Halo 2 fans

[Warbie]

The best stories always have a simple premise.

Like you said, HL was great because it was just you, Gordon Freeman, your average scientist (well, as average as you can be working in a place like that ) trying to survive a day at work gone horribly wrong. This single goal is something we can all empathise with. imo this is what makes HL such a great experience, you can associate with the main character's plight so well that it sticks you in the game like none other i've played - HL makes you Gordon Freeman.

In HL2 you're the second coming. Masterchief with a crowbar, wondering around and killing things. There's no real drive other than to see what happens next, and lacks the element that made HL the classic it is.

HL2 feels like a generic fps to me - just one that is really very, very good.

As for Halo, I couldn't care less about the story - Halo's a game for shooting things. Period.

 

[Asknoone]

I wouldn't call Hl2 generic in any way, it had some of the best gameplay I've played in a long time. It managed to keep me entertained throughout each chapter by offering something new. I'm sure Valve could have had you go into the prison with your mere weapons, instead they gave me antlions to play about with.

The Citadel could have been a corridor shoot out, instead they implemented a nice twist on my weapons arsenal and allowed me to enjoy it a whole lot more. It does things most shooters don't generally.

And Warbie...I'm on the brink of buying a Gamecube...noes!! /Samon gets dragged away by Gamecube followers.

 

[Warbie]

I agree Samon - I don't mean generic as in the experience was average (it was excellent), but in that it lacked the originals strongest feature.

And why haven't you got a GC already!? For the price they're going for these days, and the excellent titles that are out/coming out, how can any gamer not own one!!??!

*starts RE4 again for the 5th time*

 

[CrazyHarij]

The best stories always have a simple premise.

Like you said, HL was great because it was just you, Gordon Freeman, your average scientist (well, as average as you can be working in a place like that ) trying to survive a day at work gone horribly wrong. This single goal is something we can all empathise with. imo this is what makes HL such a great experience, you can associate with the main character's plight so well that it sticks you in the game like none other i've played - HL makes you Gordon Freeman.

In HL2 you're the second coming. Masterchief with a crowbar, wondering around and killing things. There's no real drive other than to see what happens next, and lacks the element that made HL the classic it is.

HL2 feels like a generic fps to me - just one that is really very, very good.

As for Halo, I couldn't care less about the story - Halo's a game for shooting things. Period.

I wholeheartedly agree with most of what you said - HL was such a great and immersive game partly because of the believability. You were a completely normal guy with this type of job, and it all seemed like it could (and did) happen.

 

[Asknoone]

I agree Samon - I don't mean generic as in the experience was average (it was excellent), but in that it lacked the originals strongest feature.

And why haven't you got a GC already!? For the price they're going for these days, and the excellent titles that are out/coming out, how can any gamer not own one!!??!

*starts RE4 again for the 5th time*

Ah, I see

Yeah, I'll have to get one

 

[ríomhaire]

Halo 2 was the biggest game letdown ever, the single player is sh*t, bad level design, character design etc. Infact one of the very few things I liked was the vehicles. And I really liked Halo 1. multiplayer was decent though. But limited for me because no broadband.

Edit: One thing I really hated in Halo 2 but not Halo 1 is that I didn't have a clue where I was going. I constantly got lost trying find a door in certain levels and the layout sucked ass. Another thing was the darkness of some parts. It was obviously not as dark as Doom 3 but it was way to dark sometimes. Especially when the suit deemed it bright enough and turned off the flashlight and even worse when you were the Arbiter and didn't even have 1. Also here's another plot inconsitancy. In the Halo 1 manual it stated that the scorpion needed to be operated by a Spartan or someone with nerual implants. Yet when playing Halo 2 while playing as the Arbiter I was not only able to drive it but also able to get other elites to drive it. Or how about the magic guns on the wraith that not even the Arbiter is aloud to use. And the fact that Earth's forces decided to build their vvehicles out of inceribly weak material compaired to the old ones.

 

[A True Canadian]

Load up the outskirts level and point your view to the rooftops and tell me what you see. You might not be looking for them but you'll see power lines. You have got to be kidding me. Its the year 2552... Power lines?! Things like this, the inconsistencies and missing -important- cinematic information just do not happen when you spend three years developing a game. It simply does not happen. You do not "hype" a game up to be an awesome showdown on earth between the humans and covenant and then make the -single- earth level in the game complete garbage. My god is that level ever so linear and boring. From point A to point B. Its not the "god damn apocolypse" its a god damn conspiracy.

Kinda what I was thinking.

http://forums16.consumerreview.com/showpost.php?p=41630&postcount=1

 

[DeusExMachina]

Meh, I like Half Life 2's plot way better than Half Life.

 

[AmishSlayer]

Halo 3 needs to be entirely on Earth...I'm tired of Halo's. The best level of the game was the Earth level. Hell...I probably won't even get an xbox 360 so it doesn't really matter. I'll have to get bits and pieces of it at some friend's place.

 

[Asknoone]

Halo 3 needs to be entirely on Earth...I'm tired of Halo's. The best level of the game was the Earth level. Hell...I probably won't even get an xbox 360 so it doesn't really matter. I'll have to get bits and pieces of it at some friend's place.

The earth level was crap imo...The arbiters levels were the best.

 

[mortiz]

Half-Life 2 has a great story, you just have to look beneath the surface imo. Though I agree with you about the drive not really being there at times.

 

[Lucid]

Half-Life and Halo are both good games... Neither are better than the other.
Why the hell is it that these two games are automatically against eachother?

Is it because they both begin with H?

 

[Sparta]

No i think its because both of their sequels came out in the same year so they were automatically competiting against each other for the title of Best FPS of the Year if not Best Game of the Year.

I agree Samon - I don't mean generic as in the experience was average (it was excellent), but in that it lacked the originals strongest feature.

And why haven't you got a GC already!? For the price they're going for these days, and the excellent titles that are out/coming out, how can any gamer not own one!!??!

*starts RE4 again for the 5th time*

Its funny you mention that because i just started RE4 again for the 3rd time . Great game that. Good example of a game that does the same thing over and over and over again, yet it nevers fails to entertain.

 

[Sparta]

Double post, delete

 

[ninjasonfire]

Totally OT, but RE4 |2uL3z0rZ. H4rDc0r3.

Weighing in on the actual discussion, I was such an eager Halo 1/2 (including PC) fanboi, including reading all of the books, until about a week after playing H2 for the first time. I think my biggest complaint was really the feel of the combat. While the guns in the first Halo weren't very well balanced (*cough*pistol*insert phlegm noise here*), they felt like they had punch, like you were actually affecting the "world" around you with them, even though there wasn't much in the way of environmental physics. And in addition to the weak, disconnected feel of the combat in the second one, it felt to me like no matter what gun you had, it was essentially the same. There wasn't much of a qualitative difference between using the battle rifle and the covenant carbine, since there was always a counterpart that was essentially exactly the same. The symmetry of the weapons really bugged me.

Of course, maybe my reasons for my preference for HL2 are more psychological than tangible. When I did play through HL, it was one of the most enchanting experiences since I wasn't all that into FPS's at that point, and I had no idea it was the cream of the crop. It opened a "world of possibilities" to put it in superlatives. However, while I loved the first Halo for gameplay, and there were some truly awesome LAN parties at my school (boarding school with four xboxes in one of the dorms, always at least 8 people playing in between classes), but the u83r-1337 Halo player I know is kind of a douche while playing. So having to play with him (he could smell a copy of halo or an xbox from like a mile away) always made it less fun.

Another overly verbose post. Hrm.

 

[head_crabs]

i didnt like halo 2 very much. it gets so much credit but it is a normal game to me. its average. half life 2 is above average. it has a much better story and action.

 

[ríomhaire]

I Halo 2 weapons really anoyed me.The first time I got a shotgun I was like 'f*ck yeah' and ran up to an elite and shot him in the chest and quickly got a punch acros the head and died. I much prefered the ownage comboes (Plasma pistol+assault rifle to name one) than the super balanceing in Halo 2. Did anyone else feel that the needler was severly downgraded.

 

[Datrix]

Did anyone else feel that the needler was severly downgraded.

Yes, it was. Both from Halo, and the earlier version of Halo 2. :frown:

BTW, any of you have the new maps? I just got them, and I'm having a blast!

 

[Absinthe]

I remember when Bungie said the needler would no longer be a useless weapon. Yeah, sure...

 

[Kouler]

I remember when Bungie said the needler would no longer be a useless weapon. Yeah, sure...

You sir havent finished the game on Legendary.

 

[Warbie]

The needler was an absolute life saver in the original Halo on legendary - a superb weapon when used correctly.

 

[Absinthe]

Actually, I have finished it on legendary. And I think the needler is one of the most useless weapons in video game history, second only to the stun prod in Invisible War.

 

[Dalamari]

Halo 2 was the same game as the old one with somewhat better graphics and bigger multiplayer, oh, and a new character. Half-life 2 was a complete turn around from the first game, not one thing in the game stayed the same. Although I wouldn't put HL2 above BF2

 

[Warbie]

Actually, I have finished it on legendary. And I think the needler is one of the most useless weapons in video game history, second only to the stun prod in Invisible War.

Really? (You are talking the Xbox version? Halo was just easy fullstop on the pc)

I found it very useful for killing elites when you're out of ammo for the pistols (especially on the second level (one of the hardest on Legendary imo)) or when facing 2 or 3 of them at at the same time. (There's no time to take down the shield when faced by multiple elites - you need to be able to remove the sheild and kill one while escaping for cover. Other than the needler the only other weapon that can do this is the rocket launcher)

The most satisfying moment i've had in any single player fps involved the needler. 3 elites are charging me down - the last charge of the alien pistol removes the shield on one, a quick swap to the human pistol and double tap to the head finishes him off. A sticky nade right into the face of the second and, while strafing for cover, I stumble across a needler - which gets unloaded into the third just as I reach the cover of a big rock. Behind the rock is a cowering grunt, shaking with fear A melee to the back of the head finishes him off just as the elite who was full of needles explodes.

This all happened in a matter of seconds - which is what is so great about Halo. The demand for quick thinking, coupled with the opportunity to improvise in combat, is unmatched in other single player fps. In comparison the fighting in HL2 is a step back into the Doom days ..... combat unevolved if you like.

The people who complain about Halo being just an average, simple shooter remind me of those who try CS:S* a handful of times, just to say it's shite and moan about the no. of cheaters. (*or any shooter that requires an ounce of skill and practise)

 

[Kouler]

Actually, I have finished it on legendary. And I think the needler is one of the most useless weapons in video game history, second only to the stun prod in Invisible War.

I was talking about Halo 2 btw
Any Legendary completer would know that needlers are brute stompers when you first encounter them. Throughout that level (Gravemind, the one on the Covenant planet, before the flood come), needlers come in very handy against the brutes, whether it be that your Carbine is depleted of ammo or theres too many to take on at once, a 1-2 second burst of dual needlers followed by hiding behind cover is a guaranteed easy kill, providing that you didnt miss.

 

[Asknoone]

I always liked the needler, in both 1 and 2.

Halo and halo 2 are both ok in my opinion. Not one of them is brilliant, yet niether are crap. Great fun from time to time, actually, but they are still severely overrated

 

[Kyorisu]

This all happened in a matter of seconds - which is what is so great about Halo. The demand for quick thinking, coupled with the opportunity to improvise in combat, is unmatched in other single player fps. In comparison the fighting in HL2 is a step back into the Doom days ..... combat unevolved if you like.

*Cough*Serious Sam*Cough*

Agility Factor - check
Quick thinking - check
Improvise in combat - check

Halo 1 and 2 are very good games, alas I as a gamer couldn't sit through either one for more than 10 minutes at a time.

 

[A True Canadian]

I love the Serious Sam series. Hilarious combat.

 

[Myxomatosis]

Half-Life 2 runs circles around halo 2. Not only in the Graphics and interaction, but also in the storyline and originality. Halo 2's weapons are uninventive and unimpressive, not to mention that the covenant are supposed to be a lot smarter than us.. but have to throw their weapons away once out of battery power.... . That doesn't sound like a very intelligent race to me. It would cost extreme amounts of money to keep making guns, rather than to just make ammo for it. Then again when the elites have to throw all their plasma rifles away, right after their shitty batteries die, then they can hide behind the mound.

The most interesting weapon throughout all of halo 2 is the human sniper rifle because it has the full motion video screen on it. Other than that all the other weapons are recycled and uninspired. I especially have problems with the fact that Bungie had the testicular force to brand that shitty popgun with the name "Magnum"... I'm glad they made that gun disappear for most the game, because you would get owned by covvies hard if they stuck you with it. I also find it stupid that Bungie plays a lot on the fact that they have dual wielding capabilities, like games didn't before then.. Right?(Perfect Dark '99) I understand you can couple different types of guns.. but the dual system is still lame. And please tell me what the deal is with the guns not having a ****ing secondary fire...

Half-Life 2 on the other hand has quite a few guns that you would be hard pressed to find in another game. For one there is Zero point Energy gun which you could almost use through most of the game (lets not forget the Blue one you acquire that allows you to pick up people and kill others with the already dead ones. The Pulse Rifle which has one of the coolest secondary fires I've seen. The rebar shooting crossbow that allows you to pin people to walls (do that in H2). Also don't forget the ant lion pheromones that lets you control the ant lions to do what you want, when you want, for a few levels (not quite as cool as the psychosis gun in Perfect Dark though).

Another problem I have with h2 are the enemies... while a few stand out as interesting (big dudes), the rest of them are ****ing retarded. For instance, that "boss" thing referred to as the scarab... give me a break. All you do is jump on that thing, waste a dozen of covvies and bam. Wtf kind of boss is that? Maybe if you had to dodge its fire it would be a different story, but you never have to fear from it(unless you try to save that tank like I have). The stupid thing with the shield that looks like a chicken on crack... no. Let’s not forget the methane sucking grunts.. come on now. Why would the covenant deploy such a bunch of cowardly midgets? They would have been better off just sending in sanghelli and the drones. They are harder to kill than grunts, and they have a backbone.

Half-Life 2's enemies are by far cooler to interact with/kill. Whether it be the manhacks (you can pick these up and carry them around so you can kill enemies with it), roller mines (ditto), the big ant lion guards (who could punish a hunter), the synths (one of the most notable are the Striders, which are one of the coolest enemies between both games), or even the combine. Not to mention one of the weirdest enemies from the game, the stalker (a captured citizen which had his/her organs removed and replaced with saline for easy slave driving, and had part of it's limbs cut off.

The AI runs laps around halo 2's, using cover effectively, and flushing you out with nades. The brightest I've seen a covvie be is when he tried to ram me with a ghost and keep going, hit the wall, and flip over. Halo 2's rag doll physics are a ****ing joke (master chief just lies down like a board with one arm out... wow), and half-life 2 is way better on combining scripted sequences with AI interactivity. (i.e. you're playing a level and a strider blows a hole in the wall(scripted part), but then chooses a random citizen to blow to hell, could even be you).

And that combat evolved crap may have applied to the first, and best game, but it cannot be the slogan for halo 2... The proper alt title needs to be "run through and shoot the hell out of stuff".

It's amazing that I write all this while listening to the Halo 2 soundtrack (possible the only thing worth buying that is related to the halo franchise, except for halo 1). Bungie better straighten there shit up for the 3rd game or else even some of the mega fan boys might just dump their game. As for me, I don't waste space in my trash can on halo 2. I micro waved the ****er and tossed it out of an 85 mph moving car to be crushed into pieces.

Then again, even though I do like halo, I am a HL2 fanboy at heart.. so I may be wrong.

 

[Warbie]

*Cough*Serious Sam*Cough*

Agility Factor - check
Quick thinking - check
Improvise in combat - check

You cannot be be serious! Seriously.

I enjoyed Serious Sam a great deal - but it's as mindless as they come (and that's saying something) it doesn't even begin to compare to Halo when it comes to demanding combat.

Serious Sam is point and click - and that's it. There's nothing to learn, no need to practise, certainly no room for improvisation, and absolutely no thinking required. Other than that it's just like Halo

You obviusly never tried Halo (Xbox) on Legendary.

 

[Pesmerga]

Valve figured that by working on the engine will get them more money than working harder on the storyline or online play.

Bungie did the complete opposite. They worked harder on the storyline and online play than they did for the engine (mostly online play though).

Hah, hahaha, hahahahahahaha, ahahhahahahaha, ahahhahahHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Sparta]

Although I wouldn't put HL2 above BF2

But they are totally different. BF2 is just an incremental update of Battlefield (and its true, regardless of what anyone says, its true).

And the only reason the Halo series is so hard on Legendary is because the Elites have shields that regenerate and you are killed in two-three shots.

 

[Warbie]

Doesn't matter why it's hard - the result is good, and that's what's important.

So many games are difficult by being cheap, relying on quick saves and the benfit of hindsight.

 

[Sparta]

But if thats why its hard then many other games could easily implement those features and be just as hard, challenging and rewarding.

If Ninja Gaiden had enemies with regenerating shields it would be impossible.

And in the meantime Gamespot gave the Halo 2 Multiplayer Pack 8.7

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/halo2expansionpack/index.html

Thats funny, i didn't know they reviewed multiplayer packs. Oh well

 

[Warbie]

But if thats why its hard then many other games could easily implement those features and be just as hard, challenging and rewarding

Of course they wouldn't. There's a difference between challenging and rewarding and unfair and annoying (which would be the case if the enemy had shields in Ninja Gaiden)

In Halo you're given the tools needed survive on any difficulty. Its stength is that it can be so challenging whilst not being unfair (If you die it's you're own fault, not the games)

There's a whole host of balancing issues that are affected by changing enemy health/accuracy/armour etc etc If the difficulty of HL2 was increased to a comparable level i'm pretty certain we'd find that its arsenal isn't up to the job (it being very spammy and quite weak - taking too long to take down an enemy and resulting in 'unfair' death), and would need tweaking. This is just one area, i'm sure there'd be many others.

By the time the balance was sorted out the end result would probably be quite a different experience. (it would be the same if Halo was made much harder than Legendary - the game mechanics just wouldn't allow it)

//edit

To make HL2 harder and more rewarding a combat experience it would need a different approach imo - probably better ai.

 

[Sparta]

(it being very spammy and quite weak - taking too long to take down an enemy and resulting in 'unfair' death)

I find that incredibly hypocritical considering you're comparing HL2 to Halo 1/2 on Legendary, where it takes a good 5 or so minutes to kill a single Elite on Legendary when you first start out. So that is complete bullsh*t.

As for the A.I in HL2, i think it does its job fine, i just don't think they do enough damage to make it challenging. A single bullet from the smg in HL2 does 1-3 damage, thats it. it would take a good clip or two to take down Gordon with that.

 

[Warbie]

It's not bullshit

The point is that on Legendary you have the tools to take out an elite very quickly (which is what is needed) If it takes someone 5 minutes to kill an elite the chances are they won't survive that long in the first place.

I agree that the enemy in HL2 should pack more of a punch. The guns are still spammy though

 

[Sparta]

No its bullshit.

The reason being, is because the games take far longer to complete on Legendary then they do on Normal difficulty. I have a friend who completed Halo 2 in 4 hours the day he got it, and it took him a week of playing to finish it on Legendary. Alot of that is due to trial and error (and the fact that you can't play a game for 100+ hours straight without needing mental help) and alot of that is also due to how long it takes to battle the enemies in the game.

A grunt can be taken down in a matter seconds with a few well-placed shots. On any difficulty. An Elite on Herioc or Legendary difficulty (on Halo 2) requires alot more effort plus you always have to retreat because you're shield constantly takes a pounding. Sure i admit i'm not a hardcore Halo player like you are, but not that many people are to begin with. The average player going through Legendary is gonna struggle, and like i said, its because of the shields and the rate of damage you and the enemy deal.

If you take away the shield from the Halo series, A large part of the tactical side of it is pretty much gone.

 

[Warbie]

True, shields play a large part in Halo. Along with only being able to carry two weapons they make for a very welcome and more complex shooter. This isn't a bad thing

I don't see what how long the game takes to finish on Legendary has to do with the weapons being spammy though. Sure, it takes a while at first - learning the levels, getting familair with the weapons/enemy etc. But as you get better you can run through the levels without dying and the game opens up.

The weapons aren't 'spammy', otherwise it wouldn't be possible to take out multiple elites quickly.

(this is more the case with the orignal Halo though. The sequal is more linear and less well balanced imo, herding you through large sections of the game and giving you few options in how to tackle certain situations. It's also verging on frustratingly unfair at times .... being faced by 3 elites is one thing, finding yourself toe to toe with 10 of them is another. A step back in single player)

 

[Kouler]

For anyone who wants to get into the Halo games on Legendary, I have some advice as to how I did it. Start with Halo 1, and i know this is gonna sound painful but, play The Library on Legendary. By the time you have finished that, you should have the confidence and slight understanding of to act in different situations, and also the fact that that level is the easiest on Legendary (especially as soon as you get the shotgun, its a breeze). So just play it in order from the first level after youve finished the Library. As a side note: dont be surprised if youre finding it hard to finish Truth and Reconciliation, it is the hardest legendary level IMO. Once you finish Halo 1 on legendary, you should do fine with Halo 2.