Heh, HL2 losing mod teams right and left.

[Pi Mu Rho]

They're leaving in droves? Funny, more people join this site every day.

Mods leaving HL2 for other engines are:

a) No great loss

b) Deluded - there's no next-gen engines out (other than UT2004) with full mod tools and SDKs.

 

[The Mullinator]

meh, if their mod can be made just as easily on any current engine and not the Source engine (or other "next gen engine") then the mod was probably not going to be very unique in terms of gameplay anyway.

Im not saying any of the mods won't be good since the fact is I don't know anything about any of the mods that have decided to switch.

So just ignore me if I am blatantly wrong.

 

[Lobster]

Gimme the Game , The SDK , a few friends, and im happy

 

[Corupter]

Gimme the Game , The SDK , a few friends, and im happy

HERE HERE ....

Lets all here it for lobster

He has his own form of the bible i hope you all realise that he is practically GOD

 

[Zapp$ter]

They're leaving in droves? Funny, more people join this site every day.

Mods leaving HL2 for other engines are:

a) No great loss

b) Deluded - there's no next-gen engines out (other than UT2004) with full mod tools and SDKs.

How can you say that? Wouldn't it be better to play those same mods first before passing judgement on them? What if the next "counter-strike" was one of those mods that left for another engine?

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Commitment. Lack of.

 

[63]

It's just weeding out the uncommited moders before the game comes out. The people that were serious about making a HL2 Mod will stay...

 

[Hot Soup]

Pvt Ryan raised an interesting point for me. 9 times out of ten you see new model renders on phl but no skin , or the website is frankly piss poor. As frustrating as it must be not having the sdk to work on and get coding there is a wealth of things that people could do in the meantime so that for once we get a well fleshed out mod with complete website .. art galleries and what have you....

Sure I understand if it's a professional programmer wanting to get to work .. but I'm with Pi on this one.

 

[CyberSh33p]

frankly, I think all the best mods should come from existing teams (i.e. ones with HL1 mods), and aren't gonna jump ship anytime soon. sven coop 2 anyone?

 

[Alig]

They're leaving in droves? Funny, more people join this site every day.

Mods leaving HL2 for other engines are:

a) No great loss

b) Deluded - there's no next-gen engines out (other than UT2004) with full mod tools and SDKs.

Who had heard of counter-strike before it was released? Who thought CS would of made HL what it is? Are you that naive that you believe no other game out 'now' can make a mod as good as CS? Yes im very excited about HL2 but right at this very moment im enjoying FC and its 'amazing' engine, better than any other out there now, fact. I've got UT2004 as well of course and it doesnt come close in any MP map/mod/vehicle to FC's single player mode.

Dis FC but we all know its as next-gen as we are getting until doom3/HL2/Stalker comes out and afaik, doom3 is due out before any of them and absolutely no one except ID know what doom is like in MP because ID are as quiet as Valve, ive got a feeling that doom3 will revolutionize FPS's again like doom did, Still....i'll be playing HL2 a hell of alot though :thumbs:

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

I'm not even vaguely naive. I've been around long enough to see this pattern before. Modders announce mod with website and concept art. Modders jump engines as soon as they get bored of waiting/see something they think is better. Mod sinks without a trace.


I haven's "dissed" FC.

You can't hold it up as an example of a great game to mod for.

It. Has. No. SDK. Yet.

Just like HL2

 

[Apos]

I don't think the Doom3 multiplayer mod scene will be very big. Given that you are limited in players by performance issues and netcode, you will be fairly limited as to the gametypes you can get. I think Doom3 should be a fantastic vanilla DM experience, but I just don't see it being a giant mod platform.

Plenty of people have played Doom3 MP, and an outside company (Splash Damage) is handling most of the mapping duties and such, and they all say that it's pretty cool to duel with fewer players. But Doom3 was never meant to put MP on a high priority, and I don't see much outside of that. You certainly couldn't do a natural selection or a DoD on the Doom3 engine as shipped.

 

[Styloid]

If HL2 lives up to it's claim of having complex, dramatic character intereactions/scenes I think there will be mods who will have to go back to the drawing board... just slapping in your own models and levels may not be enough to get peoples' attention anymore.

 

[blahblahblah]

I don't think the Doom3 multiplayer mod scene will be very big. Given that you are limited in players by performance issues and netcode, you will be fairly limited as to the gametypes you can get. I think Doom3 should be a fantastic vanilla DM experience, but I just don't see it being a giant mod platform.

Plenty of people have played Doom3 MP, and an outside company (Splash Damage) is handling most of the mapping duties and such, and they all say that it's pretty cool to duel with fewer players. But Doom3 was never meant to put MP on a high priority, and I don't see much outside of that. You certainly couldn't do a natural selection or a DoD on the Doom3 engine as shipped.

I disagree with you. I think Doom3 multiplayer could be revolutionary because of the fact that only 4 people will be in per game. I have always enjoyed small, slower paced deathmatches because you could usually get to know other people you were playing against. Compare that to a game like BF:V where you may have teams, but you do not know anybody on your team. Smaller deathmatches will be a nice change of pace from the massive fragfests of today's MP games.

I also have heard that the Doom3 netcode is much more robust than we think it is. I believe it was a design decision by ID software to limit multiplayer matches to 4 people. You have to give ID software some credit when it comes to the mod and multiplayer scene, they are the ones who started it. I am positive if mod teams are willing to drop down the graphics quality a notch and/or the physics modeling, I bet Doom3 could handle any mod thrown at it.

 

[The Mullinator]

I disagree with you. I think Doom3 multiplayer could be revolutionary because of the fact that only 4 people will be in per game. I have always enjoyed small, slower paced deathmatches because you could usually get to know other people you were playing against. Compare that to a game like BF:V where you may have teams, but you do not know anybody on your team. Smaller deathmatches will be a nice change of pace from the massive fragfests of today's MP games.

I also have heard that the Doom3 netcode is much more robust than we think it is. I believe it was a design decision by ID software to limit multiplayer matches to 4 people. You have to give ID software some credit when it comes to the mod and multiplayer scene, they are the ones who started it. I am positive if mod teams are willing to drop down the graphics quality a notch and/or the physics modeling, I bet Doom3 could handle any mod thrown at it.

I wouldn't have considered it difficult for any HL2 mod to be built with a 4 player limit in mind.

 

[blahblahblah]

I wouldn't have considered it difficult for any HL2 mod to be built with a 4 player limit in mind.

What mods then?

 

[The Mullinator]

What mods then?

You said that since Doom 3 has allows only 4 players then it would cause revolutionary new mods to be developed. Fact is if anyone was going to take advantage of utilizing Doom 3's player limit then they really are not limited to using Doom 3.

I know no HL2 mods have been announced as having only 4 players but the fact is that Doom 3 won't neccesarily make it revolutionary.

 

[Styloid]

It'd be cool if everybody loved D3 4-player deathmatch. It'd be some kind of unintended revolution. Unlikely but cool.

 

[dura]

It's going to be hella fun on LAN.

 

[Apos]

I disagree with you. I think Doom3 multiplayer could be revolutionary because of the fact that only 4 people will be in per game. I have always enjoyed small, slower paced deathmatches because you could usually get to know other people you were playing against. Compare that to a game like BF:V where you may have teams, but you do not know anybody on your team. Smaller deathmatches will be a nice change of pace from the massive fragfests of today's MP games.

I agree that it will be a nice change of pace, and as I said, I think it will spark a revival of the fun of vanilla DM (though I've never found straight DM to be all THAT fun).

I also have heard that the Doom3 netcode is much more robust than we think it is. I believe it was a design decision by ID software to limit multiplayer matches to 4 people.

It is due to both graphical performance issues (the engine is already slow enough with 4 people running around, and wasn't really designed to handle too many moving objects at once) and the fact that the netcode is not built to be scaleable.

You have to give ID software some credit when it comes to the mod and multiplayer scene, they are the ones who started it.

Sure, but they have said many times that this game is a SP focus for them, just like Q3 was a multiplayer focus. It wasn't designed with MP in mind.

I am positive if mod teams are willing to drop down the graphics quality a notch and/or the physics modeling, I bet Doom3 could handle any mod thrown at it.

Then why use Doom3 at all? The main graphics performance issue is the shadowing: you CAN'T turn that off. It wasn't built to render wide and open outdoor scenes, and the netcode and physics are built to work in the peer-to-peer system that doesn't scale well to more players.

This isn't bad, I'm just saying that it's not as diverse or as flexible as other games are for the normal range of gametypes we normally see in mods. Maybe some really bright modders will have all sorts of really neat ideas for 2 v 2 gameplay, who knows. But for most mods, this is not the engine of choice. And there are no vehicles.

 

[Delgarto]

We already have a game that does 4 player or less deathmatch. Splinter Cell 2.

 

[chimpmunk]

Valve is only reaping what they sowed,
am i poetic?

 

[Shuzer]

Valve is only reaping what they sowed,
am i poetic?

no. .

 

[Apos]

Yeah, that's true. Given that virtually all games could have done 4 player deathmatch mods for the last couple of years, it's not like there was really a screaming demand for them...

 

[blahblahblah]

Yeah, that's true. Given that virtually all games could have done 4 player deathmatch mods for the last couple of years, it's not like there was really a screaming demand for them...

You know for some reason, I disagree with everything you say. But you do put up a good argument.

A good game isn't made by copying every game out there, it is by making a unique experience. Usually unique experiences come from game designs that aren't really expected or done well in the recent past. I think Doom 3 may be on to something with its 4 player MP. I just hope that they are taking the time to add some new modes of MP, to make it even more exciting. No reason to have modders do it when ID software(or whoever is doing MP) could spend the extra time to do it.

Btw, Doom3 does support vehicles. It just doesn't have it in game. I don't know if you were commenting about the game doom 3 supporting vehicles or the game engine itself.

 

[CyberSh33p]

You know for some reason, I disagree with everything you say. But you do put up a good argument.

A good game isn't made by copying every game out there, it is by making a unique experience. Usually unique experiences come from game designs that aren't really expected or done well in the recent past. I think Doom 3 may be on to something with its 4 player MP. I just hope that they are taking the time to add some new modes of MP, to make it even more exciting. No reason to have modders do it when ID software(or whoever is doing MP) could spend the extra time to do it.

Btw, Doom3 does support vehicles. It just doesn't have it in game. I don't know if you were commenting about the game doom 3 supporting vehicles or the game engine itself.

reason why 4 player MP sucks: I have more than three friends who would play doom3 with me. taking turns is not fun. they're onto nothing except how to leave someone out. Not to mention this is goddan deathmatch and a four player aspect would have little effect on it.

 

[Shuzer]

reason why 4 player MP sucks: I have more than three friends

No way! :O

 

[Darkside55]

If I'm not mistaken, Carmack already dismissed the whole, "4 player only deathmatch" thing. Doom 3 can support more players than that. If someone wants, I'll try to dig up the quote.

Back on topic, I haven't yet seen but one (possibly two) mods that were of interest to me that won't be ported over to HL2 (they were both HL1 mods; one decided to leave for UT2k4 but went bust, and the other one transfered coders, so its situation is unknown).
Like I've heard some people say, I'm also of the opinion that people who're jumping ship now are just going to be kicking themselves in the pants later. Really, really hard. Everyone who decided to mod on a different engine will probably come back, eventually.

 

[Wesisapie]

the problem is that each bullet is a simluated entity, with velocity and momentum and all those other properties interacting with the physics. rather than just hitscan. thats a number one problem if there's lots of players. every played sven coop with lots of people using the hornet gun? same problem.
4 play is no problem for me, because i only have a few friends that actually play games online, and would have a good enough computer to run d3 properly. getting friends of your own who are actually friends with each other is a problem too.

 

[Shuzer]

the problem is that each bullet is a simluated entity, with velocity and momentum and all those other properties interacting with the physics.

Oh man, I know people will probably kill me for saying this.. but that'd be awesome in CS lol
Too bad it'd be pretty boring with so few players

 

[blahblahblah]

*uses telepathic power to spontaneously combusts shuzers head*

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

I think Doom 3 may be on to something with its 4 player MP

There's been a lot of games that had 4-player, peer-to-peer deathmatch. The original Doom being one of them. You know why? It was a technical limitation, and everyone rejoiced when things moved to client/server and had higher player limits.

 

[Shuzer]

*uses telepathic power to spontaneously combusts shuzers head*

Ah, what's in a head? Other than my brain.. :x

 

[Noodlygod]

Just thought I'd back up Darkside here and reiterate that the Doom III engine does not have a 4 player limit. The maps it ships with do. I'll also go digging if you want me to but at one point Carmack said something like "I expect people will release 16 player maps almost immediatly". On topic: I also still think HL2 will be an excellent mod platform if for no reason other than the wide range of areas it can display. It looks like it can do large outdoor as well as citiscapes and indoor areas. FC Does amazing outdoor areas and the insides all look good to but it's definitely an outdoor game. Personally I'd love to see some sort of Jedi mod on the DIII Engine. I think that'd be sweet. =)

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Doom 3 has a 4-player limit. Carmack said he expects it to be modded with higher player limits almost immediately.

 

[blahblahblah]

Doom 3 has a 4-player limit. Carmack said he expects it to be modded with higher player limits almost immediately.

Lets agree to disagree. Doom 3 (the game) will only have 4 player deathmatch. But Doom 3 (the engine) will support more players out of the box.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Um, no. Because it won't.

 

[Noodlygod]

You sir are correct. At least this quote from willits was all I could find.

Tim Willits. "We're not planning on having CTF." However, Tim did mention that the limit on four players is a design decision not a hardware limitation, and the id boys expect an eight-player mod to appear online almost immediately.

From this article: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/r/?page=http://www.computerandvideogames.com/previews/previews_story.php(que)id=97758

 

[CyberSh33p]

No way! :O

bah. screw you

I was talking hypothetically, is that what you wanted to hear?! ;(

 

[Rupertvdb]

but then again..... HL2 shall be so overflooded with mods that it won't even be funny, this may well be the greatest gaming generation yet! We are breaking out into such a new world of gameplay that it will be insne.

In a more coherent fashion my point:

It doesn't matter that mods are moving away, the best mods get made when people have already played the game for a bit, their imagination gets captured and things really start to kick off, ignore these johnny no hopers who are screwing around right now.