How Do You Think We Will Defeat Terrorism?

[jondy]

There are always going to be exceptions. Fact is, improving conditions around the world would result in less angry poor people driving cars with fat bombs in.

 

[Absinthe]

Who is the oppressor of these people? Take the case of Iraq, the sunis oppressed the shia, and now who is doing the bombing?

From a different perspective now, according the the Iraqi shia the US are their oppressors, correct? Is their claim justified? Depends on who you ask. According to me, no its not. They oppressed the shia and all we ask is their cooperation in a democratic Iraq. Instead they take arms because we overthrew their government.

How was McVeigh oppressed? How was Kazynsky oppressed? How were the KKK oppressed? How is PETA oppressed?

You took one thing that I said and disregarded everything else I said.

Take some time and read what I said.

 

[CptStern]

Ok, fine, how about Hamas or Hizbollah or Abu Nidal or Al-Qaeda? I garauntee you someone from this organization has spoken out agains the Zionist movement.

yes but the same can be said about some jewish groups

Why is the west in these places, specificaly Israel? If the US stopped supporting israel how long do you think it would be before all of the arab nations launched an attack on Israel?

this pretty much answers your question:


before Partition:

after partition

without the US' help it wouldnt look like this today

notice the absence of the arab state promised in the partition plan?

 

[Maxi]

Imo Bodacius just wants some attention, or he is seriously a wierd person, and should never be allowed into a position of power.

I say we just ignore his posts, since he isn't making sense. He takes what you say about opressed people, and then makes it look like you said mcveigh was opressed

Opression is not the only reason for a person to blow themselfs up or to kill other people. It takes some serious pushing and making that person feel like shit to make him or her do something like that, attacking them or killing them or invading their country WILL NOT MAKE THEM FEEL BETTER.

 

[jondy]

Nah, he just enjoys getting blatantly owned

 

[Lemonking]

Nuke? na just kidding
I think in 10-15 the US will notice that there plan is not working and then we will see...

 

[burner69]

Imo Bodacius just wants some attention, or he is seriously a wierd person, and should never be allowed into a position of power.

*Looks around, then slowly puts down ballot paper with a tick next to Bodacious*

I say we just ignore his posts, since he isn't making sense. He takes what you say about opressed people, and then makes it look like you said mcveigh was opressed

Opression is not the only reason for a person to blow themselfs up or to kill other people. It takes some serious pushing and making that person feel like shit to make him or her do something like that, attacking them or killing them or invading their country WILL NOT MAKE THEM FEEL BETTER.

Agreed. Although sometimes it is necessary, it is rarely the case.

 

[Bodacious]

I didn't get to respond to the rest of this like I wanted because my ride for lunch was here.

McVeigh, like I said, was a poor white kid who couldn't get along in life due to a string of shitty jobs and a rough upbringing.

And this is the government's fault how? Every hear of personal responsiblity?

A large majority of KKK members were ( are? ) poor whites who are stuck at the bottom of the barrel, and need someone to blame. Like people keep saying in this thread, if these people's quality of life was better, perhaps they wouldn't be reduced to the state that they're in.

Same as above, this is the government's fault how? Sure the gov can enable someone to live poorley, happens all the time, but who enable the government to oppress? The people. It is the people's responsiblity to handle their government. If the majority wants to change the government (in reference to a dictatorship) then those people need to do what is necessary to overthrow their oppressors.

 

[jondy]

And this is the government's fault how? Every hear of personal responsiblity?

Sure the gov can enable someone to live poorley, happens all the time

Good call, buddy.

 

[Bodacious]

You took one thing that I said and disregarded everything else I said.

Take some time and read what I said.

And I made reference to what I thought was relevant. As far as palestinien children goes, I think it is safe to assume that perceived oppression from the Israelies is what caused the "indoctrination, poor upbringing, etc"

Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Bodacious]

Good call, buddy.

OMG, you accuse me of not reading the rest of people's post but turn right around and don't read the rest of mine?

WTF KIND OF CRAP IS THAT?

For pete's sake, if you want to go on an on about how I am "owned" and think I am a weirdo at least attemtp to take the moral high road and not do what I do.

 

[jondy]

Heh, I was just pointing out the fact that you contradicted yourself. Sorry. By the way, 'overthrow the oppressors'? Don't several methods of doing this currently being used by militant groups constitute Terrorism?

 

[Bodacious]

There are always going to be exceptions. Fact is, improving conditions around the world would result in less angry poor people driving cars with fat bombs in.

Yes, I agree, but how those conditions are improved is where we disagree.

They way I see it, in order for Hamas' condition to improve, every jew alive would have to be murdered.

Its not as simple as taxing the rich, is it? Throwing money at things doesnt' solve problems.

Giving in to extremist demands is not the answer.

 

[Bodacious]

Heh, I was just pointing out the fact that you contradicted yourself. Sorry.

Seeing as how you quoted me out of context, your point is void. Have fun dancing around thinking you owned me.

 

[jondy]

*stops dancing, looks around sheepishly*

You did contradict yourself. You said that the government was absolved of responsibility for poor people:

And this is the government's fault how? Every hear of personal responsiblity?

and then carried on to say that the Government 'enables' someone to live poorly.

Sure the gov can enable someone to live poorley, happens all the time

I don't think this dispute can be settled as we both have unresolvable differences of opinion, so I'm just going to drop it. The last point of your post is correct - giving in to extremist demands is not the answer. At least we can agree on that, eh? :cheers:

 

[Bodacious]

yes but the same can be said about some jewish groups

I have to ask for a differnt source seeing as how the root of that page has articles describing that the WTC towers were collapsed by exploseives

this pretty much answers your question:


before Partition:

after partition

without the US' help it wouldnt look like this today

notice the absence of the arab state promised in the partition plan?

Those pictures are fine and dandy and all, but does the final picture take into account the land aquired by the 6 days war?

How do those pictures prove that Arab nations wouldn't overrun israel if they had a chance? How do those pictures prove that organizations like Hamas would murder every jew alive if they had the chance?

 

[Bodacious]

*stops dancing, looks around sheepishly*

You did contradict yourself. You said that the government was absolved of responsibility for poor people:



and then carried on to say that the Government 'enables' someone to live poorly.

But you quoted me out of context. Do you know what that means? Read my post again. I went on to say, "... but who enable the government to oppress? The people."

Come one, you even cut my quote off mid sentace!

I don't think this dispute can be settled as we both have unresolvable differences of opinion, so I'm just going to drop it. The last point of your post is correct - giving in to extremist demands is not the answer. At least we can agree on that, eh? :cheers:

Sure we can agree on that. But that doesn't change the fact you are a troll. What purpose does saying I was "owned" serve? What purpose does intentionally quoteing me out of context serve? Come on, I give you a little more intelectual credit than that, but I am having doubts.

 

[Bodacious]

Imo Bodacius just wants some attention, or he is seriously a wierd person, and should never be allowed into a position of power.

I say we just ignore his posts, since he isn't making sense. He takes what you say about opressed people, and then makes it look like you said mcveigh was opressed

Again, putting me, a person with an opposing viewpoint, is the exchange of ideas? With every comment like this, my accusation that pople on here only hear what they agree with is being strengthened.

 

[Maxi]

You still contradicted yourself.

 

[jondy]

Alright, I'll see if I can clear this up. What you went on to say:

but who enables the government to oppress - the people

Had no bearing on what was previously said:

Sure the government can enable someone to live poorly, happens all the time

Thus I got rid of it, to keep the quotes sharp so they had maximum impact.

How does the top sentence change context? If a government is 'enabled' to keep people poor, then surely it is not the people's responsibility if they are poor. But you absolved the Government of responsibility, and then said they were able to keep people poor.

And this is the governments fault, how? Ever heard of personal responsibility?

Thus, a contradiction.

Let's leave it at that, yeah? We're never going to sort this out.

 

[CptStern]

I have to ask for a differnt source seeing as how the root of that page has articles describing that the WTC towers were collapsed by exploseives

"On July 22, 1946, members of the Jewish underground militant organization Irgun Tsvai-Leumi in the British Mandate of Palestine detonated a bomb in the King David Hotel in Jerusalem. The hotel was the base for the British Secretariat, the military command and a branch of the Criminal Investigation Division (police). 91 people were killed, most of them civilians: 28 British, 41 Arab, 17 Jewish, and 5 other. Around 45 people were injured."

source




ughhhhhh! I found one where jewish settlers had cut off the arm of a 9 yr old palestinian olive picker ..I wont post the link cuz it shows a very graphic picture ..but it's on indymedia.org


"A group of heavily armed messianic Jewish terrorists from the settlement of Yitzhar near Nablus descended on Palestinian olive growers and began shooting and beating them.

One Palestinian, boy Ra'id Abu Zeid was knocked unconscious and the lunatic Zionist hacked his arm off then Hani Shehadeh, was shot in the neck, reportedly by a settler dressed in military uniform.

The man and boy where transferred to a local hospital where they are listed in serious condition.

A spokesman of the Rafidya hospital where Ra'id and Shehadeh was transferred said the victims underwent surgery and are recuperating in the intensive care unit.


"I saw a settler kneel and take position. Then he trained his rifle toward Shadi and shot him," said Darwish Shadi, a relative of the victim who was also harvesting olive with him.

“A group of settlers grabbed Ra'id Abu Zeid while they where beating with a chain the children picking olives, two Zionists threw Ra'id to the ground and hacked his arm off with a butcher knife while the other zionists continued to beat the other children .” said Sulaiman Abu age 20

Jewish settlers routinely harass and attack Palestinian olive growers to starve them and force them to leave their land or die.

Last year, a number of Jewish religious leaders issued edicts Demanding Jewish settlers to steal Palestinian olive crops.

They said "it is their duty as jews to steal from those around them that are not jewish"

The Israeli army coordinates the attacks to aid in murdering Palestinians. "


but here's a few more examples:

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/67C726C2-CD4A-40A3-B2AE-182E71838762.htm

http://english.pravda***/usa/2001/12/14/23593.html


here's a jewish terrorist wanted poster

Those pictures are fine and dandy and all, but does the final picture take into account the land aquired by the 6 days war?

the last map shows ALL occupied territories

How do those pictures prove that Arab nations wouldn't overrun israel if they had a chance? How do those pictures prove that organizations like Hamas would murder every jew alive if they had the chance?

well I dont see the arab nations overunning anybody ..actually it's the other way around dont you think? my maps prove that

 

[Bodacious]

You still contradicted yourself.

Yah, if you want to keep quoting me out of context, I did.


Lets quote you out of context:

I just want some attention. I should be allowed to kill other people. Attacking them or killing them will make them feel better. I say we just blow other people up.

So it is ok to kill people now and blow them up? Its true cause you said it, right? I mean, that is what I quoted from you. /silliness

Everyone of those words were quoted from your post, look and see for yourself.

Quotations out of context do not an argument make.

 

[GhostFox]

War against an idea is unwinnable. Simple.

Sure it is. Do you know what won the Cold War? It wasn't Regan. It was Pepsi. It was Sony-Walkman's, it was ALF. Western Culture won the war. It made people realize the better life they could have.

Once a foothold is established, and all the extremists realize how much their lives suck, and how much better they would be if they weren't all obsessed with killing non-muslims, they are going to go to Starbucks and pick up a coffee, pick up a big screen from Sears, order in some pizza and watch the World Cup. When you have those things, blowing up people just doesn't seem worth it anymore.

If you try and kill all of them you never will win. It is about killing enough to disrupt their efforts, until the real war, a war of ideas, is won. The first McDonalds to open in Iraq will be a major step in that direction.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

The quote in Maxikana's sig says my opinion on the matter, really.

"We must not believe the many; who say that only free people are to be educated, but we should rather believe the philosophers who say that only the educated are free."

The root cause of terrorism is definitely poor education. Unemployment too, really.
Sure, there are educated wealthy terrorists, but they're generally the ones recruiting the stupid ones to do the bombing and fighting for them while they sit back and watch.
If the world were smarter, these hatemongers wouldn't have nearly as many followers.

 

[Bodacious]

Alright, I'll see if I can clear this up. What you went on to say:



Had no bearing on what was previously said:



Thus I got rid of it, to keep the quotes sharp so they had maximum impact.

How does the top sentence change context? If a government is 'enabled' to keep people poor, then surely it is not the people's responsibility if they are poor. But you absolved the Government of responsibility, and then said they were able to keep people poor.



Thus, a contradiction.

Let's leave it at that, yeah? We're never going to sort this out.

Um, no. The pople enable the government to oppress. That is my point. What I went on to say had everthing to do with what came before it. The only reason it wouldn't is because you don't want it to. I am sorry you misinterpreted it that way, but that is not the way it is.

I am putting you on ignore because you are nothing but a troll and add nothing to the argument except to annoy me.

 

[GhostFox]

Sure, there are educated wealthy terrorists, but they're generally the ones recruiting the stupid ones to do the bombing and fighting for them while they sit back and watch.
If the world were smarter, these hatemongers wouldn't have nearly as many followers.

You are 100% correct. Many of them are brainwashed from early childhood. The rest are kept ignorant simply so they are easier to use. The terrorist leaders don't even see their followers as people, simply as tools.

 

[kirovman]

The Cold War was settled through diplomacy and leaders within the enemy who were willing to change.

I don't recall Russia and the West being at war as such, relations were cold, true, (hence Cold War) but it wasn't a "hot war", except for the occasional futile wars, on both sides (Vietnam, Afghanistan, etc).

 

[Maxi]

Yah, if you want to keep quoting me out of context, I did.


Lets quote you out of context:



So it is ok to kill people now and blow them up? Its true cause you said it, right? I mean, that is what I quoted from you. /silliness

Everyone of those words were quoted from your post, look and see for yourself.

Quotations out of context do not an argument make.

I didn't make things up from words you wrote. I took what you meant and quoted it out of context. Yes I could quote your entire post, YOU WOULD STILL BE OUT OF CONTEXT.

 

[Bodacious]

"On July 22, 1946, members of the Jewish underground militant organization Irgun Tsvai-Leumi in the British Mandate of Palestine detonated a bomb in the King David Hotel in Jerusalem. The hotel was the base for the British Secretariat, the military command and a branch of the Criminal Investigation Division (police). 91 people were killed, most of them civilians: 28 British, 41 Arab, 17 Jewish, and 5 other. Around 45 people were injured."

the rest omitted for lenght

Thank you for those links. I will continue to educate myself on the subject

As I have said before, terrorism is terrorism, no doubt about that and even the jews are inexcusable. Even still, the governing body of Israel does not support these groups, as far as I am aware. I say this becuase Israelies have agreed ato stop the violence and let the palestinians have their state. I might not have noticed but since this latest agement the Israelies haven't fired anything, have they? That is also not to say that given the chance, in order to make some militant muslims happy, they would murder every jew they could.

well I dont see the arab nations overunning anybody ..actually it's the other way around dont you think? my maps prove that

The 6 days war, ever read any info on that? The arab nations did exactly as i described, tried to overrun israel. Given the chance do you not think they would do it again?

 

[Bodacious]

I didn't make things up from words you wrote. I took what you meant and quoted it out of context. Yes I could quote your entire post, YOU WOULD STILL BE OUT OF CONTEXT.

How did you know what I mean? You are a psychic now? How many fingers am I holding up?

What I meant was, and for your clarificaiton, The government is enabled by the people to oppress.

 

[CptStern]

Thank you for those links. I will continue to educate myself on the subject

As I have said before, terrorism is terrorism, no doubt about that and even the jews are inexcusable. Even still, the governing body of Israel does not support these groups, as far as I am aware.

read the indymedia quote ..there's some evidence that the jewish authorities goaded the settlers into acts of violence

I say this becuase Israelies have agreed ato stop the violence and let the palestinians have their state.

I'll believe that when I see it come to fruition ..many jews have said they'd rather die than allow a palestinian state ..at the same time some palestinians have said they wont rest till they got ALL of their land back

I might not have noticed but since this latest agement the Israelies haven't fired anything, have they? That is also not to say that given the chance, in order to make some militant muslims happy, they would murder every jew they could.

who the palestinian authority? please they have no say as to what the radicals do, much in the same way the israeli government doesnt control what fringe zionists do

The 6 days war, ever read any info on that? The arab nations did exactly as i described, tried to overrun israel. Given the chance do you not think they would do it again?

ah be that as it may ..israel wouldnt have stood a chance if it were not for US help ..still, the evidence shows the israeli government has been an expansionist one since it's formation ..there's no further evidence that the arab world has any designs on invading israel

 

[GhostFox]

You complain about Fox News, and then post a link to Indymedia? Talk about the height of hypocrisy. Indymedia makes Al-Jazera look unbiased in their views.

 

[CptStern]

really? I dont see how they could be biased in this instance ..they printed the photo of the boy's hacked off arm ...are you saying it didnt happen? btw did you bother to even look up the article or are you just jumping to the conclusion that it's biased? based on what exactly?

 

[Nofuture]

Sure it is. Do you know what won the Cold War? It wasn't Regan. It was Pepsi. It was Sony-Walkman's, it was ALF. Western Culture won the war. It made people realize the better life they could have.

Simply not true.
It wasn´t Reagan, of course. And it wasn´t Pepsi etc., of course.

 

[MjM]

You can never get rid of terrorism, there will always be extremists.

What you can do is sort out alot of the inequalities around the world. Sorting out the Palistine-Israel situation, with diplomacy, would be a good start. Promoting fair trade, western countries should cut subsidies to their farmers and industries, so african nations in particular can start on the road to prosperity. Promote democracy but not impose it, i mean how democratic is that? If democracy is all its cracked up to be, sooner or later people in countries will embrace it, in one form or another. We shouldnt appease anyone, the UN needs to grow some bigger balls, and intervene more readily, like how NATO did in Kosovo. Get rid of debt, which is enslaving countries into subsistance, and eliminating the chance for development.

We need to support and promote education, communication and interaction. IMO.

 

[RabidMeatloaf]

We will defeat terrorism using a big, pointy stick with turbo spatula attachments!!!


In reality, I believe that the only way we can "defeat" terror is to radically change our foreign policy and work together with the U.N. to spread literacy, health and a better standard of living thoughout the world.

Only then will we finally start defeating terrorism.

Just my .000004 cents.

 

[seinfeldrules]

The way we will defeat terrorism is to eliminate as much terroritory they posses as possible. They no longer have the ability to train in places like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq and many other places in the Middle East due to our new foreign policy. Furthermore, a successful Iraq will play a major role. We can see that this is already going down the correct path with highly successfull elections only recently occuring.

 

[Maui]

Technically speaking, you *can* kill an idea if you kill everyone who has that idea and wipe its existance from the record of humanity. Not that I'm advocating this.

And Stern, for future reference, I'm going to have a hard time trusting news sources from al-jazeera, and quite frankly I'm suprised you do. I generally don't agree with your views, but I can understand how you could hold them usually. This really suprises me.

 

[seinfeldrules]

so im guessing u actually think it can be stopped seinfield... why??

Not completely, but in its current form I believe it can. I was more referring to the Islamic terrorism found in places like Afghanistan and Iraq, not so much the belief of terrorism in general.

 

[GhostFox]

Simply not true.
It wasn´t Reagan, of course. And it wasn´t Pepsi etc., of course.

You are welcome to post a counter theory NoFuture, but it is silly to dismiss my assertion out of hand. It is commonly accepted among many that North American pop culture was a signifigant catalyst in bringing an end to the cold war. It's human nature to want a good life. Once people realize they can have it if they stop whatever it is they are doing, their 'beliefs' no longer seem very important to them.