Gun sticklers: likes, dislikes, wants for HL2 guns.

[Rocketman9mm]

Of course some weapons are going to be similar? I mean what can they do? make every single gun some weird contraption? Gordon still has to get his weapons from what he can find, and pistols and shotguns are mainstays of FPS games. Personally I'm glad some regular ones are there still. That USP Match pistols is a little less detailed and far less realistic looking than I would of hoped. Anyone familair with handguns will see that the way the slide is sistuated on the receiver is so far off it's funny and does the hammer even move? i hope it does, for the revolver too. Plus the animations are off; I dind't see any thumb movement whatsoever as far as ejecting the mag or depressing the slide release. slide just magically returns forward. I was hoping to see a highly detailed glock, with high rez skin and all, but alas. the colt python .357 mag looks completely bad ass though.

One thing that bothered me in the E32k4 vid is that they seemed to have lowered the spas12's capacity to 6 shells for some ungodly reason. A real one can hold 8, and it already is a slow loading weapon and now they are making us reload more often?

The rpg looks far more realistic, after an AT4 rocket, though laser pointing is still pretty silly, but who cares next to gravity guns.

I like the fact that they have a seperate Rifle from the SMG, hopefully it will be true to what it is and be more damaging and more accurate long range. I just don't like the rifle they chose for it. 1) the OICW is a dying weapon that is not really gonna be in heavy use if at all, 2) the bastard is big, boxy, ugly and takes up half of your view.

I hope we get a stun batton in addition to the crowbar. It'd be badass to be able to use it Deus Ex style sneakin and shockin.

That new energy weapon with the seperate cylinders hanging on the front, from what I saw in the vid, does teh same thing that the large cannon on the strider does but on a smaller scale.

But dear god I hope they improve the grenade launcher system. In HL1, it was what looked like a chopped down m203 put on that mp5. Gordon could fire off 10 in a row. but the m203 is a breech loaded single shot weapon, that has a casing and everything like a giant bullet. Second, that grenade travels a HELL OF A LOT faster, more accurate and farther than the grenade in HL did. They somehow thought to put a grenade launcher on another increadibly unlikely platform of the mp7 pdw. THis gun is far smaller than even the mp5, has NOWHERE to put any kind of grenade launcher or loading mechanism, and the didnt' even bother to model such a device.

Is the ejected casing system the same as hl1 where they disappear after a second? I'd like to see you be able to fire the rounds and see the spent casings of brass, shotgun shells and empty magazines lying permanently ALA Max Payne 2. but this is just a desire and I know it won't happen.

I'd also like to see an Ironsights mode like in call of duty but this is another cool thing that surely won't be in the game. It'd also be cool to have situationis where your weapon jams and you have to hit a key to unjam it, causing a cool animation to happen like in America's Army, or having to hit reload instead of an auto one. (not sure if this could be turned off in the first one or not)

And finally. it would be good if the grenades didn't make big firey explosions, but made the loud concussion explosion as real ones do. flashbangs would also be nice when you want to suprise enemies but not waste grenades.


What do you guys think about the guns or what would you like to see that you likely think will not be in the game? Preferably people who actually have experience with guns and know the intricacies with them as I do should reply here.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

In terms of immersing the player and telling the story, all those things you mentioned are trivial.

Weapon jams MAY cause a certain increase in tension and axiety, which is quite a powerful emotional response, but the rest seem extremely pointless to me. But that's just me.

 

[Scapegoat]

Yea some things do work in games that compliment them, but things like gun jamming and ironsights wouldn't work with Half-Life 2's formula.

 

[Sprafa]

OICW is a dying weapon?

As far as I heard, the OICW is still planned for mass production after the M8.

And the MP7 grenade launcher - we are not sure about that.

grenades in HL2 seem to make more smoke and "BANG!" than fire, which I think is realistic. And flashbangs won't be in the game, to continue with the simplism of it.

 

[Stingey]

Lets seee
Iron sight for a arcade game = useless
Wapon jamming = for the realism freaks, i would jam my head into my monitor if my rpg fails when im standing next to a strider.
Grenades = they dont make a large explosion, or we've seen different video's

 

[jonesey2k]

IMO The best weapon models and animations are found in a game called VIETCONG. That game has ironsights and is one of, if not the, most immersive games ive ever played!

 

[mbrithoms]

man alot of you folk are gonna be really dissapointed when this gets released, its finally gone past all expectations that valve now, can never match

 

[Esquire]

ive always adored Hl1's weapons. As i said in another thread, theyve got that oomph to them.

Though, for such a futuristic game with portals and dimensions and so forth, i would like to see more sci-fi type weapons.

at the end of hl1 gman had the power to make a portal appear out of nowhere, so i think it would be cool to have a portal gun or something. Yeah that could work.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

man alot of you folk are gonna be really dissapointed when this gets released, its finally gone past all expectations that valve now, can never match

That's the unfortunate risk every company takes when they decide to delay a game for close to a year. HL1 was lucky in that Valve were a pack of nobodies back then and the hype for it was 1/100th of the hype for HL2.

It is still just a FPS where you point your gun and shoot things =)

 

[daveodeth]

i don't get the obssesion with the guns, as long as they are meaty who cares. Guns withought interesting opponents to use them on are dull.

 

[Esquire]

Daveodeth: "i don't get the obssesion with the guns, as long as they are meaty who cares. Guns withought interesting opponents to use them on are dull."

Man that is so true. Ive never been able to understand why people like Halo so much. I HATED that game. Well it was alright i guess. But when i shoot someone i want red blood. Not green, not blue not orange. None of them colours. And those little aliens that hopped around making silly noises. They drove me nuts.
And the assault rifle in Halo was awful aswell. The reticle was far too large.

An so what i like about HL and HL2 is the weapons and the enemies really. Yeah there were zombies and aliens in HL1 but there were also the marines. And also the zombies had red blood in their bodies, just not their heads/headcrab.

 

[dæmon]

If I was to ask for one addition the weapons, it would be to add moving components as seen in Battlefield Vietnam, e.g. the ammunition jangling as you run along, or the sling hook flapping in and out. Or perhaps Freeman quickly glancing into the breech before loading another magazine. That said, none of the weapons I've seen in Half Life 2 yet look as if these features would add anything to the game.

I hope they've added something similar to the old idle animations though, such as twanging the crossbow wires or prodding snarks.

 

[NeLi]

so i think it would be cool to have a portal gun or something. Yeah that could work.

They had one in Half-Life: Opposing Forces.

 

[Esquire]

oh yeah i remember reading about that. They should put it in HL2.

 

[PvtRyan]

What's with these realism freaks these days? HL2 with ironsights? For f*cks sake, stop it please! HL1 didn't have it, it had many weapon inconsistencies (MP5 or M4A1 with 50 round mags?) but it didn't matter cause it worked beautfully. Adding useless crap like ironsights and jamming will only take that great pace out of the game.

Realism where realism is due... NOT IN HALF-LIFE!

kthxbye!

 

[Rocketman9mm]

lol, chill ppl just thoughts. Ironsights and jamming are just nifty features I feel they add to the experience in some games, they work beautifully in call of duty and America's Army but maybe they just aren't right for HL2.

You're never gonna convince me, though, that having proper weapon functioning is useless in a game where miniscule details are one of the major selling points in the game (how physics are so "realisitc" regarding every little object in game). SOME people who like these games also like the guns used in them, and since they bother making all the maps and characters looking as real as possible, why not the guns? Once you get them, they'll be on screen more than any one object because at least one will always be on screen. HL2's models aren't that bad, but they aren't perfect either. wouldn't you care if it were a orange and pink supersoaker watergun looking gun that fired a hal of bullets (extreme example but gives my point) and that kinda what it is like to people who know guns. Just kind of irkes you (gun ppl) when they decide to make a shooting game then don't bother to learn how guns work.

OH and snarks! i loved those little guys. In DM I hide and collect the suckers then unleash my unholy army on poor schmoes who walk by yelling "get him my pretties!" I hope they are back in some form or another.

I'm not expecting all these things in the game. it's more of a "wouldn't it be cool if" thread. maybe some mod maker will come along and do these things.

 

[Rocketman9mm]

What's with these realism freaks these days? HL2 with ironsights? For f*cks sake, stop it please! HL1 didn't have it, it had many weapon inconsistencies (MP5 or M4A1 with 50 round mags?) but it didn't matter cause it worked beautfully. Adding useless crap like ironsights and jamming will only take that great pace out of the game.

Realism where realism is due... NOT IN HALF-LIFE!

kthxbye!

then I guess you're not a fan of the new physics engine?

 

[PvtRyan]

then I guess you're not a fan of the new physics engine?

What has that got to do with anything? I'm saying HL(2) doesn't need realistic weapons, it works great without it and adding stuff like ironsights just takes the speed out of the game. Physics don't have anything to do with it.

 

[Rocketman9mm]

ah. you just said realism in general, and I don't separate realsim from how gravity works then from how real world guns work. Realistic gun function has every bit as much to do with physics as how other objects react due to physics. How hard is it and how much would it change the game to ad hammer movment or have gordon actually hit the proper mechanisms on a weapon? I do see your point on how things like special views would change the flow of the game, though. Like I said, just thoughts, not "they better have this or it will suck"

 

[JonTheCanuck]

the thing i didn't like about the mp5 or the m16 depending if u had high def pack, was that when u shoot u can see the bullets and it makes some stupid cone spray pattern, it felt so inaccurate. Also, people that know how the weaopns function, the reload animations r off where often they jsut slide the clip out and slide another in and start shooting without cocking the weapon, or hitting the forward assist. Its not really a big deal but everytime i reload its something i notice that wouldn't have taken much time to insert into the game.

 

[Jadewolf5675]

Realism in a game like HL2 is great up to the point where it deteriorates game play. For example, climbing a latter with no hands. Who cares? It helps keep the speed of the game going. Stuff like weapons jamming has no place in HL2.

 

[OoGoff]

I would be funny to see someone make a super real game. Where u run outta clips and u have to spend 10miniutes loading each bullet into a clip and dropping them on the ground then ur gun jams and u have to smakc it and reload and clear the chamber. U cant run more than 30seconds and then when u get tired u hear a panting noise for the n next 3 minutes. You have to change cloths because you pooped ur pantz. You have an itch and ur character is unresponsive and slow. Whenever you run into a wall you get dmged. You trip[ and fall in the stupidest situations.
And for the people maklng it, they could see how much code is wasted on the jamming sequnece and triping system alone. Omg its justs illy what some poeple want. I hope gamez are super unrealistic. I would hate to be in a game and have to sit in a corner and wait to load a clip and shizzle like that.

 

[dream431ca]

May I remind you that this is science FICTION....FICTION. Not real. So don't expect guns to be extremely accurate when it comes to detail and how the character holds it.

 

[Victor2]

Just to make something clear, there were a few mistakes in the E32K4 video regarding weapons in HL2, the ammo capacity from Spas-12, already mentioned and also the imaginary grenade launcher underneath the MP-7.

 

[evil^milk]

Likes:

USP - lightweight yet powerful weapon, small but accurate, has an "efficient" feel whenever you shoot it at whatever you shoot it

.357 - capable of a powerful blast, extremely accurate, "heavy and powerful" feeling

MP7 - rapid firing bullets that give a punching feel to whatever it's fired at, GL

shotgun - shotgun

The rest are just as great, I think the weapons in HL2 are balanced and each offers a different "firing purpose" (ain't i crazy now)

 

[dassbaba]

All I want to see is a really big variety of guns, the more the merrier.

 

[Rocketman9mm]

I remember when I first played through the origional half life. I was so thrilled to see a game where they actually loaded the shotgun shell by shell, not just non stop shooting of your entire supply ala doom or quake.

 

[poseyjmac]

doom2 double barrel shotgun, you reloaded every shell

 

[CrazyHarij]

I don't want the game to have ironsights or weapon jams.. however it'd be interesting in a mod.

 

[Warbie]

I can't stand ironsights!

While they suit the more 'realistic' war sims, they don't have a place in action orientated fps, imo of course

 

[Mad Dog]

I can't stand ironsights!

While they suit the more 'realistic' war sims, they don't have a place in action orientated fps, imo of course

Depending on the game, I'd probably agree, but iron sights would be a welcome feature in any shooting game, so long as it's optional.

I can see people preferring crosshairs over the sights to be sure, but I simply can't imagine any shooter fan trying iron sights and just casting them out altogether. They add SO much immersion when they're done right. Besides Vietcong, one excellent example is CoD, where the use of iron sights is 100% optional. Circle strafing a group of nazi infantry with a blazing STG 44 has it's own merits, but it just feels cold in comparison to staring those bastards down from the barrel, and delivering a load of ballistic lead right into their sinus cavities. It's the difference between me telling my dude "shoot those guys" and ME taking out the trash, personally....with EXTREME PREDJUDICE!

Your individual feelings on this are sure to vary, but Iron Sights are always good feature to have. And I believe this will be a feature you see more often in the games of tomorrow, right along with ragdall effects, integrated physics, and deformable terrain.

Incidentally, I think of HL2 as more of a "crosshairs" game than an "iron sights" game, but I can't waith to see Iron Sights in the mods. Should be fun!

 

[Crusader]

Alien space-ships fly through the air, no-one bats an eyelid. Now if they don't use the forward assist on an imaginary gun, that's just plain ridiculous.

 

[Ames]

Here's my reasoning: If I hate one of the HL2 weapons, I either change it or delete it....

I think that's good reasoning.

 

[CrazyHarij]

Alien space-ships fly through the air, no-one bats an eyelid. Now if they don't use the forward assist on an imaginary gun, that's just plain ridiculous.

So true, hehe.. But it's kinda a case of realism in a fictional world. People don't want to jump 1000 feet just because there are lasers and aliens in the game.

 

[Stormy]

Its a game, the weapon system will be made right for the game. HL isnt ment to be totaly realistic.

 

[snark^]

OICW is a dying weapon?

As far as I heard, the OICW is still planned for mass production after the M8.

It's gone: too heavy, too bulky, too expensive. What they're doing is taking the 20mm grenade part of it (upgrading it to 25mm) and turning it into a squad support weapon called the XM25 (also redesigned to make it look like part of teh XM8 'family'). To compensate for the loss of the cut-down G36 underslung 5.56mm they're giving it some flechette rounds.


As for the HL2 realism argument I lean mainly towards the realism end, though not so far as to include ironsight views or jams -- HL sits comfortably somewhere between the Ghost Recons and Dooms of the gaming world. Some realism is expected, even with the wholly skiffy backdrop.

It's all to do with the verisimilitude. I can handle the SPAS12 only having 6 shots instead of 8 because at least the capabilities of weapon aren't being changed too drastically. Ditto, the rocket launcher that's as easy to guide in the air as a laser pen (and that also miraculously doubles as both anti-air and anti-tank). The first example is just a minor game-balancing change to the weapon's stats; the seond something that's probably not to far off in the future for the real world.

Giving something as small as the MP7 a grenade launching capability is going too far into the bogus though. If you're going to change the gun that much why make it look so much like a SMG that we know all the capabilities of to begin with? At least HL1's MP5 had the launcher tube slung underneath to provide some attempt to fake the appearance of truth.


Attached pix are the US military's XM-25 project

 

[snark^]

... and as for wants: I just wanna see the gauss gun back in man-portable form besides being mounted on the buggy. Blatting foes through the walls was one of the undescribable thrills of HL1's SP and deathmatch play.

 

[Brian Damage]

I don't really care if the guns aren't perfectly accurately modeled, or if Gordon, (Who, by the way, wears a suit of powered armour, is in contact with aliens, and can kill a fearsome zombie creature with a crowbar) can maintain accuracy while firing from the hip.

Uberrealistic weaponry functions don't really fit the theme of HL2. Ironsights in HL2, for instance, wouldn't suit most people's HL2 preferences methinks.

You want a realistic Half-Life 2? Go mod it in.

 

[Ollibolli]

Gameplay is far more important than realism...

I mean, *I* wouldn't run around spraying bullets like crazy if I was being shot at, I would be lying flat on the ground, preferrably behind some very good cover...

If I saw my enemy first, I would shoot one or two rounds, move or take cover, shoot again and so on... No way I'd spend half my clip shooting full-auto, that would be pretty stupid as I'd have to reload much sooner, and I'd probably not hit anything either.

That kind of gameplay belongs in ultra-realism shooter like Raven Shield, not in an action FPS like HL2. In a game like this, you should be too immersed in the action to even notice your character shouldn't be able to carry several full-sized rifles at once, or that he should have run out of clips by now or that you can't reload a real AT4.

Having accurate animations for reloading is a nice bonus though...

As for iron sights, I think they reduce your vision too much to be good in a game where you often have very many things going on on the screen at once. The only time I think using "real" sights for immersion should be used in a game like this is when you use a sniper rifle. When you snipe at people you will probably have very few targets and very little else to think about, so in that case the immersion won't hinder gameplay.

HL2 is not about sneaking around getting killed by something you didn't even see in one shot, it's about fast paced action.

 

[Slime]

I'm getting really sick of these realism threads... Half-life 2 is a sequel to Half-life, not the uber game that involves every particle of the world. Some people can't get over it... or so it seems. If some other game has much more realistic gun... things, then play it. HL2 is not going to be a super game, you know!