HelpLife2.net: My employment dilemma

DreamThrall

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Hello, everyone. I don't generally talk much around here, so you may or may not know me well, but I wanted to get this off my chest in a pseudo-anonymous fashion, so here it goes.

Those of you that know me know that I'm a software engineer, and for better or worse, I absolutely love my job. I've got great benefits, I can work from home, and I get to solve some pretty interesting problems with software. On top of that, my career progression has been fairly quick - I went from junior engineer, to senior engineer, to manager in a little over 3 years, and I'm also making 1.5x the salary I originally started at. I don't say all this to gloat; rather, I just want you to understand the incredibly comfortable position I've enjoyed for the last 3.5 years.

Several months ago, my manager/mentor - more or less the guy responsible for most of the previous paragraph - announced he was going on an indefinite leave of absence. What followed was quite a bit of turmoil and pseudo-related internal drama I don't really care to get into. Our other senior engineer left, leaving me as the most senior tech at the company, which had its mixed blessings. In my manager's absence, things slowly began to fall apart, culminating in a meeting I had 2 weeks ago with the company's president in which he more or less told me that I was basically being pushed out of the company. They weren't firing me, but "it would be in my best interests to find another job".

I had mixed feelings about this - I'd been considering finding another job since my manager left, but the problem was, the circumstances had changed since the last time I'd been on a job hunt. I've got a child now, so I need to maintain health insurance. My wife has been diagnosed with MS, which means that said health insurance plan needs to be fairly kickass. We're used to making much more money now, so I need to be able find a job that will allow us to maintain our lifestyle. With a family, making a career change of any significance is ****ing terrifying.

So hold on to all that for a moment.

I've also been working on a side project of my own lately. It's a Facebook application that hooks into Amazon and lets people make wishlists so that their friends can do holiday shopping for them. I'm fairly confident that it can be a pretty decent success - the problem is just that I don't have the time to put into it in order to get it up and running as quickly as I would need it to. While I believe that I have the ability to make it a success, I just don't know how fast I'd be able to make it a stable, sustainable income.

So, I've been applying to all sorts of local positions and telecommuting positions, and some of them seem pretty interesting. I'm just worried that after 3.5 years of putting my heart into a company with the result it got me I'm just not going to be able to be passionate about whatever company I work for next. I'm also worried that when I do take a new job, it'll be so time and energy consuming that I'll have even less time for my side project, which is what I *really* want to do... and between both of those things happening I'll end up miserable.

So, I've been turning several options over in my head...

a) We have enough in savings to pay bills for a couple months, which should be more than enough time to finish and launch the personal project. The problem with this is that money supposed to be getting saved to put a downpayment on a house, and if it does flop, I'm leaving my family without any financial safety net.

b) Try and get someone to invest or fund me, even a friend or family member. Viable, I suppose, but it would probably take more time than I've got, and it seems silly to take on a business partner when I *can* do it all on my own.

c) Suck it up and get a new job, finish in my free time. Duh.

I suppose this isn't really a dilemma, because C is really the only option... but it really isn't what I want to do.

Being an adult sucks.

*sigh*

tl;dr: don't bother.
 
First I'd take the exact description of your side project out of the post, probably best to keep that kind of thing hush hush
 
You're right saying C is the only viable option. Hey, hopefully you get your project done quickly enough not to have to worry about the boring regular job for long.
 
Most people that start their own business as a result of losing a job will not make enough money in that business to live off. Businesses that you start yourself usually need a lot of time to progress. And if you can find another job then continue your side project that's absolutely the way to go.

That's really sucks though man, I wish you the best of luck. I always respected the position you were in and I hope if all works out for you. Good luck.
 
I'll put you up on ebay. What other things can you do?

I want 10% btw.
 
Wow dude. I remember you helping me out with java when I was in school....two years ago! I'm really sorry to hear about your wife and all of this job dilemma nonsense, but I know you're a smart guy and it'll all work out. And yes, of course C is the only option from my view as an outsider looking in.

Your website seems to be having problems too though :x
 
Thanks for the kind words everyone... My website's been down for a bit, haven't had time to fix it.
 
As a fellow programmer by career (though I'm not as high up as you by a long shot, I'm just an Intern right now and about to start looking for a full time position in the US) , I understand the appeal of your side project, but like you said, being an adult sucks, and in the end while your idea for the project is good (but I agree, take it off your post because it *could* be stolen) you have to take into account your wife/kids.

My hobby is making video games, but I have long since decided that it will never be my career, unless I am recruited by one of the good companies to work for. Why? Because I enjoy it now, and I know plenty of people in the industry who used to love it too, and hate it now. Its fun because I can do what I want with it, when I want it. No deadlines or responsibilities.

Your hobby is fun because it's stress free right now, but once you start trying to rely on it to make money, you will soon realize that it has become work and thus cease to be enjoyable and become stressful.

I'd honestly go for C. Keep your hobby on the backburner, and then reap the benefits when it is actually ready. Do you do your facebook app programming in .Net? I've actually worked on a few facebook apps if you're ever interested on getting help with your project.

But anyways... good luck. The job search will suck I'm sure, but the economy isn't too bad for people in our field, so far as I can tell.
 
Realistically speaking, if you didn't have a child and wife with health problems, I'd say go it alone for awhile and start up your own little business. But since your current situation is what it is, I'd recommend taking the safest route and finding another job. Also, either way there is a very, very high chance that you wont be able to sustain your comfortable lifestyle until you've settled into a new job and are secure in it. With the economy and industry the way it is, you may be looking at a decent drop in salary if you can't wait for a good opening, which I don't think you should be waiting for if you can only last a couple months without income.

Hope you can work something out that works for you. I get the feeling that i may be in a similar situation soon.
 
Don't you get a golden handshake if they fire you? That is if you got a decent contract.
 
I'm currently a web programmer and not a very good one. I have been at it for all of five months now and, while I've learned a lot, I'm not remotely close to what you'd call someone who's actually a programmer. I'm probably more so approaching what a recent CS graduate would be and even then I'm not sure that would be a legitimate comparison. Being an MIS major I had heavy influence in the business and management aspects of IT and programming was more of an afterthough. Keep that in mind.

I would still say to go with C like everyone else, but, given what I've observed I'm not sure if you're secure is avoiding A and B entirely. B may be out of the question considering the relatively low cost and return of apps these days. I wasn't even aware Facebook apps were lucrative to begin with. Sure you hear success stories of Iphone apps and the like making small fortunes for one or two guys who made it in their spare time, but like all things popular... it's becoming a corporate game. Software companies are throwing their hats in the ring and new apps are flying out of developers at an alarming rate.

So any time you take not developing this, regardless of how successful or lucrative it is, is another moment someone else could do so. As I become more apt at programming I keep telling myself "hey I should make an Android app," but then it fades into a realization that I don't know any Java and I'm still not a good programmer. Obviously you're a good programmer and if you think you can accomplish this while still establishing a solid career, put whatever free time in it you can.

The job market for programmers (especially .NET) is still fairly decent given the current times, though I'm sure it's regionally determined. I mean it's not what it was two years ago but they're out there. The problem is, it seems to be mostly big consulting companies and given you're a family man, traveling would prolly be an issue. Anyways, I hope everything works out for you and I hope to see your app around at some point... though I don't really use facebook apps (hence my ignorance of them).

Also - WPF sucks. Xaml is not as friendly as it needs to be with VB.NET and this application I've been working on is making that painful.
 
Hey DreamThrall. I'm really sorry to hear about your wife's diagnosis. That really sucks man.

Your job dilemma is something I really feel for you on too, since I've been envious(well not exactly envious... what I mean is a positive thing) of the job that you described in the past as having. That would be the one you're describing now.

Having a family definitely would make that side project a difficult prospect. I remember when I tried helping you on that other side project you had but bailed out because I felt I wasn't really ready for what was required of me, and I feel terrible about that.


If you ever want someone to talk to and vent to, I'm your man. I'm good at that. If you may have noticed, I don't really log onto AIM anymore, but I am always on MSN so you could hit me up there.




Sidenote: All the jobs for .NET and C# specifically in my area around Dallas... seem to be for web development related jobs. ASP.NET and the like. Kind of sucks... I wouldn't be able to get my foot in the door of any of them anyway since they're always requiring college level degrees and years of experience and shit. Blegh.
 
ASP.NET is not exactly web development. All the apps I make for my company are web based, but they are not web sites. It's the future really... I make apps that are compatible with every OS out there and don't require installation.
 
@Raz ... they always *ask* for years of experience and college, but they're never really required. Look for junior or entry level jobs, and just start applying, if nothing else just for the experience of writing your resume and the cover letters, and hopefully the interview process.

Since you don't have any pro experience yet, you'd be starting out on a crap salary ($30k-ish) or hourly wage ($20-ish), but it'll be experience nonetheless and you'll be able to work your way up from there.

Someone with decent skills and a year or two of decent experience can easily make $50-60k/year doing .NET.

I'd talk with some of the recruiters in your area, let them know you're just trying to get your foot in the door and are willing to work for cheap.
 
The safe route does sound like the best option. How confident are you that you'll be able to find a job quickly? Is it pretty much a certainty you'll be able to find a new job soon?

And I'm sorry to hear that about your wife :(

Sidenote: All the jobs for .NET and C# specifically in my area around Dallas... seem to be for web development related jobs. ASP.NET and the like. Kind of sucks... I wouldn't be able to get my foot in the door of any of them anyway since they're always requiring college level degrees and years of experience and shit. Blegh.

College degrees don't teach you anything programming related that you aren't able to pick up yourself in a year's time or so. Really, the only thing they're actually good for is the opportunity to do an internship and get your foot between the door at a company. The work you do there is far more educational if you have some colleagues that are passionate about software development.

A good substitute for an internship is perhaps to start contributing to an open source project of your choosing. I know that if I were an employer I'd hire an inspired, driven but formally "uneducated" developer who has made significant contributions to an open source project over someone who has only proven himself by meeting the substandard demands of some college. Willingness to learn and the aptitude to do so is the only important thing.
 
@Raz ... they always *ask* for years of experience and college, but they're never really required. Look for junior or entry level jobs, and just start applying, if nothing else just for the experience of writing your resume and the cover letters, and hopefully the interview process.

Since you don't have any pro experience yet, you'd be starting out on a crap salary ($30k-ish) or hourly wage ($20-ish), but it'll be experience nonetheless and you'll be able to work your way up from there.

Someone with decent skills and a year or two of decent experience can easily make $50-60k/year doing .NET.

I'd talk with some of the recruiters in your area, let them know you're just trying to get your foot in the door and are willing to work for cheap.

$20-ish an hour. Yeah... that's like more than my family has ever earned for an hourly wage before.

Once I finish my game I'll be able to put it on my resume, and that will be a very good thing.


I would offer to help you with your facebook project but I still have no real experience with the facebook API... or ASP.NET. Only C#.

Maybe we'll talk some time and we can figure out if I have the skills required for the project, but I don't want to have to leave you hanging before like i did that one time. That made me feel really bad.
 
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