HOLY ****ING SHIT ROK Frigate blows up and sinks, North Korean torpedos suspected

You know numbers.....they never did find all those invasion tunnels......





:thumbs:
 
15357 said:
Possibly they hadn't anticipated that they would actually sink a ship, perhaps damage it, and say that they were returning fire after our ships attacked first. But then the ship actually did sink, and 40+ people are presumed dead, they thought 'oh shit, this wasn't part of the plan'.

Also, some speculate that the "flock of birds" wasn't really a flock of birds, because the navy never used 76mm cannons to fire warning shots at unidentified targets. 20mm Vulcans, yes, but never higher caliber rounds that can seriously destroy a ship. Proper identification comes before the kill order.

Seriously, the North Koreans never act logically, at least to what we believe is logic. Their strategy of survival is to keep the heat on, so that the US, Korea, and her allies will keep making concessions, because all the parties involved do not want a war. Whatever twisted logic they came up with to manage that strategy of survival, we may never know.

The survival of the regime is more important than human lives, to them.
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funny how it's the other side that's incompetant when all explanations point to SK incompetance



Numbers said:
The survival of the regime is more important than human lives, to them
Click to expand...

to them being the people who risk their lives. this is exactly what keeps SK from ever rectifying it's relationship to the north. hearing you speak it sounds as if north Koreans are so far far removed from SK culturally when you're the same people who've been separated by poltical will for over 50 years. I guess dehumanising the enemy is part of the strategy to perpetual conflict

you'll respond with "it's them, not us"
 
15357 said:
Korean war mines are kinda plausible, but then those must been some hardy mines, because after 60 years, their fuse is still active, and the Composition B inside hasn't even deteriorated.
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Either way South Korean military has been mobilised. I predict

1. Much fanfare will be made about how South Korean military has been deployed

2. Both sided wait anxiously on how the other side will react

3. Return to status quo.
 
CptStern said:
funny how it's the other side that's incompetant when all explanations point to SK incompetance





to them being the people who risk their lives. this is exactly what keeps SK from ever rectifying it's relationship to the north. hearing you speak it sounds as if north Koreans are so far far removed from SK culturally when you're the same people who've been separated by poltical will for over 50 years. I guess dehumanising the enemy is part of the strategy to perpetual conflict

you'll respond with "it's them, not us"
Click to expand...

Of course. The enemy must not seem human, in order for us to maintain the political national will to engage and defeat the enemy, perpetuate the armed forces and the conscription of young men, and continue on with the development of new weapons that will kill as many as possible with as few collateral damage as possible, thereby protecting the future of the free world, and ensuring that Communism does not eat away at the great society we have worked hard to maintain. If the enemy seems human, we sympathize with them. Dehumanizing an enemy has never been easier, considering the things that the North actually does.

And I'll note that you still haven't answered my question.

Shyam said:
Either way South Korean military has been mobilised. I predict

1. Much fanfare will be made about how South Korean military has been deployed

2. Both sided wait anxiously on how the other side will react

3. Return to status quo.
Click to expand...

Yeah, me too.

If I were president, you'd see pyongyang being bombarded with all the bombs we have on the southern side of the peninsula. With US support.
 
I think it's perhaps acceptable to dehumanise some North Koreans as to an extent, the states already done that with it's brain washing.

In 1984, when Winston Smith is joining the resistance and they ask him if he would be willing to throw acid in the face of a child, or blow up a load of people, would he do it and he says yes. Given the situation of just how evil the state and society was, I myself had no opposition to Winston's willingness to do whatever it takes to take down such an evil.

I have similar feelings with regards to North Korea, I don't think a lot of the North Korean people have been allowed to become fully human, becuase of the society in which they've grown up. The North Korean system is absolutely anti-human and is everything I stand against.
 
Well there's a good example of how psychological dehumanization of the 'enemy' works, kids. Justify murder in these easy steps.

Anyways, the North Korean leaders are just doing what anyone else who understood their situation in relation to game theory would do. And doing a damn good job of it too.

How many people here really think NK leadership is bat shit crazy? *does not raise hand*
 
MFL said:
Well there's a good example of how psychological dehumanization of the 'enemy' works, kids. Justify murder in these easy steps.

Anyways, the North Korean leaders are just doing what anyone else who understood their situation in relation to game theory would do. And doing a damn good job of it too.

How many people here really think NK leadership is bat shit crazy? *does not raise hand*
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The president of the country is a dead man. Totalitarian countries are always run irrationally and inevitably run themselves into the ground.
 
Solaris said:
I think it's perhaps acceptable to dehumanise some North Koreans as to an extent, the states already done that with it's brain washing.

In 1984, when Winston Smith is joining the resistance and they ask him if he would be willing to throw acid in the face of a child, or blow up a load of people, would he do it and he says yes. Given the situation of just how evil the state and society was, I myself had no opposition to Winston's willingness to do whatever it takes to take down such an evil.
Click to expand...

the test is idiotic. how would throwing acid in the face of an innocent child have anythign to do with overthrowing the government. the test is just asking you to be a mindless drone who wont think about their actions and the consequences of their actioons. the very first thing I'd do as a leader is put a bullet in their head as they're a danger to all those around them


Solaris said:
I have similar feelings with regards to North Korea, I don't think a lot of the North Korean people have been allowed to become fully human, becuase of the society in which they've grown up. The North Korean system is absolutely anti-human and is everything I stand against.
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this is crazy talk. you'r suggesting north koreans are less human than other humans? you're stereotyping an entire population based on what you've seen in anti-NK media. I'm sure there's plenty of NK who desparately hate their government
 
CptStern said:
the test is idiotic. how would throwing acid in the face of an innocent child have anythign to do with overthrowing the government. the test is just asking you to be a mindless drone who wont think about their actions and the consequences of their actioons. the very first thing I'd do as a leader is put a bullet in their head as they're a danger to all those around them
Click to expand...
See I got a completely different message from that test. The 'party' had destroyed humanity to the point where it where the lives of other party members and brainwashed children became worthless to the opponent of the system.

this is crazy talk. you'r suggesting north koreans are less human than other humans? you're stereotyping an entire population based on what you've seen in anti-NK media. I'm sure there's plenty of NK who desparately hate their government
Click to expand...
I'm sure there are too, many of them will no doubt be found in NK's elaborate concentration camp system.
 
Solaris said:
See I got a completely different message from that test. The 'party' had destroyed humanity to the point where it where the lives of other party members and brainwashed children became worthless to the opponent of the system.
Click to expand...

what? I dont understand any of what you're saying


Solaris said:
I'm sure there are too, many of them will no doubt be found in NK's elaborate concentration camp system.
Click to expand...

bet there's a hell a lot more who are not imprisoned. few people would think living in abject misery is worth putting up with the dear leader. they just dont act out on their beliefs.
 
CptStern said:
what? I dont understand any of what you're saying




bet there's a hell a lot more who are not imprisoned. few people would think living in abject misery is worth putting up with the dear leader. they just dont act out on their beliefs.
Click to expand...

To be honest I'm not sure what I'm saying so I'm going to stop saying it.

Also, I hope you're right on the second part.
 
What the he'll ? Is confused about solaris's ideology. I swear I saw him support the Iraq invasion meanwhile condemning the Afghan occupation.
 
Yeah.

I'm disappointed though. It looks like it's too late to launch a cruise missile in retaliation. Show them who's boss, you see. :/

If I had my way, I'd be launching a missile for each of the sailors killed in action. All 45 of them.
 
Man you guys pussied out...just like Britain did when Iran took the Sailors hostage...shame
 
15357 said:
Yeah.

I'm disappointed though. It looks like it's too late to launch a cruise missile in retaliation. Show them who's boss, you see. :/

If I had my way, I'd be launching a missile for each of the sailors killed in action. All 45 of them.
Click to expand...

How many North Korean artillery pieces are there in range of the ten and a half million people Seoul again?
 
15357 said:
Not enough to stop me.
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Ah yes, excellent strategic planning - launching a limited strike against North Korea, giving them a wonderful excuse to decimate the largest, most economically important city in South Korea.

And thats just if the retaliation is limited to Seoul - if one factors in the other cities close to the border, well, the effect on the South Korean population and economy don't bare thinking about.

Of course, this is just with conventional artillery, factor in KPAF air power and NK's missile forces and a retaliation strike would be uttery devestating and able to hit anywhere in the peninsula. Tens, maybe hundreds of thousands dead in just a few minutes of fighting with conventional weapons. Won't that be nice?
 
Actually, I'm thinking that since our artillery near-matches the north in terms of numbers, and the quality certainly exceeds theirs, and also with our heavy ELINT and anti-artillery radar presence in the area, coupled with our extremely superior air power, would decimate the NK artillery before they got more than a few shots in. That leaves their FROGs and SCUDs to fire at our targets, but they are inaccurate enough to be limited to civilian targets - giving our own ground troops and air support enough time to secure most north korean firing positions. Also, PAC-2s will be able to block at least a few of those ballistic missiles coming our way. Within an hour of engagement, with the element of surprise, it is entirely possible that we could have eliminated the enemy high command with cruise missiles and precision air strikes, and rid the enemy of higher-echelon military organization. Which would give us ample time to pick off the artillery sites, one by one.

Even with unconventional weapons, I'd say that civilian casualties will not exceed a mere 150,000 in the total course of a war. Personally, I do not see it exceeding 50,000.

But you're right; no sense in a limited strike: we need to pour everything we have at targets that directly threaten our strategic areas and our most valuable resource: manpower. I personally do not want to engage until we get those shipments of Patriot Advanced Capability 3s from the US.

But of course, you see, we would already have them if I were president.
 
Numbers is ok with other people dying for his country. you should put your mouth where your money is and stop being an armchair warrior and actuallly do somethign about it. I expect your next post to be from the front lines.
 
CptStern said:
Numbers is ok with other people dying for his country. you should put your mouth where your money is and stop being an armchair warrior and actuallly do somethign about it. I expect your next post to be from the front lines.
Click to expand...

Don't worry, my conscription is coming up; I've already done the physicals.

Besides, I am thinking of going frontline infantry or Mechanized Infantry after I sign up for ROTC and graduate university as an officer. Failing that, Army Security Command.
 
you people are already dead and you dont even know it. NK is just biding their time, waiting for the release of Starcraft 2 and then BAM!!! NK invades and takes over SK in one fell swoop. you really didnt think Kim long dong Ill was depriving their citizens of technology without a reason did you? it's all part of North Korea/Blizzards master plan

The Joint Operations Republic of the Koreas has a nice ring to it herr Numbers
 
15357 said:
Actually, I'm thinking that since our artillery near-matches the north in terms of numbers, and the quality certainly exceeds theirs, and also with our heavy ELINT and anti-artillery radar presence in the area, coupled with our extremely superior air power, would decimate the NK artillery before they got more than a few shots in.
Click to expand...

A few salvoes is all they need - cities like Seoul and Incheon are exceedinly tightly packed - a few salvoes from God knows how many artillery pieces would kill a huge number of people in just a few minutes. Add to that the economic damage done - after all, a hell of alot of the SK economy is centred on Seoul.

Now, if I were a North Korean general I wouldn't be planning on winning the war - I'm in no doubt that combined SK and US forces would kick NK's tail to the Yalu in the end - what I'd be planning on is causing maximum damage to the victors, going out with a bang as it were. Launch everything - every missile, rocket, artillery shell and aircraft as rapidly as possible and smash as much of SK's economic infrastructure as one can. No sense in leaving big, obvious targets lying around doing nothing (especially if you've got a big, brainwashed army more than willing to die for the homeland), they'll only get blown up.

Make the cost of victory, in both blood and treasure, far too high to justify. Now do that and SK would have a problem sorting themselves out, with a reunified Korean peninsula and all the development that NK will need, well, that could very well stretch the Korean economy to breaking point and cause a major intnernational economic crisis. Its not victory, but its pretty good revenge.

Within an hour of engagement, with the element of surprise, it is entirely possible that we could have eliminated the enemy high command with cruise missiles and precision air strikes, and rid the enemy of higher-echelon military organization. Which would give us ample time to pick off the artillery sites, one by one.
Click to expand...

Your plan isn't a massive offensive airstrike though. You want to launch 46 missiles at NK. Sounds pretty limited (and therefore asking for NK to retaliate with an even larger counter strike) to me.

Which would give us ample time to pick off the artillery sites, one by one
Click to expand...

You don't have time - those artillery sites have fixed targets (or at least some form of standing order on targeting an area if no orders are recieved). In Seoul and the other cities in the north the streets are choked with traffic - millions of scared civilians legging it south as fast as possible, all getting in each other's way and bringing all transport links to a grinding halt. Meanwhile you've got SK and US forces attempting to move north - on those same roads, which are now full of civilians. Result - utter chaos. Civilians out in the open, horribly vulnerable to any form of attack. Transport network paralized, civilians can't get out of the combat area, more troops can't get in.

All that means casulaties. lots and lots of casualties.

Then you've got to deal with displaced people, which will mean even more strain on the budget and more than likley, more dead people.

But you're right; no sense in a limited strike
Click to expand...

Then why on earth did you just reccomend one?
 
Their government is not going to retaliate at all? Remind me never to serve in the SK military. :p
 
Well, at least they're doing something now...

South Korea suspends trade with N. Korea
By the CNN Wire Staff
May 23, 2010 10:12 p.m. EDT

Seoul, South Korea (CNN) -- South Korean President Lee Myung-bak announced Monday his country is suspending trade with North Korea and closing waters to the North's ships after a report concluded North Korea sank a South Korean warship in March.

In the past, Lee said that the South had "endured attacks from North Korea only because we are looking for peace on the Korean peninsula. But now it's going to be changed."

In a nationally televised speech, Lee called on the North to apologize for the alleged attack and for the country to punish those responsible for carrying it out.

South Korean military officials on Thursday announced the results of an official investigation into the sinking of the ship, the Cheonan, which concluded that North Korea fired a torpedo that cut the vessel in half.

North Korea has denied sinking the warship, which went down on March 26, killing 46 sailors.

The announcement came as the U.N. Command investigates whether the sinking violated the armistice between the two nations.

The United Nations Command said Friday it is convening a "special investigations team" from 11 countries will "review the findings" of an investigation into the incident and "determine the scope of the armistice violation."
 
Sounds like a reason to go to war, not suspend trade. Oh well, I have a feeling North Korea would have won anyways. Not to mention that would have made a big mess in the world.
 
Apparently SK's big cities are in range of their missiles. Dumb spot for a city. Should get them force field generators up.
 
OmegaX said:
Sounds like a reason to go to war, not suspend trade. Oh well, I have a feeling North Korea would have won anyways. Not to mention that would have made a big mess in the world.
Click to expand...

We would have won in a matter of months, but it's the collateral we're worried about. How many lives is worth victory? Economically speaking, of course.
 
15357, a bit off topic, but

seoulpodcast.com

Podcast by english teachers in Korea, talking about food, drinking, teaching, politics, weather, or whatever is on their mind.

Very entertaining.

I listen to it while playing TF2, very very fun.
 
Oh wow, haven't seen Some_god post in a while, you know, you may have to change your sig, we're comrades now.
 
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