Gordan should be talking

[Lockdown]

my first post here so i'll try and make this intellegent.
Now, based on the overall presentation of HL2, i think that valve intended to put you (the player) into gordan's perspective as much as was possible. this seems obvious considering how you never come out of his POV. as such, it makes sense to believe that valve has gordan not say anything for similar reasons. however, not having the main character talk only served to alienate me from my playing experience. everytime i interacted with someone (alyx, eli, kleiner, etc) there were things i wanted to say. nothing unbelievable... a simple "what's going on here" or "don't worry, i'm coming" or even "i'll see you soon alyx" (at the very end when she says to be careful). having my character sit there like a freaking mute just made the play experience less believeable. why can't he say something? in jedi knight 2, kyle made comments from time to time. it served to make the player feel more at home with the character. people imagine themselves as characters all the time, imagining yourself saying some dialogue isn't going to disrupt the play experience.

in short, make gordan say stuff valve. if not in an expansion, then definately in HL3. the game will suffer for it if you don't.

--lockdown

 

[bam23]

There were a few times where I wanted Gordon to say something, but think of it as Valve wanting you to provide his dialogue

 

[Terranboy]

I love the fact that Gordon doesn't talk. So original.

 

[WhiteZero]

It isnt so much that your put into Gordon's eyes, as you are Gordons eyes, ears, hands and legs. If he were to talk, then it would take away from the experience of you being Gordon.

the game will suffer for it if you don't.

Yes... no talking obviously makes the game suffer... thats why the first one got over 50 Game of the Year awards. :rolling:

 

[Messermeier]

i like doing the "talking" for gordon - most of the time.
there are times i WOULD like to say something though. like when you first meet alyx.

she greets you, talks to you..and eventually says "you're not a man of many words, are you?", indicating you didnt say anything.

as a polite free/man, i would at least have liked to greet her

 

[Ames]

No...nonononono

I, along with thousands of other bloodthirsty HL2 fanboys, would go seek out and kill Valve ritualisticly if they made Gordon talk. :|:|:|:|:|:|

 

[SupaKoopa]

I love the fact that Gordon doesn't talk. So original.

ever play a Zelda game?

 

[Messermeier]

what valve did is almost perfect.

1) if gordon talked, it WOULD destroy the illusion of you being gordon, you WOULD hear that other voice in your head thats also "you" - quite schizophrenic, i wouldnt like that.

2) multiple choice talking? doesnt exactly give you much freedom either, neither is it ingenious. also see 1).

3) talking by thinking. this is what was done in hl2. i love it, but the characters should NEVER EVER make you feel mute. they sometimes do in hl2.
they shouldnt say you dont talk. they should wait some seconds after saying something important, they should pretend to be listening. some would complain about the conversations taking a little longer, but .. oh well

 

[-Yo-]

GordOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON . And go play HL1 too You will know why they didn't ruined the HL1 feelings !

 

[Captain M4d]

If Gordon had voice overs, too, it might not reflect on what you, the player, is actually feeling or thinking. That is why Half-Life is so well known for their unique point of view: You are Gordon Freeman.

 

[RabidJester]

So I'm guess I'm the only one who talked at the screen during the game.

 

[cleckmoon]

I just like to think that Gordon lost his larynx in a tragic lab prank at MIT. Or something equaly stupid.

 

[DeusExMachina]

If Gordon talked, it would bring more character to him and those around him. You never really know what Gordon himself is feeling. While your like "OMFG I LOVE BLASTING THESE COMBINE n00bS! IM SO 1337!" Gordon's having a nervous breakdown or he feels sorry for the people he just killed or he feels that all of this is his fault...but you never know. Because he never talks.

 

[f|uke]

Gordon will never talk. Never.

I do think VALVe should consider dropping this limitation in their follow-up to the HL series. In the gamespot article, it was mentioned that the idea of voice recognition had been tossed around. THAT would rock. Imagin having a mic, and actually talking to the characters. Simple stuff, of course,. hi/bye/yes/no/commands,. still that would be killer.. and they could expand it from there.

 

[Messermeier]

So I'm guess I'm the only one who talked at the screen during the game.

nope

//edit

While your like "OMFG I LOVE BLASTING THESE COMBINE n00bS! IM SO 1337!" Gordon's having a nervous breakdown or he feels sorry for the people he just killed or he feels that all of this is his fault...but you never know.

if i am like omfg 1337 meh r teh pwn, gordon is like omfg 1337 meh r teh pwn.
if the player has a nervous breakdown while playing, gordon has one and problably dies.
if i care about the people in the game, gordon does.
it's all about imagination and immersion.

 

[redpoints]

I love the fact that Gordon doesn't talk. So original.

Uhh, original? Doom marine talks much to you does he?

 

[Lockdown]

Yes... no talking obviously makes the game suffer... thats why the first one got over 50 Game of the Year awards. :rolling:

the important thing to remember is that just because HL2 (and HL1 for that matter) are excellent games, it doesn't mean we can't criticize them. there's plenty of room for improvement, even in HL2. i mean, i loved the game to death while playing it through, but i can see areas it could be improved on. gordan talking would be one of these.

--will

 

[Frist]

No...nonononono

I, along with thousands of other bloodthirsty HL2 fanboys, would go seek out and kill Valve ritualisticly if they made Gordon talk. :|:|:|:|:|:|

that's me...it would ruin it.. gordon doesn't talk..as alyx says "a man of few words"

 

[OCybrManO]

Apparently, the overwhelming majority of people either don't want Gordon to talk (and remain in his POV at all times) or they just don't care about it... because Half-Life was enormously successful and so is Half-Life 2. Why? Valve doesn't want to force words into your mouth. Sure, you might like Gordon to say something... but what happens when (and it will happen if they make him speak) he says something you don't want him to say? That would hurt the whole idea of the player being Gordon, wouldn't it? What if the player doesn't like Gordon's voice? A silent lead character of which you are always the eyes, ears, and brain is one of the things that makes Half-Life... well, Half-Life.

 

[jasonh1234]

According to the Raising the bar book, In addition to having Gordon's face appearing in mirrors, Valve was going to have Gordon talking for HL2 and dropped it at the last minute because of localization issues. (They weren't able to get it all translated in time to other languages) The actor for Gordon's dialog was Gilbert Gottfried.

 

[Driftlight]

I find that unlikely. Valve said over the entire course of the development of HL2 when it was known to the public that Gordon wasn't going to talk and you'd never see him.

I'm not going to believe jason until someone else backs him up.

Edi: okay, that sentence up there doesn't make much sense, but I think you get my point.

 

[Lockdown]

well, i'll stick to my arguments for why gordan ought to talk in the game, but i accept that a lot of people don't want him to. in the end, the important thing is that the player feel immersed in the playing experience. maybe in HL3 valve could include an option to have gordon talk or not, and players could choose whichever they felt would best get them into the game.

what do you all think about that?

--lockdown

 

[Revenge]

I strongly believe Gordon should never ever talk, because everybody feels differently to different events, even if they all outwardly act the same.

For instance, when DOG holds up the barrier to let you into the citadel, some people would literally JUMP at the opportunity to go rescue alyx shouting and screaming enthusiastically, while others would unhappily go "bah, fine then". Similarly some people would be quite eager to have tried out the teleport at the start, some would not have been very comfortable with it at all. Some people would have been utterly heartbroken by the losses taken in the first major strider battle, some would sadistically laugh like Father Grigorii at the bloodshed and quickly gather up all their precioussssss ammo...

I feel one way, you feel another. If Gordon was given a voice actor, then the actor's emotion would come through in Gordon's voice, and we would be forced to conform with a particular view of events. Ie you'd get situations where the player hated Alyx while Gordon was falling in love with her, or where the player wanted to utter something quite rude to one of the resistance fighters who got in his way, but Gordon was replying with as much politeness as they were speaking to him with.

By not restricting our emotional reactions to Mark Laidlaw's view of how we "should" react, this makes Gordon an instant winner with everyone, as we all imagine Gordon's personality to be whatever we want it to be, where as in other games we could easily get emotionally distant from the character because we think he is too much of a lump head, or we get annoyed with the character because he is too much of an emotional sap with a billion problems in his life....

 

[OCybrManO]

I find that unlikely. Valve said over the entire course of the development of HL2 when it was known to the public that Gordon wasn't going to talk and you'd never see him.

I'm not going to believe jason until someone else backs him up.

Edi: okay, that sentence up there doesn't make much sense, but I think you get my point.

Wow, some people are thick. Come on... it's Gilbert Gottfried... the voice of Iago the parrot in Alladin... Mr. Peabody from Problem Child... you know, that guy with the really annoying voice. That should have tipped you off. In case you still haven't noticed, it was obviously a joke.

 

[h00dlum]

Wow, some people are thick. Come on... it's Gilbert Gottfried... the voice of Iago the parrot in Alladin... Mr. Peabody from Problem Child... you know, that guy with the really annoying voice. That should have tipped you off. In case you still haven't noticed, it was obviously a joke.

ROFL haha i realized it was a joke when i saw who the actor was

 

[Kommie]

Uhh, original? Doom marine talks much to you does he?

MY preciouss where precioussssss mine is being

 

[Lanthanide]

I don't think you can really say Gordon not talking was a major part in HL1 - you never saw any of the NPCs again after you'd met them the first time, and all of the conversations were informing Gordon of something that just happened and/or where he should go now. That's it - there really was little room for conversation.

In HL2 there are lots of questions you could ask about the past, and comments you can make (eg: "Dr Breen, don't let my father get started about him" then Gordon says "well actually I quite liked him" etc).

I think someone else hit the nail on the head earlier - it is ok for Gordon not to speak, but the other characters should act as if he has spoken (even if it's just something simple) and respond in such a way that the player knows or can guess what was said (very very tricky to do). Making the player aware that Gordon is mute ruins the mood, IMO.

 

[Revenge]

I agree entirely. I too feel that Alyx's "a man of few words huh?" comment would have been completely out of place were it not a teasing joke at Gordon's lack of dialogue, but joke or not it still ruined the mood a bit and kinda put me off.

I did like to think that Gordon was always supplying the neccessary nods, grunts, yeses, noes, hellos and goodbyes as he went along HL1, and it did fit in well. For instance all the pre-disaster responses by the NPCs indicated that Gordon had indicated he wanted to talk for a while and they told him that they were too busy to chat. In HL2 I'm starting to feel like my use key was nothing more than a cow prod that prompted people to spurt a random line as opposed to actually RESPONDING to something I theoretically said.

Eg: "Using" most resistance fighters will generally result in them simply telling you to hurry up, as opposed to saying something like they have to stay where they are or that they'd rather not talk at the moment. The one notable exception is the gate guard in the city fighting scenes, who tells you he has to stay put incase somebody else comes along.

 

[Krofinzki]

Gordon will never talk. Never.

I do think VALVe should consider dropping this limitation in their follow-up to the HL series. In the gamespot article, it was mentioned that the idea of voice recognition had been tossed around. THAT would rock. Imagin having a mic, and actually talking to the characters. Simple stuff, of course,. hi/bye/yes/no/commands,. still that would be killer.. and they could expand it from there.

I think this what the industry would need, it'd raise the bar yet another step. And I'd like it to

 

[groovy]

no he shouldn't talk, shut your filthy hole, you scum!

 

[DEATH eVADER]

There were a few times where I wanted Gordon to say something, but think of it as Valve wanting you to provide his dialogue

Say something to Breen on the lines.

"As of right now, everybody is rebelling, the civil protectors are being swarmed and the citadal will be destroyed. You are a liability to your benefactors. If you can't stop the rebels you will be killed yourself. Its not too late to work for us."

 

[Revenge]

Breen's answer to that is quite predicable really, he wont buy it.

Breen isn't an evil man, he really does believe that the only way to avoid the extinction on the human race is to comply with the combine and do what they tell us, and therefore he believes that if the resistance wins, then the combine will destroy all humanity. He would never give in to the resistance as long as he believes that doing so would spell doom for all of humanity. He would feel he was betraying everybody by doing so.

 

[Digital_Junkie]

I'm in the "Gordon should never speak" camp.

I think a voice recognition thing would be amazing if it were done perfectly... And chances are it never could be. If anyone here is a "True A.I." fan; you'll remember that one of the tests of true A.I. is solving "The Natural Language Problem". The problem is that, even with a computer with near infinite scripted responses, could never adapt to human speech patterns person to person. It couldn't grasp the concepts behind the spoken words as well. Or respond well to something that was said "out of the blue".

While having specific things we can say I think it would really detract from the experience if you were to ask someone "What's going on here?" Only to have them reply "Sorry, I don't understand the question."

And what about the problem of voice synths? They never sound human and even if they did someone would have to spend years in front of the keyboard scripting possible replies for everyone. Or it would take massive amounts of time in the recording studio for any actors.

 

[magicsauce]

GORDON FREEMAN SPEAKS WITH HIS CROWBAR!

Obviously, I'm in the non speaking camp. I have too much fun talking to the screen.

"What the hell? Why in a headcrabs name are you climbing a drainpipe?!"

 

[the_FNG]

his silence seems to be part of the character that he is.

"it is better to remain silent and appear a fool, then to open ones mouth and remove all doubt" - mark twain.

 

[ktimekiller]

im getting sick of new commers complainging that hl2 isnt this, hl2 isnt that.....

 

[magicsauce]

his silence seems to be part of the character that he is.

"it is better to remain silent and appear a fool, then to open ones mouth and remove all doubt" - mark twain.

The Mark Twain quote sums it up for my Gordon. When I play I feel as if Gordon is THRUST into this crazy situation. The 'real' player is just trying to get along much less overthrow some alien force.

If I could actually talk to the charactars they would probably get pissed off and slap my face several times.

"You want me to go where and do what?!"

 

[Armageddon00]

Ok two possibilitys

1. Valve hires 1000 people to interact over the internet during the game with other people to make it realisitic P yea right)

2. Maybe we could type things in and then there was a voice that was created to say those things? under standing typing isnt AS hard as the spoken word

 

[PvtRyan]

It the concept that hard to grasp?

Gordon doesn't speak because you are Gordon, if he would speak, Gordon would have his own character with own opinions (that would probably not reflect your own, which would distance you from the character) and you'd only be someone steering him, not being him.

 

[the_FNG]

im getting sick of new commers complainging that hl2 isnt this, hl2 isnt that.....

boo-hoo!!! i've gotta accumulate hundreds of (probably useless) posts before i'm entitled to opinions and comments on this forum!

welcome to the internet sweetheart. think of it as a giant sandbox where everyone has to play nice and get along with each other, for everyone to enjoy it.