Halo 3 in Swedish Mag!

What?

You don't have to account for different systems. You design the gameplay so that it works the same way on every system. It might look different, it might not run as smoothly, but the player's gameplay experience has to be the same. If you "dumb down" the AI for slower computers, then they'll have a different gameplay experience to those people with faster computers.

And if you don't think that the designing process isn't complicated, then...well, I have no words.
 
Pi Mu Rho said:
And if you don't think that the designing process isn't complicated, then...well, I have no words.
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Im not saying that your everday joe can make a game, but his neighbor probably could, and you got me there I realized what I just typed and see that it would make a different game for different systems, but that doesnt mean they cant alter code to allow for optimization in small scale battles, or dodging for that matter.
 
Then you are both naive and misinformed.
 
but that doesnt mean they cant alter code to allow for optimization in small scale battles, or dodging for that matter.
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Are you still talking about Valve here?
Not-Doding was to make the gamer funner by making guys easier to hit. Simply to put, Fun != Challenging.

We also have no idea why there AI isn't that great in small scale battles, we simply don't. They could have taken the time to improve the AI for small scale battles and added it in a difficulty setting. This would take more time for the game to ship, more money, possibly redesigning levels, and Valve had been working on this game for 6 years and they wanted to get it out already so they decided not to. Thats a possibility.

I am actually Coder(Not a Source Coder though), I know a decent amount of C++(I'm good at memory management), and mostly rely on C# for quickly creating GUI's(I'm also much more experienced in C#).


But as Samon and PI said, they want the game functioning the same on every system. I mean(minus games being choppy) do you upgrade your computer only to have the games play 1000x times better. The gameplay just gets 1000x better because of your comp upgrade? Hell the only thing I ever see is graphic improvements. Therefor I believe PI summed the thought on this for just about all Game Designers up.
 
Sparta said:
I actually stopped listing games because i couldn't be bothered arguing anymore. Not because i couldn't think of anymore.
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Right, because you've seen soo much of Halo3 and you know how good the graphics are so I'm sure you could've compiled such an amazing list, I mean, you had FEAR, that's compelling.

Samon said:
And you know it isn't being used, yes? Even then, it's something to be used down the line. Just because it presently isn't being used in HL2/EP1 does not mean it shouldn't be there. Idiot logic really, don't you think?
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People here said it wasn't being used and you and others didn't refute that and some of the Halo hating morons tried to make it out as a good point.

Until it is being used it is useless and is not a 'Ha, HL2 is so better than x.'

Idiot logic ? Nope.

Call me when the [apparent] amazing AI is being used, thanks.
 
Call me when the [apparent] amazing AI is being used, thanks.
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That AI code is in HL2, in fact it is being used. However that AI simply sucks at small battles. So yes you see that AI in HL2 every single time you play. Those particle AI Routines are simply better with more space and large battles that HL2 does not offer.
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Whats your number?
 
No way I'm giving it out to you freaks, you'll call me every day and start talking like G-Man. D:

Also, that's not really any different and someone tried to swing it that way before.

It's still going unused and/or is not being used well.
 
I find it a bit ridiculous that it takes two sequels for Combine soldiers to learn how to throw back the grenades you dropped at their feet.
 
Guys, do you realize what a stupid discussion this is? I've played Halo and Half-Life 2 extensively and from my experiences, the ai in Halo is better. This is not about how good Valve or Bungie can code ai, but which game has better ai. It's Valve's fault that they didn't code the Combine better for close quarters, and they (supposedly) dumbed the ai down on purpose, for whatever reason. Now can we get back to bashing Halo 3, like we were doing before people started talking about Valve and how Gmod shows how smart their coding is?
 
No way I'm giving it out to you freaks, you'll call me every day and start talking like G-Man. D:
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I wouldn't start talking like the G-Man!!! I'd pretend to be Paris Hilton.

lso, that's not really any different and someone tried to swing it that way before.

It's still going unused and/or is not being used well.
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But your wrong. The AI is both Great and Bad. It's has two aspects and saying it's Bad refers to everything which simply is wrong. Now as ChiChi put it, "It's Valve's fault that they didn't code the Combine better for close quarters, and they (supposedly) dumbed the ai down on purpose, for whatever reason. ". Now I also agree to move on.

Anyway Halo's a decent game. Although I'd rate HL2 over it.... it's still a great game. but..just for kicks..
OMGZ HALO SUX, DUM STORY!!! HL2 FTW!!!
 
destrukt said:
Call me when the [apparent] amazing AI is being used, thanks.
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Ring ring.

DeusExMachina said:
I find it a bit ridiculous that it takes two sequels for Combine soldiers to learn how to throw back the grenades you dropped at their feet.
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I find it quite ridiculous that you have no idea how difficult it would be to animate/code that. Please list several games that feature enemies picking up and throwing the grenade back at you.
 
destrukt said:
Right, because you've seen soo much of Halo3 and you know how good the graphics are so I'm sure you could've compiled such an amazing list, I mean, you had FEAR, that's compelling.
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Hey, you agreed with me on Gears of War, Crysis and Alan Wake, and based on their early previews alone blow Halo 3 out of the water. So don't go using that shitty argument when you were agreeing with me.
 
I'd be suprised if Halo 3 looked anything less than stunning - there's an awful lot of money being pumped into this game.
 
Maybe, maybe not. From those scans it looks like the same engine, which is a mixed blessing. That engine was never really anything special. It did its job but when Halo 2 came out, it was noticable how goddamn ugly it could be.

But if the full game looks as consistently good as the trailer, then yeah, it'll look awesome.
 
Halo is the closest the 360 has to a flagship title. There's as much chance of it not looking lovely as Nintendo releasing a shoddy Zelda :)
 
Samon said:
Ring ring.



I find it quite ridiculous that you have no idea how difficult it would be to animate/code that. Please list several games that feature enemies picking up and throwing the grenade back at you.
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all MoH games
 
I think it looks pretty ****ing great. what's with all the hating.. oh right, your favourite games aren't getting as much attention..
 
Samon said:
I find it quite ridiculous that you have no idea how difficult it would be to animate/code that. Please list several games that feature enemies picking up and throwing the grenade back at you.
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You want me to list the countless games that have done it? Games even from the PSX days?
 
DeusExMachina said:
You want me to list the countless games that have done it? Games even from the PSX days?
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Did that feature make the games more fun?

There's two reasons why HL2 doesn't have enemies always throwing your grenades back. One, the old AI routines argument; since HL2 is made to run on systems that are 1.2GHz, Valve needs to hand-pick the capabilities that enemies have at their disposal, and has to make sure that that set of routines won't overload a low-end processor. Some processes take precedence over others, and having enemies throw your grenades back at you is less important than squad tactics. And two, the game would be less fun. If the Combine were to throw a great percentage of your grenades back at you, you would be dying a hell of a lot more often (as the grenades thrown at you are effectively pre-cooked), and be having to replay sections of the game ad nauseum, which is never fun.
 
Stigmata said:
Did that feature make the games more fun?

There's two reasons why HL2 doesn't have enemies always throwing your grenades back. One, the old AI routines argument; since HL2 is made to run on systems that are 1.2GHz, Valve needs to hand-pick the capabilities that enemies have at their disposal, and has to make sure that that set of routines won't overload a low-end processor. Some processes take precedence over others, and having enemies throw your grenades back at you is less important than squad tactics. And two, the game would be less fun. If the Combine were to throw a great percentage of your grenades back at you, you would be dying a hell of a lot more often (as the grenades thrown at you are effectively pre-cooked), and be having to replay sections of the game ad nauseum, which is never fun.
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Then why are they adding it to Episode 2 if it isnt fun?
 
guchi said:
Then why are they adding it to Episode 2 if it isnt fun?
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Well no theres a difference. See in other games, they'd throw it at you it'd land on at your feet and you'd blow up, now with the gravity gun it'll blow up in your face :D
 
Then why are they adding it to Episode 2 if it isnt fun?
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Don't ask us, ask Valve.
However in my opinion, it can be added because HL2:EP2 requires more than HL2, or maybe...it's fun in Ep2 where in HL2 it wouldn't have been...

IDK, i don't care, if Valve adds it then thats great. If they don't ok fine then they decided it was less fun. Whatever happens I'm sure i'll get a great game.
 
Stigmata said:
Did that feature make the games more fun?

There's two reasons why HL2 doesn't have enemies always throwing your grenades back. One, the old AI routines argument; since HL2 is made to run on systems that are 1.2GHz, Valve needs to hand-pick the capabilities that enemies have at their disposal, and has to make sure that that set of routines won't overload a low-end processor. Some processes take precedence over others, and having enemies throw your grenades back at you is less important than squad tactics. And two, the game would be less fun. If the Combine were to throw a great percentage of your grenades back at you, you would be dying a hell of a lot more often (as the grenades thrown at you are effectively pre-cooked), and be having to replay sections of the game ad nauseum, which is never fun.
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Precisely.
The idea of winging over the fact that the feature isn't in HL2/EP1 is completely and absolutely hilarious.
 
It's not about that one feature. I just chose that one as one of the "hmm, wouldn't that make a lot of sense?" features that wasn't in before.
 
With EP2 having larger outdoor areas, I can see where the feature could come into play, especially when it comes down to specifications and keeping everything running smooth.

Still, we'll keep it Halo 3.
 
According to Gamespot, it the article says that there will again be no bots. Now thats just plain lazy. Seriously, games that really suck have had decent bots, and the supposedly greatest of all console FPSes Halo, can't bother with it. But why not play online you say, why not bring some friends over? Well, not everyone has online for one thing. In fact, I think less people have online play than do. Not to mention that people who play online are generally complete assholes, and can't be turned on to easy mode for a noob like me. So what the hell, am I supposed to turn everyday I want play Halo into "OMG LAN PARTY!" day? If the single player blows again, then this game will get practically no play time out of me. It seems like Bungie doesn't care about mainstream gamers at all, only its hardcore fans. Halo 3 is not looking worth $60 right now. Rant over.
 
JoeCLawrence said:
According to Gamespot, it the article says that there will again be no bots. Now thats just plain lazy. Seriously, games that really suck have had decent bots, and the supposedly greatest of all console FPSes Halo, can't bother with it. But why not play online you say, why not bring some friends over? Well, not everyone has online for one thing. In fact, I think less people have online play than do. Not to mention that people who play online are generally complete assholes, and can't be turned on to easy mode for a noob like me. So what the hell, am I supposed to turn everyday I want play Halo into "OMG LAN PARTY!" day? If the single player blows again, then this game will get practically no play time out of me. It seems like Bungie doesn't care about mainstream gamers at all, only its hardcore fans. Halo 3 is not looking worth $60 right now. Rant over.
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They've already explained why they're not making multiplayer bots in Halo 3: They can't simply "port" campaign AI into multiplayer, because the encounters and combat are fundamentally different between the two. Also, they have better things to spend time on - namely, campaign AI, rendering engine, netcode, new features, general game balance/playtesting...

Would the general public want a game with bots, or a game that, due to its lack of bots, has higher-quality netcode, balance, and graphics? It really does suck when developers can't fulfill the desires of people like you (edit: honestly, no sarcasm implied), but a line has to be drawn somewhere.
 
I seriously hope they put the Pelicans back into the game. Pelicans + team mates sitting inside and on gun + big levels + CTF/Assault = YES!
 
Stigmata said:
They've already explained why they're not making multiplayer bots in Halo 3: They can't simply "port" campaign AI into multiplayer, because the encounters and combat are fundamentally different between the two. Also, they have better things to spend time on - namely, campaign AI, rendering engine, netcode, new features, general game balance/playtesting...

Would the general public want a game with bots, or a game that, due to its lack of bots, has higher-quality netcode, balance, and graphics? It really does suck when developers can't fulfill the desires of people like you (edit: honestly, no sarcasm implied), but a line has to be drawn somewhere.
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Well, the thing is, Halo 2's sp was so underwhelming that I really felt screwed over by the lack of bots, and I can't help but feel 3 will do the same. I'm hoping to god they put alot more effort into the campaign than they did in 2. I mean, if it has a kickass campaign, I probably won't care at all. It still feels like they're catering to much to the hardcore halo fans, and I think Halo 3 sales may actually suffer as a result of it. I know alot of people who thought Halo 2 was only good as a party/online game (including me)and that doesn't usually drive sales (Little known fact: most gamers barely even touch multiplayer). Here's to hoping for a great SP campaign.
 
I have little hope for Halo 3. I really enjoyed Halo, the combat and vehicles where fun and some of the levels where brilliant (Assault the Control Room is my favourite) though some where the Libra-I mean crap. The enemies always seemed strong but not too tough. The weapons felt powerful and all the enemies where fun to fight.

Halo 2 was horrible, the level design was horrendous, whose idea was it to put you into an almost completely dark room as the Arbiter (no flashlight)? All the new enemies where more annoying than fun. Brutes are just enemies with big guns and lots of health, there is no way to take them out quickly like the plasma-pistol assault rifle combo you could use against elites. Snipers are infuriating and drones where annoying. The weapons felt weak, in Halo 1 you could always take out an elite with 2 shotgun blasts from point blank (the first gets rid of the shield), the first time I tried this in Halo 2 I got hit over the head and instantly died. The battle rifle isn't as good as the pistol was and my previously favourite weapon, the needler, seemed rubbish compared to its former glory. The only things that where improved where the basic mechanics, i.e., hijacking and dual-wielding, but that does little in such bad levels. I have doubts Halo 3 will be any better.
 
Also, bring back the pistol! (although it'd still be a bit useless if they leave in dual-wielding... which I hope they don't)
 
Halo 2 was good for MP. Plain and simple. That's really all me and my friends ever used it for.
 
Agreed. Singleplayer is... semi-epic... but then they got lazy half-way through. It left me going "Hey, wasn't this about the Covenant attacking Earth...?"
 
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