Hamas wins Palestinian election

[The Monkey]

I'm suprised there isn't a thread about this already.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4650788.stm

This is looking bad...

 

[jimbo118]

its what the palestinian people democratically voted for at the end of the day.

 

[Beerdude26]

:O
I'm quite interested how this all will turn now.

 

[DeusExMachina]

I was hoping the Independents would win...but I knew that would never happen.

 

[$kelet0r]

well this was fairly obviously going to happen as its happened in every other country with a similar history - hell its happened twice in this country
1st with the party who refused to accept the creation of the irish nation as it was in 1922 starting a civil war were voted into government 10 years later to become the dominant party since
2nd with the IRA becoming more political, Sinn Fein becomes the 2nd largest and 4th largest party in North and the republic of Ireland respectively

 

[Adabiviak]

I think it's bad news, not because they won an election in a fair and democratic election (by assumption), but because Hamas is recognized as a terrorist group by the EU and the US. They'll have to make some dogmatic changes before we recognize them as a legitimate entity according to the rhetoric of recent news reports I've read. Their elections are about as good as ours: when your only two choices suck, you take the lesser of two evils. I know we have more than two choices here, but I don't think much of the rest of the country does. I heard interviews with a handful of Palestenians that said they didn't necessarily like Hamas, but voted for them just to shake up the existing government who hadn't done the best job.

 

[JNightshade]

Hmm. Biiiig news. I'm looking forward to seeing how this plays out- from my safe vantage point across the world, of course

 

[Adabiviak]

Hmm. Biiiig news. I'm looking forward to seeing how this plays out- from my safe vantage point across the world, of course

QFT!!!

 

[Ome_Vince]

Now this is f$%^ked up.
Suddenly that Command and Conquer Generals sounds pops up :
"Ak47's for everyone!!!"

 

[Icarusintel]

I think this is actually what needed to happen. Only with the most militant party in government can the road to peace really commence. If they really strive for peace, it can be done, especially since they'll be the ones negotiating it. I personally think this CAN be a step forward, so long as Hamas decides to take it. If not, well, Israel will not tolerate it, and we all know what happens then.

 

[MilkMan12]

Hey I think it's just giving the Palistinians bad PR. They finally get there own land...Israel stepped away and said...ok its yours HANDLE IT! What have they been doing? Its pretty much chaos...and soon the world including the UN will realize that they cannot run their own country and establish a stable government...be it communist dictorial or democratic.

 

[jerkasaur]

I think it's bad news, not because they won an election in a fair and democratic election (by assumption), but because Hamas is recognized as a terrorist group by the EU and the US.

excuse me, but **** them when it comes to other countries and their opinion, it's non of their bussiness, and they better keep out of it, noone wants another iraq-like war...

Hey I think it's just giving the Palistinians bad PR. They finally get there own land...Israel stepped away and said...ok its yours HANDLE IT! What have they been doing? Its pretty much chaos...and soon the world including the UN will realize that they cannot run their own country and establish a stable government...be it communist dictorial or democratic.

imagine US or England being occupied, then not giving their own lands back just because we think they can't handel it, wtf? Israelies have no right in Palestin, if Israelies have had so much pain in the ww2, they why not germany giving them a place in their country to stay? huh? why should Palestinian be killed everyday for what they haven't done.

Now this is f$%^ked up.

no it's not.

its what the palestinian people democratically voted for at the end of the day.

ah and you didn't guess? this is what they've wanted for a long time now, freedom.
i just get ****ing angry when i see that all people think, sharon and his country men could do better or hamas is a terrorist group.
kthnxbai.

 

[Lemonking]

oh yeah lets vote for terrorists now...great.

 

[jerkasaur]

well it's better than voting for traitors...

 

[Lemonking]

this election says it all about that corner of the world.
even thoe Im not a fan of Israel I hope they torch their "enemys"
I will have fun watching it on FOX /jk

 

[jerkasaur]

heh, FOX... i lol everytime i hear the name with those stupid programmes...

 

[MilkMan12]

Ok jerkasaur you obviously do not have any human emotion to post in this topic so please just dont anymore k?

I understand people who sympathize with palastinians, I am absolutely appauled and offended by people who sympathize with HAMAS and then go as far to say they aren't terrorists. Get the **** out, if blowing up 4 year old children in a pizzaria is not terrorism I really don't know what is. So just stop ok, your ignorance really makes me angry and I seriously start to lose faith in humanity when I read shit like that. Its worse than the inane babble that comes from ignorant white supremacists but when someone says what you said and appears to have somewhat of an intellectual mind (meaning your not hopeless like those ****ing neo-nazi white supremacists) it makes me sad because your smarter than that. Yet you choose not to show it.

 

[jerkasaur]

if blowing up 4 year old children in a pizzaria is not terrorism I really don't know what is.

droping weakened uranum bombs on iraq was not called terrorism, it was called "mission". Isreal having more than 300 nuke bombs is not considered terrifing, iran's nuke activities are. what the **** are you talking about? you see a 4 year old kid killed, you know how many palastinian teenagers are murdered everyday? no, you don't. cause they don't tell you. there hasn't been a single day now that a teenager haven't died with those mother****ing Isrealis attacking them. you know they're aged 10-16?. palastinians throw stones, Isrealis shoot the **** out of their brains. if an Isreali kills a little girl coming near him, you'd say it's "OK", cause she might have been a suicide bomber, what the **** does that mean? have you ever seen that palastinian kid killed in front of his father's eye? while he was pleaing them to stop shooting? no, you haven't. cause all you hear and see is what they want you to. palastinians die everyday, so do Isrealis, but palastinians are fighting for their country, while Isrealis are occuping it. have you ever heard the death count? on average, everyday more than 10 palastinians die, while every 3 days, an Isreali soldier dies, and everyday only one or two soldiers get injured. you don't know that, cause they have only told you that HAMAS is a terrorist group, who the **** is terrorist man? people who fight for their country? or those who are occupying it?
and for ****'s sake don't talk about humanity with me, what the **** happened to hiroshima and nakazaki?
so you better get the **** out, cause you don't know anything, or you're not trying to mention any if you do.
****!

 

[MilkMan12]

Dont ****ing tell me I dont know anything. I view all angles of this shit unlike you.

Have you seen a ****ing 16 year old teen get killed infront of his fathers eyes or HAVE YOU SEEN A 16 YEAR OLD TEEN GET KILLED BEING A SHIELD FOR HIS FATHER TAKING POT SHOTS AT ISRAELI SOLDIERS! Im seriously like amazed with your logic here. You think Israelis are animals Jesus ****ing christ. Have you ever visited the Israeli army and realize that they are one of the most well trained and respected armies in the world. What the **** are you saying?!?!!!!?!?!

How can you justify AT ****ING ALL the brutal INTENTIONAL murdering of CIVILIAN CHILDREN and TEENS in Israel. Have you seen the spy satalites that actually found thousands and thousands of Palistinians faking their deaths or the deaths of others to exagerate what has been done to them? Do you know about the thousands of times the Israeli army DOES NOT fire unless they are ABSOLUTELY sure of their target? Godamnit dude look at this through an unbiased lense here.

The terrorists sole purpose is to rid the world of Jews, they aren't doing this in retalliation or because they dont have a "home". Its all bullshit man, most of what you see. You can see videos of Palistinians carrying bodies of children supposedly being killed by Israeli troops, then when the cameras are off (so they thought) the children get up and go on with their daily lives.

Did you know that most of the Palistinian children are raised with the sole goal of killing Jews? Have you seen the videos where they teach Palistinian children math in terms of how many Jews you kill?!

I guarantee you 90% of all those times teens or kids that have died by Israeli hands were intentional and forced because they were used as human shields by their parents.

If my brother and I were at war with an enemy as heartless as the terrorists and some evil bastard starts shooting at my brother and hits him, but he is making his kid stand infront of him throwing just stones you better damn well believe I will take the guy out...if the kid dies I am sorry but I would have no other option.

You know why the Israeli airforce is the best in the world? Its because they are accurate to the point where if they needed to kill this one guy in a huge building, they would sent a chopper to blow up his room and his room alone. with no collateral damage?

Cmon get your head strait man.

 

[gick]

Well, clearly the both of you have got a seriously warped sense of morality. I honestly dont understand how you could side with the Israelis or the Palestinians - they are both as violent and xenophobic as each other.

Reality check: Slaughtering women, children and innocent bystanders is wrong no matter who does it

 

[gick]

And back on topic:

Hamas winning the elections is a BIG step backwards. At least Fatah were willing to co-exist with Israel in accordance with the 'road map' for peace. Hamas simply do not recognize Israel as having a right to exist, and will not negotiate with them. Israel (rightly) recognize Hamas as a terrorist organization, and so will not negotiate with them either.

Stalemate

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

Well, clearly the both of you have got a seriously warped sense of morality. I honestly dont understand how you could side with the Israelis or the Palestinians - they are both as violent and xenophobic as each other.

Reality check: Slaughtering women, children and innocent bystanders is wrong no matter who does it

Good post.


Both of you need to calm down. While its enlightening to hear what you have to say.. Please try and be objective, I'd hate to miss what you have to say because the thread gets closed....

 

[clarky003]

Well from an economic stand point its probably worse. If Hamas stop using the petro dollar and go for the euro as probably will happen the US government will be extra peeved and western interest's may feel the need to do something about it.

 

[Beerdude26]

I vote we send all the narcotic products in the world to the governments of those two countries.
Soon after, it will be called Peace-And-Love Land and a national orgy will occur every two weeks.

 

[MeTurk]

What I don't get is everybodys always telling the terrorists to give up the violence and start talking, use the political road. Now they say they've no right to be in politics and won't talk to them. As far as I'm conserned this is where you want them. Fair enough this was a complete surprise to all including hamas but good things could come out of this, they probably won't but I wouldn't put all the blame on hamas for that it takes two to tango.

Maybe when hamas have to deal with the day to day problems of running a contry and working FOR the people they'll begin to settle down and see that if they really care about their people and their future peace and discussion is the only way forward.

The original IRA back in at the turn of the last century could be said to be the only terrorist orginisation that made terrorisim work but that's only because they stoped using violence once they got their chance to stand up and be heard by the Brits.

Every opertunity to help hamas run a good government should be taken.

The big problem will be the people, they elected an extremist government and may get pissed if they don't live up to their extremist ways.

 

[gick]

I vote we send all the narcotic products in the world to the governments of those two countries.
Soon after, it will be called Peace-And-Love Land and a national orgy will occur every two weeks.

You must be Dutch, right?

The big problem will be the people, they elected an extremist government and may get pissed if they don't live up to their extremist ways.

I think the fact that Hamas will not negotiate with the Israelis, and vice versa, is a big part of the problem.

 

[Ome_Vince]

imo indoctrinating 5-13 year old kids to strap bombs on them and blow up as many Israeli women and children is pure terrorism.
I've never seen/heard the US army drobbing bombs on Civies on purpose.
Its called "collateral damage" since insurgents/armed civilians->well there's a small line. Most insurgents like the shelter amongst civies to provoke collateral damage. Now you tell me who's responsible for their deaths?
As we all bash Israel for the occasional kid thats gets shot, nobody actually investigates into what happens.
Those soldiers dont shoot kids on purpose, usually its gunmen hiding in groups of children, and once you return fire its 9/10 you hit the kid. Other cases are usually collateral damage, never targetting on purpose.

Now i do have symphaty for the palestinians, for 90% of them just wish to carry on with their lives and dont want all this crap. Hamas wants Israel dead, and lets kids blow themselves up to provoke attacks -> get the population angry.

No matter what comparison anybody makes to Iraq, USA army or whatever, the goals are NEVER to hit civilians, cause bloodshed or annihilate people.

Its not a line of "what happened during combat" its a line of "what do you want". And its clear what the HAMAS wants.
Man the UN doesnt declare HAMAS as a terrorist organisation for nothing you know...

 

[Solaris]

I apporve of the voting of Hamas.

There not great, but maybe they'll get some organised resistance going.

Edit:

droping weakened uranum bombs on iraq was not called terrorism, it was called "mission". Isreal having more than 300 nuke bombs is not considered terrifing, iran's nuke activities are. what the **** are you talking about? you see a 4 year old kid killed, you know how many palastinian teenagers are murdered everyday? no, you don't. cause they don't tell you. there hasn't been a single day now that a teenager haven't died with those mother****ing Isrealis attacking them. you know they're aged 10-16?. palastinians throw stones, Isrealis shoot the **** out of their brains. if an Isreali kills a little girl coming near him, you'd say it's "OK", cause she might have been a suicide bomber, what the **** does that mean? have you ever seen that palastinian kid killed in front of his father's eye? while he was pleaing them to stop shooting? no, you haven't. cause all you hear and see is what they want you to. palastinians die everyday, so do Isrealis, but palastinians are fighting for their country, while Isrealis are occuping it. have you ever heard the death count? on average, everyday more than 10 palastinians die, while every 3 days, an Isreali soldier dies, and everyday only one or two soldiers get injured. you don't know that, cause they have only told you that HAMAS is a terrorist group, who the **** is terrorist man? people who fight for their country? or those who are occupying it?
and for ****'s sake don't talk about humanity with me, what the **** happened to hiroshima and nakazaki?
so you better get the **** out, cause you don't know anything, or you're not trying to mention any if you do.
****!

QFT. I completly agree. You said that excellantly, the west will campaign for Democracy until someone they don't like is elected.

You sir win the Solaris post of the week award.

Edit2: Whoever said the Isreali air force was great should read this
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1607450,00.html
They don't give a f**k who they terrorise, and you say they cause no collateral damage: LOOK AT ALL THESE CHILDREN WOUNDED AND KILLED BY ISREALI ATTACKS
http://www.americanintifada.com/collateral.htm

Edir3:

I've never seen/heard the US army drobbing bombs on Civies on purpose.

You think they didn't know Hiroshima and Nagisaki had civillians inside?

 

[clarky003]

You think they didn't know Hiroshima and Nagisaki had civillians inside?

Its just amazing that some people dont even know that. I swear even the american government dont even know theyve probably clocked up the largest civilian death toll out of any country on that incident alone.

 

[DeusExMachina]

Its just amazing that some people dont even know that. I swear even the american government dont even know theyve probably clocked up the largest civilian death toll out of any country on that incident alone.

I'm sure they do or else they wouldn't mention it all the time. Let's not forget when the US Air Force and British RAF bombed the shit out of Dresden. More people might've died there than Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

 

[Solaris]

I'm sure they do or else they wouldn't mention it all the time. Let's not forget when the US Air Force and British RAF bombed the shit out of Dresden. More people might've died there than Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Ye, it was like a hundred thousand civillians in one night.

And we were about to win anyway completely pointless.

It was revealled a while ago that Churchhill wanted to bomb civillian towns and villages towards the end of the war just to punish the german civillians.

 

[jerkasaur]

finally, someone pointed out a fact...

 

[Lemonking]

I say out a giant plastic bubble over the middle-east.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Great job Hamas. You won. Oh my, looks like you weren't expecting to take majority control. And my, I sincerely doubt you'll disarm and cease all your activities against Israel. Maybe Abbas can save the situation.

I feel bad for all the Fatah security forces. They actually clashed with Palestinian armed groups and at times attempted to disarm them.

NOW, the groups who have killed Palestinian Security Forces and gone unpunished are in power. It looks like they're going to be purged. Sad situation. I understand why they stormed the Parliament building.

 

[Solaris]

Great job Hamas. You won. Oh my, looks like you weren't expecting to take majority control. And my, I sincerely doubt you'll disarm and cease all your activities against Israel. Maybe Abbas can save the situation.

I feel bad for all the Fatah security forces. They actually clashed with Palestinian armed groups and at times attempted to disarm them.

NOW, the groups who have killed Palestinian Security Forces and gone unpunished are in power. It looks like they're going to be purged. Sad situation. I understand why they stormed the Parliament building.

Fatah forces tried to disarm the freedom fighters.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Fatah forces tried to disarm the freedom fighters.

"Among Israelis, already reeling from having a prime minister in a coma, there is no lack of shock and anger that Palestinian voters overwhelmingly chose a radical Islamic group with a deadly résumé: 21 dead at the disco here in 2001; 19 dead on the No. 32A bus in Jerusalem in 2002; 23 dead on the No. 2 bus in Jerusalem in 2003; a double bombing on buses in Beersheba in 2004, killing 16 and injuring 100. And that is only a small, and recent, part of the list."


It's not funny or witty Solaris. Calling them freedom fighters is just ****ed up, so really, at least cut the gimmick short there. Unless you're willing to face the families of the civillians Hamas intentionally murdered and say that to their face.

 

[Solaris]

"Among Israelis, already reeling from having a prime minister in a coma, there is no lack of shock and anger that Palestinian voters overwhelmingly chose a radical Islamic group with a deadly résumé: 21 dead at the disco here in 2001; 19 dead on the No. 32A bus in Jerusalem in 2002; 23 dead on the No. 2 bus in Jerusalem in 2003; a double bombing on buses in Beersheba in 2004, killing 16 and injuring 100. And that is only a small, and recent, part of the list."


It's not funny or witty Solaris. Calling them freedom fighters is just ****ed up, so really, at least cut the gimmick short there. Unless you're willing to face the families of the civillians Hamas intentionally murdered and say that to their face.

Wheres the link between Hamas and thoose suicide bombings.
Isreal create suicide bombers by creating widows and orphans.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Wheres the link between Hamas and thoose suicide bombings.
Isreal create suicide bombers by creating widows and orphans.

They claimed responsibility for them.

Those are just a few of many.

eg: Hamas claims responsibility for bus bombing
Updated Fri. May. 23 2003 8:29 AM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

The Islamic militant group Hamas claimed responsibility Friday for an attack on an Israeli bus in the Gaza Strip, one day after the new Palestinian prime minister asked



blah blah blah. If you'd like, you can find the many many murders sanctioned and claimed by Hamas.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

This is just those done by Hamas- for all see list of all deadly terrorist attacks - including those perpetrated by Hamas - since September 27, 2000.

Among the more infamous Hamas suicide bombings and terrorist attacks were (the following is a representative, not exhaustive, list):


The 1 June 2001 suicide bombing of a Tel Aviv discotheque, in which 21 people were murdered and 120 were wounded;
The 9 August 2001 suicide bombing of a Jerusalem restaurant, in which 15 people were murdered and 130 were wounded;
The 1 December 2001 double suicide bombing on the Ben Yehuda Street pedestrian mall in Jerusalem, in which 11 people were murdered and 188 were wounded;
The 2 December 2001 suicide bombing of a #16 bus in Haifa, in which 15 people were murdered and 40 were wounded;
The 9 March 2002 suicide bombing of a Jerusalem cafe, in which 11 people were murdered and 54 were wounded;
The 27 March 2002 suicide bombing of a Netanya hotel on the first night of Passover, in which 30 people were murdered and 140 were wounded;
The 18 June 2002 suicide bombing of a #32A bus in Jerusalem, in which 19 people were murdered and 74 were wounded;
The 4 August 2002 suicide bombing of #361 bus at Meron junction, in which nine people were murdered and 50 were wounded;
The 21 November 2002 suicide bombing of a #20 bus in Jerusalem, in which 11 people were murdered and 50 were wounded;
The 5 March 2003 suicide bombing of a #37 bus in Haifa, in which 17 people were murdered and 53 were wounded;
The 17 May 2003 suicide bombing in Hebron, in which two people were murdered;
The 18 May 2003 suicide bombing of a #6 bus in Jerusalem, in which seven people were murdered and 20 wounded;
The 11 June 2003 suicide bombing of #14A bus in Jerusalem, in which 11 people were murdered and over 100 were wounded;
The 19 August 2003 suicide bombing of a #2 bus in Jerusalem, in which 23 people were murdered and over 130 were wounded;
The 9 September 2003 suicide bombing of a hitchhiking post near the IDF base at Tzrifin, in which nine soldiers were murdered and 10 were wounded;
The 9 September 2003 suicide bombing of a Jerusalem cafe, in which seven people were murdered and 70 were wounded;
The 29 January 2004 suicide bombing of a #19 bus in Jerusalem, in which 11 people were murdered and 44 were wounded;
The 14 March 2004 double suicide bombing at Ashdod port, in which 10 people were murdered and 16 were wounded.
On Aug 31, 2004 16 people were killed and 100 wounded in two suicide bombings within minutes of each other on two Beersheba city buses, on route nos. 6 and 12.

 

[Solaris]

How about this?
http://www.palestinercs.org/crisistables/table_of_figures.htm