Half-Life 2, The New Deus Ex

[Tiddalick]

While listening to the Deus Ex soundtrack I realised something...

To those of you that have played Deus Ex (I trust most of you) the game stood out from the others in two main areas.
1.Story
2.Atmosphere

The entire time through Deus Ex you can feel the weight of the situation as you try to discover what is ultimatly happening and resolve it in how you see fit (3 endings).

Now casting my mind to the sections of Half-Life 2 that we have seen, I feel that a strong feeling of atmosphere is there too (Well done Atmosphere is rare, and excellent if it is). The small section through the train station with the music and Dr Breen speaking really add to that oppressed feeling (as with the Tenements section), I find that effective atmosphere is very rare in games, and those that have it truly standout from the rest.

I list that only two games to date have had truly excellent atmosphere:
Blood
Deus Ex

If Half-Life 2 has atmosphere and story that is Omnipresent (with slight variation between oppression and need for action, eg train station to the docks/crane) and not Staggering, then it will be the best game ever released to date.



EXTRA
Note: I place great distinction between atmosphere that is too forced (staggering) to that which is done elegantly (Omnipresent).
Not to start flame war, but I will list some games where I think the distinction is different.
Example: Omnipresent games and levels.
Blood, eg e4m4 or e2m4 e2m5 e1m1 e1m2 to name a few (to those of you who know about blood)
Deus Ex, most of the game
etc

I realise that many of you would place AVP or say Doom3 in this catogory, but to me the atmosphere was too forced. How is it different? Well to give one example, you are always aware that at some stage an enemy WILL jump out at you.
An elegant atmosphere does not suggest this, instead draws you into the game without allowing you to infer what might happen.
To be fair to AVP and Doom3, to do a horror game I think it would be very, very hard to make anything with atmosphere where the jumping out wouldn't be part of it.

 

[Demon Wraith]

I can't play DE with sound anymore.

 

[Tiddalick]

I can't play DE with sound anymore.

Thats bad, sound really makes games like that.
Fiddle around?

I always try and get new hardware that is backwards compatiable as much as possible. So its no problem for me.

 

[Demon Wraith]

Thats bad, sound really makes games like that.
Fiddle around?

I always try and get new hardware that is backwards compatiable as much as possible. So its no problem for me.

My hardware used to play it just fine. But a few months ago I reinstalled it and... blech. Sound goes out at the opening menu and never comes back. I sent in to Ubisoft and they say my card won't support it. I think my card broke a bit a while back. Half-life games give me a bad static now (though the Source engine doesn't W00t), as well. Of course everything else runs perfect.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

I'd actually argue that Stalker is the new Deus Ex, since it has the whole inventory management and non-linearity thing.

Half-Life 2 is the new Half-Life.

 

[Tiddalick]

I'd actually argue that Stalker is the new Deus Ex, since it has the whole inventory management and non-linearity thing.

Half-Life 2 is the new Half-Life.

:farmer: :rolling: Yes I see what you mean for that.
But speaking strictly for atmosphere and story for the moment
:frog:

 

[iamaelephant]

Eck I hated Deus Ex. Boooooooring.

 

[Tiddalick]

Eck I hated Deus Ex. Boooooooring.

Well then I hope you hate HL2....
As it would then be like Deus Ex, and that would be very good :cheers:

 

[Eon Blue]

Lol, but Deus Ex was this underground badass hit.

 

[omni]

Well then I hope you hate HL2....
As it would then be like Deus Ex, and that would be very good :cheers:

I swear sometimes iamaelephant's comments border on flamebait, and often with a denigrating tone (well, as much as can be conferred through text).

But, yes, I agree Deus Ex was a pretty good game with an interesting story. Blood was atmospheric too, but I'd say that its quality comes from a kind of goofy camp than anything else.

 

[Hungry_Gamer]

I also agree. In my opinion Deus Ex is ONE OF the best games around. It may not have the greatest graphics in the world but it sure does make up for it with an uber cool character, story, as said above... the atmosphere and those little RPG elements that put in so much.

 

[Tiddalick]

I swear sometimes iamaelephant's comments border on flamebait, and often with a denigrating tone (well, as much as can be conferred through text).

But, yes, I agree Deus Ex was a pretty good game with an interesting story. Blood was atmospheric too, but I'd say that its quality comes from a kind of goofy camp than anything else.

Ahh such was the fun of blood. I would agree with the goofy bit..
The first time I played it was laughing uncontrolably from its old graphics and dynomite fun. Still it is quite atmospheric as well, in all a very good game.

Well with less then a month till we know whats happening with Half-Life 2 in terms of release, im sure I can test these ideas out soon.

 

[Dead-Inside]

Well then I hope you hate HL2....
As it would then be like Deus Ex, and that would be very good :cheers:

Rofl. I think you're confused. VALVe makes actionpacked games filled with every other goodness a gamer needs (Including atmoshere and storyline/storytelling).

And I have to say Deus Ex is really one shitty game. It's one of the worst "supposed to be good" games I've ever played. It's dull, dark (Doesn't suit my personal taste) and way to far fetched. It's also pretty retarded with enemies/locations/etc.

Just... HL2 is HL2 and not Deus Ex 2. Never will be. And I thank VALVe indefinently for that.

 

[DoctorGordon]

Well then I hope you hate HL2....
As it would then be like Deus Ex, and that would be very good :cheers:

Deus Ex was a terrible, terrible game. Infinitely dark and depressing, and enemies took a ton of shots before going down.

 

[TonicBH]

I do think the RPG-esque element of Deus Ex was nifty... just had sub-par AI. That and it was kind of a frustrating game. The only way you were you gonna get anywhere is godmoding it.

Ridiculous, really.

 

[iamaelephant]

How was my comment flamebait? Deus Ex really was boring.

 

[Tiddalick]

To each their own...

I really liked Deus Ex (the AI wasn't great, and the combat was chunky...).
Most of you would agree it had excellent atmosphere even if you didn't like the game im sure. Im not comparing gameplay here, just the elements of story and atmosphere.

 

[iamaelephant]

To be honest I don't get what you mean by "atmosphere." I always thought games like Far Cry, Doom 3 and Painkiller were loaded with it.

 

[ButtHoleMcGee]

I don't understand how the story and atmosphere in HL² fit in with Deus Ex's. Like Mecha said, Half-Life 2 is going to be the next Half-Life. Stalker would probably be the next Deus Ex (and hopefully better).

 

[iamaelephant]

In fact, I don't believe even you know what "atmosphere" is. Every game I've ever played has had "atmosphere."

at·mos·phere Pronunciation Key (tm-sfîr)
n.

The dominant tone or mood of a work of art.
An aesthetic quality or effect, especially a distinctive and pleasing one, associated with a particular place: a restaurant with an Old World atmosphere.

 

[Tiddalick]

Im not saying that any of the games had anything specifically in common.
They just all did/hopefully will have excellent atmosphere that suits them.

I don't think Painkiller had a 'good atmosphere' it was fun killing everything in huge packs of death but it didn't have atmosphere in what im trying to get at.
Hard to explain

 

[Tiddalick]

In fact, I don't believe even you know what "atmosphere" is. Every game I've ever played has had "atmosphere."

I know very well what it is.

Read what I am saying.
All games have atmosphere, but few do it to such a level of finese where it becomes a major element in the game.
Painkiller had very little atmosphere, its a run and gun. In the sense where you really absorb what feelings are presented in the game. Sure the Architecture was excellent, but it lacked atmosphere, can you see the difference?

 

[colin4444]

I know exactly what you mean. Deus Ex is one of the few games I have actually completed. The story was fun to see develop and the atmosphere was indeed great. The music fit the game very well, whether it be the ambience-type music of Hell's Kitchen or the catchy oriental music of Hong Kong. And I really enjoyed the different characters. I hope HL2 has some of the same elements that made Deus Ex such a great game. And for those of you who think it was a bad game, I honestly think you just didn't play it enough. I didn't like it at first, but once you get into it, you're hooked.

 

[iamaelephant]

I think the problem is alot of you guys are too uptight to really immerse yourselves in the games. I personally thought Far Cry was rich with atmostphere, and the game really absorbed me. The same thing happens with Unreal Tournament 2004.

 

[alan8325]

H-L2 will have plenty of atmosphere. Valve even incorporated a new technology to get players more immersed (facial expression).

I played Dues Ex once on my friend's computer but didn't have much interest in getting past the first couple of levels. I don't know what it was, but it didn't really grab my attention. I've actually never played UT 2004. Should I try it?

 

[Cybernoid]

The entire time through Deus Ex you can feel the weight of the situation as you try to discover what is ultimatly happening and resolve it in how you see fit (3 endings).

Doesn't that apply to a million games?

I feel that a strong feeling of atmosphere is there too (Well done Atmosphere is rare, and excellent if it is).

A strong atmosphere can also be found in a million games. How on earth does this connect DX to HL2?

I list that only two games to date have had truly excellent atmosphere:
Blood
Deus Ex

Well, you clearly haven't played a lot of games, then.

 

[Logic]

Some games certainly achieve a sense of atmosphere much better than others. That's one of the reasons I loved Half-Life so much - the sense of atmosphere. The Dig was another very atmospheric (though entirely different) game. I loved Deus Ex first time through, though I did find it slightly boring after that, I haven't really played more than a few levels since that first time through.

I don't think there are enough similarities between Deus Ex and HL2 to compare them properly (and certainly not enough to call HL2 the new Deus Ex) but I do agree that they are both extremely atmospheric and immersive games (well, hopefully, in HL2's case).

Edit: Now that I think about it, Thief 2 was also an incredibly atmospheric and immersive game, and I loved it for that reason.

 

[KagePrototype]

To each their own...

I really liked Deus Ex (the AI wasn't great, and the combat was chunky...).
Most of you would agree it had excellent atmosphere even if you didn't like the game im sure. Im not comparing gameplay here, just the elements of story and atmosphere.

Actually, I think the game could have used more emphisis on story and atmosphere. Sure, it had atmospheric music, but it was never really a very immersive game. And even though it was a story driven game, the monotone voice acting and delivery sometimes made it all very boring, and you just start missing things because you're not really paying attention (especially when you effectively didn't give two shits about any of the characters). I agree with iamanelephant when he says that games like Far Cry and Doom 3 have a lot more atmosphere and immersive quality than Deus Ex did.

And for the record, I loved Deus Ex. But it's a very different game to HL2, and comparing them on any terms (to me) seems a bit unfair.

 

[Logic]

Actually, I think the game could have used more emphisis on story and atmosphere. Sure, it had atmospheric music, but it was never really a very immersive game. And even though it was a story driven game, the monotone voice acting and delivery sometimes made it all very boring, and you just start missing things because you're not really paying attention (especially when you effectively didn't give two shits about any of the characters). I agree with iamanelephant when he says that games like Far Cry and Doom 3 have a lot more atmosphere and immersive quality than Deus Ex did.

And for the record, I loved Deus Ex. But it's a very different game to HL2, and comparing them on any terms (to me) seems a bit unfair.

Yes, thinking about it, it was a bit dry. I guess that's why it failed to draw me in the second time around. That first time, though, I did find it incredibly atmospheric and immersive, more than many games, but perhaps that was simply because of the level of detail that I had never seen in a 3D game before (such as exploring places you don't need to, reading people's computers, etc etc.. thousands of optional sub-quests, dialogue and interaction with npcs...)

 

[crabcakes66]

To be honest I don't get what you mean by "atmosphere." I always thought games like Far Cry, Doom 3 and Painkiller were loaded with it.

I think you listed 3 games that have a disapointing amount of atmosphere.

 

[iamaelephant]

Thats what I'm saying, crabcakes. I can find myself immersed in any game I play because I'm not constantly thinking "Oh this plot is silly. Look at the dum-dum AI. Oh man Gordon is such a better character." Personally I find Far Cry has loads of atmosphere and is a very intense game.

 

[oldagerocker]

I just like sitting on the beaches and paddling, if i walk off in one direction i get shot, if i walk in the other i get rocketed to death, so paddling is good... and maybe abit of swimming, look at them fish go!

DX was a really atmospheric game, in some parts it was very claustraphobic and others really open. Very much like FarCry and Half-life. To me, Doom3 had no atmosphere, everything looked the same and that doesnt help. I suppose 5.1 surround sound would help immerse you in a game like Doom3 where you just can't see anything anyway.

 

[Logic]

Thats what I'm saying, crabcakes. I can find myself immersed in any game I play because I'm not constantly thinking "Oh this plot is silly. Look at the dum-dum AI. Oh man Gordon is such a better character." Personally I find Far Cry has loads of atmosphere and is a very intense game.

Back when I was 8 years old, I could be totally immersed in an episode of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Over time, my tastes have matured and changed in various ways. You might find in a couple of years that Painkiller, or Far Cry, no longer immerse you. But personal taste aside, you can't deny that some games are more atmospheric than others. I'm sure you wouldn't argue that Pac-Man is just as atmospheric as Half-Life, right? And it's not because you're sitting there thinking "Oh this plot is silly. Look at the dum-dum AI. Oh man Gordon is such a better character."

You shouldn't assume that if someone isn't immersed in a game it's because that person is uptight. They may simply have different personal taste to you, be of a different demographic, or perhaps even want some intellectual stimulation from their gaming. The fact that I'm not immersed by the latest 'Barbie' CDrom does not make me uptight. If you can find games like that immersive, then by all means, join a Barbie forum, and eagerly await their next release.

 

[NeLi]

Nice way to flame his opinion, asshat. :monkee:

 

[skipper]

i fort it had bad acting

 

[Logic]

Nice way to flame his opinion, asshat. :monkee:

Not at all, I just strongly disagree with this:

I think the problem is alot of you guys are too uptight to really immerse yourselves in the games. I personally thought Far Cry was rich with atmostphere, and the game really absorbed me. The same thing happens with Unreal Tournament 2004.

Am I uptight for not finding UT2K4 as immersive as Deus Ex? No. I simply, for whatever reason, have different personal taste to iamaelephant. I'm not suggesting that he's wrong for being immersed by it. I am, however, also disagreeing with this:

Thats what I'm saying, crabcakes. I can find myself immersed in any game I play because I'm not constantly thinking "Oh this plot is silly. Look at the dum-dum AI. Oh man Gordon is such a better character." Personally I find Far Cry has loads of atmosphere and is a very intense game.

This is again insinuating that if we aren't immersed in a game, it's our faults, and it's because we're too uptight, and suggests that we should be able to be immersed by ANY game. I don't believe this is even true for iamaelephant, which is why I challenged him to be immersed by a Barbie game. I'm not flaming him at all, I'm just pointing out what I think he's wrong about. I'm allowed to disagree, right?

 

[valdiorn]

I hope someone remakes the entire Deus Ex 1 with Source That'd be soo friggin' cool (Ok, I know it's probably not legal.. but you can dream )

Deus Ex Machina IS the best game ever made...

..It made me cry in the ending

 

[kaellinn18]

Yeah, Deus Ex was an awesome game. However, I don't really see HL2 being the "next" Deus Ex. I just don't see the plot being as complex as it was in DE. Hopefully I'm wrong and will be pleasantly surprised. However, HL2 will be able to do with physics what Deus Ex always wanted to do. In that respect, I can see HL2 being a successor in spirit at least. I would also hope that HL2 has multiple solution puzzles. Deus Ex really exceeded expectations there.

 

[Tenaku]

A game with atmosphere? how about system shock 2.... deus ex always seemed like it was just an ss2 wannabe to me. good, but nowhere near the level of atmosphere and style that ss2 had...

 

[kaellinn18]

A game with atmosphere? how about system shock 2.... deus ex always seemed like it was just an ss2 wannabe to me. good, but nowhere near the level of atmosphere and style that ss2 had...

QFE

System Shock 2 scared the crap out of me constantly throughout the entire game. I would place that game as having the most atmosphere of anything I have played.