HL2 vrs F.E.A.R

[[46] pushit [2]]

Glad to see I'm correct...in vague and untechnical terms, of course.

Earlier today I was playing both HL2 and CS:S and I noticed shadows...I'm sure they have always been there, I just never bothered to really notice them.



So, are those dynamic shadows or not? They did seem to react some to the light sources in the room. From what I can tell, it seems Source is definetely capable of Dynamic lighting/shadows, but doesn't take full advantage of it in HL2 due to it's drag on system resources.

(I know I may be dragging this out a bit, I just want to make sure I understand this stuff....pretty amazing stuff, what they can do with games these days.)

All I know is that HL2 looks absolutely beautiful graphic-wise. Dynamic lights or not...still looks great.

 

[giant384]

Glad to see I'm correct...in vague and untechnical terms, of course.

Earlier today I was playing both HL2 and CS:S and I noticed shadows...I'm sure they have always been there, I just never bothered to really notice them.



So, are those dynamic shadows or not? They did seem to react some to the light sources in the room. From what I can tell, it seems Source is definetely capable of Dynamic lighting/shadows, but doesn't take full advantage of it in HL2 due to it's drag on system resources.

(I know I may be dragging this out a bit, I just want to make sure I understand this stuff....pretty amazing stuff, what they can do with games these days.)

All I know is that HL2 looks absolutely beautiful graphic-wise. Dynamic lights or not...still looks great.

hl2 does not have dynamic lighting the shadows in hl2 only show with one light source and for ppl who have made maps the entity in called env_light i think if the lights move around the person or object the shadow will not move

 

[brightgreen]

I think we're in great hands with Monolith

F.E.A.R. will be a grand ol' game in the end

 

[Sanius]

Yes, half-life 2 does NOT have dynamic shadows. If the lights move, the shadows stay the same way.

Also, FEAR has a great graphics engine. Nothing makes me happier then going to the third group of enemies, throwing down two proxy mines, going slomo, watching the enemy dive into the proxymine, then having it blow up. Seriously, glass flies everywhere, dust, while it uses that great distortion effect. The tearing of limbs in the game also is very enjoyable.

I once used two proxymines, put them 5 inches apart, then an enemy dived head on and they explode when he was chest-up, I watched as his legs flew in the air and hit the wall to the left. I killed the enemies, then looked at him. BRUTAL. His legs were to the left of me, his arms and head were bunched up by a barrel, and his torso was laying there.

FEAR is a beatiful and fun game. I don't see whats so bad about it. Maybe if you're a girl who gets easily scared.

I have several good screenshots I would be willing to post, but I don't know where the game stores screenshots, if someone tells me, i'll be glad to post them (low textures, medium settings, high shadows and lighting, looks great).

 

[Jintor]

Care factor: Zero.

Seriously, it doesn't matter whether FEAR or HL2 is better. They're both awesome games. Maybe different graphics, maybe different stories, maybe different systems.

Still games.

Awesome ones.

 

[JCampbell]

hl2 does not have dynamic lighting the shadows in hl2 only show with one light source and for ppl who have made maps the entity in called env_light i think if the lights move around the person or object the shadow will not move

You're wrong. HL2 does have dynamic lighting. Do a google search with the specific terms and you will find a demo map made to support this theory.

 

[Pibborando San]

Ok. I can see there's a LOT of argument in this thread about whether Source has dynamic lighting, shadows, what not. The thing is, it DOES have dynamic lighting, meaning light sources that can be moved around in the 4th dimention (time), and it DOES have dynamic shadowing capabilities, but it's not what you're thinking.

In games like Doom 3, and now F.E.A.R., the engine uses what is called "Per-Pixel Lighting" which means for every pixel on your screen, the engine calculates whether it is in the light, or in shadow, and you get a global, truely dynamic lighting and shadowing effect.

What I mean by Source having dynamic shadowing capabilities is that even though the shadows are shadow maps, and not generated dynamicly, they can still be told to move around, based on a fixed light source. I mean, even the Unreal 2.0 engine has this ability. Someone made a mod for UT2004 that could create light sources that cast dynamic shadows on players. It was quite convincing for somewhat outdated technology, but it was still using shadow maps and not per-pixel.

With per-pixel lighting, characters cast shadows on everything around them, and even on themselves, so it is really the future for all game engines.

Anyway, back on topic. I have played the F.E.A.R. demo, and I am pretty excited for the release. The engine is capable of amazing things, although it does need to be optimised. The enemy AI is great, and provides a lot of replayabilty because of how they react to each fight. The scares really scared me, and Doom 3 didn't really do it for me a year ago, so I'm glad a good horror FPS is comming out.

I got a little geeky and even made some videos of gameplay from the demo. If you want to check out why I liked this demo so much, go ahead and watch them.

Demo Run-Through - http://picapic.net/media/QJN5ZQ3 50.8 MB

Combat Tips - http://picapic.net/media/MF6X2M3 48.5 MB

Playing on Extreme difficulty - http://picapic.net/media/9BCJ9X5 12.9 MB

Hope that resolved... something.

Edit: I also loved how you can see your arms and legs and your body casts shadows. I was even freaked out when I walked around a corner and saw something move, only to realise it was my shadow. The feeling of really being in first person when your using melee moves like the flying kick is awesome too.

 

[HadouKen24]

FEAR's gameplay seems deeper to me, based on the demo. You die quicker, have to aim a lot more carefully, and have to contend with much more versatile foes. Seems to be a lot harder. It has better deaths and gun animations.

That doesn't mean it's a better game, but I think it's going to be a little more interesting to play through.

A lot creepier, too. I <3 supernatural horror.

 

[MetalliMyers]

I played the F.E.A.R. Demo last night, and it is one of those games where everything has that plastic look to it.

I don't much like that. I think one of the reasons I like Half-Life 2 so much is that is has that gritty & shiny feel to it.

 

[_-_-SELAS-_-_]

I thought FEAR demo was pretty nice, the erason for me that the gfx sucked, was that my machine wasnt fast enough (9800pro/1gig/2.5ghz).

Anyway the only thing I noticed was really bad, is the sounds, when u shot the two normal guns sounded really lame IMO. Sry 4 bad engrish Im a bit tired...

 

[iMMuNiTy]

I liked F.E.A.R. because of:

- AI. They melee back 'nades at ya, dive through windows, jump through a fence or a wall, crawl from under a low object and all that not only to surprise you off guard, but to escape your gunfire as well. Also, they act like a squad. Commands are engaged in real-time now; if you camp, they surround you if possible, if not - they throw a grenade at you to flush you out, - furthermore, they get into position to wait for you to escape the explosion and open fire once you do. The best part is, IMO, is that they comment every event, both enemy and ally wise. We got two men down!, We got one man down!, He took out the heavy!, Squad, keep close!, Split up and surround him!, Die, motherf-er! and so on and so forth.
- Gameplay. You can carry only up to 3 weapons, your health drops madly, and your enemies aren't weak and dumb at all. What's more, the enemies may fall or flinch if severely hurt, and through all the dust and smoke during a firefight, you can't always make out of it whether he's dead or not. I died the first time just because the "corpse" crawled away, and shot me from the back. I love challenging games. Also, I think this goes to gameplay as well, I enjoyed the way developers use to scare the players. Shadows, a man appearing right in front of you and then suddenly vapourizing, security cams, quick and short ambient sounds...

What I disliked about F.E.A.R.:
- Scripted sequence would interfere with AI. I shot a few rounds just to mess around, and then continued on to the "Echo 12..." area. The enemies knew I was there, but the scripted sequence ignored that. and they said that no targets were in sight. Pretty dumb mistake, if you ask me.
- Minor mistakes. I now understand why F.E.A.R. is delayed. They're rushing too much. If you shoot the glass of a window the glass shards hurle indoors, though they should go outdoors. Also, massive bulletholes appear in the walls even after a 9mm handgun.
- Storyline. The storyline is a bit dull, from what I've seen in in-game footage, trailers and demo of the game.
- Particle effects. Smoke, dust and blood clouds - they all look low quality even on max settings.

 

[giant384]

You're wrong. HL2 does have dynamic lighting. Do a google search with the specific terms and you will find a demo map made to support this theory.

sorry lol i meant for it to be dynamic shadows

 

[Pibborando San]

I thought FEAR demo was pretty nice, the erason for me that the gfx sucked, was that my machine wasnt fast enough (9800pro/1gig/2.5ghz).

Anyway the only thing I noticed was really bad, is the sounds, when u shot the two normal guns sounded really lame IMO. Sry 4 bad engrish Im a bit tired...

I'm running the same system, except for a Athlon XP 2800+, and if you have the 128MB version, I have the 256MB 9800Pro. Anyway, I was able to turn up most of the settings to Maximum, except no soft shadows (BAD BAD!!) and 4xAF with no AA at 1024x768, and get around 40 - 60 fps normally, and maybe drop down to 20 - 30 in big firefights. I know turning textures down to medium can help, but I have a gig of RAM and a 256MB gfx card, so it didn't stutter that much.

 

[[46] pushit [2]]

Care factor: Zero.

Seriously, it doesn't matter whether FEAR or HL2 is better. They're both awesome games. Maybe different graphics, maybe different stories, maybe different systems.

Still games.

Awesome ones.

Agreed, I loved the demo of F.E.A.R. Great graphics, good action and some good scares. Enemy A.I seems to be up there, I loved replaying different parts of the demo just to see how they could react. Looking forward to the full game.

 

[[46] pushit [2]]

I played the F.E.A.R. Demo last night, and it is one of those games where everything has that plastic look to it.

I don't much like that. I think one of the reasons I like Half-Life 2 so much is that is has that gritty & shiny feel to it.

Nice job. You worded what I was trying to say perfectly. It has a bit of a "plastic-like" feel that, to me, feels cartoonish.

Other than that, I liked the game.

 

[Pibborando San]

As far as the "plasticy look" that's just because of normal mapping, and the developers not realising that they also need some good shaders on there too to make it look realistic. I thought in the first "interactive" part, where you're being briefed, the character's faces looked pretty realistic, and not nearly as bad as in Doom 3.
Although, next-gen engines like UE3 will have "subsurface scattering" shaders to REALLY make the character's skin look like skin.

 

[iMMuNiTy]

About Unreal 3 and faces...

Half-Life 2 character faces:

DooM 3 faces:

F.E.A.R. faces:

Unreal 3 engine faces:

I think the winner is obvious. Or do I have to announce it myself?

 

[[46] pushit [2]]

I'd say HL2. The features on the face are extremely detailed.

 

[[46] pushit [2]]

Pibborando, thanks for explaining a little more about Dyanmic lighting. Now, when I first heard about Source one of the biggest points was that it was very upgradeable. VALVe would not need to create a new engine for HL3 because they could use Source...and, in theory, could for any game coming out in the next decade or so. I don't know if "upgradeable" is the right word, but I think you get my point.

NOTE: this is not some graphics-war between HL2 and F.E.A.R, I like the feel of HL2 overall, but have just been learning about this whole dynamic number. I'm just interested to see if Source engine has the capability.

 

[Pibborando San]

Well, it doesn't have Per-Pixel lighting and shadowing, which is really the only thing holding it back from being a great "next gen" engine. I mean they did port HL2 to the Xbox. If they can somehow "upgrade" the engine with features like that, then HL3 could still look amazing on Source.

And about the faces, atleast to me, the Unreal 3 stuff is obviously the most realistic. And that's not just personal preference. It's all about the technology. Not only does UE3 have normal and bump mapping, but also paralax mapping, and subsurface scattering technology to make it look like the skin is translucent, like in real life.

 

[Trendkill]

Nice videos Pibborando.

I realy like fear, awesome ai, fun game all round, and that little girl is scary...

 

[DarkDamo]

i dont see why someone would compare fear to hl2 on a hl2 board, its obvious that the fan boys are going to defend their game, and flame the people who have a brain in their head

i saw in an interview that F.E.A.R was not designed to use super high models. i LOVE hl2, ive played it 3 or so times, great game you know. but i also like fear, the ai, the slo-mo, the melee.

half-life 2 is a very different game, it is nearlly impossible to compare it to fear, hl2 is verystory driven, while fear not as much so [but there is a story line in there]. fear is a phsylogical horror game, not cheap scares like doom3 etc.

they are both VERY different games and you are not going to comp to a conclusion about what game is better. Half-Life2 was GOTY in 2003 [or was it 4?], F.E.A.R is going to be GOTY 2005 [imo]. both great games, why do you need to compare things all the time.

 

[Diplexer]

well not many ppl here are defending HL2 and flaming ppp who like F.E.A.R, are they, so u just never no till u ask....

Graphic wise, u can compare them and yes I think F.E.A.R does look cartoon like...Hl2 is so real looking...

Hl2 faces are the best out of all that games yet no question ........

 

[Pibborando San]

Ok, I'm sorry, but I fail to see how that G-Man face looks more detailed/realistic than the UE3 face.

That is almost PHOTO realistic, by far the most realistic faces I've ever seen.

Also

I'm not an Unreal fan-boy at all, I'm just stating that I have eyes that work.

Edit: Sorry, got off topic.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

and if your eyes worked that well, then you'd have read that there are no current games that use UE3 (or, indeed, any this year)

 

[iMMuNiTy]

But since this year is coming to and end, and next year we're having Unreal Torunament 2007....

Back on topic, though.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

But since this year is coming to and end, and next year we're having Unreal Torunament 2007....

Back on topic, though.

That doesn't alter the truth of my statement.

 

[iMMuNiTy]

That doesn't alter the truth of my statement.

I'm not the one to argue, but next year, which is rather soon, we're having an UE3 engine powered game. Not that much of a wait. So I think it's about time to think about PC upgrades before it's too late and, of course, discuss how will it stand out in the crowd. In appropriate forums and/or their sections. :upstare:

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Ye-es, very good...

Hl2 faces are the best out of all that games yet no question ........

Ok, I'm sorry, but I fail to see how that G-Man face looks more detailed/realistic than the UE3 face

there are no current games that use UE3 (or, indeed, any this year)

So yes, we know that UT2007 is out next year, and upgrades will be necessary, but the point was that HL2 has the best character faces now out of any current engine. UE3 is not a current engine.

 

[iMMuNiTy]

So yes, we know that UT2007 is out next year, and upgrades will be necessary, but the point was that HL2 has the best character faces now out of any current engine. UE3 is not a current engine.

Yes, on that I fully agree.

May we return to topic, now?

 

[Sparta]

I think both games look great, and play great. I'll have to play the full version of F.E.A.R before i judge any further because otherwise its just unfair.

F.E.A.R could easily be better, or worse than HL2. No one here knows how it will pan out so stop making these judgements already.

 

[Foebane]

I think Doom 3 has the best faces out there, with just as much detail as the HL2 faces, with the added bonus of dynamic lighting and shadowing. The G-Man's face just looks so flat, like all the other HL2 faces. The D3 marine just looks so handsome in that pic! :upstare:

As for future tech, the F.E.A.R. face looked AWFUL - it was the eyes that really destroyed it for me, they stand out so much, no blending with the rest of the face.

Unreal 3 will beat everyone else hands down once it comes out. That old man's face was impressive enough, and as for the black guy - WOW!

 

[Noobulon]

With respect to faces, I think the quality of the facial animation is every bit as important as the rendering. A character with amazing shaders and detail will not look real, if they move like there's only five muscles in their face. In this respect I think HL2 surpasses the other efforts I've seen - on max settings, the expressions on characters like Alyx are hugely subtle. This makes them seem lifelike despite slightly 'flat' rendering.

Clearly UE3 is going to raise the bar once again.

 

[iMMuNiTy]

I think Doom 3 has the best faces out there, with just as much detail as the HL2 faces, with the added bonus of dynamic lighting and shadowing. The G-Man's face just looks so flat, like all the other HL2 faces. The D3 marine just looks so handsome in that pic! :upstare:

Technically, DooM 3 faces amongst today games' faces look one of the worst. It is DooM 3 which are dramatically flat, not to mention the ugly low-polygon count. Half-Life 2 faces use shaders which have been used in movies, they have 40 face muscles which truly give out expressions of a person. And voice acting only adds up sweetness to Half-Life 2 faces. If you call this flat, I consider you blind -

http:// www.h l 2 . r u / s h o w p i c / ? / g a l l e r y / t h e - l o s t - c o a s t / i m a g e s / h l 2 . r u - l o s t c o a s t - 0 7 .jpg

If Valve would suck up every graphical feature, every possibility of Source, then only Alienware would be able to run it smoothly! Hence that enemies and non-plot related NPCs have only two separate fingers, and they are lower quality. Even plot-related NPCs aren't full quality; remember that G-Man has two models? One "low", and one high. I quotated low because that's the quality every other model is at.

I think you'd be more correct saying "I like DooM 3 faces the most". Because technically D3 faces suck.

In my opinion, HL2 faces>F.E.A.R. faces>DooM 3 faces. And of course, UE3 tops them all.

P.S. Sorry for the flame but I get so wound up in DooM 3 vs. Half-Life 2 discussions.

 

[Cyber$nake]

So yes, we know that UT2007 is out next year, and upgrades will be necessary, but the point was that HL2 has the best character faces now out of any current engine. UE3 is not a current engine.

But there are developers with working alphas of games running it...so it IS being used right now, the games just arent finished. the UT2007 and Gears of War videos didnt just pop out of a magic hat.

At the same time, HL2 and Doom 3 have been out for a while and back then UE3 might have not been in use, therefor we can only compare f.e.a.r. to UE3.

 

[X-FacToR]

"FEAR" 10 minutes into the single player demo and I uninstalled it, the multiplayer is extremely worse. Ive had more fun watching the brady bunch.

 

[iMMuNiTy]

And UE3 brutally pwns F.E.A.R.

 

[SupaKoopa]

Ok, I'm sorry, but I fail to see how that G-Man face looks more detailed/realistic than the UE3 face.

That is almost PHOTO realistic, by far the most realistic faces I've ever seen.

Also

I'm not an Unreal fan-boy at all, I'm just stating that I have eyes that work.

Edit: Sorry, got off topic.

 

[The Bait]

"FEAR" 10 minutes into the single player demo and I uninstalled it, the multiplayer is extremely worse. Ive had more fun watching the brady bunch.

Of course the multiplayer sucked. It was beta.