Goverment lie's

[Operation Ivy]

That video is complete bull
what about the people that were on the plane? are they saying they never exsited?

 

[gooball]

That video is complete bull
what about the people that were on the plane? are they saying they never exsited?

If that alone convinces you that it's bull..

Let's say the builings were intentionally hit, by a missile, they would already being killing innocent people, why would they stop with people on the planes?

 

[gooball]

By the way, when professional golfer Payne Stewart's plane was circling on autopilot with crew and passengers dead from pressure loss, there were dozens of US fighter jets in the air, around the area. All within 18 minutes.

With the pentagon plane, there was a 45 minute delay between when it's radar was shut off and when it hit the pentagon. The planes that hit WTC 1 and 2 were tracked after they turned off their radios for over a half hour, and only 2 jets took off (except after the planes hit the WTC).

 

[Operation Ivy]

Just know that if corrupt people in power want to profit billions from oil in soon-to-be-invaded countries

Ill just pretend i didnt read that...rest was fine

 

[gooball]

HAh ok, well if the attacks were intentional and by the US government, then why? who stood to benefit?

I admit that sounded strange. But now that the US is in Iraq, Cheney's former company and their conglomerates are getting all the oil pipeline deals.

It's just hard to think that any motivation to go to war can be for any other reason but oil, and defense contractors influence and good ol' boy relationships. Just rich white guys doing each other favours and running the most powerful country, while exploiting the american people. (sorry this is now a different subject, I just feel that power corrupts and absolute power (read: Patriot Act) corrupts absolutely.) I can't think any other way.

 

[seinfeldrules]

who stood to benefit?

Nobody

 

[Operation Ivy]

HAh ok, well if the attacks were intentional and by the US government, then why? who stood to benefit?

I dont even see a reason why the US Govt would attack the Pentagon, with the WTC already hit there would be no reason to take more lives.
Do u really think that we would kill our own people when on that day thousands were already dead. ;(
Theres no way in my mind that the US Govt attacked the pentagon

 

[gooball]

Did you watch the video?
The part of the pentagon that was hit was closed and empty for renovations.

The ultimate reason to go to war immediately, and WITHOUT QUESTION is "Oh ****, they can attack our main military building? We have to go to war now, while our military can function! I feel so insecure.. The Pentagon provides protection, and even it got attacked!! we need to stand behind our President!!"

 

[Operation Ivy]

So are you saying u believe the video?
If there trying to get more support wouldnt they attack a part with ppl in it so more would be dead so more ppl would be angry exc....

 

[Neutrino]

Did you watch the video?
The part of the pentagon that was hit was closed and empty for renovations.

Did you look at the pictures that showed multiple images of airplane wreckage?

 

[gooball]

Think about it this way. The 3 major insitutions that run the country.
Money and commerce = World Trade Center
Defense and Military = Pentagon
Government = Plane crashed in Pennsylvania was "headed towards the White house"

The attacks killed Americans, but they also damaged American's security. Incentive to go to war.

 

[gooball]

Did you look at the pictures that showed multiple images of airplane wreckage?

I don't remember seeing any airplane wreckage. Infact the video shows the exact opposite. To little wreckage.

It all looked like damage and debris from the building.

 

[blahblahblah]

Did you watch the video?
The part of the pentagon that was hit was closed and empty for renovations.

Did you miss the part about 20 plus people in the pentagon who died? Or the 100 people who died from the plane crash?

HAh ok, well if the attacks were intentional and by the US government, then why? who stood to benefit?

I admit that sounded strange. But now that the US is in Iraq, Cheney's former company and their conglomerates are getting all the oil pipeline deals.

It's just hard to think that any motivation to go to war can be for any other reason but oil, and defense contractors influence and good ol' boy relationships. Just rich white guys doing each other favours and running the most powerful country, while exploiting the american people. (sorry this is now a different subject, I just feel that power corrupts and absolute power (read: Patriot Act) corrupts absolutely.) I can't think any other way.

Yup, there was no other way to make 10 million dollars. There are less messy ways to make that money.

 

[gooball]

When you're talking Iraqi oil, you're in the billions. And not just Oil, defense contractors and new business opportunities in a rebuilding country. New market to Americanize.

 

[Operation Ivy]

Man the US must be taking so much oil out of Iraq too, gas prices are so low[/sarcasm]

 

[gooball]

They'll be high for now, but will come down before the election. "Ah things are getting better, why change Presidents?"

 

[gooball]

Why keep the multiple videos that captured the Pentagon attack secret? Why were the videos confiscated within minutes, and never released? Making them public would end all conspiracy theories.

 

[Neutrino]

I don't remember seeing any airplane wreckage. Infact the video shows the exact opposite. To little wreckage.

It all looked like damage and debris from the building.

Please look back a bit in the thread. A lot of this has already been covered.

Here:

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/debris/photorotor.jpg
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/debris/engineRemains.jpg
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/debris/reacteurPilier7D.jpg
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/debris/landinggear002.jpg
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/debris/wheelRim.jpg
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/debris/tyre.jpg
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/debris/jet-tire-2-blocks-away.jpg
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/debris/7725.jpg
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/debris/debrisHR.jpg
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/debris/Pentagon091107.jpg

 

[blahblahblah]

They'll be high for now, but will come down before the election. "Ah things are getting better, why change Presidents?"

The opposite is happening. You have no idea what you are talking about, do you? Gas prices are determined months ahead of time. From the latest prices on crude oil, gas prices will be really high during the presidential election.

When you're talking Iraqi oil, you're in the billions. And not just Oil, defense contractors and new business opportunities in a rebuilding country. New market to Americanize.

Revenue means nothing. Profit means everything. Just because there is a billion dollars worth of revenue in Iraq does not automatically translate into a bunch of profit. Don't confuse the terms revenue with profit.

As for new opportunities, there are many other markets that are cheaper and easier to Americanize.

 

[blahblahblah]

Why keep the multiple videos that captured the Pentagon attack secret? Why were the videos confiscated within minutes, and never released? Making them public would end all conspiracy theories.

Read my previous posts in this thread.

 

[gh0st]

Why keep the multiple videos that captured the Pentagon attack secret? Why were the videos confiscated within minutes, and never released? Making them public would end all conspiracy theories.

you could argue they took them for national security reasons. such as not allowing people to see our weaknesses immediatly after 9/11, etc. i imagine they are in the national archives right now, and you could see them if you wanted. the conspiracy isnt big enough to alarm the whit ehouse, if it did i'm sure they have about a million times more evidence than these "witnesses".

the site is down, so i cant see if there are any sources to the alleged tape stealing. but i imagine there isnt, as conspiracy theorists have plenty of methods to blow their shit out of proportion.

 

[gooball]

Great, thanks for reposting that. I did miss it.
I still won't rule out the possibilty that the US government could've been behind the attacks.

I'm honestly glad that you pointed that out. I'd rather be proven wrong on something if it gets us closer to the truth. Being open minded is what it should be about. Although I'm not American, I think being Patriotic doesn't mean blindly accepting everything you're told by those in power. I think it's looking out for what's right, and carefully watching that no violations of the constitution or any rights are made.

Questioning your government, and watching out for corruption among the tiny minority that run most countries is the right way to love your country. You don't have to love your leaders, you can care for the other 99% of fellow Americans or whatever country you live in.

Anyhow, I need to get to bed, be back tomorrow with more 9/11 skepticism.

 

[gooball]

gh0st, the website is down?
http://www.muchosucko.com/flash/pentagonlies.html#Main
it's a flash animation. Sorry i can't help, i have to go.

 

[Neutrino]

Great, thanks for reposting that. I did miss it.
I still won't rule out the possibilty that the US government could've been behind the attacks.

I'm honestly glad that you pointed that out. I'd rather be proven wrong on something if it gets us closer to the truth. Being open minded is what it should be about. Although I'm not American, I think being Patriotic doesn't mean blindly accepting everything you're told by those in power. I think it's looking out for what's right, and carefully watching that no violations of the constitution or any rights are made.

Questioning your government, and watching out for corruption among the tiny minority that run most countries is the right way to love your country.

Anyhow, I need to get to bed, be back tomorrow with more 9/11 skepticism.

I couldn't agree more. Those are very excellent points. It's just that common sense dictates that I only take things so far when posing legitimate questions about the integrity of the government. And this missile theory does not fall under the umbrella of common sense in my opinoin.

 

[Foxtrot]

What happened to the hijcaked plane? Why would a jet crash into/shoot a missle at the pentagon?

 

[Baal]

Does anyone REALLY believe that a missle hit the pentagon anymore?

I think everyone is just trying to get accross the point that everyone has to keep an open mind about these sorts of things.

Conspiricies and like.

 

[gh0st]

What happened to the hijcaked plane? Why would a jet crash into/shoot a missle at the pentagon?

good point, there were cell phone calls from the flight to families. hard to fake.

 

[h00dlum]

good point, there were cell phone calls from the flight to families. hard to fake.

but cell phones are not allowed on planes, do they even work on a plane? And did the passangers know that they would crash into WTC??

 

[AmishSlayer]

I am way behind...not having read this thread at all...I was making another about the same thing. I haven't read all of this thread...nor do I want to get involved in this giant flamefest/argument.

I just found some of it interesting...I didn't think a plane could actually punch holes in a building like that...but I'm betting it can. People are right...the whole missile/jet theory is filled with holes...

I just find it interesting to look into what other people think what happened. Same sorta thing with the moon landing. Many people think it's a hoax...and I like to watch tv specials and such to see why they think that way even thought I think the hoax theory is rediculus.

 

[blahblahblah]

but cell phones are not allowed on planes, do they even work on a plane? And did the passangers know that they would crash into WTC??

Yes, cell phones are allowed on planes, they request that you turn off cell phones when planes are landing and taking off. Cell phones do work on planes, but they have limited call quality. Ummm, the plane was hijacked.

 

[Baal]

They weren't cell-phones I don't think...They were the phones that are on the planes....They cost like $5 a minute...but when you're being hi-jacked money is probably the least of your worries.


I still can't believe how much that one day...those few hours changed the world...

I'm not even going to attempt to list the things that have changed.

 

[beeop]

where did the plane go? didnt ppl die in it??!!

 

[Neutrino]

where did the plane go? didnt ppl die in it??!!

It went into the pentagon, and yes people died in it.

 

[Razor]

Yeah I think I may as well, some of these people are beyond hope ;(

You seem to believe the us government at face value, you are as foolish to me as the other people who find conspiracies in everything from moon landings to little "green" men.

 

[Razor]

And to everyone who thinks the moon landings were real and little "green" men don't exist, this site proves that not only did the moon landings not exist but that aliens helped in the cover up.

The advanced alien race known as cla-nge'rs are from the distant Andromeda galaxy and are said to be highly advanced and devoid of all emotion, like Vulcans.

http://www.brainsluice.com/miscellanea/misc/moonlanding.html

 

[Sprafa]

The cell phone calls from the aircraft could not have happened. I am a National Security Agency trained Electronic Warfare specialist, and am qualified to say this. My official title: MOS33Q10, Electronic Warfare Intercept Strategic Signal Processing/Storage Systems Specialist, a highly skilled MOS which requires advanced knowledge of many communications methods and circuits to the most minute level. I am officially qualified to place severe doubt that ordinary cell phone calls were ever made from the aircraft.

It was impossible for that to have happened, especially in a rural area for a number of reasons.

When you make a cell phone call, the first thing that happens is that your cell phone needs to contact a transponder. Your cell phone has a max transmit power of five watts, three watts is actually the norm. If an aircraft is going five hundred miles an hour, your cell phone will not be able to 1. Contact a tower, 2. Tell the tower who you are, and who your provider is, 3. Tell the tower what mode it wants to communicate with, and 4. Establish that it is in a roaming area before it passes out of a five watt range. This procedure, called an electronic handshake, takes approximately 45 seconds for a cell phone to complete upon initial power up in a roaming area because neither the cell phone or cell transponder knows where that phone is and what mode it uses when it is turned on. At 500 miles an hour, the aircraft will travel three times the range of a cell phone's five watt transmitter before this handshaking can occur. Though it is sometimes possible to connect during takeoff and landing, under the situation that was claimed the calls were impossible. The calls from the airplane were faked, no if's or buts.

I hope I made sense, if you have questions I will respond if possible. If I do not respond, please research this out yourself, search the boeing site, search the DARPA site, search were you have not searched before. Some of the information is classified and leaked by individuals, and it is also being scoured from the net. I have all of the original documents on my computer to safeguard against this.

Please do not ignore this, because only Norad has the flight codes for those aircraft, we did 911 to ourselves. Hitler had the Reichstag, we have 911. If 911 proves to not be enough to make the US citizenry set aside its rights for safety, the people who did 911 most certainly have access to nuclear material. 911 must be exposed for what it was before that material is used. "

this is a very interesting read.

the rest of the article is way more far-fetched, so keep your mind open. (and that's to you seinfeldeules)

http://www.sianews.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=48

 

[Jammydodger]

Indeed a interesting read.
LOL Razor I allways thought that the clangers were involved :burp:

 

[blahblahblah]

this is a very interesting read.

the rest of the article is way more far-fetched, so keep your mind open. (and that's to you seinfeldeules)

http://www.sianews.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=48

Read the comments below the article. It is hilarious, you can't take this article for real.

Some examples of comments below the article

sorry pal, i've been working in the cell phone industry for YEARS, and your info is outdated at best and plain old ignorant at worst.

here, let me decimate this paragraph, and subsequently your entire argument:

"When you make a cell phone call, the first thing that happens is that your cell phone needs to contact a transponder."

i'll let you slide with this one. transponder is an old black and white sci-fi term, not an industry term.

"Your cell phone has a max transmit power of five watts, three watts is actually the norm."

you don't have a pacemaker or anything, right? that 5 watt analog will fry an egg, old man. today's digitals use less than a watt.

"If an aircraft is going five hundred miles an hour, your cell phone will not be able to 1. Contact a tower, 2. Tell the tower who you are, and who your provider is, 3. Tell the tower what mode it wants to communicate with, and 4. Establish that it is in a roaming area before it passes out of a five watt range."

wrong again. a cell tower's range is between 5 and 20 miles, depending on terrain, weather, etc.
if you leave the range of one tower, the next tower will pick you up, and you won't ever know it. hell, they can pass a call from an analog roaming call to a digital signal, and you can't tell.
and your phone can go through the steps you listed in about 4 seconds.

"This procedure, called an electronic handshake, takes approximately 45 seconds for a cell phone to complete upon initial power up in a roaming area because neither the cell phone or cell transponder knows where that phone is and what mode it uses when it is turned on."

from power up this takes about 6-10 seconds. and the towers can pass you off so you never lose a connection.

"At 500 miles an hour, the aircraft will travel three times the range of a cell phone's five watt transmitter before this handshaking can occur."

i bet you get funny looks when you have to turn the crank on that monster bagphone of yours to "wind up the batteries"....

"Though it is sometimes possible to connect during takeoff and landing, under the situation that was claimed the calls were impossible. The calls from the airplane were faked, no if's or buts."

but... but... you're wrong.

Your data is out of data, modern cell phones do not take 45 seconds to establish a connection with a tower upon powerup in a roaming area. Try it yourself. It takes under 10 seconds (and that is being generous) unless you are on the extreme range and are barely getting any signal.

I'm in a roaming area now. My cell phone is off. Let's turn it on and see, shall we?

Searching.. Searching.. Connected. Voicmail notification. elapsed time: 5.7 seconds. And I'm in a research facility with metal between the walls (read low signal reception). Probably would have been faster if I was sanding outside but it would have been hard to drag my computer stopwatch out there.

Given the heavily populated areas which the planes were flying over, I would assume there would be at least a couple towers and/or relays that the phones could hook up to. They also probably had direct line-of-sight working for them, and the lack of anything but the plane's hull blocking direct contact.

Furthermore, a visit to Boeing's home page, as you suggested, did not confirm your claims, Perhaps if you posted a URL?

I have one for you: http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_03/fo/fo01/story.html

In which it clearly states that "At bank angles greater than 67 degrees, level flight cannot be maintained within flight manual limits for a 2.5 g load factor" Furthermore, there is a link in that article showing Boeing passenger planes rated up to about 3g's of force for SAFE emergency recovery maneuvers. However, the planes in question were neither flying level, nor were they intended to survive the extreme banking the pilots were subjecting them to. Therefore one could conclude that a pilot could force the plane into a relatively high-g turn if he wasn't expecting to stay within safe operating limits.

I suggest you do a little more research before trying to spread your anti-government messages (that was your intent, right? Without saying it, you are basically saying the entire 9/11 ordeal is a government scheme/coverup -- who else could manufacture cell phone calls, who else could "take control" of a passenger-filled 757 and fly it into a building?)

Come back to the real world. I am. I have that voicemail to answer =P

And it goes on and on. It is really funny.

 

[Sprafa]

You finnaly managed to get me on one blahblahblah.

 

[ATI4EVER!]

I believe the movie. I was really near the pentagon when it happened, I herad no 757 roar, it was more like a msisile (like all the quotes said), therefore I can tell you that the movie is for real.

But, as bloop said, where the hell did that plane go? Passengers? wtf? anyways its weird, but there was no plane. And in the pentagon security camera (in the mov) there is no plane.