HL:Source Overhaul modification

[jheaddon]

Half - Life : Extrinsic Motivation

We are in need of quite a few members for the team, although the mod will be very community based a team is really needed.

This Thread gives off some details and

This Site is well under progress.

So if you are interested you can contact me at :

[email protected]

We need all kind of team members so if you are good at, well..anything then try your luck

Cheers

 

[armanguy]

i wish you the best of luck.but what i would do is import all the hl2 models like gordan freeman into hl:source same goes with the scientist just change what there wearing.but you would have to make new army models or just use the cs:source models

 

[jheaddon]

Was planning to use the gman, freeman, eli etc models but make them slightly younger (and with all limbs )

Yeh already got the design document up with all needed models, quite a bit to do so need a couple modellers especially

 

[The Dark Elf]

Wouldn't it ultimately be easier to work from scratch rather than using bits from here and there and trying to make them "gel" together correctly.

Good luck though!

 

[jheaddon]

In theory yeh, will more than likely cause no idea what VALVe are like when it comes to things like this..

Any feelings on suggestions or the site?

 

[armanguy]

i dont know man it would take awhile to get enough modler to make all those models it would waty easier just to import thr .mdl into there mod thats what i think you can correct me if im wrong.

 

[The Dark Elf]

i dont know man it would take awhile to get enough modler to make all those models it would waty easier just to import thr .mdl into there mod thats what i think you can correct me if im wrong.

That would just be like a half arsed effort, which is what the current official HL:S and DOD:S and CS:S seems to be, I think it would just be better to work completely from scratch, making everything from the ground up, can do a lot more then and the extra effort will show.

 

[jheaddon]

Yeh if i'm going to be putting alot of hours into the mod i'd like it to be our work and that show like Elf'y baby said

Anybody interested in helping out then?

 

[Liam]

There is no freeman model by the way, not that you have need one.

 

[The Dark Elf]

Yeh if i'm going to be putting alot of hours into the mod i'd like it to be our work and that show like Elf'y baby said

Anybody interested in helping out then?

Dont forget to really spend months on the Garg design, that thing has to look AMAZING lol

 

[jheaddon]

You the 2D guru, what you have in mind? *cough* concept *cough*

Hadn't really quite got to the stage of looking at detail to each person or character yet, don't want to make them un-recognisable to their relevant HL1 bases.

How you want to make it look amazing whilst keeping true to the original, and i know its a big ass monster, of course that will be easily recognisable, but features wise. Other than a nice sexy poly count and some bump mapping

 

[The Dark Elf]

Well the texturing on the original hints at quite a lot more than they were able to show with the low polycounts

I also think it wouldn't hurt to deviate a little from the original style. There was almost a toonish look to certain things in HL1, again cause of the limitations.. I kinda see it as HL1 vs HL1 remake being like Doom compared to Doom3, everything being recognisable only more believable looking.. Like HL2, its a lot err deeper, for want of a better description.

I guess if I were creating the Xen creatures, I'd probably lean more towards the fleshy kind that were not used, the kingpin and friendly models. Those had great textures. And by the looks of it Valve moved more towards that if the Vortigaunts in HL2 are anything to go by, they seem more fleshy toned than the bright green shades the original had.

I'd probably drop a bit of Giger style into it too, but thats just me hehehe

 

[jheaddon]

Thanks for the comments Dark, will try keep you impressed

Feel free to throw something together or help out

The 50 or so textures completed are amazing if you've not seen them, look for the link on the original post in HL:Source section, mapcore one.

 

[The Dark Elf]

Yeah I caught those textures. Your not making them yourself then? I would really just do it all from scratch, every little bit. And built all the textures from 3D models, baking them, will generate all the maps you'll ever need, at any resolution you'll ever need (future proofing) aswell as automatically getting the correct normal and offset bump maps.

 

[jheaddon]

Haven't read up much on the texture side technology of Source, really should.

Think could send me in the right direction mate?

Those textures on mapcore just appealed to me because of some of the quality put into them, competely forgot about the 3D modelling tech

 

[The Dark Elf]

Haven't read up much on the texture side technology of Source, really should.

Think could send me in the right direction mate?

Those textures on mapcore just appealed to me because of some of the quality put into them, competely forgot about the 3D modelling tech

Well to begin with, I'd suggest (and this is partly why I think you should start completely from scratch) is ensure your using at least a normal map, specular map and a reflection map on every single texture. Even if its only very faint and barely used, people will notice it exists and its probably why the video's of C17 look so nice, Valve have apparantly used all those on almost everything but really faintly, hard to spot but makes a big difference.

Also consider the offset/parallax mapping, which works from just a simple grayscale bump map, providing Source creates those the same way other things do it.

Build all your textures from 3D geometry, walls, floors, windows, _everything_ build it all as 3D meshes, texture them using whatever methods you want, as many polys as you want. Bake those to flat planes to generate all the textures and maps you need. It gives you far far better results than hand painting, it gives you accurate normal maps generated from 3D geometry not from 2D imagery. It gives you all the maps you'll ever need, as separated individual image files.. It also means you've got your master object file which you can then use later to generate texture maps at any resolution you want, which will then slot into the game perfectly. So when video cards improve, just run off another set of textures using your master files.

Make plenty of use of texture lighting too, and don't be afraid to actually build standin area's in a 3D app, and bake all that detail to sets of images ready to place on a replica brush model within hammer.. Don't forget you can fake a lot of lighting effects that way which would be hard or impossible to do directly in hammer for example.

Build all your models with plenty of detail, really high poly stuff, and bake all that detail to low poly game cages. Try to avoid doing any texturing just by hand in photoshop, it'll show up against the 3D properly generated stuff.

Go to great lengths on this, doesn't matter if it takes you another three years to do, if your gonna do it, do it properly and put everything into it. Yeah, lots of other teams are gonna do the same, but I'd rather wait another few years and play HL1 with outstanding textures, scenes, models, than play one done by some team in a few months where they've just subdivided a few models and fiddled with a few textures.

Take apart HL1 completely, split each section down to its smallest area, and then redesign it, make things bigger and better, add windows, extra area's to explore, expand Black Mesa to something huge, create lots of new area's that didn't exist before, maybe throw in a number of side plots and missions. Really go out of your way to make it stand out.

Can see I had big plans for a HLSE if I'd done it like I was going to ages back heh, SW is more important now though

 

[The Dark Elf]

In all honesty, what I would suggest you do is build a grayscale map of Black Mesa, in plenty of detail in a 3D app.. all the area's, everything, like an interactive 3D overall map of ALL of HL1. Spend a year or so just doing that until you could fly a virtual camera around any part you wanted, right there within a vitual game inside Max or XSI, no creatures or anything, just the environments.. Then once you've got all that set out, go through and start adding all the minute details, start taking it apart, increasing detail and texturing until its as photorealistic as you can get it. Then begin baking all the textures from the environment that you'll ever need. And have someone in Hammer building the sections of the game following those 3D plans.

About another year later. Aim to have a completed Source mod of just the environments, nothing but those, all completed and looking amazing, so you can wander through them all.

Then start to work on the creatures and scripting and scenes and everything else in the game.

Doing it that way will mean your team will have this completed "world" to wander through at the time when most of them will be very tired working on it, so to see all the locations completed will boost confidence, and also give you some great excuses for teaser screenshots

 

[jheaddon]

Wow impressive, many thanks man

On your comments to huge map overhauls, first i thought about keeping to the original maps but upgrading many parts to models, such as pipes, doorways, and other things so that it kept true to the story and looked nice.

And then move onto the massive overhaul of all areas. You think is worth doing the latter on its own or both?

Also, meant to ask, what you think of the name and site?

 

[The Dark Elf]

I'd do the overhaul on everything.. You can do a great deal of improvements with how Black Mesa looked without harming the flow of the story atall. I imagine the original concept art for HL1 was pretty cool, but the technology just wouldn't have allowed them to go crazy with amazing looking scenes, which you can do now.

Take the Silo with the tentacles in it for example.. That was a great area that looked really good.. But in Source you could really open it up, make it a lot more complex and realistic.

The train ride at the start, thats a perfect candidate for improvement, the original was great, but it still had limits, which you wont have now. And all the area's you would see but would end up never being able to reach, make them reachable.

The test chamber, something that powerful could and should look more powerful, add extra equipment. Add mroe corridors and area's in the base.

Add more scientists, some engineers, like they tried to do later in blue shift, giving it a more realistic feel. Add things you knew were there but never saw in any of them, lots of doors that you could never open you should be able to now. Even if they don't go anywhere, the player being able to screw around and explore new things, im sure it'll go down well.

The outside maps could be really improved on too. Heck can you imagine how the dam would look in Source? Using the full size of a Source map, a very big damn, 3dskybox for the distant mountains and view.. It's just begging to be made atmospheric like that.

Xen too.. Xen could use a lot of work *cough* biomechanics *cough*

You've got a chance to make something special and I think you should pull out all the stops to do that. Add area's from Op4 and BS too. Really make the effort to show HL1 how it would have been if they'd just released it on today's technology.

 

[The Dark Elf]

Wow impressive, many thanks man

On your comments to huge map overhauls, first i thought about keeping to the original maps but upgrading many parts to models, such as pipes, doorways, and other things so that it kept true to the story and looked nice.

And then move onto the massive overhaul of all areas. You think is worth doing the latter on its own or both?

Also, meant to ask, what you think of the name and site?

I'd call it Half-Life: Special Edition, but thats just me hehe, dunno about the site. You know I think making a site at the beginning is a pointless effort that wastes times and should be left until the end.

 

[jheaddon]

You trying to flare your old title to me?

Went with Extrinsic Motivation cause its relevant and sounds original, not like every other HL mod.

The site is being done by a friend so not taking up much extra time, just need somewhere to advertise and host things like the overall design document.

You ever stopped to breathe between posts? RSI is a bad bad thing

Thanks again mate

 

[The Dark Elf]

You trying to flare your old title to me?

Went with Extrinsic Motivation cause its relevant and sounds original, not like every other HL mod.

The site is being done by a friend so not taking up much extra time, just need somewhere to advertise and host things like the overall design document.

You ever stopped to breathe between posts? RSI is a bad bad thing

Thanks again mate

heh no worries.. while talking to you im doodling a biomechanical design of Xen for the hell of it

 

[jheaddon]

Ooh post when its done so can see exactly what you mean

Agreed xen needs a hell of alot of work Can really go crazy with the geometry now like i'm guessing they highly wanted to

 

[The Dark Elf]

Ooh post when its done so can see exactly what you mean

Agreed xen needs a hell of alot of work Can really go crazy with the geometry now like i'm guessing they highly wanted to

Rarr img tags are back :E

 

[jheaddon]

holy hell

very impressive!

 

[The Dark Elf]

Do Xen like that and I'll never play another game again lol

 

[jheaddon]

Can see many concepts coming up soon

Got anything else to show?

I'm not overly skilled in the 2D department, why i was going to limit myself to doing the overheads of all levels

 

[The Dark Elf]

Naa I was making a cuppa and watching 2001

bunch of random art here though
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=35093&page=1&pp=40

I don't mind doing it though providing its that style cause I'm more comfortable doing biomechanics than the other kinds.

One advantage to a Xen style like that, is it can continue to look complex without slowing down the engine with lots on screen at once, since it would lend itself easily to overhangs, valley's and lots of twisty turny corridors and passage ways. Then you could build a very basic brush based layout, to handle all the occlusion, and stick the prop/meshes of the actual style over those.. Basically being able to break the rule of not building a map with props hehe.

I'd imagine too, with that kind of style, it would be possible to build up a library of the parts and just use them over and over in different sizes, rotations and combinations to create different kinds of structures.

I think, well personally. That its kinda the style Valve wanted in the beginning for Xen, only something like that made with brushes, I don't think anyone would try attempt it so I can't blame them not doing it that way. But with props, it could be possible. Very spooky too

 

[jheaddon]

Looking at the picture again kind of confused as to how that would relate ingame.

Can't quite picture a landscape based on your image, not sure if i'm looking at it the wrong way or what.. just looks so..busy

 

[The Dark Elf]

Hehe

It's just part of that painting style, strange perspectives. It's always been a big challenge to turn the style into 3D, only a few people have tried and even less managed it.

In reality though its pretty simple, its the texture that makes it. The basic idea would be Xen is one big living "thing" so you wouldn't know if a part of it was going to jump up at you or move at the last minute. Again, with brushes alone thats simply impossible. But with meshes its easier, you could have area's of Xen moving and changing to open up different places to explore.

It's also an image from high up, you the player would be deep within it, seeing these things towering above in a dark sky

 

[jheaddon]

Ahh ok get you now

Was looking at is with those things the same height as the player,my bad!

Nice concept, will have to see what can do, might need your help later on though to make sure is done to full potential!

 

[The Dark Elf]

hehe cool, so your gonna do Xen like that? wicked

 

[NetWarriorDan]

I agree with everything Dark Elf said. I use a 3d app and can do somethings you said. I can make bump maps from 3d objects. I could look at the HL maps and create them in the program and put them together. Here is a sample of my work.

It's my first attempt at moddling a character. It's not easy.

 

[The Dark Elf]

not a bad model though for a first attempt, obviously some things don't work, but ofr a first go at one, and their not never easy, its not bad.

Have a go at something like Xen, give heddon confidence that it would be possible hehe

 

[jheaddon]

thats headdon Dark Elf

Not bad atall for a first model, keep practising got plenty of time to work on it whilst all the levels are constructed hehe

 

[The Dark Elf]

hehe can I blame it on a typo?

-

How do you plan on working on the levels. building them in a 3D app to get an idea of how they would look?

hmm, come to think of it, aren't you that modeler guy I was really impressed with? from ages back, asked you to do some tutorials for the site but you didn't hehe. IIRC you (if it was you) did some really good character models, aswell as a very cool looking part of some city.

It's probably not you, just the name seems familiar for some reason heh

 

[jheaddon]

Hehe nope not me, wish it was

I was planning first to draft out (draw) some layouts for the first few levels, how they are now and how i see they could be. Then get the team to sit around and talk about each level in detail, elaborate the plans.

Then put them into 3D world and expand from there, what you reckon?

No no typo's here

 

[The Dark Elf]

Sounds good to me.

What I'd probably do is pick out the "set scenes", where the big action elements happen, build upon those and then tie them together. So you'd start say for example with the test chamber, the dam, the other text chamber from toward the end, the train ride. Get the basic setup of each of those, improve them, recreate them as they should look, and then work out from there, doing the lesser area's and moving down to the misc stuff like corridors etc. From there then start working on area's that'll be new to your version.

Course before doing all that I'd decide on a set style for it, which even though HL2 has its own style, you shouldn't feel your _forced_ to go with the same style. I'd take a look at Doom3 and see how they turned the old Doom maps into the Doom3 versions, there's a number of area's that are recognisable from the original even though they now look very different.

 

[jheaddon]

Am liking that plan a lot. Thanks again Could use you on the team

Am heading back up to uni in an hour or so but over next few days will draft out some stuff when get the time Got plenty of it actually so

 

[superjuanchango]

Isn't that what is comming with the game...? The originalHL on source? Whats the difference?