bush over the United Nations. This not only put the lives of Australian soldiers at risk unneccissarily, but put the rest of the country at risk by making us a more likely target for terrorism. One of the obvious reasons for this support, that seems to have come to fruition, is that of a free trade agreement with America. Basically, we've been 'bought'. Initially, American politics was not something I took an interest in, but suddenly I find myself in a situation where my own country, all the way down here, is fighting a war on the other side of the world that we have nothing to do with, that the United Nations didn't even approve, and that, in my personal view, was not justifiable when it began. And we weren't asked, quite simply because our own Government knew that the majority would not have supported it. Democracy is going down the toilet.

Basically, my point is, Bush is stirring things up in more ways than one, and the shockwaves of his actions are being felt all around the world. He and his administration are dangerous people to have running a country with the influence, power and military might of America. Think about it...

HE IS LEADING INVASIONS. There's no greater way to stir shit than that.

i dont believe this will be the last if he is re-elected

 

[othello]

here ya go ...should be all there :E

how pathetic. as i said in my first post, in your own words please, copy and paste jobs require only the amount of intellect to copy and paste. i can train a liberal to do that.