HL2 : The Fighting MOD

L

Lu-Tze

Guest
HL2 : The Fighting MOD (Oh Do Kwan)

Gabe expressed an interest in people doing this for HL2, i've been thinking about the logistics of it the last few days.

If any teams are currently thinking of this project, please drop me a line and clue me in. I fnot then I guess i'll get a fair few people expressing an interest to join in here.

The main deal is how interactive models can be, I assume from Gabes interest in the matter that models can move to within touching distance of each other and break each others player boxes easily. I also assume that there is reasonable collision detection in place so that characters can fight properly.

Now, the important part. Models are the most vital part of this MOD. The actual programming part behind it should not be too difficult. Damage by area is already included AFAIK and collision detection should tie in nicely with this. The models however will each need a HUGE suite of animations to accompany them. Persoanlly I have had little experience in model making before, but as a martial arts afficionado I would like to think I would be able to correctly map moves from various styles onto a skeleton from a prebuilt model. My previous modding experience has been in levels and some code, and the levels is where i've been thinking of mostly.

The other problem will be throws and grapples. A staple part of any fighting game, will the HL2 engine be able to cope with models interacting so exactly? (If it can it will do so better than ever before, meaning no more annoying cliping in a fighting game)

Being able to swing people through pillars is obviously going to be available. Levels will fall to bits so easily it will be a shame not to include it. Apart from that small crowds could even be put in, allowing you to knock people through groups sending them scattering all over the place thanks to the lovely physics engine.

The only other thoughts I had was about how realistic to make the damage. Is it going to be worthwhile properly modelling the weight and speed of limbs to how much damage they do? Or is it going to be better just to stick with a simple kick animation and damage and then a response to getting hit that hard in that zone from the opposition?

Hopefully HL2 has a lot of built in physics to cater for being hit from various angles, ie. a slight prod, a knockback that causes a brief stagger, and how much force is required to completely topple someone or send them flying.

What i'm really looking for in a project team is either someone lacking in a decent mapper (or wanting someone willing to learn to animate for HL2) as well as maybe run me through some of the code behind it.

If however you feel you have these skills and would like to be part of this project, please get in contact with me so we can start sorting out a group of people ready to go in head first when the SDK is released.

Remember guys, even with OMF : Battlegrounds coming out, if we can make a good for HL2, it could become the dominant (and almost the only) fighting game for the PC.

Kweh?
 
Sounds great to me. I think it'd be awesome if someone can pull it off.
 
I am extremely into this idea. For my mod, the thing about living on the streets isn't just about living on the streets is that you don't always use weapons. So a big part is hand-2-hand combat which i believe you are talking about above. If this is what you are talking about maybe you would want to consider helping us out? my email is: [email protected]
 
"To win without fighting is best."
-Sun Tzu

So you can make the fighting game and we can fight without fighting!
 
It sounds like a really cool idea as long as it's not a Tekken/Mortal Combat/Street Fighter clone.

More like real Martial Artists, that's just my oppinion though.
 
I was just thinking about controls for this game, and I was wondering...

a) would this game be third person, or would you want to do something odd and make it first person?

b) If there will be weapons, will they be set weapons, or could you use objects like broken glass, shards of wood?

_________________________________

I was thinking the camera would be third person, following behind and slightly above the character instead of traditional fighting games' sidescroll. Standard WADS movement, left-click would be punch, right-click would be kick, shift plus either would be a throw, and to do combos you'd click the punch/kick/throw keys in a certain order, as well as using WADS.

Eh well, it's basically Oni's fighting system with a little added stuff.

so what do you think?
 
I was thinking of a basic structure similar to that of Tekken or DOA. No projectile attacks, just built around a basic Counter beats Strike, Throw beats Counter, Strike beats Throw. Each fighter would epitomise a particular "style" and of course many people will draw similarities to Tekken, being as they use a similar method. However it will not be a 'clone' game. All the characters will be new, even if they seem similar to those that are currently in games.

For example I was thinking of some of the following styles :-

Style (speciality)

Wu Shu (strike - aerial)
Capoeira (strike - low)
Tae Kwon Do (strike - kick)
Wrestling (throws)
Systema (counters)
Drunken Boxing (strike - variance)
Jeet Kune Do (all rounder)
Judo (throws)
Pa Qua (strike - circular movement)
Boxing (strike - fists)

I could go into depth about the different strengths and weaknesses and how each one looks and acts, but basically this represents a reasonable variation, with different characters excelling in different areas, but all having at least a couple of moves in Throws, Counters and Strikes.

Concerning weapons, I was thinking of a game without. No pick ups, no standard weapons. Although there may be one character who will strike with his briefcase *ahem* but hey if a model is already there why not use it?

As for the camera angle, I was thinking of your basic 3rd person perspective. The fact is we are making a fighting game, and much as you may want it to be different, familiarity makes for good pick up and play games. You can play any fighting game and instantly pick up a few basic gameplay traits, and probably play a reasonable game. If people can pick up this mod and instantly be familiar with the style of play it isn't going to alienate them and it wll have a bigger following.

I'm not here to reinvent the wheel, merely to supply cars to a whole new country :thumbs:

Additional level ideas I had had include a televised event, with cameras projecting the action from differetn angles onto big screens around the arena (ala the G-Man bit in the demo). And some scenarios which gave more than a nod to the original HL levels would be a nice inclusion. Say... a lab with Barneys cheering you on from behind glass and GMan looking on disapprovingly?

Anyway level design can be left until AFTER the MOD is under development. I think we need to get a brief team together to be ready to murder the SDK when it is released, see what is possible with the models, and then work out what kind of code changes we need to make to make the project viable. THEN we can look at arenas, models, styles, multi-levelled arenas etc.

It seems like there is a lot of interest though, so I will chuck up a website somewhere after a couple of weeks (i'm going on holiday soon) and then ill post another topic here so people can come and sign on to the team and voice their ideas.

Thanks for the feedback so far.
 
The best way to make it unlike a clone is to make it look different with a new art style. So do come kind of Cel Shading. Also make every character have a different fighting style. I think a Drunken Master style would be cool. So would Ju-Jitsu and of course Karate. I am a skinner and would join the team. I will think of a name for it. I think we should give it a quasi japanese feel. Like some anime influence to the characters. I also think we should do a singleplayer and have it play out like an RPG. The people can learn new moves in sp and such. Anyway I may join the team if we end up having a clearvision as to the art direction and what we are going to do. 3rd person from behind would kind of suck since you couldnt see the moves. Maybe make it have different camera angles for people to choose from. Multiplayer can include Duel, FFA, Or Team Mode. In FFA you could push a button to challenge someone. Also maybe have a Bushido mode where it is 1 v 1 with swords and stuff. This could be a good mod. I will join if you want.
 
sounds pritty cool, could be interesting...just DON'T include Bullet time....

could be fun, altough I imagine that it is from the 3rd person prespective, as from first perosn it'll be pritty hard to make the moves look realistic etc, and have a sense of collision...
 
Current working title is "Oh Do Kwan"

As a rough translation this means something like "Way of my way". Oh Do Kwan is used to refer to a person who fights in their own style, usually a combination of different bits of other styles worked together.

Some Anime influence would be nice, but not too much. Tekken is a prime example of anime influenced, but not dominated, characters. Naturally moves like throws and counters will have a prebuilt animation sequence so the camera can get up close and personal.

Also.... finishing moves? Moves that you can only use when the opponents life bar is below 10%, which of course are some of the most impressive. Or even Limit moves, which only work when you have less than 10% health but look good, are quick to execute and do solid damage?

And don't worry..... there wont be ANY bullet time. At all. Ever. Except in replays :D (Well HL2 is going to have great replay functions, why waste them?)

Apart from that... i'm not too sure about an SP mode. FInal FIght style? Nah. AI fighting bots? EEeeeek. Sounds like more trouble than it's worth? Rememebr the most popular mod for HL never shipped with Single Player mode or any AI to fight against.

One step at a time fellas, first things first, we will need models, moves, underlying code structure. Then we look at diversity of models and levels. Then we can start looking at Single Player modes and AI. Prob around about v5.0.
 
I would love some shaolin style kung-fu




precision and speed over strength.
 
IF YOU MAKE THE JEET KUNE DO GUY BRUCE LEE I WILL DROP EVERYTHING AND MARRY YOU (caps)
 
Originally posted by Draklyne
"To win without fighting is best."
-Sun Tzu

So you can make the fighting game and we can fight without fighting!

Sun Tzu is teh win :)
 
I was just thinking that "Way of Conflict" would be a cool title...
By the way, what language is that?

"To win without fighting is best. To disrupt alliances is next best. Next best is to foil your enemy. Next is triumph with armies. To besiege a fortification is worst."

I think that's how it goes anyway...

Question - How will you play a traditional side-scrolling fighter with a keyboard? - Question
 
Fair question... a sidescroller has entirely different controls to a beat em up. And the transition of the animation is likely to be anything but easy. The aim of this project is to create a multiplayer beat-em-up. This may get the inclusion of AI bots (either internally or externally to the project) and MAY get the side scrolling option. However as I just pointed out the controls for this would be VERY different.

For the normal beatemup itself I was thinking of standard fighting, and also very similar to standard HL controls... Towards, Away, Jump, Crouch, Circlestrafe Left, Circlestrafe Right. Having the option to move sideways as a continous direction rather than a one off double tap (ala most fighting games) would certainly help in trying to use the arenas more, both in attack and defence, plus would provide whole new freedom for moves and specialisation (obviously the Pa Qua dude makes most use of movements in this axis when attacking, whereas Boxing dude would use it only for dodging)

In case no-one guessed im back off holiday now and I should have a website up in a couple of days. Once that's up i'll see I can grab an IRC channel somewhere and start putting a proper team together.

I'm still desperately seeking modellers more than anything atm. Mostly because they can start making the model and skinning it now, and then work on the animations and such once we get hold of HL2 SDK and can start messing about with the physics and seeing what happens. Apart from that... for the moment the project is on hiatus pending further releases by Valve.

As for Bruce Lee.... I believe his imagery is copyrighted, so it can't be TOO realistic in full releases (*cough* extra skins *cough*) but most of the Jeet Kune Do moves will be worked out by watching movies like Enter the Dragon, The Big Boss and Fist of Fury very closely to try and get his style right for the movements.

Current estimated first alpha sucky demo release is around Christmas. This is based on numbers I have made up in my head and bear no reference to any knowledge or fact. It's just be nice to have some sort of structure by then that we could work on to make better models, animations and levels for.
 
hmm.. sounds interesting. we (corporations) are going for hand-2-hand combat after some major gameplay stuff. o_O I'm just thinking about a game mode... "Throw the dummy" kick a dummy as far as possible to score >_<
 
Problem with the Kick a dummy mode is you either either have it SSBM stylee and have the damage accumulate (ish) in a certain time period OR you have "sweet spots" where it does more damage and knockback. Even then one characters one move is always going to win the distance competition.

I'm trying to think of how to make stupid AI... it seems like it would be easier to make a perfect AI for such a game (ie. always blocks and counters perfectly) rather than one than is more "realistic" (ie. cocks up every now and again)....

Oh no wait i've just got it.

<THINK OF PERFECT WAY TO RESPOND>
<RANDOM NUMBER TO DECIDE IF IT DOES THE MOVE OR NOT>
<RANDOM NUMBER TO DECIDE HOW LONG IT WAITS BEFORE DOING THE MOVE>

Yeah that'd work....
 
Believe it or not, the code behind this sort of thing is actually very difficult, trust me. You're going to need one hell of a coder to pull this off.

-Angry Lawyer
 
Back
Top