Goverment lie's

[Dalamari]

Goverment lie's

Who cares?

Does it directly effect anyone here? No

Nuff said.

 

[CptStern]

Ya but both sides have people that will do that. Besides what happens when one of them falls? You might get crushed. :O

i'll run really fast! :bounce:

 

[Neutrino]

Not that I think the topic of this thread has anything to do with government lies, but speaking in general terms and I'm stressing the general part here....

Who cares?

Myself, and a lot of other people who care about the intergrity of our representatives. I would hope every citizen cares whether they are lied to or not by their government.

Does it directly effect anyone here? No

Yes. It very well might affect someone here or any number of other people. What you think all lies are just harmless? You think we should let the government just tell us whatever it wants with zero accountability as it apparently doesn't actually affect real people?

Nuff said.

Obviously not.

(Sorry if that was meant as some kind of joke, but it didn't seem like one.)

 

[Mr-Fusion]

Well that all seems a bit sus to me. The FBI specifically going to a gas station and hotel to sieze footage within minutes of the attack almost seems planned.

 

[Top Secret]

You know, after reading this entire thread, it's amazing how much Seinfeld got flamed throughout everything. Although I heavily enjoyed every page of dabate, I'd say the last pages were my favourite. Like when the third party pictures were shown proving it was an aircraft. Suddenly everyone supporting the missle theory flames Seinfeld, when infact, they just got their own smackdown. Moral of the story: Don't be a jackass. 2nd moral of the story: DEFINATELY don't be a jackass if you're wrong.

All and all, I think the lot of you are acting like babies. If you don't have respect for someone's opinion, then why should anyone else have respect for yours? Thanks for the read boys, I'm off.

 

[blahblahblah]

All and all, I think the lot of you are acting like babies. If you don't have respect for someone's opinion, then why should anyone else have respect for yours? Thanks for the read boys, I'm off.

I have perfect respect for other peoples opinions. Ask other people, I will respect your opinions if you can back it up. Providing shoddy evidence and highly biased and unknowledgable sources does not create respect for a person.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Unless I was mistaken, Top Secret was defending me. Now give me a few minutes of privacy to wipe the tears out of my eyes, such an event doesnt occur too often.

 

[staddydaddy]

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/cctv/pentani.gif

this was the video that I was talking about in my post #46.


I love how we just took this stupid numb fuc|{ and stuck it in his butt and pee'ed

HACED BITCH

 

[Neutrino]

All and all, I think the lot of you are acting like babies. If you don't have respect for someone's opinion, then why should anyone else have respect for yours? Thanks for the read boys, I'm off.

Seems a bit high handed to jump in a thead at the end and declare everyone is acting like "babies." Like BlahBlahBlah said, I respect other's opinions. But I'm not going to sit by silently if I think those opinions are obviously wrong and I can point out why I think so.

And yes, there have been some inappropriate posts and personal attacks, but there have been just as many that were just debating the topic.

 

[Top Secret]

I honestly don't mean to sound high handed. I don't mean *Everyone* was acting like babies. Just that some of you could lighten up a little bit. Although I don't fail to recognize that I probably don't have any say since I didn't contribute to the topic. As for your beliefs on pointed out flaw's in others opinions, I'm the same way. I just try not to be a jackass while doing so. (Not to imply that you were a jackass) The thread was a good read though, and I liked how everyone got all technical. (The plane speeds/physics, the explosion patterns of bombs, etc etc)

 

[Neutrino]

I honestly don't mean to sound high handed. I don't mean *Everyone* was acting like babies. Just that some of you could lighten up a little bit. Although I don't fail to recognize that I probably don't have any say since I didn't contribute to the topic. As for your beliefs on pointed out flaw's in others opinions, I'm the same way. I just try not to be a jackass while doing so. (Not to imply that you were a jackass) The thread was a good read though, and I liked how everyone got all technical. (The plane speeds/physics, the explosion patterns of bombs, etc etc)

Alright, sorry if I misunderstood.

 

[Jammydodger]

The title of this thread clearly shows how intelligent people who make up this bull shit are.

It's LIES you FUC|{ING MORON0

Maybe if you learned the difference between plural and possessive you would have realized by now that you're a dumb ass douche.

right 4 starters staddydaddy if that is directed at me you need 2 stfu.
some of you people are so closed minded its unbelievable, im not saying i believe this 100% but iv got a open mind about it.
And as for the goverment not being corupt, what a joke its been proved in the past that the CIA have used mind-control and brianwashing methods on the public.

I dont want 2 argue about this any more im just asking people 2 look at the bigger picture.

 

[seinfeldrules]

what a joke its been proved in the past that the CIA have used mind-control and brianwashing methods on the public.

Oh great 'openminded' Jammy. You are so superior to me because you believe in conspiracy theories. If only I could bite into the ridiculous notions that you have, perhaps then I could be called 'openminded' as well. Maybe if I started believing Bush was an alien? Could I fit in then? Oh wait, how about I start believing that HL2 is Bush's 1984ish plot to take over the teenage population across the globe? Oh well, I suppose being called normal, not insane, works for me! You dont need to bite into the most ridiculous things you can find to be 'openminded'. Do you give yourself a big pat on the back everynight for believing this stuff? Even when the facts are against you?

 

[Korgoth]

What if I told you the military has tested nerve agents on un-suspecting American civillians? And even different "stimulants" in different states around the nation? Would you think I was making up a conspiracy to scare you? Becuase this is what they will tell... Who knows what else they've done.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/w...&node=&contentId=A3806-2002Oct9&notFound=true

The disclosure about the tests in Maryland, which included VX and sarin nerve agents, came as the Pentagon acknowledged for the first time that the military had conducted land-based tests of chemical and biological weapons. The Pentagon disclosed earlier this year that it had conducted such tests involving some of its ships at sea.

Outdoor land tests also were conducted in Alaska, Florida, Utah and Hawaii, as well as in the United Kingdom and Canada in conjunction with those countries' governments, Pentagon officials said yesterday.

Moreover, civilians in Hawaii -- and possibly in Alaska and Florida -- were exposed to "simulants," biological agents believed at the time to be harmless that were used in the place of deadly ones. Thousands of civilians may have been exposed to such simulants during one exercise on the island of Oahu. The simulants contained live bacteria, such as E. coli, and some could have caused problems for people with damaged immune systems, officials said

 

[seinfeldrules]

What if I told you the military has tested nerve agents on un-suspecting American civillians?

Since you posted a respectable link I would listen to your side of the story. Just because of this doesnt mean you need to believe every wild idea people throw your way.

 

[Korgoth]

But I DON'T believe every conspiracy... Not even the one this topic is based on, and I've said that numerous times in this thread. My point is to tell people to be a little more open to the idea that maybe, just maybe, the government might lie to cover their asses, they've done it many times before, and they'll definately do it again. If there is even the slightest chance that they could be lying about certain events pretaining to 9/11 (the most tragic even in American history) Then I strongly believe we should go down every avenue of debate until we find the absolute truth, we owe the victims and their families at least that much don't we?

 

[seinfeldrules]

Then I strongly believe we should go down every avenue of debate until we find the absolute truth, we owe the victims and their families at least that much don't we?

We went through the 9/11 Commision and have had millions of eye witness accounts. The debate over 9/11 should be done.

 

[Korgoth]

I don't believe so, the 9/11 commission is all well and good, but how about an outside washington source, with unlimited timeframe, unlimited access, and unlimited power to interview any official they want? Why would they roadblock a commision thats put in place to determine the truth? The debate will never be finished, much like the war on terrorism.

 

[Jammydodger]

seinfeldrules its a known fact that the CIA and other agencies have used mind control on the public before, Look it up before u start flaming.

 

[seinfeldrules]

seinfeldrules its a known fact that the CIA and other agencies have used mind control on the public before, Look it up before u start flaming.

I think you are referring to MiB. You know Men in Black. I call Will Smith, you can be Tommy Lee Jones.

 

[CptStern]

I think you are referring to MiB. You know Men in Black. I call Will Smith, you can be Tommy Lee Jones.

:upstare: you really do think the US government is a knight in shining armor
care to explain this away as just a "conspiracy": School of the Americas in Fort Benning Georgia: a school for high ranking foreign soldiers that teaches techinques on torture (among other things) based on the CIA handbook: "Human Resource Exploitation"

 

[blahblahblah]

:upstare: you really do think the US government is the equivilent to Superman

care to explain this away as just a "conspiracy": School of the Americas in Fort Benning Georgia: a school for high ranking foreign soldiers that teaches techinques on torture (among other things) based on the CIA handbook: "Human Resource Exploitation"

I bet Canada has its own torture techniques as well.

I don't think the US is the equivilent to superman. However, a measure of common sense needs to be applied to conspiracy theories.

There are benefits (as wrong as they maybe) for doing torture. Also, the government doesn't deny about these torture or "interrogation techniques" that they use. When CBS nightly news has a story about what techniques they use on Iraqi prisioners, there is no conspiracy going on.

There are fairly dramatic differences between this missile conspiracy to known US interrogation practices.

 

[Jammydodger]

I think you are referring to MiB. You know Men in Black. I call Will Smith, you can be Tommy Lee Jones.

Educate yourself -
http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/lsd-mc-cia.htm

 

[CptStern]

I bet Canada has its own torture techniques as well.

not sanctioned but yes there has been cases of torture (by soldiers ..big surprise) ..in fact I brought that up not too long ago. The difference here is that the US allows torture

I don't think the US is the equivilent to superman. However, a measure of common sense needs to be applied to conspiracy theories.

well anyone accepting it at face value is a fool ...that's what research is for ...present the facts then do your own investigation but dont go on one source alone

There are benefits (as wrong as they maybe) for doing torture.

There is no benefits to torture excpet gaining control ...torture has been proven to be unreliable as a method of gathering information.

lso, the government doesn't deny about these torture or "interrogation techniques" that they use. When CBS nightly news has a story about what techniques they use on Iraqi prisioners, there is no conspiracy going on.

CIA not the military ...if you can in good conscience live with the fact that your country tortures individulas then I'm sorry to say you are not a good christian. Where's the humanity and compassion that jesus taught?

There are fairly dramatic differences between this missile conspiracy to known US interrogation practices.

no doubt, I never claimed there was any truth in the missle conspiracy ...in fact I think most conspiracy theoris are just a lot hot air ..facts, I need facts not speculation

 

[Neutrino]

Educate yourself -
http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/lsd-mc-cia.htm

I'm sorry, but that hardly constitues "proof."

If your going to make claims like that and say they are "proven" then you need to back yourself up with non-biased sources. I understand saying you think it is important and bringing it up for discussion, but telling people it's proven and then linking to a mindcontrol forum isn't going to go over very well, and in fact hurts your own position by making you looked biased in your own debate.

Just so you know, I'm not trying to defend the government by saying that. They have not always been honest in the past and I'm certainly willing to accept the possibility that there have been wrongdoings by them. However, facts and unbiased sources are somewhat important for me before I jump on the bandwagon of a conspiracy theory.

 

[blahblahblah]

I don't have the time to properly respond to your post CptStern. My life just turned hectic right now.

I do want to respond to this though.

CIA not the military ...if you can in good conscience live with the fact that your country tortures individulas then I'm sorry to say you are not a good christian. Where's the humanity and compassion that jesus taught?

I'm told I can't support the union between a man and a woman, but I am supposed to support other things like being against torture?

Is there a double standard going on? Just wondering...Comment if you feel like, but I don't need a reply. I don't even mean to put you on the spot. Its just something I notice once in a while from non-Christians.

Just for the record, I am against torture. I've read several books about torture in the Vietnam and the subject sickens me.

 

[CptStern]

I don't have the time to properly respond to your post CptStern. My life just turned hectic right now.

I do want to respond to this though.



I'm told I can't support the union between a man and a woman, but I am supposed to support other things like being against torture?

Is there a double standard going on? Just wondering...Comment if you feel like, but I don't need a reply. I don't even mean to put you on the spot. Its just something I notice once in a while from non-Christians.

that's my point exactly ...you cant choose which parts of your faith to believe in ..if you are against gay marriage because your religion forbids it, then you should also be against torture if your religion is against it

Just for the record, I am against torture. I've read several books about torture in the Vietnam and the subject sickens me.

and so it should, torture is barbaric ..I dont understand why more americans arent foaming at the mouth about what's going on in iraq to prisoners. When 2 canadian soldiers tortured and killed 2 Somali teenagers, their whole regiment was disbanded and the soldiers where criminally charged ...canadian were outraged

btw, this sickens me

 

[alehm]

I like how the video asked where were the planes wings then a few seconds later shows a picture of a plane crash where there was no evidence left of the wings. So I guess that wasn't a real plane crash either. lol

Furthermore, what happened to the 757 if it never hit the pentagon? What happened to its passengers?

And all these people that said it sounded like a missle.. how many missles have they heard in their lifetime? How many low flying aricraft have they heard in their lifetime? Those things sound much different close up than at a distance.

 

[Jammydodger]

I'm sorry, but that hardly constitues "proof."

If your going to make claims like that and say they are "proven" then you need to back yourself up with non-biased sources. I understand saying you think it is important and bringing it up for discussion, but telling people it's proven and then linking to a mindcontrol forum isn't going to go over very well, and in fact hurts your own position by making you looked biased in your own debate.

Fact*

"In 1977 , official CIA documents , code-named MKULTRA, were discovered, which exposed the CIA's involvement in very questionable mind control research. This mind control research covered a broad range of illegal experiments on unwitting human guinea-pigs who were supplied from US State penitentiaries (prisons to the Europeans),In August 1977, the US Senate Select Committee on Intelligence questioned top CIA officials on the MKuLTRA mind control program."

Like i said educate yourself before flaming others.

 

[Neutrino]

Fact*

"In 1977 , official CIA documents , code-named MKULTRA, were discovered, which exposed the CIA's involvement in very questionable mind control research. This mind control research covered a broad range of illegal experiments on unwitting human guinea-pigs who were supplied from US State penitentiaries (prisons to the Europeans),In August 1977, the US Senate Select Committee on Intelligence questioned top CIA officials on the MKuLTRA mind control program."

Like i said educate yourself before flaming others.

Source please. Thanks.

And this proves your earlier claim how?

its been proved in the past that the CIA have used mind-control and brianwashing methods on the public.

 

[gooball]

Here's a very detailed video. 20+mb (40 minute excerpt from a documentry)
http://www.prisonplanet.com/painful_deceptions_excerpt.wmv

 

[Jammydodger]

Source please. Thanks.

And this proves your earlier claim how?

God cant you do a little bit of research yourself?
Here you go iv done it for you, the actual MKULTRA Documents.
And please dont ask me 2 get any more proof, just look it up yourself.
http://www.parascope.com/ds/mkultradocs.htm

 

[Neutrino]

God cant you do a little bit of research yourself?
Here you go iv done it for you, the actual MKULTRA Documents.
And please dont ask me 2 get any more proof, just look it up yourself.
http://www.parascope.com/ds/mkultradocs.htm

Sorry, but if you put forth claims about a government conspiracy to brainwash the public using mind control then I see it as your job to provide proof to back up your statements. I'm sorry if you don't see it that way, but that's usually the way things work. I
am not trying to be unreasonable here. Scientists don't write papers supporting their hypothosis and then say, "Do your own research." No, they provide facts and unbiased sources to back up the claims they make. Otherwise no one would ever take them seriously. I wish you luck in school, if you don't understand this.

Oh and these are the sites you've given as "proof" for you claims so far:

http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/lsd-mc-cia.htm
http://www.parascope.com/

Do you know what would happen if you quoted those as sources in a college level paper?

Here's an excerpt from the parascope site:

Content areas:

Conspiracies
UFO's and Aliens
The paranormal
Covert Operations

I'm seeing just a slight bias here. I'm not sure but there seems to be a common trend on that site, I just can't quite put my finger on it.

Oh wait, here it is:

Your Next President Masturbated in a Coffin!

Here's do show the fallacy of this method of proving a claim I'll demonstrate below:

See:

Some scientist have proven that crop circles are in fact direct evidence of alien landings by studying the variations in the lunar cycle during the creation of these phenomona and how that correlates with geographical patterns of the circles left by extraterrestrial visitors.

It's true. Look it up and educate yourself.

 

[el Chi]

Sorry if my drivel has already been mentioned but here goes:
Is the video trying to imply that the US fired a missile into the Pentagon - otherwise why would they need to cover it up by claiming it was a plane?
It at no point mentions why and to what ends the US would do this. After the WTC, they certainly didn't need any more motivation to take action against al-Qaeda. The motive for such an extreme action is a rather important detail in one's argument.

It certainly is interesting (where's the wreckage?, etc) but it really does smack of tin-foil hats.

 

[Neutrino]

Sorry if my drivel has already been mentioned but here goes:
Is the video trying to imply that the US fired a missile into the Pentagon - otherwise why would they need to cover it up by claiming it was a plane?
It at no point mentions why and to what ends the US would do this. After the WTC, they certainly didn't need any more motivation to take action against al-Qaeda. The motive for such an extreme action is a rather important detail in one's argument.

It certainly is interesting (where's the wreckage?, etc) but it really does smack of tin-foil hats.

Good point about the motivation. That does seem to be oddly missing in the video doesn't it?

Oh and some pictures of the wreckage were posted on I think page 3 but I'm not sure.

 

[Baal]

After reading this thread I have concluded:

1. Seinfeldrules is a retard.
2. It was definetly a plane, maybe not a 757..but a plane I'd say. But people are open to speculation about whatever they want *see below*
3. Everyone has their opinions, but some people can just be plain wrong. And some people can be dissmissive of other's opinions, such as seinfeldrules when he forbids people to speculate that the government may not always be looking out for your best interest.

 

[seinfeldrules]

1. Seinfeldrules is a retard.

Someone is a little biased, eh? I dont remember ever insulting you.

forbids people to speculate that the government may not always be looking out for your best interest

Oh forgive me for not believing that my government mind controls its citizens, or that it purposely murdered 3000+ civilians on 9/11. Sorry, but I dont speculate on things that are unrealistic. There is a line between speculation and insanity. Guess which side of the line these claims lie upon. If I speculated that Japan actually bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki, would you call me crazy? I hope so. The same can be said about America and 9/11.

 

[Phraxtion]

Well Seinfeld, you have my respect for multiple reasons. I for one have given up posting in alot of these offtopic threads.

 

[TinyKilbasa]

All I know is that something hit the pentagon & WTC, most likely a plane, and killed many people. As interesting as that little flash cartoon was (& in my opinion not very factual), we still need to remind ourselves that however it had happened, many lives were destroyed because of it.

I agree that the government isnt perfect, and have most likely lied to the general public many times. But a lot of these theories that people conjour up are usually over-imaginative ideas, based upon faulty data. I even remember someone saying they saw a face from one of the explotions from the WTC? please.. Sometimes people will see something horrific and will react to it in a way that will make them feel more comfortable. They will ask them selves over and over "Why is this happening?" They are so confused, that they will accept any answer they can find as fact, as crazy as it may sound. I see this flash movie as just another attempt to come up with the answer "Why?".

 

[seinfeldrules]

Well Seinfeld, you have my respect for multiple reasons. I for one have given up posting in alot of these offtopic threads.

Yeah I think I may as well, some of these people are beyond hope ;(