HomeLAN Take on Valve Source Theft

[rec]

Somewhat like the article mentioned in our previous news item, HomeLAN too has published a detailed article in relation to Valve's recent security issues and the theft of their software. Their article, entitled "Turning The Valve Off: Effects Of The Half-Life 2 Source Theft" includes a number of interesting discussion points and a range of opinions from fellow software developers. Here's some of what Irrational Games' Ken Livine had to say...

I don't condone but can understand ripping off a game...I can't understand why somebody would do this. Like everyone else in the world, I expected HL2 to be the game of year. In the normal course of events the game would have shipped in the next couple of months and Valve would have gone to work, as they always have, improving and supporting their product. Now they get to spend the next six months doing damage control.

Once again, this is an interesting, well compiled article. I suggest you all head over and have a read.

 

[logi]

Hmm. seems to be a nice article *starts reading*

 

[bailliere]

Wow - they had to compile the article too!? Geez, some computer geeks write everything in C++.

 

[Tomofv]

Originally posted by bailliere
Wow - they had to compile the article too!? Geez, some computer geeks write everything in C++.

Compile = put together.

 

[Feedbag]

damage control my ass. they weren't near completion of the game, so they had to delay. now, because of their lax security, they need to rewrite more code. do you leave the door open to your house at night if you live in the city? thats what Valve did.

Also, I really wish everyone would quit with the rear-end kissing fest that has gone on here for the last month. Boo hoo, Valve had their code stolen. Every friggin game ever released has been pirated to some extent. What makes Valve so special?

It's THEIR fault the code was stolen, not some hacker. It's THEIR fault the game is delayed, not some hacker. It's THEIR fault.

 

[SadE]

To VALVE : stop say us that the leak is the cause of a 4 months delay ...
WE all know now that the game is far from being finished ... :dozey:

 

[Foggy]

the 'beta' is an OLD build. The E3 levels are far from finished. This is BS, the hackor is lying. The leaked build is an old build, let's say 1 to 2 months BEFORE E3.

 

[SadE]

but not the source .......
I could be wrong , but when you play the 'beta' the hud say '4 days before 09/30"

 

[Sporky]

Originally posted by Feedbag

It's THEIR fault the code was stolen, not some hacker. It's THEIR fault the game is delayed, not some hacker. It's THEIR fault.

It takes two to tango. Although I guess you may not know that yet.

Fundamentally no network is ever completely secure, and no matter what people may think it is in no way unusual for people to have source code and in development work on a pc attached to the internet. You just have to hope the tools you have in place will prevent hacks.

If someone is custom writing exploits to attack you you're at the very least in for a hard time of it.

 

[Feedbag]

Originally posted by Sporky
It takes two to tango. Although I guess you may not know that yet.

Fundamentally no network is ever completely secure, and no matter what people may think it is in no way unusual for people to have source code and in development work on a pc attached to the internet. You just have to hope the tools you have in place will prevent hacks.

If someone is custom writing exploits to attack you you're at the very least in for a hard time of it.

leaving your outlook preview pane open is the equivilant of punching yourself in the balls repeatedly and hoping you dont pee blood.

speaking of peeing blood... here's a little half life humor:

http://hl2world.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=lastup&cat=&pos=0

 

[Junaid]

I've been waitin 4 HL2 4 agesssssssss, now I gota w8 even longer, God damit u bloody hackers (sorry for usin that work i'm jus really p***) :flame:

 

[SadE]

junaid : don't trust in Valve. You'll feel so better ;-)

 

[SpaNsK]

I also don't justify the leak.... but.... I think it was pretty obvious... if they hadn't lied to us, it may not have happened. Why the hell didn't they say the game was delayed until a couple of days of the release?

All time: we are going to release it on date bla bla bla bla. Never a confirmed, official delay etc. Come on.... they knew there weren't going to make it for the date.... but at least they could have kept our trust on them if they had been sincere.

I don't care about delays, I want a good game, but they should do things more openly ^^ after all we all are their customers and they shouldn't let us be disappointed about these things

 

[hunter-killer25]

Originally posted by Feedbag
damage control my ass. they weren't near completion of the game, so they had to delay. now, because of their lax security, they need to rewrite more code. do you leave the door open to your house at night if you live in the city? thats what Valve did.

Also, I really wish everyone would quit with the rear-end kissing fest that has gone on here for the last month. Boo hoo, Valve had their code stolen. Every friggin game ever released has been pirated to some extent. What makes Valve so special?

It's THEIR fault the code was stolen, not some hacker. It's THEIR fault the game is delayed, not some hacker. It's THEIR fault.

what the HELL are you talking about scumbag? SHUTUP! it IS the hackers fault. IT IS THE HACKERS FAULT. HE IS A ENEMY TO GAMERS. if i could get 25 seconds with him i'd shot out his knees stick pins in his eyes and stick a knife through the bottom of his mouth

 

[Sgt.Silencer]

Lets be civil and look at the gacts here.

1. Valve claims they were hacked

2. they claim a 1/3 of the sorce was "stolen"

3. they ask for our help

4. the fbi is brought in "they say"

5. anon leaker says he has more.

So Valve says they were hacked,ok, it happens. They say that only 1/3 of the code was stolen, but I see a playable game floating around. They ask us for help, I turned in a list of 13 sites that had the files for download everyone of them are still up! the ramafacations of having this software up for public download is so FREEKIN huge that no little site could even come close to the legal battle, not to mention the jail term involved. FBI called in? COME ON PEOPLE! The FBI is the FEDERAL government..... they can not shut down web sites known to have the leak? BULLSHIT ! They do as they please.

I do not care how you cut it, this is one big giant cover up for a half finished game and broken promises.

LAST BUT CERTIANLY NOT LEAST. An anon leaker speaks out ? you would have to have your head so far up your butt not to see the crap now. Do you think for one second that the FBI wouldnt demand all the info on the leaker? They would have had him/her in an hour flat. Do you know why we do not hear about arrest being made? There is none to make. THIS IS A WAG THE DOG TACTIC....

The facts are what they are.... The FBI thing blew it for VALVE... SORRY FELLA`S THE FBI WOULD HAVE NABBED THIS GUY A LONG TIME AGO.

Silencer

 

[Vanthem]

Every time I think I can't read any more dense a train of thought, someone surprises me. Silencer earns that honor for the moment, congratulations. ;]

 

[The Grim Reaper]

fbi==a bunch of the most incompetent sorry asses in the known universe.

and it is valve's fault, you don't keep your project network constatntly connected to INet or to an intranet that is connected to INet.

and had had valve come clean after the first leak, that the game isn't nowhere complete hence the delay, we probably wouldn't've had a near full version of the game floating around.

 

[apocalyps3]

no

It's not Valve's fault for someone else committing a crime. Thats like saying its a woman's fault for getting raped.

The person who committed the crime is to blame, no one else. Don't make excuses for other people's actions. We all have self control. Try putting it into action occassionally.

 

[Sgt.Silencer]

Sadly, those people like yourself press on in life believeing anything and everthing that is feed to them.

Our FBI found out who the terrorist who committded 9/11 in 2 or 3 days

I`m sorry you think my thinking they could have cought these folks already is dense..

Sad for you to have to down grade others to feel better.

Silencer

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Re: no

Originally posted by apocalyps3
It's not Valve's fault for someone else committing a crime. Thats like saying its a woman's fault for getting raped.

The person who committed the crime is to blame, no one else. Don't make excuses for other people's actions. We all have self control. Try putting it into action occassionally.

I'm not making excuses for anyone and I didn't say that the whoever did this is a friggin saint, however, if that same woman of yours went for a walk half naked in a bad neighborhood knowing beforehand that she will more than likely get raped then she was asking for it so she has nothing to complain about afterwards. You need to know when to stop pushing your luck.

Originally posted by Sgt.Silencer
Sadly, those people like yourself press on in life believeing anything and everthing that is feed to them.

Our FBI found out who the terrorist who committded 9/11 in 2 or 3 days

I`m sorry you think my thinking they could have cought these folks already is dense..

Sad for you to have to down grade others to feel better.

Silencer

Now who's the one who is being spoon fed ?

Blah, I'm not going to be the one who is going to derail this thread by discussing fed's competence or should I say the lack of such.

 

[apocalyps3]

a

Having the ability does not give you the right. Whether or not Valve is wide open or shut tight does not excuse someone for stealing their stuff.

Yes, they should have been protected themselves and known this was a possibility, but that doesn't excuse the theft nor should the fault lie with Valve.

Again, people need to start using some self control and when they can't, stop distributing the blame to others.

 

[VriendP]

Re: no

Originally posted by apocalyps3
It's not Valve's fault for someone else committing a crime. Thats like saying its a woman's fault for getting raped.

Rape is when a woman changes her mind afterwards :cheese:

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Re: a

Originally posted by apocalyps3
Having the ability does not give you the right. Whether or not Valve is wide open or shut tight does not excuse someone for stealing their stuff.

Yes, they should have been protected themselves and known this was a possibility, but that doesn't excuse the theft nor should the fault lie with Valve.

Again, people need to start using some self control and when they can't, stop distributing the blame to others.

where did I say that I excuse the person who's done it ?

And I think you should follow your own advice of employing some self control instead of drawing a picture of valve being a timid and innocent victim in all of this.

This isn't the first time that a source code/Alpha/Beta of a hot game leaks that way or another and they knew that they had a hot game and that an attempt will be made to get a hold of it and yet they acted carelessly.

Their carelessness is their own fault and no one else's.
There is more than one way to ensure zero exposion of the project to the INet i.e. manual INet access control, separating the INet PC from the intranet entirely, external hot swappable HDs on which to keep the project and take offline when work isn't being done etc. they haven't employed any of them.

 

[apocalyps3]

as

First of all, you aren't the only person to bring this up. You aren't even the first one. So I'm not necessarily talking to you.

Second, what does my self control have to do with painting a picture of Valve as being timid or innocent... that doesn't even make sense. They are innocent as they didn't do anything wrong/criminal (assuming all this is true). I'm not sure why thats a hard concept to understand. They didn't force anyone to break into their stuff.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Re: as

Originally posted by apocalyps3
Second, what does my self control have to do with painting a picture of Valve as being timid or innocent... that doesn't even make sense.

I'm not the one who blindly defends valve, now take a deep breath and imagine that this break in occured after you've used steam to buy or register your HL2 key and now your CC info/key is floating around the web for everyone to use, I doubt you'd've defended valve as you do now.

Originally posted by apocalyps3 They didn't force anyone to break into their stuff.

They didn't do squat to prevent it either.
They've neglected their project's security, so this is their fault that the source code and the game got leaked and not the hacker's, the hacker is guilty of doing something that is illegal - breaking into valve's network but he wouldn't have been able to leak the game had valve properly secured the project on an offline PC/Network.

 

[apocalyps3]

Lets imagine for a second that they have your mom held captive in an underground dugeon surrounded by evil 3 armed pixies who are about to sacrifice her to the 4th realms goat god while we're at it.

Once again, yes, their security is/was deficient. No that doesn't put the blame on them for someone else breaking the law. Just as you can't be blamed for me continuing to reply to this stupid subject.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Originally posted by apocalyps3
Lets imagine for a second that they have your mom held captive in an underground dugeon surrounded by evil 3 armed pixies who are about to sacrifice her to the 4th realms goat god while we're at it.

Once again, yes, their security is/was deficient. No that doesn't put the blame on them for someone else breaking the law. Just as you can't be blamed for me continuing to reply to this stupid subject.

well, actually I can be since I'm the one who's provoking your valve fanboyism which leads to you replying.


btw, I definatly don't envy those pexies nor that god of yours 'cause when my mom gets mad...

 

[tritonconfig]

Re: Re: as

Originally posted by The Grim Reaper
I'm not the one who blindly defends valve, now take a deep breath and imagine that this break in occured after you've used steam to buy or register your HL2 key and now your CC info/key is floating around the web for everyone to use, I doubt you'd've defended valve as you do now.

Lol how true is that.

However it's not like they blatantly put a sign up saying here come hack us. You think because they used outlook that was a crime? Jesus, any game developer out there just about has probably used outlook or something just as insecure before. Even if that particular computer wasn’t hooked up to the net some other computer that had no useful information on it could be hacked and you better believe all the computers are on a network. Meaning in time every computer they could care to search is at their fingers. Taking drastic measures and taking every computer with any useful information off the grid entirely would be like you nailing your windows and door shut every time you leave the house, its just not plausible.

You lock your door every day of your life but once just once you forget and everything you worked for is now gone. So its your fault is it? If it's your fault I expect you not to be collecting any insurance since they shouldn’t pay for "YOUR" mistake.

If anyone is caught it will because of the FBI they know what they are doing that’s why they are there in the first place. It wont be because of the community, but they will of course be announced the heroes. "Loyal fans help catch thief!" yeah I can see the headlines now, what a joke.

I should add to be fair is; When you leave your house everyday there is a pack of wolves prowling outside just waiting for the opportunity. Valve knew there was something going on with the Denial of service attacks. It's not like this came out of left field and caught them by surprise this is of course supposed to be the most anticipated game of the year you better believe someone is going to try to hack you.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Re: Re: Re: as

Originally posted by tritonconfig
You lock your door every day of your life but once just once you forget and everything you worked for is now gone. So its your fault is it? If it's your fault I expect you not to be collecting any insurance since they shouldn’t pay for "YOUR" mistake.

If the insurance company can prove that it's your fault you'll get a big **** you from them, easiest to prove when you get your car keys stolen and the car as well 'cause you need to turn in both sets of keys when collecting insurance, this I can tell you from experience.

The feds can't catch fish in a fish tank(a full fish tank).

Why should the project PC/Network be connected to the Net ?
You want to work from home, you use an external HD.

 

[nonexite]

This article talks a bout network security and spending more money on newer systems etc. I say this again what is not in your net cant't be stolen thru net. Does enybody understand what I'm talking about. ? You can have LAN that is not connected to internet. And a fully different machine's for Internet connection. Then you just have to keep it under wraps that no one connect's those networks to each other. SIMPLE and effective. Why do developers make it too hard on their self's ? Well I dont't know.
Mayby some developer could tell us. Like Valve.

 

[err0rr]

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