HL2 - Missed the Bar...

[skater4evr5]

:naughty: clicky on my picky

 

[subtlesnake]

Those that claim their view is somehow superior because they somehow asses things critically are falling victim to the same fallacy.

In breaking a game down into it's fundimental constituents you shatter the illusion. A game is but a collection of discrete challenges that are repeated over and over again. Out of this has to come excitement, fear, tension, exhileration.

Gameplay itself means nothing without the underlying emotional reaction. This is why some people love Doom 3 and some people don't. The people that love it see beyond it's mechanics and appreciate it as an experience - the sights, sounds, the feel. You can't articulate such things, especially not on a discussion forum. So the detractors can claim that Doom 3 was a derrivative experience that just involved mindlessly shooting monsters, and the fans try to claim that Doom 3 was a great game anyway but can't really explain why in technical terms.

It's the same situation with HL2. People analyse it, discover that actually a lot of the gameplay is repeated and that it's actually quite linear and use that to try to objectively claim that it wasn't all that special. Those that don't rate the enjoyment of HL2 this way are called fanboys and accused of not thinking critically.

There is no such thing as the perfect game. There is no such thing as an objective rating system. Critical thinking plays no direct part in having fun. The totality of the experience is what matters and this will be different for every person.

 

[JimmyPage]

2nd best FPS ever (1st comes Half-Life :E)

*cough* DEUS EX *cough*

 

[demon_fall]

Originally Posted by Spartan
Instead of repeating, I'll re-explain:

Gordon is suddenly on a train in City 17, ten years in a future controlled by his old administrator Breen, who represents an alien power called the Combine. Does Gordon wonder what's going on? Is he baffled? Confused? Does he ask questions?

Does he F-CK!

He just blindly charges forward like a stoned homicidal maniac, without knowing what's going on and why. Then again, even if he did ask, it would probably go something like this:

Gordon: What the hell is going on, Barney? Where am I?
* roof crashes, Combine soldiers descend from above *
Barney: OMG SHIT YOU GOTTA GET TO ELI HE IS SOMEWHERE NO TIME TO TELL WHERE GO GO GO!!!!!
Barney: But before you go, let's spend some time on a pointless subplot about a funny headcrab instead of informing you of the basics... .... done. NOW GO!

Or...

Gordon: Why me? Why am I so important? I'm just another guy.
Resistance guy: You are The One. Take this RPG and kill someone.

(note: if we compare this with the Matrix, Neo has doubt about himself is wondering why people are making a big deal about him - Gordon isn't doubting, wondering or thinking about anything at all. I know someone will counter this with "well, YOU are Gordon," but that's pointless because I, the player, can't ask the NPCs any questions, like Gordon could.)

Or...

Gordon: Alyx, I've murdered thousands of people, don't sweat it. I'll just kill everyone again and Eli can continue his research.
Alyx: No! It is imperative that you go to Ravenholm for no reason other than to dick around with physics, expose yourself to unimaginable danger and end up on the coast just in time to rescue my father who will no doubt be kidnapped soon because you weren't here!

Hi I'm a higly trained, special Marine soldier on Mars uncapable of holding a gun while I hold my flashlight.

I go around picking up dead peoples PDA's so I can listening to 5 minutes monologues by some guy telling me about how he did so well wiping his ass this morning or perhaps he will tell me that there is something going on in the Deltalabs now, like the 10 guys did before him, to finaly hear the new number to his locker...

And then I usually go down a dark hallway... uhh, am I going in circles?? I swear I've been here before... hmm, nope, this one is new. Oh well... guess I have to lower my pistol so I can use my flashlight then...

As someone said earlier, go to a Doom3 forum if you want to preach people on what you think is a bad story or gameplay, because you obviously have come to the wrong place.

I've seen a bad story and a terrible gameplay, and HL2 does not qulify to be put in that category.

 

[Sharpfish]

Those that claim their view is somehow superior because they somehow asses things critically are falling victim to the same fallacy.

In breaking a game down into it's fundimental constituents you shatter the illusion. A game is but a collection of discrete challenges that are repeated over and over again. Out of this has to come excitement, fear, tension, exhileration.

Gameplay itself means nothing without the underlying emotional reaction. This is why some people love Doom 3 and some people don't. The people that love it see beyond it's mechanics and appreciate it as an experience - the sights, sounds, the feel. You can't articulate such things, especially not on a discussion forum. So the detractors can claim that Doom 3 was a derrivative experience that just involved mindlessly shooting monsters, and the fans try to claim that Doom 3 was a great game anyway but can't really explain why in technical terms.

It's the same situation with HL2. People analyse it, discover that actually a lot of the gameplay is repeated and that it's actually quite linear and use that to try to objectively claim that it wasn't all that special. Those that don't rate the enjoyment of HL2 this way are called fanboys and accused of not thinking critically.

There is no such thing as the perfect game. There is no such thing as an objective rating system. Critical thinking plays no direct part in having fun. The totality of the experience is what matters and this will be different for every person.

forget the being critical part. That was a comment aimed at anyone (and they are out there) who decided this would be the best game ever, before they had played it - based on reviews, or hype. Which is completely different to what you are talking about. And I agree with what you are saying, and trust me I have managed to enjoy a LOT of games that had flaws or even not very good reviews, based on the feel and *overall* enjoyment of them. Doom3, Painkiller, Tron2.0 are 3 games I think are great even though they have flaws and not always good reviews. The reason I do not feel as charitable towards HL2 as I do towards those games, is not really because I am overly critical, it is because the mechanics of HL2 are rammed down your throat.

Valve> I'm sorry if being an older gamer excludes me from enjoying the sense of wonder "at any cost" in a game such as yours. I can overlook many things to enjoy the experience, firstly because I love games and WANT to enjoy them. Secondly because I have paid for the game and want to get my monies worth and be entertained. As soon as the great stuff in HL2 kicked in, I was doubting my previous opinion about it being not - that - good. After it had passed I felt empty again, more precisely the already widely noted flaws of the game from linearity, A.I dumbness (squad blocking you) etc to ergonmic user friendliness (camera system, loading times) - all managed to rekindle the original feeling I had towards the game. That overall it is an extremely cool piece of technolgy to "enjoy" and to revel in (physics) but just didn't ever become that fun. I know the kind of fun I am talking about is possible because I have felt it in games from as far back as my Atari VCS owning days in 82.

You see, really, I think Valve over-stretched themselves and let the game down. They tried to do too many things but were not actually capable (for whatever reason) of packaging it into a solid experience.

Of course people are different, as are their expectations, their game playing history and their tastes. So I can now understand and apreciate how many of you can be content with the great posistives within HL2 and hold it as your best game ever, but for many others (a section that seems to be growing daily) we can not forgive it for the bitter taste it leaves in our mouths. Sweet pockets of next-gen fun surrounded by stupid development decisions and average gaming conventions. We all deserve an opinion on HL2, we bought it, whether we should continue posting here or not is irrelevent (though I can say I won't be here much longer some may be glad to hear ) as there is nothing to hold me to the game. Just another in a line of shooters with some neat physics and some nice graphics. Problem is a lot of those others in that line did NOT have the PITA aspects that this game posseses, and even without the hype or heavy review scores will continue to be some of my favourites on the PC.

That is all I can say (and repeat ) on the matter. Maybe it is time we all just stopped trying to make the other side see what we see. Judging it on a case by case basis there are people dissapointed in the game and some who HATE the game because of the way it leaves them feeling (Steam, Loading times, Stutter bugs etc) - for others the game itself is enough to pull them through all that to see the game as perfection, or at least, the "best fps ever" - well sorry but I just can not feel that way about something which when you remove the physics and the apparently amazing facial animation (which does little for me, It is not a million miles away from other games I have seen surely? and even if it was - is just another cool ingredient in an otherwise overcooked pie of features trying to be a solid game), you will see a game that is LACKING compared to some of it's peers, and yet they get put down in HL2s massive wake.

There are some people missing serious fun out there if they restrict themselves to thinking this game is the best thing available now and won't entertain the thought of any other game.

 

[subtlesnake]

As you say yourself, your expectations and prior experience of the genre has coloured your impressions. If HL2 was the first fps you'd ever played I'm sure you would think of it as perfect.

IMO the problem with HL2 is that many wanted it to be a next-gen shooter in every respect. They wanted it to take Far Cry's non linearity and fit that into a diverse single player experience. They wanted revolutionary A.I that could adapt to a changing environment, an incredibly detailed but mysterious plot, and a world that was completely free of transitions and immersion breaking occurrences.

Well Valve can't solve every problem. So they delivered a massively expanded version of the original HL. And ultimately, that's all that was realistic. It's easy to criticise but if you were in their position what would you have done instead?

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

I don't think linearity is a criticism of the game anyway. Valve didn't attempt to make a non-linear game - they did a follow-up to Half-Life, which means retaining the core gameplay. In that respect, it succeeded.

 

[Stooby]

You know...I somewhat compare Half Life 2's story to Matrix: Reloaded.
Not in terms of product quality...but in terms of what the product gives you to work with.

I really liked Reloaded, because it gave you things to think about. You could make your own theories about what was going on...about why characters acted the way they did, etc. It allowed you that freedom by not putting forth everything in your face. When Revolutions came out...it somewhat ruined the film - meaning those theories you had about previous events suddenly didn't matter.

Half Life 2 allows you those freedoms again. You are free to explore the game, theorizing about what is going on in the storyline. If they answered all your questions, i wouldn't find it as much fun. In fact...if you look a little deeper, they have answered some questions about Half Life 1 with the second game. I hope they do the same with the third - answer some about 2, maybe even some about 1, but raise a whole slew of new questions.

Of course, you are going to get out of a game what you put in to it. Generally, if you expect something not to live up to your expectations, it won't. I expected a lot from Half Life 2 - and i thought it would live up to them. In my opinion - it did. If that makes me a fanboy, then so be it.

And just as another thing - I think it's unfair to cite what was cut from the game as grounds for critisizing it. Valve didn't want to make a bad game. They didn't have to rush it if they didn't want to. Come on...it's valve. If something was cut from the game - then it was cut with good reason.

Take the game for what it is - instead of what you want it to be. If what it is doesn't please you simply because it isn't what you want it to be, then perhaps you're thinking a little too much about this particular game and your expectations of it.

Nothing will ever be perfect for everyone.

 

[hordaktheman]

You know...I somewhat compare Half Life 2's story to Matrix: Reloaded.
Not in terms of product quality...but in terms of what the product gives you to work with.

I really liked Reloaded, because it gave you things to think about. You could make your own theories about what was going on...about why characters acted the way they did, etc. It allowed you that freedom by not putting forth everything in your face. When Revolutions came out...it somewhat ruined the film - meaning those theories you had about previous events suddenly didn't matter.

Half Life 2 allows you those freedoms again. You are free to explore the game, theorizing about what is going on in the storyline. If they answered all your questions, i wouldn't find it as much fun. In fact...if you look a little deeper, they have answered some questions about Half Life 1 with the second game. I hope they do the same with the third - answer some about 2, maybe even some about 1, but raise a whole slew of new questions.

Of course, you are going to get out of a game what you put in to it. Generally, if you expect something not to live up to your expectations, it won't. I expected a lot from Half Life 2 - and i thought it would live up to them. In my opinion - it did. If that makes me a fanboy, then so be it.

And just as another thing - I think it's unfair to cite what was cut from the game as grounds for critisizing it. Valve didn't want to make a bad game. They didn't have to rush it if they didn't want to. Come on...it's valve. If something was cut from the game - then it was cut with good reason.

Take the game for what it is - instead of what you want it to be. If what it is doesn't please you simply because it isn't what you want it to be, then perhaps you're thinking a little too much about this particular game and your expectations of it.

Nothing will ever be perfect for everyone.

Heh, I hated the Matrix sequels. But as crap as the pretend-philosophy turned out, they still had good action sequences. Sorta like HL2, actually.

I just hope we're not seeing a trend in the entertainment industry, where everybody who "gets it" starts thinking of himself as "an intellectual"... I still hate Kevin Spacey for K-PAX.

 

[Soldcar4gasmony]

Revolutionary implementation of physics, really good story for an fps, great graphics, very good AI (although nothing new), amazing sound quality and effects, great gameplay variety for a fps, absolutely brilliant level design, perfectly paced, loads of little secrets, good arsenal of weapons (none of them feel redundant and all are useful), revolutionary in-game character animations, overall attention to detail...

Sorry, physics were good.AI was pathetic there was nothing that differentiated the elites from the grunts, they acted the same.Gameplay was mediocre, no level was harder than the other,it was an easy game. Non of them felt redundant and were useful? crowbar never touched after first level, crossbow..lame. Sniper rifle would have been nice.Try some specifics, what secrets? i must have missed them and i turned over most crates and looked at most posters.




A complete makeover of the most popular online action game of all time is not exactly what the obvious majority of pc gamers would consider "no multiplayer".

Most popular? in your circle maybe.i even thought shogo was better than HL1.



Then you'll be proven wrong.... or you'll resort to labeling the vast majority of pc gamers that enjoy fps as hl2 fanboys.

yeah, like HL1 didn't fall into obscurity. I only picked it up b/c it was in a bargain bin. Without MP and the way word is getting out about this game, it will be a forgotten.

 

[Soldcar4gasmony]

The vast majority of what was shown made it into the game.

Really? The Hydra? The dock scene? People getting impaled by striders? The strider shooting that time altering beam at players? The bink of Eli's office is the only one that i remember making it.

 

[Soldcar4gasmony]

oh poor baby....did oo have preconcived ideas about how great the game would be because somebody else liked it....oooh i feel so sorry for oo.

Get with the program, if you want to winge about how you didn't like the game then piss off and go to the Doom 3 forums any winge about it there.

HONESTLY!!!! Quit winging, nobody gives a flying kangaroo poo what you thought of the game, as long as i liked it (which i did) i don't care whether you thought it wasn't up to your "high standards".

If that was true you wouldn't have said anything....lol

 

[HadouKen24]

yeah, like HL1 didn't fall into obscurity. I only picked it up b/c it was in a bargain bin. Without MP and the way word is getting out about this game, it will be a forgotten.

Without MP? LOL.

We've known for a good couple of hours now that there will be an official HL2: DM.

 

[SFLUFAN]

SoldCar4GasMony:

God almighty - you're STILL here? Geeze - you, Odysseus, and Spartan must either be masochists or incredibly stupid to be constantly posting on a game's fan site despite the fact that the 3 of clearly dislike the game immensely.

 

[DarkStar]

I can't believe this thread is still here. The whole thing is pointless.

HL2 is clearly an incredible game.

 

[PvtRyan]

Really? The Hydra? The dock scene? People getting impaled by striders? The strider shooting that time altering beam at players? The bink of Eli's office is the only one that i remember making it.

Why yes, because once a developer shows you something, they have an obligation to put it into the actual game, despite whether it would work or not.

Not to mention pretty much everything WAS in there:

- Docks. Was this an interesting gameplay? It's a freakin pier for god's sake! Simply a way to show off some pretty water.
- Tunnels. In there, but altered. Hydra was removed because it didn't work.
- Bugbait, in there, but altered.
- Traptown, in there, only is Ravenholm not inhabited by Combine.
- Buggy, in there.
- Barricade, plenty of scenes like that in Anticitizen One and Follow Freeman.
- Same goes for Striders, plenty of replacements for that.

You would have most likely bitched any way if the scenes weren't altered but a copy paste job.

De 2003 binks were a proof-of-concept techdemo, but can you point me to one thing from the real gameplay 2004 binks that wasn't in the game?

 

[StAtiC]

HL2DM anyone? I'm flippin' out and my mom thinks im high...

 

[Mr.Wotsit]

Hmmmm I wonder if the soon to be released multiplayer will raise the bar for similar efforts shipped with singplayer games from now on...


*stirs*

 

[Ennui]

there IS mp... hl2dm comes out this week.

cliffe confirmed it.

 

[The Mullinator]

Really? The Hydra? The dock scene? People getting impaled by striders? The strider shooting that time altering beam at players? The bink of Eli's office is the only one that i remember making it.

Last I checked things are always getting cut from games. Fact is just because things like the dock scene were cut doesn't mean it wasn't replaced by something else. Also the Striders do shoot that beam at you, you just didn't notice it.

yeah, like HL1 didn't fall into obscurity. I only picked it up b/c it was in a bargain bin. Without MP and the way word is getting out about this game, it will be a forgotten.

Have you checked the server stats over at www.gamespy.com recently? Half-Life 1 related games (its mods) are in the lead with the total number of players with 58,320 people as I post this. The next highest game is Call of Duty with 5,327 players and the stats have been like this with Half-Life in the lead for a very long time now (before HL2 was announced). Also if you read any gaming magazines or go to alot of internet forums you will find that HL1 was still talked about and compared to other games long after it was released.

Heck it was Half-Life 1 that thousands of people voted for over at Gamespy when they held that vote to see what players thought was the best game of all time, and it was Half-Life that won, and that vote was done last year. So to say that Half-Life 1 was forgotten is extremelly ignorant indeed.

 

[Sars]

You're just not with it if you don't think Revenholm didn't fit into the story of the game. It showed the tyrannical nature of the combine by using Headcrabs to suppress certain parts of the world and force humans into slavery or into certain sections of the world. QUOTE]

I dont care how many pages this thread is, i have to say this. THE COMBINE DOESN'T CONTROL HEADCRABS!!!! If you do some research you will understand WHY headcrabs are there or in any area for that matter.
This is the third post i have read which has said this and im only 3 pages in....

Damn..half life newbs piss me off

 

[Spartan]

SoldCar4GasMony:

God almighty - you're STILL here? Geeze - you, Odysseus, and Spartan must either be masochists or incredibly stupid to be constantly posting on a game's fan site despite the fact that the 3 of clearly dislike the game immensely.

Maybe you should try getting a ****ing clue before you post.

 

[plebs]

Lots of unreasonable people posting crap on here Lets have reasoned arguments and consider we are all allowed our opinion!

HL2 was/is a very enjoyable game and one I will play over and over. However, I felt the story was non-existent most of the way through and unfortunately despite the possibilities with the physics it was extremely linear.

This linearity and story are coupled. We enter the station and think wow, look at all the things I can do. We think we can do a lot more than we can - well written introduction. But it soon becomes clear that it's as if we are still on the train - we can only do one thing to progress and its almost impossible to die. We then embark on a journey well out of our way because <insert plot device>. It's a fun journey, but when we get to the next stage we then have to embark on a journey well out of our way because <insert next plot device here>, then we get through there and we find that <insert plot device> and we have to head for somewhere else. We never really discover out anything ourselves or make any decisions. Now, this isn't too dissimilar to HL1, but really, if this game had "raised the bar" I would have anticipated much more self-discovery of the situation rather than having to react all the time to events. Even the eventual decision to get into the citadel is out of our hands, we don't even get to find a way in - dog does that for us. Finally the real story comes back and we have a highly cinematic ending and one that I loved.

Where this game succeeds is in the gameplay. Very exciting on the whole with some tremendous variety. Where it fails is maintaining immersion and empathy with the plight of city 17. I would compare the start and end to a great independent movie - a well directed fascinating immersive story, and the middle to good hollywood blockbuster - great entertainment but a flimsly plot to get you to the next action sequence.

 

[Sparta]

*cough* DEUS EX *cough*

good point

Half-Life AND Deus Ex tie for the Best FPS(s) Ever.

 

[Sparta]

Without MP and the way word is getting out about this game, it will be a forgotten.

Yes because its getting terrible reviews :dozey:

 

[Raz]

THE COMBINE DOESN'T CONTROL HEADCRABS!!!! If

Of course not, and they built those little missiles they come crashing down in themselves.

 

[fez]

i pity the fools who dont like HL2

love the way that ppl who dont like the game call ppl who love the game 'fanboys'. in england we call this, a load of old bollocks

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Without MP and the way word is getting out about this game, it will be a forgotten.

Let's just forget for a moment that the the reception for the game is resoundingly positive.
Ignore for a minute that it now has the very same MP you whined that it needed.

If you want the game to be "a forgotten", why do you keep talking about it?
Why don't you just let it slide into obscurity, if it's so bad. You shouldn't need to waste your time whining about a game that everyone will have "a forgotten."
What are you going to do? Go around reminding people that you helped make people "a forget" about Half-life 2?
Not only does that make your cause self-effacing, it makes you look fairly stupid too. That goes for everyone whining here.

I've played games that I think are crappy, but I'm not turning my life over to thier destruction.
I'm not going onto the Gungriffon Blaze fansite and spending countless hours bitching and moaning.
Because it's not worth it.
And if you think the game isn't worth it, why are you acting as though it is?

Essentially, if the game as resoundingly awful as you all say it is, then there's even less point to whining about it on an internet forum.
The very fact that you have to come here and try and desperately plead people into not buying it basically proves that the game is great.
Certainly greater than you, in any case. Definitely more persuasive and popular, regardless of it's content.

And guess what? Every post you made here is because of Half-life 2. Every single one. And, not only that, each of those posts is contrasted by a hundred, if not a thousand positive ones.

You just spent several days of your life in the service of a game you profess to hate. And, not only that, you're making it look better by being three people softly whining amid a tremendous crowd of people who are chatting happily.

I can't decide whether (in a strange reversal) a game has owned you, or if you've just wasted yourselves.

 

[Alix Mcdean]

And guess what? Every post you made here is because of Half-life 2. Every single one. And, not only that, each of those posts is contrasted by a hundred, if not a thousand positive ones.

You just spent several days of your life in the service of a game you profess to hate. And, not only that, you're making it look better by being three people softly whining amid a tremendous crowd of people who are chatting happily.

Pwned :thumbs:

-Alix

 

[Sharpfish]

Well some of us were waiting until we had got through the game to pack it away and never look back, others are waiting for the continual ****ed up patch releases to actually solve a lot of our issues, so we can then play it 100% as intended and maybe get a little bit more enjoyment out of it.. then pack it away and never look back. It is called wanting a return on your investment. If we paid for the same product we have as much right as you to discuss problems (and highlights) of the game. Once that game is finished (and I think for most people - 2 weeks is enough after purchase to finally give up on it with valves failed promises of fixes) then a lot of us will go away. I am on the last chapter, and my stuttering has returned. It had been fairly ok for the middle part of the game and I enjoyed a large portion of that time. I have kept my eye on all the threads (on various forums) for the latest tweaks/fixes/updates - and they appear to add problem on problem or just do not work for a lot of people. If it works for you then great. if you are 100% happy with the game then great. Do I tell you not to come post here?

"And, not only that, you're making it look better by being three people softly whining amid a tremendous crowd of people who are chatting happily."

HAHA, man you are living in your own world if you think that is the case, get out of the confines of hl2net forum where the fanaticism is strongest and you will see a hell of a lot of people who are not happy, not just a few.

Hint > Check steampowered forums firstly, 1 in 3 threads are about bugs, frustrations, and people pretty pissed at valve/vug right now. I haven't seen that many complaints (on such a scale) on any game forum in recent history. Obviously they have shifted loads of units which means there will be more posters, but also more readily shows how big a lot of the problems are. Problems that when combines == a shitty sub par experience for thousands of people who have paid the same cash as the happy users.

 

[Alix Mcdean]

Hint > Check steampowered forums firstly, 1 in 3 threads are about bugs, frustrations, and people pretty pissed at valve/vug right now. I haven't seen that many complaints (on such a scale) on any game forum in recent history.

Wait, you mean you never checked out the Far-Cry forums?
Perhaps the Star Wars Galaxies forums?
Gasp, Doom 3 forums?!
They all had LOADS of bug/glitch/gripe posts in them the first month or two.
Buddy, the game hasnt even been out a full month, of course there are going to be problems with the game. Its not the end of the world, they will get worked out.

-Alix

 

[Mechagodzilla]

"And, not only that, you're making it look better by being three people softly whining amid a tremendous crowd of people who are chatting happily."

HAHA, man you are living in your own world if you think that is the case, get out of the confines of hl2net forum where the fanaticism is strongest and you will see a hell of a lot of people who are not happy, not just a few.

AAHAHAHA

Actually, no.
I was talking about this forum, jackass. But I'm sure you knew that.
Halflife2.net is a crowd of people who are happy with the game. You call them fanatics. I call them people who are smarter than you. It's all relative.

Again, if you hate the game so much, why are you repeatedly going to this forum, the steam forums, and countless others?

Looks like you're living in your own world too. Our world.
Only, for whatever reason, it makes you very, very sad.
Boo-hoo.

Like I said: is the game owning your life, or did you waste it on your own?

 

[Raz]

HAHA, man you are living in your own world if you think that is the case, get out of the confines of hl2net forum where the fanaticism is strongest and you will see a hell of a lot of people who are not happy, not just a few.

Hint > Check steampowered forums firstly, 1 in 3 threads are about bugs, frustrations, and people pretty pissed at valve/vug right now. I haven't seen that many complaints (on such a scale) on any game forum in recent history. Obviously they have shifted loads of units which means there will be more posters, but also more readily shows how big a lot of the problems are. Problems that when combines == a shitty sub par experience for thousands of people who have paid the same cash as the happy users.

Vocal minority. I have the game. Works just fine, but I don't really feel the need to post a 'works fine!' thread. And there are thousands just like me.

A shitty sub-par experience? Its possible to not like this game, but to call it that? You were either expecting a completely different type of game or you just don't have a clue what makes a good shooter. Name an FPS that you think is better, besides HL1.

 

[Sharpfish]

"Name an FPS that you think is better, besides HL1."

No need, there have been countless posts on that. Why is HL2 just "better" seems to be something you guys can't put into words, yet we can state time and again WHY it is flawed where other games are not (ie they work how they should regardles of fun factor, gameplay). For the last time, the GAME of HL2 is great, it very probably has pushed the genre further than any other game from the angle of what it is TRYING to do. It has awesome "set pieces" and some great environments.

My problem is with everything that stands between YOU and that Greatness contained within the game. I wanted (still do) to get immersed in it, and have seen glimpses of genius within the game and would love more than anything to enjoy it the same way I can enjoy Tron2.0, System Shock2, Undying, UT, Doom3, Far Cry, Painkiller, GTAVC, Mafia etc. On some levels HL2 is farther up the evolutionary scale than any of those games, but it has so many bad aspects that either pull you out of the game, frustrate you, hamper the fun experience or just bug out. Those games I mentioned, yes they had complaints, yes they had patches - but none of them, for me, had so MANY issues all in one go to deter you from enjoying the game. Regardless of the "universal fact" that HL2 > * - If Valve would just release ONE decent patch that solved 50% of my problems I would be a lot happier - of course the experience is already soured and I am hardly likely to get that "new and excited" feeling back again, when they eventually get around to sorting all the problems completely.

And unfortunately only half of the problems ARE patchable. The other ones such as Loading times, Loading triggers, Scripted sequences, extremely strict linearity (far more than most of the above mentioned games) are all going to stay the way they are.

Now if you are happy with the strict dragging of your progression through the gameworld, which feels more like a showcase for physics that a solid game with it's stop-start feel then great. Some of us expect more in this day and age, and are a little bit older and wiser and not so readily wowed by a good but flawed game.

I just hope I am not discussing this point with children (i.e pre 18 y/o) because something I have recently found out is the younger people are lapping up Hl2 even with it's flaws because they just don't see the links between it and older games, it doesn't impress on so many levels that it is just an above average game (i.e its flaws balance out it's greatness - we can NOT ignore them)

Some people are more easily impressed and pleased than others. Tough ****ing shit.

 

[subtlesnake]

Really? The Hydra? The dock scene? People getting impaled by striders? The strider shooting that time altering beam at players? The bink of Eli's office is the only one that i remember making it.

The Hyrda was taken out, yes (it wasn't fun to fight), as well as the docks scene.

The "time altering beam" is still in there and Striders still impale people". The following parts of the 2003 video made it into the game:

Barricade:
Tunnels:
Coast:
Bugbait:

Of the rest, none of the gameplay was cut. Traptown became Ravenholm and the old Strider introduction was replaced with something much cooler. And of course, all of the E3 2004 video made it in.

 

[miked4o7]

No need, there have been countless posts on that. Why is HL2 just "better" seems to be something you guys can't put into words,

I could write a 10 page paper on why hl2 is better without pausing inbetween paragraphs... but why do that when one word alone suffices. "physics".

And unfortunately only half of the problems ARE patchable. The other ones such as Loading times, Loading triggers, Scripted sequences, extremely strict linearity (far more than most of the above mentioned games) are all going to stay the way they are.

1. Loading times and triggers. This is the game's only major flaw, if it can be called that. They are annoying, there's no doubt about it. Bad enough to completely ruin the game? Ridiculous.

2. Scripted sequences. This is a strength of hl, not a flaw. story-driven fps have used scripted sequences since hl1.... it's not a bad thing.

3. Linearity. Come on now... what do you think valve put together their game thinking "wow, I sure hope these levels turn out not to be linear", then when they were finished they kicked the ground, put their hands in their pockets, and said "awww, shucks... didn't work". The linearity of the game was a design decision that gives valve more control over the pacing of the game. I remember reading something Gabe Newell wrote where he said that a game is like a movie where the actor doesn't know the script. That statement is very telling of the philosophy of design that valve went with. They didn't go for a put-you-in-the-world-do-whatever-you-want kind of game like the gta or the elder scrolls... they went for making an action movie that you participate in and live out the action sequences... and it worked beautifully.

And also... You don't need to try to prove that people who love hl2 are younger, more inexperienced players in order to make your point about hl2 itself. If your points are valid, they'll stand on their own without any reference to the individuals that disagree with you.

 

[Sharpfish]

one last thing .. I have a hell of a lot of other things to do in my life than try and keep up with patch threads for the most problematic game I have played... ever - I am going to finish the last chapter tonight, uninstall (no point updating for more hassles) and just get the hell out of the HL2 world. You are correct, I guess there is no point in banging on about it anymore. I don't regret anything I have said - I got it off my chest, I have added to the count of people NOT happy and WANTING patches so that future games WILL progress and not wallow in the illusion that 100% of people are happy if you make a game pretty enough, or hype it enough.

Whethere anyone gives a shit or not, at the end of the day, is no concern of mine. I paid my money and I conversed in threads with OTHERS who were also having problems or thought the game was over rated.

So flame me all you like HL2 peeps because I am now going to delete my account here.. I will stick to other hl2 forums where there is a more tolerant balance of positives and negatives and leave you to your utopian, head in the sand, world.

I'm off to enjoy some games that know a thing or two about user friendliness

cue the "don't bump your head on the way out" and "goodbye, you will not be missed" replies.... YAWN.

> Other people who are not happy with the game, liberate yourselves, it's taken a week to get it out of my system and the words "HALF LIFE 2" now bring no enjoyment to me, just make me shiver and feel depressed.... just leave them to it - I don't begrudge anyone enjoying their purchased product, but I seriously must move on now.Maybe Do the same. Just keep reporting bugs on the official forums for those that want to see the game patched up to somewhere where it feels fun for more than an hour.

<edit>
and btw - Physics doesn't make a game the best game ever. The Whole game does. And the WHOLE of HL2 does NOT match up to the physics - which are a tech gimmick which you will tire of an be in every game soon. Which leaves the game underneath, which is average to good - hamepered by everthing else. Shame

 

[Raz]

"Name an FPS that you think is better, besides HL1."

No need, there have been countless posts on that.

Or you simply can't name one and tell us why you think its better.

Why is HL2 just "better" seems to be something you guys can't put into words,

You just did;

the GAME of HL2 is great, it very probably has pushed the genre further than any other game from the angle of what it is TRYING to do. It has awesome "set pieces" and some great environments.

but it has so many bad aspects that either pull you out of the game, frustrate you, hamper the fun experience or just bug out.

Like what? You've failed to name any bad aspects besides loading times, which are long or short depending on ones system. Scripted sequences? So instead of the cool scene with Dog at the beginning of Anticitizin One you would rather just have walked in there dispatching the Combine soldiers just as usual? Scripted scenes add some flavor to the game.

had so MANY issues all in one go to deter you from enjoying the game.

Again, what issues? I haven't seen a single bug and I've played through the game twice. The loading times are only long when I first load up the game and when I'm going to another chapter.

Now if you are happy with the strict dragging of your progression through the gameworld, which feels more like a showcase for physics that a solid game with it's stop-start feel then great. Some of us expect more in this day and age, and are a little bit older and wiser and not so readily wowed by a good but flawed game.

I can't imagine how you can dislike a strict progression through the game world and still manage to like Painkiller, Doom 3 or Undying, all of which are much, much more linear than HL2. Painkiller is the very epitome of an on rails shooter.

Some people are more easily impressed and pleased than others. Tough ****ing shit.

I guess game developers are gonna have a tough time impressing you if you think so little of HL2.

 

[subtlesnake]

Some people are more easily impressed and pleased than others. Tough ****ing shit.

It's not as simple as that. Linearity has been the staple of every FPS since HL. Only Far Cry manages to break away. Doom 3 is more linear than HL2, yet you are still able to appreciate it more. Scripted sequences are present in every FPS and HL2 uses them more imaginatively than most.

I can make exactly the same points about Doom 3. It was very linear, the gameplay wasn't particularly varied, there was little in the way of tactical combat and the level design was often repetitive. Perhaps I should say that everyone who liked Doom 3 and is under a certain age is not allowed to comment.

and btw - Physics doesn't make a game the best game ever. The Whole game does. And the WHOLE of HL2 does NOT match up to the physics - which are a tech gimmick

A tech gimmick? HL2 incorporates physics into the gameplay like no other game before. Using objects tactically as shields, returning grenades to their owner, turning cover against enemies (manipulator primary fire), building barricades, grabbing vital health packs when pinned down - the list goes on.

 

[pblse]

NIBully, you are absolutely right however this fansite is almost religious, you can't critise HL2 or Valve at all without getting severely flamed so it's useless.