Hamas wins Palestinian election

[RakuraiTenjin]

How about this?
http://www.palestinercs.org/crisistables/table_of_figures.htm

How many are gunmen, how many are civilians?

And can you tell me if any of those civvies injured were intentionally targetted, specifically? No, they weren't.

Sorry, but while someone who was shot in crossfire because a gunman was shooting from their apartment window is a tragedy, it does not merit the defense of bombing a disco club that killed almost solely teenagers.

Edit: Just read this. Sickening. They have just proven they won't move the peace process forward, it is now a terrorist government.

"Hamas leaders meanwhile rejected as "blackmail" Western demands that it renounce violence against Israel or risk losing aid vital to the survival of the Palestinian Authority. Hopes of peacemaking with Israel have been pushed further into limbo."

 

[Solaris]

Edit: Just read this. Sickening. They have just proven they won't move the peace process forward, it is now a terrorist government.

"Hamas leaders meanwhile rejected as "blackmail" Western demands that it renounce violence against Israel or risk losing aid vital to the survival of the Palestinian Authority. Hopes of peacemaking with Israel have been pushed further into limbo."

It is Blackmail.

The US government wants them to call out for an end to resistance to an illgeal occupier who regually kill civillians and grab land, or else they lose aid.

What is the point in peace if they have to give up everything they own for it. They need to defend there land.

 

[DeusExMachina]

I think the entire Politics section can be summarized into one easy sentence.

What bullshit the world is.

 

[pvtbones]

quoted for depressing truth.

 

[Ome_Vince]

-HAMAS targets civilians on purpose, indoctrinates 8 year old kids to strap bombs on them to blow up other kids and women. They're to much of a coward to do it themselves..

-Israeli gunmen shooting civies is usually the result of a mediawar. Put civies up front, fight behind them, so if Israeli's return fire : civies get hit ( loads of casualties this way ). Also state Palestinians dont have a real army, so there's hardly anything to fight other than civies.
This meens any gunfight, or fight in general in which Palestinians die -> civilians.

I have sympathy for palestina, but definatly not for HAMAS...
HAMAS has 1 tactic : inflict as much civilian casualties, and make sure Israel inflicts as much civilian casualties to keep innocent palestinians who want to have a normal life angry at Israel and join up to the HAMAS.
Dirty way of tricking the enemy in shooting your civilians so you can maintain in power, and get support + international media support.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Isreal create suicide bombers by creating widows and orphans.

Don't give us that bullshit. You kill someone and it's your decision only - no one else is ****ing forcing you to. That applies to both sides. God I hate the whole ****ing thing.

 

[jerkasaur]

actually, you'll have a better chance to kill the ones responsible for your parents' death, than to just doing it for fun.

quoted for depressing truth.

you didn't quote anything!

 

[Solaris]

Don't give us that bullshit. You kill someone and it's your decision only - no one else is ****ing forcing you to. That applies to both sides. God I hate the whole ****ing thing.

Isreal shoot parents in front of children, they attack civillians.
They make people very sad, which makes people very angry.

Anger driven by sadness leads people to do things that they wouldn't dream of doing. Sure there not justified to kill civillians, but if Isreal didn't f**k up there lives and kill there parents/children/lovers then they wouldnt do it.

What possible legitimate reason does Isreal have behind it? Its got more than twice the size than it used to when it was created, its just expanded into Palestinian land. When they gave the tiniest bit of Palestine back, and people were refusing to leave, they were so careful they were as gentil as possible forcing people out.

When they took that land did they use the same tatics? No, they came in with little warning with bulldozers and knocked over houses with people in, and resistance was treated with violence.

Isreal have aboslutly no legitimate reason to occupy Palestine, so any resistance and violence that happens through the resistance whether it be to troops or civillians, is directly the fault of Isreal.

 

[jerkasaur]

agreed

 

[Sulkdodds]

Isreal shoot parents in front of children, they attack civillians.
They make people very sad, which makes people very angry.

Yeah, right, because it doesn't work the other way too?

 

[Solaris]

Yeah, right, because it doesn't work the other way too?

It does.

But palestine didn't invade Isreal.

 

[jerkasaur]

agreed again.

 

[Bait]

HAMAS is no more terroristic than the Israeli government. It's all a matter of perception. Don't fool yourselves into thinking that either side is free of blame. With that in mind, I am interested in seeing how the world reacts to the upcoming Israeli elections.

By the way, Sulkodds, don't try to put yourself in a position to understand the mindset of someone who lost everything. It just cheapens their loss.

 

[Solaris]

HAMAS is no more terroristic than the Israeli government. It's all a matter of perception. Don't fool yourselves into thinking that either side is free of blame. With that in mind, I am interested in seeing how the world reacts to the upcoming Israeli elections.

By the way, Sulkodds, don't try to put yourself in a position to understand the mindset of someone who lost everything. It just cheapens their loss.

I don't condone nor support the actions of Hamas, but I can understand and to some extent sympathise with the reasons behind them.

Isreal hold the keys to peace.

 

[Ome_Vince]

i dont sympathise with HAMAS, only with the palestinians.
I think the situation is fubar. And both parties want to carry on with their normal life, but "some organisations dont want this".
Some people profit from the ISraeli-Palestinian cause, and therefor attack at various times storming up anger.
HAMAS is one of them. They dont want the Palestinians to carry on with their lives, so they blow kids up in Israel and shove kids up at the front of gunfights and demonstrations, so that every casualty is an "innocent civilian".

Then if Israeli soldiers ( who are often young and inexperienced ) shoot, palestinian civies get upset and support Hamas.
In order to survive Hamas needs the Israeli hatred.

Its so clear and simple, im not saying who's ( country ) right or wrong, but certain organisations and mentalities are WRONG->hamas..
I wish certain people here would read more about the WW2 aftermath. How the Grey Wolves of nazi germany terrorised german people to prevent the country from being stable hoping they would blame it on the allies.
Dont you think its funny the UN ( not just the USA ), see the HAMAS as terrorists, as a terrorist organisation?
What would you say if Al Qaida goes into Afghanistan and wins the elections? I bet you they will, since the invasion of the west-> more support for Al Qaida.

There's a saying: "with the death of Arafat, who was saved?->The palestinian people...".
This guy was a Nr1 fraud. His legacy was a wife in Paris with 500 million of the palestinian peoples money...
Might be a better thing investing that in Palestinian growth rather than a schmucky wife in Paris right?

The only thing Israel could+should do is not do anything back. They're as dumb as my b%$^t in retaliating for every attack, for they're only feeding Hamas. Perhaps Israel profits from it aswell.

Think what you want, i symphatize with the Palestinians, and with Israel, but see Hamas as the greatest threat to Palestine. Now they will all be branded as terrorists...

 

[Solaris]

But Isreal are occupying Palestine, what are the Palestinians supposed to do, elect a nice government made out of rich people who could politely ask the Isrealis to stop shooting there ambulances and shooting their people?

 

[Ome_Vince]

Germany lost half its country after invading 2 times and losing.
Tha arabs lost country when they combined attacked Israel at least 3 times...

You see the Germans strapping dynamite on kids and blowing themselves up at busstops killing lots of polish, Austrian and Dutch Women and children?

No, they attacked, lost and the Allies took country away. Germany lost ALOT of land to Poland. See them whine about it and kill civies? No, they attacked, they lost.
Holland gave some land back during the 1970's. Israel is slowly giving country back ( like lately, watch the news on the Israeli pullout? ).

So in that sense, lets port our European situation to the middleeast. Which is a perfect example. All the arabs unite and fight to anihilate Israel 3-4 times and lose ( including palestinians)... What happens ? -> they lose land...
And hence slowly after a long enough period Israel gives it back-> like the Egyptian land, and lately some of the Palestinian territories.

Considering how its going, and comparing it to Europe, i'm doubting its about land, and not about -> religion...

 

[JNightshade]

Give Israel back to the Palestinians, and send the Jews to the moon. Problem solved.

 

[Solaris]

So in that sense, lets port our European situation to the middleeast. Which is a perfect example. All the arabs unite and fight to anihilate Israel 3-4 times and lose ( including palestinians)... What happens ? -> they lose land...
And hence slowly after a long enough period Israel gives it back-> like the Egyptian land, and lately some of the Palestinian territories.

Considering how its going, and comparing it to Europe, i'm doubting its about land, and not about -> religion...

So its justified to bulldoze the houses of civillians? And Occupy there streets shoot there ambulances and kill there children?

 

[K e r b e r o s]

its what the palestinian people democratically voted for at the end of the day.

Suffice to say this statement actually is true and was'nt bourn out of some militaristic coup of Palestinian Warhawks out to kick Israel to shit, then its going to cost them their peace.

If, Democratically they wanted peace and a nation, sorry folks, Fatahs the only way to go.

I think this is actually what needed to happen. Only with the most militant party in government can the road to peace really commence. If they really strive for peace, it can be done, especially since they'll be the ones negotiating it. I personally think this CAN be a step forward, so long as Hamas decides to take it. If not, well, Israel will not tolerate it, and we all know what happens then.

Has anyone taught the common laws of both War and Peace? They come hand in hand -- in Hamas's view and in Israel, peace will only come from conflict. And as we know of war, it is'int about whose right, but whose left.

Hamas can benefit from this, but Peace was never they're original mission. They're still fighting Nasser's and Anwar-Saddats war, and both of those Egyptians left the Palestinians behind.

droping weakened uranum bombs on iraq was not called terrorism[/qoute]

Pardon me, but before we take the dawn voyage on the wonderful boat called, "Angsty Annie" allow me to point a reverse scrutinity of this word you bring up.

Mis-sion. Was'nt it the Egyptian Kings, was'nt it the Jordanian Kings, The Saudis Leadership, The Syrians Leadership etc. etc. that has, for more then 72 years now, tried to chase every Jew and Homosexual out of the middle-east? Was'nt that a "mission also?"

If I've interepted this correctly, you want us to believe that Mission is soley a western word and bears with it the consequences of western action. You'd be mistaken to believe we'd be so Gullible. Tell me, how do you benefit in the ends of ends with Palestine and Israel?

Does your gas get cheaper? +20 Magic Power in your next D&D game? A girlfriend? Nethire. Nethire. Nethire.

You gain nothing from conflict because you seek to mindlessly not benefit from it. Least our war is for oil, and much more structured and economically founded reason. Your war is attrition. Combat failed the middle-eastern people in conquering Israel, and it will fail those such operations again.

Conflict and violence have a rooted failure. And Hamas will bring that failure.

having more than 300 nuke bombs is not considered terrifing, iran's nuke activities are.

No offense, but the odds of Israel nuking "us" 6043020002 to 1. I'd take Israel over Iran anyday. Plus, you forget. 72 years hounded by Middle Eastern repression and Western European Holocaust is what caused Israel to be born.

When you attack a man, you justify him. Remember 9/11? Perfect example for the staging grounds that would later be the second Gulf War.

you see a 4 year old kid killed, you know how many palastinian teenagers are murdered everyday?

For as involved as I'am with the conflict, I've seen it all, but by far, Israel hardly has to do anything to get nailed these days and its simply illogical. (And if you notice, they'res a lacking logical reason to their attempted Ethnic Cleansing by Adolf Hitler also.)

Oh, and so you know, Palestine has killed more Israeli Civilians then Israel has killed Palestinian Civilians, and thats a well known fact. To deny this is to conceal a furthered agenda, one that justifies Hamas future of destroying Palestine over the backs of conflicts.

http://www.ict.org.il/articles/articledet.cfm?articleid=440

mother****ing Isrealis attacking them.

I'm so sorry, but your mother****ing whatever your supporting has continually attacked Israel and Jews for no other reason then what they are, vowed to commit to a 2nd Holocaust, and now one that is threatened as Nuclear straight from Irans mouth.

Lets review 1967, and find out why Israel fights. Lets remind you of the truth in the saying, "No Choice".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War#Main_reasons_for_the_war

Now that I've said that ... moving on!

====

There not great, but maybe they'll get some organised resistance going.

What would this resistance achieve? What does all fighting achieve besides more fighting? Hamas's arrival is begging retribution -- they knew they would'nt be recognized by the state of Israel.

They've already chosen conflict, and you, of all people who remains to be so distant from it fails to tell anyone what you hope to have gained at the end of this stupor. So, what will you gain? What will ANYBODY?

How about this?

To retort, this:

http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/

They need to defend there land.

By attacking, Solaris. Oh, this is'int looking good for Palestine at all.

Isreal shoot parents in front of children, they attack civillians.

So do the Palestinians, so, how do you seek to benefit from this conflict. I ask all of you, what in your life becomes better, when war is fought and lost?

Victory? Defeat? Freedom? Your views are very black and white, and If I were you, I'd question yourself as Hamas's morale authority fanboy.

What they stand for, like all other organizations like it, is the continuation of this stupid war, which helps weak men to further their identity in an identitiless world. I hold pity for Hamas, but pity for the future victims of their attrocities and coups.

Hamas will only weaken Palestine, everyone knows that.

 

[Ome_Vince]

@Solaris , dont take individual actions and start a "sympathy war".
Do you want to discuss the Israel-Palestina issue, or do you want to discuss individual actions of groups and military personel?

For i can do that do:
Does territorial issues justify indoctrinating 5 year old kids so when they are 8-10 years old you strap a bomb on them and let them blow up innocent civilian women and children? Does that justify a collective assault aimed to whipe out an entire civilisation up until the last man-women and child?

Let me know what kind of discussion you want, for this is totally pointless.
You want to discuss the history, the ethnics of Israel-palestina?
Then do so without pointless propaganda for that works both ways and shows a weak debate...

 

[K e r b e r o s]

So its justified to bulldoze the houses of civillians? And Occupy there streets shoot there ambulances and kill there children?

What, and to bomb Israeli buses and school children? There is nothing better nor worse you and I could come with. This war between Israel and Palestine is a chest beating contest of religious wackos, and none on this forum can claim to benefit, unless, bombings is what you masterbate to.

 

[Solaris]

@Solaris , dont take individual actions and start a "sympathy war".
Do you want to discuss the Israel-Palestina issue, or do you want to discuss individual actions of groups and military personel?

For i can do that do:
Does territorial issues justify indoctrinating 5 year old kids so when they are 8-10 years old you strap a bomb on them and let them blow up innocent civilian women and children? Does that justify a collective assault aimed to whipe out an entire civilisation up until the last man-women and child?

Let me know what kind of discussion you want, for this is totally pointless.
You want to discuss the history, the ethnics of Israel-palestina?
Then do so without pointless propaganda for that works both ways and shows a weak debate...

No Killing of civillians is always wrong.

Isreal are creating the problem by occupying and killing palestinian people, if they gave back all the took since 1950's, there would be peace.

 

[Bait]

What, and to bomb Israeli buses and school children? There is nothing better nor worse you and I could come with. This war between Israel and Palestine is a chest beating contest of religious wackos, and none on this forum can claim to benefit, unless, bombings is what you masterbate to.

Israel is by no means as innocent as you make it out to be. Israel should be held accountable for war crimes against humanity. The manner in which Israel in the past and present has dealt with the palestinians is abhorrent. By no means am I saying that palestinians are free of blame either, but don't go making this seems as though Israel is the poor, ol' victim in this whole mess.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

The principles of the Hamas are stated in their Covenant or Charter, given in full below. Following are highlights.

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."

Ami Isseroff



No. They won't stop. The Palestinian nationalists and others who REALLY want peace and want a state coexisting with Israel peacefully will work towards it. Groups like Hamas won't stop. They want Haifa, they want Tel Aviv, they want the obliteration of the Jewish state.

 

[Solaris]

It isreal didn't create so much anger theese Nutjobs wouldn't have much support.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

It isreal didn't create so much anger theese Nutjobs wouldn't have much support.

Only by striking back when struck at. Israel has never invaded anyone in attack, only in defense. They've always, always been defending themselves. Every strike done by Israel is in response to an action commited beforehand.

 

[Bait]

No. They won't stop. The Palestinian nationalists and others who REALLY want peace and want a state coexisting with Israel peacefully will work towards it. Groups like Hamas won't stop. They want Haifa, they want Tel Aviv, they want the obliteration of the Jewish state.

As I said before, we are going to have to wait until the Israeli elections. Depending on how that goes, HAMAS may decide to cool itself down. God willing, anyways. Regardless, the Israeli election is going to be big as far as the solution to this conflict goes.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

As I said before, we are going to have to wait until the Israeli elections. Depending on how that goes, HAMAS may decide to cool itself down. God willing, anyways. Regardless, the Israeli election is going to be big as far as the solution to this conflict goes.

Hamas already said they would not give up violence, and labeled it as Western 'blackmail.'

Thinking of that, isn't that in essence an admittance of total wrongdoing anyway? I mean, someone has to have done something wrong which you have proof of anyway. I don't really consider it morally repugnant to blackmail someone into not murdering civilians.

 

[Bait]

Hamas already said they would not give up violence, and labeled it as Western 'blackmail.'

Thinking of that, isn't that in essence an admittance of total wrongdoing anyway? I mean, someone has to have done something wrong which you have proof of anyway. I don't really consider it morally repugnant to blackmail someone into not murdering civilians.

I think the term "blackmail" was a poor choice of words. I think it is pretty clear HAMAS has little to hide. Having said that, people have to stop and think. First, why did HAMAS win the election? Next, why does HAMAS have such a stance on Israel anyways? Finally, is it even possible for dialogue to occur between mediators and HAMAS and Israel?
People are too quick to rush to the conclusion that HAMAS is a belligerent group with no other motive than the sheer pleasure of killing. I am not saying you should agree with their methods of doing things, because I am in no way crazy about them myself, but still try to understand the rhyme and reason for their actions. Despite the appearance of things going on in Palestine, killing isn't occuring for the sheer sake of killing.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

I think the term "blackmail" was a poor choice of words. I think it is pretty clear HAMAS has little to hide. Having said that, people have to stop and think. First, why did HAMAS win the election? Next, why does HAMAS have such a stance on Israel anyways? Finally, is it even possible for dialogue to occur between mediators and HAMAS and Israel?
People are too quick to rush to the conclusion that HAMAS is a belligerent group with no other motive than the sheer pleasure of killing. I am not saying you should agree with their methods of doing things, because I am in no way crazy about them myself, but still try to understand the rhyme and reason for their actions. Despite the appearance of things going on in Palestine, killing isn't occuring for the sheer sake of killing.

It's going on for the establishment of a muslim state on the land of present day Israel, be it under Palestinian nationalism or part of a larger caliphate. They do not recognize Israel's right to exist, and consider Israeli civilians valid targets. That's the entire problem.

No, they're not killing just because 'they want to kill' but they ARE killing to wipe out Israel. A lot of the population of Palestine would also like to see that happen and agrees with them. That's just how it works. Sometimes Democracy can show wretchedness, this is an example of that.

 

[Ome_Vince]

funny how certain "people" are strategically ignoring various comments.
Especially Solaris who seems to be obsessed with various propaganda "destroy ambulance" "kill civilian" stories. Totally ignoring the Israeli counter-part stories or the real discussion and its history. In that sense Solaris by himself managed to destroy this discussion and turn it into a "sad-story"-fest. Congrats!

It seems Solaris wants a discussion about how "sad a story" he can come up with and blame Israel. Ok, how about HAMAS training+indoctrinating 8 year old kids to blow themselves up amongst innocent Israeli women and children.
How about these Palestinian indoctrinated children, how about their future, and the innocent Israeli civilians?

We have to decide what kind of discussion we want. We allready know what kind of discussion Solaris wants. What do you guys wants:

-Who can come up with the most sad story what happend in the middle-East and point fingers?

-Israel's history, the source of the problem and how we think it could be solved?

-The current palestinian HAMAS election, right or wrong?

Make a choice or stick around in this chaotic discussion which isnt leading us anywhere other than emotional outbreaks of systematically indoctrinated individuals....

 

[MeTurk]

Perhaps Israel profits from it aswell.

Of chorse they do, war is big business. Their are people benifiting, the weapons companys especially, they must be making a fortune off the Isreali's. You can bet the likes of hamas are making the most of their power over people and are nothing better than a mafia.

But the bottom line is, their both to blame for continuing this conflict. That something like this could continue in this day and age is digusting, what pisses me off the most is that these conflicts always seem to be between two religious groups, no matter what politics are involved. Two groups defending their version of the word of god through violence and ignorance. I'm not religious but I find that the lowest form of hypocracy.

 

[jerkasaur]

what i know is that isreal is occupying palestine, it's a war, both sides fight, but palestine for it's right, and isreal for it's ****ed up-ness.

 

[Ome_Vince]

Ah, now there's an interesting debate.
You know the Israeli history?
-Israel was founded as when the British left ( and in some parts like Haifa they were kicked out by Israeli's ) by the UN. These area's contained Jewish people only. Israel was puny.
-War of 1948 starts as the entire Arabic world disagree's. War is lost, palestinians flee, Israel expands.
-These attacks by all the arabic countries combined continue at least 3-4 more times ( in the 6-day war Israeli lost many troops the first few days ).

-With each war the arabs fight the Israeli's to anihilate Israel and Israel expands. Its called the spoils of war.. you attack -> you lose -> you lose land. And if your lucky you get it back many years after ( like now ).
Its happened as a normal thing throughout history. What do you want the Indians to claim the USA and blow themselves up? Or the British? How about Germany blowing up Poland for the territory lost? How about Egyptians blowing up African and middle-east countries for land lost during the Egyptian empire?

To put this all in perspective, lets take the World War 2 example:
-Germany attacks World War 1 : loses war -> loses lots of ground to Poland and the allies.

-Germany attacks World War 2 : loses war -> loses lots of ground to Poland and the allies.

So in that same argument, Germany should start sending out kids to blow themselves up in Holland, Poland, Austria and France to get the land back they lost by invading themselves?

Lets take another example, this time fictive:
Lets say Sicily of Italy is all Muslim. There are no christians or jews there. They seperate from Italy and the UN declares them "Achmed Country".
Now all of europe unites and attacks "Achmed Country" 3-4 times. Each time "Achmed Country" is stronger and defeats the coalition.
"Achmed Country" expands as the spoils of war.
Italy starts sending suicide bombers and armed civilians claiming they want "Achmed Country" anihilated and removed from Europe.

Now in all objectiveness how does this sound?
It sounds alot like Euro-racism right? Thats what the world would say. But now that it involves Jews and Muslims the story changes?

The whole Israeli-Palestinian conflict is an expanded version of the China-Taiwan independence thing.
Imagine China attacking Taiwan for total anihilation 3-4 times, Taiwan winning and expanding.

The normal thing to do is give back the land years later. As now slowly more and more land is given back. But still the arabs vowe to anihilate the entire Israel?

What does this honoustly sound like to you? Yup, a religious thing...
This happened so many times throughout history, territory is an excuse, its a religious war in mini-form.
It was all fine when the Jews lived there under Islamic rule, but now that thats gone, they must all die..

Forgive me but in that case i can hardly your "israeli #$%kupness"...

 

[jerkasaur]

if a country attacked yours and took control, you woudn't be saying that.

 

[Ome_Vince]

hehe, well a long time ago Belgium seperated from Holland.
Here me talking about "taking the country" back?

Also, "country attacked yours and took control". I think i just explained thats not really the case here, as an Arab coalition attacked Israel and lost time after time. Big difference...

 

[Yuri]

I am seriously waiting for you to strap a bomb to yourself and blow up children and the elderly, Solaris. You want to sing their praises, go do it yourself, and leave the f*cking sane world alone. I usually don't judge people by their political views, I like stern despite how he does everything liberal, and I liked gh0st despite his fanatical nationalism. But I'm not judging you on your political views-- because it becomes much less political and a lot more idiotic when you refer to terrorists that suicide bomb buses filled with children as "Freedom Fighters." Seems like you only have these viewpoints to get yourself attention.

So please, blow yourself up in the name of the IRA or Hamas or whatever the hell you want to keep defending.

I don't agree with what Palistine or Isreal does most of the time. I really wish that one or the other would realize that it is just a f*cking piece of land and that they need to stop being so crazy over it. I wonder why, when it is considered the "Holy Land" to each of them, it has been turned into a bloodbath for centuries by Christians, Jews, and Muslims alike.

what i know is that isreal is occupying palestine, it's a war, both sides fight, but palestine for it's right, and isreal for it's ****ed up-ness.

Then you obviously don't have any idea what you are talking about, and are basing your opinions on very little fact.

I think Ome_Vince's post is right on, though. I don't agree with a lot of the action that Isreal takes against the terrorism... but if buses filled with my country's children were being blown up daily by psycho fundementalists... I don't know what I would do.

 

[Solaris]

I am seriously waiting for you to strap a bomb to yourself and blow up children and the elderly, Solaris. You want to sing their praises, go do it yourself, and leave the f*cking sane world alone. I usually don't judge people by their political views, I like stern despite how he does everything liberal, and I liked gh0st despite his fanatical nationalism. But I'm not judging you on your political views-- because it becomes much less political and a lot more idiotic when you refer to terrorists that suicide bomb buses filled with children as "Freedom Fighters." Seems like you only have these viewpoints to get yourself attention.

There fighting for the freedom of the oppressed, the tatics that are used are illegitimate sometimes. I strongly oppose the killing of Isreali citizens, but I can understand what drives them and who is ultimately responcable.
I see the attacking of Isreali troops as a legitimate tactic, thats all, attacking civllians is rarely justified.

So please, blow yourself up in the name of the IRA or Hamas or whatever the hell you want to keep defending.

Please, I've already stated a number of times that the modern day IRA are bastards.

[/quote]

 

[Yuri]

There fighting for the freedom of the oppressed, the tatics that are used are illegitimate sometimes. I strongly oppose the killing of Isreali citizens, but I can understand what drives them and who is ultimately responcable.
I see the attacking of Isreali troops as a legitimate tactic, thats all, attacking civllians is rarely justified.

Please, I've already stated a number of times that the modern day IRA are bastards.

That's quite a change of heart from the beginning of this thread.

I apporve of the voting of Hamas.

There not great, but maybe they'll get some organised resistance going.

:|

Fatah forces tried to disarm the freedom fighters.

As Rajukii tenjins said, its not funny or witty. :|