Half-Life 2, The New Deus Ex

Deus-Ex was an incredible game. Half-Life and Deus-Ex both simply rules. Two of the greatest games ever.
 
Logic said:
Back when I was 8 years old, I could be totally immersed in an episode of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Over time, my tastes have matured and changed in various ways. You might find in a couple of years that Painkiller, or Far Cry, no longer immerse you. But personal taste aside, you can't deny that some games are more atmospheric than others. I'm sure you wouldn't argue that Pac-Man is just as atmospheric as Half-Life, right? And it's not because you're sitting there thinking "Oh this plot is silly. Look at the dum-dum AI. Oh man Gordon is such a better character."

You shouldn't assume that if someone isn't immersed in a game it's because that person is uptight. They may simply have different personal taste to you, be of a different demographic, or perhaps even want some intellectual stimulation from their gaming. The fact that I'm not immersed by the latest 'Barbie' CDrom does not make me uptight. If you can find games like that immersive, then by all means, join a Barbie forum, and eagerly await their next release. :rolleyes:
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Excellent response. Teenage mutant ninja turtles was indeed fantastic!!...when i was 9 years old. I didn't question dialogue, i didn't question the story. Now a show of that calibre would hold my interest for about 3 seconds. That's why being a kid rocks.

Though once you mature it's harder to be impressed with such simplicity, you want something more interesting, something with more depth and intelligent thinking. Well, perhaps not for everyone but Far Cry was a mind numbing experience for me, it justifies the common opinion that "computer games are a waste of time".

Games like Half-Life on the other hand totally destroy that cliche. When you're immersed in a world like that, wasting time is of no concern.
 
Can everybody all stop and agree "yes Deus Ex was great" Now get over it.
 
I remember the cyber chicks from System Shock, the sound they made was HAUNTING. That was a great game.
 
HL2 will hopefully be better than anything we have ever seen before in fps gaming. Better than Deus Ex, better than it all...:D
 
System Shock 2 is incredibly scary. Scared me almost as much as Silent Hill 2 (which simply cannot be beaten).

I hope in HL2, there will be some tense scary moments, which I hope Ravenholm can deliver. I remember the original HL, and how a lot of the chapters (especially the second one, after everything goes wrong) genuinly frightened me. Ones like Blast Pit, Unforseen Consequences and the opening to Lambda Core (the descent down the lift, which I still cite as one of the most atmospheric moments in the game). Hopefully Valve hasn't forgotten how to scare people. :)
 
i like this thread. finally something worth while and a pleasure to read

i agree with the original poster that DE had awsome sense of atmosphere

parts of far cry were awsome in that respect too mostly the well thought out outdoor levels.
doom 3 feels like a forced atmosphere mainly because of the invisible trap walls and the omg predictable spawn points.. wow did that game suck

but half life 2's style is even when watching the video you can't help to be pulled into the game ... valve has a huge amount of talent when it comes to originality and gameplay and atmosphere and i think thats mainly because they don't have a strict deadline...

i felt ICO (if anyone played that) had awsome character development and atmosphere was a pleasure to look at and be around in. i feel that the girl in ico was the best npc that you had to take care of in any game ever.. usually those types of npcs are annoying. ex: girl from farcry..

plus i think that the atmosphere for hl2 works cause of the little nuances in detail and sound detail that add up.. and thats just amazing..

also a release would be nice too.
 
HL2 should easily be better than Deus ex 1 or 2 even though the second wasn't as good as the first.
 
I think a large portion of the people who disliked DE played a maximum of 3 or so levels.
 
While Half Life 2 may have a similar atmosphere to Deus Ex, and if it does, that will be bloody amazing, I don't see it having some of the features that helped make Deus Ex great.. For a start the conversations & text lying around (really helped with the atmosphere). Also, while it may have large maps (the buggy thing), from what I've seen from the videos, it's a fairly linear playthrough.. Deus Ex's unlinear gameplay (more variation with skills/augs etc) really helped make the game great.

Anyway, if HL2 does have a similar atmosphere - fantastic, but from what I've seen it doesn't try to do all that Deus Ex did. Not that it necessarily should mind you - two different styles of games.

Demon Wraith said:
I can't play DE with sound anymore. :(
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I haven't read the remainder of the thread, so someone might already have mentioned this, but have you tried disabling hardware sound acceleration? To do so go to the sound properties section in control panel, and look around there. As far as I can recall, you need to click on one of the 'advanced' buttons.
 
I can respect that Fusion and Logic have opinions that differ from mine, but I don't believe it's because you're more "mature" than me. Simple fact is, if I looked at games the way you guys do, I wouldn't enjoy most of the game I love. I couldn't imagnie a world where Far Cry, Doom 3, UT2004 or any of my AAA games were considered "mind numbing," or boring. And once again I ask, what the hell is meant by the term "atmospheric?" No one can answer that because none of you actually know.
 
iamaelephant said:
I can respect that Fusion and Logic have opinions that differ from mine, but I don't believe it's because you're more "mature" than me. Simple fact is, if I looked at games the way you guys do, I wouldn't enjoy most of the game I love. I couldn't imagnie a world where Far Cry, Doom 3, UT2004 or any of my AAA games were considered "mind numbing," or boring. And once again I ask, what the hell is meant by the term "atmospheric?" No one can answer that because none of you actually know.
Click to expand...

It's a good mix of Sounds, Visuals and Storyline.
 
I think all games should be allowed to stand on their own merit, even if personal tastes might differ. I certainly would not expect an arcade-styled game to be very immersive or atmospheric or a point&click adventure game to have very deep gameplay but both may be perfectly fun.
In the case of Deus Ex, I felt that the amount of attention to detail and how well thought out everything in the world was really made the game's 'atmosphere' stand out. Everything had an impact on you. A background and setting wasn't just slapped in on top of the basic game. I do think that some games have a better developed atmosphere that feels more natural and rich than other games where atmosphere is contrived around the game
(usually in the form of visuals and not much more).
I don't feel that Deus Ex's storytelling was as effective as HL (though DX's non-linear approach made it much more difficult to do) and it is storytelling that is the focus of HL2 so I don't see the games as being very similar.
 
Tenaku said:
A game with atmosphere? how about system shock 2.... deus ex always seemed like it was just an ss2 wannabe to me. good, but nowhere near the level of atmosphere and style that ss2 had...
Click to expand...

System Shock 2 was phenomenal. The ship, ghosts, and use of sounds made the player feel dread and despair. It also had the RPG element to it.
 
iamaelephant said:
And once again I ask, what the hell is meant by the term "atmospheric?" No one can answer that because none of you actually know.
Click to expand...

It's one of those words that's just plan hard to define. I'll just quote from dictionary.com, it does a pretty good job of describing it.

at·mos·phere Audio pronunciation of "atmosphere" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tm-sfîr)
n.

4. A dominant intellectual or emotional environment or attitude: an atmosphere of distrust among the electorate.
5. The dominant tone or mood of a work of art.
6. An aesthetic quality or effect, especially a distinctive and pleasing one, associated with a particular place: a restaurant with an Old World atmosphere.
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Though in the end, it is a pretty ambiguous word, which is what makes it hard to describe in words. It's like describing what it's like to smell.
 
HL2 (from what we know) and DX are to totally different games that just happen to both be played in first person.

Beyond that HL2 (judging from the HL2 movies) and DX gameplay were also totally different. HL2 is your standard (that HL1 set)FPS and DX was a mix between Thief and System Shock.

In DX running and gunning just got you killed until later in the game when your implants made you almost god (and later literally :)).

As for atmosphere HL2 by looking at the movies and screen shots it looks to try to have a realistic surreal feel to it. DX on the other hand was very dark both visually and mentally. Although both are considered sci-fi HL2 and DX are defiantly different styles.

Both really are different games and its like comparing apples and oranges.

Now if you want to really compare the merits of 2 similar games try Serious Sam and Painkiller. Now that’s apples and apples :)
 
Those robots in SS2 "Sir, can I help you. Please come here sir" scared the farking crap out of me. I'd hear one and madly run about trying to find a box to jump on and then have to stay there watching those cursed robots 'cause my 3 pistols and 2 shotguns were broke. I love SS2....although I can't imagine a Marine being as retarded with weapons as you were in SS2.
 
I agree with you Tiddick.

HL2 will be one of the greatest games ever made if they get the atmosphere just right.

btw, Deus Ex had 4 endings not just 3. :)
 
What are you guys talking about? Damn!!! ContraIII beats all those crappy games. When you're hanging from the ceiling shooting at ninjas while dodging fireballs from the giant robotic dragon whose also hitting you with his tail then you will learn a lot about atmosphere. tsk tsk tsk
 
Hazar Dakiri said:
I agree with you Tiddick.

HL2 will be one of the greatest games ever made if they get the atmosphere just right.

btw, Deus Ex had 4 endings not just 3. :)
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:O :thumbs: Well I suppose if you count the secret ending with the crazy dancing
 
Deus Ex = Best game of all time.

Blood = never played it but i will look into it asap.
 
iamaelephant said:
I can respect that Fusion and Logic have opinions that differ from mine, but I don't believe it's because you're more "mature" than me. Simple fact is, if I looked at games the way you guys do, I wouldn't enjoy most of the game I love. I couldn't imagnie a world where Far Cry, Doom 3, UT2004 or any of my AAA games were considered "mind numbing," or boring. And once again I ask, what the hell is meant by the term "atmospheric?" No one can answer that because none of you actually know.
Click to expand...
Again you're presuming to know how we look at games. Once again, I'll put it to you that I don't think you can be immersed by ANY game, and that you find the games you've listed immersive simply because they appeal to your personal taste. So.. CAN you find Barbie games immersive? The whole reason I asked that in the first place is because I don't think you would personally find such games immersive (or atmospheric for that matter), thus proving that you like your games because they happen to appeal to your tastes, not because your approach to gaming is so superior to ours that you can be immersed in any game whatsoever, as you have indicated.

It's all about personal taste and opinion - it's subjective. The fact that you don't find Far Cry mind numbing doesn't make someone wrong for thinking so. Your opinion is not fact. As I suggested earlier, in time, your own tastes will change, and you might find it mind numbing too. Don't think I'm trying to insult you by calling you 'immature', that's not my point at all. I'm just saying that different people appreciate different things at different times of their lives, and that personal taste changes over time. A few years ago I would have loved a game like Far Cry, yet I too found it rather mind numbing. Not because I'm sitting there scrutinising it. It was an involuntary reaction, according to my personal taste. No matter how much of a chance I gave the game, or how much I played it to appreciate it for what it was, it never immersed me all that much.

I consider the term "atmospheric" to mean "having qualities that create a distinctive, strong and believable sense of what a place is like and give you a unique sensation of being there", or something along those lines. An atmospheric game (or movie) creates a sort of emotional response from the player\viewer. While a game like Far Cry certainly had some atmosphere, that atmosphere wasn't unique enough (according to my own experiences and personal taste, again subjective) to really draw me into the world. Apart from not finding the style and plot of the game appealing, various aspects of the game constantly reminded me that I was playing a game. Once again, though, I'll point out that this is subjective, and that I am neither correct or incorrect for disliking Far Cry, and you are neither correct or incorrect for liking it.

You are, however, incorrect to suggest that you know how we think, and that it's our flawed thinking that is responsible for disliking a game that you like. I absolutely guarantee that there are games in existance that you won't like, and won't find immersive, because they don't appeal to your personal taste. There is a very important distinction between what is fact and what is subjective. I'm only trying to make you aware of it.
 
Styloid said:
I think all games should be allowed to stand on their own merit, even if personal tastes might differ. I certainly would not expect an arcade-styled game to be very immersive or atmospheric or a point&click adventure game to have very deep gameplay but both may be perfectly fun.
In the case of Deus Ex, I felt that the amount of attention to detail and how well thought out everything in the world was really made the game's 'atmosphere' stand out. Everything had an impact on you. A background and setting wasn't just slapped in on top of the basic game. I do think that some games have a better developed atmosphere that feels more natural and rich than other games where atmosphere is contrived around the game
(usually in the form of visuals and not much more).
I don't feel that Deus Ex's storytelling was as effective as HL (though DX's non-linear approach made it much more difficult to do) and it is storytelling that is the focus of HL2 so I don't see the games as being very similar.
Click to expand...
Yes that probably true, how well developed a game's atmosphere can probably be recognised regardless of personal taste, but by the same token, a game with a brilliantly developed, deep sense of atmosphere may not immerse someone whose personal taste is not compatable with the game, just as a game with a forced, shallow, or underdeveloped sense of atmosphere can completely immerse someone whose personal tastes are completely compatable with the game. So I guess the the depth of atmosphere in a game, as determined by things like the detail of the world, believability of the setting, etc, is generally visible on an intellectual level, whether or not you like a game, but how much depth of atmosphere, or what type of atmosphere, is required to create the involuntary reaction of immersion, does depend on personal taste.
 
Raziel-Jcd said:
Deus Ex = Best game of all time.

Blood = never played it but i will look into it asap.
Click to expand...

Blood was made by Monolith studios in 1997 (around the same time as quake). It uses the build engine (the last time I believe), the same one that powered duke, but much more upgraded.

Blood is as follows:
Not the best of graphics
Trouble to run (very much dos, and if you cant get the sound then don't try and play)
EXTREMELY FUN
Easy, or an EXTREME challenge (very good difficulty settings)
Deathmatch crazyness, or coop
Good atmosphere in many levels.

Basically its a horror with style with well designed levels and guns.

If you suddenly play it now, you would think that the graphics were utter crap, but once you play the game you learn that they suit it very well.
Blood is my favourite FPS to this day (lets see what HL2 can do).

Unfortunatly for it, the people that own the rights to this game are not releasing the source code, meaning its becoming harder and harder to get running in all its glory. The fools are killing one of the best and unknown games of all time.
 
Raziel-Jcd said:
Deus Ex = Best game of all time.

Blood = never played it but i will look into it asap.
Click to expand...

While you're at it look up Shadow Warrior, another camp masterpiece. :p

BTW nice discussion, Logic.

I too felt that Far Cry lost some of its appeal once I got a little further in the game. I loved the whole trouble-in-paradise angle it took right off the bat, but the gameplay was medicore at best. Same run-gun style gaming that didn't really try anything new. What really killed me were the one liners from the soldiers, my favorite being: "eat my ass!" [/sarcasm] I wonder which one of the developers' kid was brought aboard to help write the script. :dork: Ultimately Far Cry was disappointing in that respect, the lush jungle paradise would have made for an intriguing backdrop had the story building taken advantage of it.

Hopefully S.T.A.L.K.E.R. will push narration/story further than Far Cry did.
 
Shadow Warrior! I'd almost forgotten about that game. Better than Blood, in my opinion (although Blood was very cool). Arg, there's another really cool old FPS and I can't quite remember the name of it.... something like Return of the Triads or something..... bah! Can't remember :( Something about Triads anyway. Very, very cool game.

Edit: Rise of the Triads!! Look it up, I played this game for so many hours, I personally found it ten times more fun than Duke, Doom and Blood put together. One of the greatest FPS games of all time. It had everything - awesome weapons (including double pistols), Hand of God, great enemies, awesome level design. Very cool game.
 
iamaelephant said:
Edit: Rise of the Triads!! Look it up, I played this game for so many hours, I personally found it ten times more fun than Duke, Doom and Blood put together. One of the greatest FPS games of all time. It had everything - awesome weapons (including double pistols), Hand of God, great enemies, awesome level design. Very cool game.
Click to expand...

If memory serves, the levels were corridors filled with enemies...
 
Cybernoid said:
If memory serves, the levels were corridors filled with enemies...
Click to expand...

Youe memory serves you incorrectly. The game was made up of loads of huge envrionments filled with people to shoot. :)
 
Just on the subject of atmospheric games.. another one that comes to mind that I'd kind of forgotten about is Outcast. Quite an amazing, cinematic experience. Visually stunning for it's time, too. Very immersive. It's also a perfect example of how a great soundtrack can make the whole experience that much better.
 
Logic said:
Just on the subject of atmospheric games.. another one that comes to mind that I'd kind of forgotten about is Outcast. Quite an amazing, cinematic experience. Visually stunning for it's time, too. Very immersive. It's also a perfect example of how a great soundtrack can make the whole experience that much better.
Click to expand...

That was a very underrated and undersold game. It was even more stunning for the fact that it was done entirely in software and looked just as good as some 3D accelerated games for that time. Really wonderful game.
 
Tiddalick said:
While listening to the Deus Ex soundtrack I realised something...

To those of you that have played Deus Ex (I trust most of you) the game stood out from the others in two main areas.
1.Story
2.Atmosphere

The entire time through Deus Ex you can feel the weight of the situation as you try to discover what is ultimatly happening and resolve it in how you see fit (3 endings).

Now casting my mind to the sections of Half-Life 2 that we have seen, I feel that a strong feeling of atmosphere is there too (Well done Atmosphere is rare, and excellent if it is). The small section through the train station with the music and Dr Breen speaking really add to that oppressed feeling (as with the Tenements section), I find that effective atmosphere is very rare in games, and those that have it truly standout from the rest.

I list that only two games to date have had truly excellent atmosphere:
Blood
Deus Ex

If Half-Life 2 has atmosphere and story that is Omnipresent (with slight variation between oppression and need for action, eg train station to the docks/crane) and not Staggering, then it will be the best game ever released to date.
;)


EXTRA
Note: I place great distinction between atmosphere that is too forced (staggering) to that which is done elegantly (Omnipresent).
Not to start flame war, but I will list some games where I think the distinction is different.
Example: Omnipresent games and levels.
Blood, eg e4m4 or e2m4 e2m5 e1m1 e1m2 to name a few (to those of you who know about blood)
Deus Ex, most of the game
etc

I realise that many of you would place AVP or say Doom3 in this catogory, but to me the atmosphere was too forced. How is it different? Well to give one example, you are always aware that at some stage an enemy WILL jump out at you.
An elegant atmosphere does not suggest this, instead draws you into the game without allowing you to infer what might happen.
To be fair to AVP and Doom3, to do a horror game I think it would be very, very hard to make anything with atmosphere where the jumping out wouldn't be part of it.
Click to expand...
what about the nomad soul?
 
Tiddalick said:
:O :thumbs: Well I suppose if you count the secret ending with the crazy dancing
Click to expand...

nope, it's a legit one. :)
 
I never got through Deus Ex... I just shot the chief and hid in the bathroom while he tried to nuke me with some kind of cannon...
 
Tiddalick said:
Blood was made by Monolith studios in 1997 (around the same time as quake). It uses the build engine (the last time I believe), the same one that powered duke, but much more upgraded.

Blood is as follows:
Not the best of graphics
Trouble to run (very much dos, and if you cant get the sound then don't try and play)
EXTREMELY FUN
Easy, or an EXTREME challenge (very good difficulty settings)
Deathmatch crazyness, or coop
Good atmosphere in many levels.

Basically its a horror with style with well designed levels and guns.

If you suddenly play it now, you would think that the graphics were utter crap, but once you play the game you learn that they suit it very well.
Blood is my favourite FPS to this day (lets see what HL2 can do).

Unfortunatly for it, the people that own the rights to this game are not releasing the source code, meaning its becoming harder and harder to get running in all its glory. The fools are killing one of the best and unknown games of all time.
Click to expand...


Thx for all the info.
 
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