Hows Oblivion?

[phantomdesign]

I voted "good" but I'd have to say it's sometimes merely good and sometimes it awesome. It also depends on whether you're looking at the XBOX or PC Version - and whether or not you'd be willing to add MODS to the PC version. The XBOX version seems to be abotu as good as you'll get for a console game. PC Gamers will be a litttle dissapointed by some gameplay & performance issues - however MODS will (and already are) improving the gaming experience.

It's EASILY worth paying the $50 to get, I think my current dissapointments are mostly due to the pre-release hype.

 

[WhiteZero]

PC Gamers will be a litttle dissapointed by some gameplay & performance issues

What gameplay and performance issues?
Unless your trying to run it on settings that your PC obviously cant handle, then your not going to have any performance issues. On top of that, there are tons of tweaks that you can do to the ini file to optimize the game even further, or even max out lots of settings if you have a good rig.

As for gameplay, it's exactly the same if not better than the 360 version. I quote Penny-Arcade:

Things like harvesting an entire field of medicinal herbs just aren't something I want to do with an analog nubbin. Also: Oblivion looks pretty great, but the faults it does have are just writ large on the 360 version. I don't have a "projection screen" at home so much as I have a "forty dollar piece of melamine coated cabinet wood I bought from a contractor," but the principle is the same: you're dealing with a fixed amount of fidelity. It's like having a tiny amount of jam and a huge slice of toast. It's something I just couldn't get away from on the three-sixty, where on the PC it's just me and my eldritch archer mother****ing tooling around the countryside, happily avoiding the main quest.

And with MODs, it makes the gameplay mounds better. For instance, my horse now has saddle bags to dump my loot into; I have auto-level up enabled so I dont have to bother sleeping (never really liked that feature anyway); my Kajiit Night Sight and Vampire Hunters Sight are now toggles, instead of having a 30second time limit (extreemly usefull); the "no psychic guards" mod; incredible UI improvments so you can fit 3x the ammount of items on your screen and also make the map larger (a god-send); better weapon/armor durability, since they seem to break way too easily; etc; etc; etc; the future has no limits.

 

[Mutley]

I'm going to make a Mage next with all the mods for the game I like. Can't use mods on current saved games and I want to see the difference from default to modded game.

Performance is sweet on my PC (medium/high), thats just with a puny 6600! No lag at all!

 

[WhiteZero]

Can't use mods on current saved games and I want to see the difference from default to modded game.

Depends on what MODs you want to use.
All the ones I'm using I installed on an in-progress game.

 

[CookieCuttah]

I try to see what people don't like about it, but when I start up the game and try to see it I always easily overlook it by my extreme liking for the game. I get simular pleasure from Oblivion as from playing HL2

 

[phantomdesign]

What gameplay and performance issues?
Unless your trying to run it on settings that your PC obviously cant handle, then your not going to have any performance issues. On top of that, there are tons of tweaks that you can do to the ini file to optimize the game even further, or even max out lots of settings if you have a good rig.

Some PC users have performance issues - some of it is because it requires a high-end PC, others are just the usual early-release bugs that need a patch. I didn't mean to sound like there were major performance issues.

As far as me saying PC gamers will be slightly dissapointed with gameplay issues, what I mean is that the style of it is rather console-ish. However it seems that MODS are comming out that fix it, such as an improved user-interface and removal of item-scaling.

It's not my intention to diss the game at all, I'm just giving the good and the bad. It is am amazing game - I think I mostly rated it good, because item-scaling was annoying me greatly at the time I wrote that, but . . . I guess I should start installing these MODs I've found.

 

[mortiz]

In the Elder Scrolls game your are playing the part of the "unlikely hero" who rises to save the day and defeate whatever foe you've been pitted against. In the case of Oblivion, it's the Deadra Army,
the Mythic Dawn, etc.
The game is chock-****ing-full of lore about the world, which encompases all 4 of the Elder Scrolls games. You have any idea just how many damn books are in the game to read?

That's all very well but I see little bearing on the actual gameplay. If I wished to spend hours reading fictitious lore I'd read a real book by a good author, not some generic stock fantasy crap that I've seen in tens of other fantasy games to date. There's nothing about the story in Oblivion that's even remotely original. "The unlikely hero", oh boy, how many times have we seen that before?

Just because some people dont want to get very intergal with the games story dosent discount it's roleplaying nature. Yes, the Elder Scrolls games are unique in the fact that they are first-person (mostly) and are more action based than many RPGs. Just because your not fighting in a turn-based battle system (ala FF1 - 10), dosent somehow, magically make it not an RPG.
Get over it.

Haha, if you think the Final Fantasy games are the epitome of role-playing you have some research to do young man. A CRPG is meant to be character driven. Stat systems in a CRPG are there to take away the emphasis on player reflexes. It shouldn't matter how quick you are with the mouse, it should be all about the character you've developed inside of the game. This is not the case with Oblivion. The badly hacked together dialogue tree system that barely ever goes past one level and very rarely leads to different outcomes of a conversation is proof that a lot more emphasis went on the combat in this game. The combat system itself still relies heavily on reflexes and pretty much only on reflexes since the mobs scale with your character.

A CRPG should allow the player to affect the outcome of certain aspects of the game, for instance if you kill persons X then event B will happen further down the road that will have some affect on the world itself. Oblivion doesn't use this and Final Fantasy certainly didn't use this. In order to complete Oblivion you have to go through a certain number of linear steps, with little to no degree of freedom. While there might be sub-quests built around this main quest the main quest itself remains almost constant. Thus, Oblivion is an action game and not a CRPG.

Exactly what do you think constitutes an RPG may I ask? A stat system and the fact that you can customize your characters appearance (not even a requirement in a CRPG)?

Name me an RPG where leveling up and getting new equipment isnt the sole purpose of fighting harder enemies? ...Didnt think so

You level in real CRPGs in order to stand yourself in good steed when you come up to the tougher enemies but also to be able stave of the weaker ones. In Oblivion no matter how much dungeon crawling you do in order to make your character stronger as soon as you come up to those tougher enemies they're not going to be any easier, in fact the game punishes you for training up your character.

Empty? Hahahahaa. Elder Scrolls games are anything but empty. Seeings that they've been painstakingly handplaced with hundreds of thousands of items all over the world to give it a very natural feeling. Not to mention the outright huge ammount of places to explore.

I've pretty much chocked up your posts to "omg! This isnt a japanese-style RPG! I hate it!"

Take your ignorant, closed-minded posts elsewhere, eh?

Again, what gave you the impression I was talking about Japanese RPGs? Also where's the fun in exploring the world and finding new items when there's no danger in it? I thought the whole fun of it was to wander into a dungeon way above your level and maybe get your ass kicked by some huge narly monster so then you can tell your friends about this really cool tough dungeon that you've found? Oblivion doesn't have that. It's taken the danger for your character out of exploring meaning exploring is just boring.

 

[Asuka]

AWESOME 1st RPG i played in YEARS and im loving it. This game is getting me back into this genre, i wasnt planning on buying this game at all. But i took a risk and loved it. Iv been playing for hours and doing side quest. Didnt even go and START the main quest and iv been playing for HOURS probably around 10 or so.

 

[Cole]

Well Mortiz, thats why anything you don't like in Oblivion, on the pc anyway, YOU CAN MOD IT SO YOU DO LIKE IT.

 

[WhiteZero]

I thought the whole fun of it was to wander into a dungeon way above your level and maybe get your ass kicked by some huge narly monster so then you can tell your friends about this really cool tough dungeon that you've found? Oblivion doesn't have that. It's taken the danger for your character out of exploring meaning exploring is just boring.

Again, your ignorance shines. I've had that exact thing happen to me atleased 3 times now.

And did I say that FF was the epitomy of Roleplaying, or are you just trying to discount my example?
-.-

It shouldn't matter how quick you are with the mouse, it should be all about the character you've developed inside of the game.

80% of it is how well developed your character is. I'm sorry, but if I'm holding a sword and swinging it at something, I'm going to hit it.

In order to complete Oblivion you have to go through a certain number of linear steps, with little to no degree of freedom. While there might be sub-quests built around this main quest the main quest itself remains almost constant. Thus, Oblivion is an action game and not a CRPG.

BS
Yes, there are certian things that you have to do, but the way in which you do them is upto the player.
Example: *SPOILERS*
I had to track down some guy in the Mythic Dawn and try to get the amulet from him. What was recommended is that I dress up like a member and attend a cerimony. But my guy being the assassin that he is, I just snuck in, sniped out everyone with my bow or back stabed them, and chased down the Mythic Dawn guy (who got away).

Again, your playing on ignorance, my friend. Maybe you need to play the game some more before going off like this.
Or maybe the game just isnt your style of RPG. Did you ever think of that? Just because it dosent follow this exact template your looking for in an RPG, dose not discount it as an RPG. You aparently need to learn that a roleplaying game dosent need to be exactly like your favortie one. I've played Diablo, Final Fantasy, Legened of Legia, Xenogears and I even play pen & paper D&D and similar games (Shadowrun, DC Heroes, CyberPunk, etc).

RPG isnt this specific thing, there are many different types.

If you really want to get nitty-gritty about it (obviously), then you can classify it as an Action RPG or Action Adventure.

Get-over-it, this is pathetic.
"I don't like it, so it isnt an RPG"
*sigh*

Anyway, I'm done with trying to agrue this with you, since your just taking the opinionated standpoint and not willing to really listen to what people are saying.

 

[bvasgm]

Oblivion = the shit.

Buy it now.

 

[mortiz]

I'd like to officially announce my departure from TIL and the The Elder Scrolls Community. This is my last day here as a Librarian.

I assume some of you want to know why I'm leaving. Well, there are two main reasons.

First of all, Oblivion has disappointed me greatly. I really don't like the game. I think it's too darn mainstream. It doesn't even feel like an RPG to me. More like a hack and slash game for the action gamers. Sure, there's a lot of eye candy in the game, but I think the gameplay is really bad.

I admit I didn't have high hopes for the game - anyone who has read my recent to semi-recent posts on the Official Forums knows that. But I did have high hopes for the ingame books. I have to say that I'm disappointed in that department as well: half of the books, if not more, were in former TES games (In Morrowind, mostly.). Also, I believe the new books are not nearly on par with the old ones.

So yes, I think Oblivion sucks. So bad that I've decided to leave. I know most people think it's a masterpiece. But folks, I don't want to argue with you. Please, respect my opinion and I'll respect yours.

That from one the biggest ES fans around. At 30+ hours of gameplay people should realise there's a true lack of RPG content in this game. This game is a hack and slah made for people who like hack and slash action games, like Diablo, now while I like Diablo I certainly wouldn't ever call it an CRPG. If you like Hack and slash games more the power to you, but when something is labelled as an RPG I expect an RPG. Personally I think the action elements in this game are rather well done, but in my opinion the design of the world is wrong for an action-slash.

 

[CptStern]

when something is labelled as an RPG I expect an RPG.

I'm trying to grasp what exactly you're refering to ...what constitues an rpg to you (and others like you)

 

[mortiz]

I'm trying to grasp what exactly you're refering to ...what constitues an rpg to you (and others like you)

OK, a few things that I consider a must in a CRPG:

A CRPG should be character driven, not action driven, it should provide multiple solutions to the same problem, such as in Fallout for example, you could talk the end boss into killing himself. As far as combat, CRPG combat shouldn't take into account a player’s ability with a mouse, it should rely on the players play style and which skills they've devoted time in. A CRPG should have a branching and interesting dialogue system; speech should allow the player to affect the game in some profound way. Certain actions or routes that the player takes should have some affect on the world or the outcome of the game. While side quests are important, the developers should also go so far as to limit the number of linear steps required to complete the main quest line. The player should be allowed to go from point A to point C without passing through point B if they so wish, however this is generally only applicable to re-runs, since most of the time the player won't have enough information to go straight to point C. That doesn't mean it should be actively stopped.

 

[Que-Ever]

OK, a few things that I consider a must in a CRPG:

A CRPG should be character driven, not action driven, it should provide multiple solutions to the same problem, such as in Fallout for example, you could talk the end boss into killing himself. As far as combat, CRPG combat shouldn't take into account a player’s ability with a mouse, it should rely on the players play style and which skills they've devoted time in. A CRPG should have a branching and interesting dialogue system; speech should allow the player to affect the game in some profound way. Certain actions or routes that the player takes should have some affect on the world or the outcome of the game. While side quests are important, the developers should also go so far as to limit the number of linear steps required to complete the main quest line. The player should be allowed to go from point A to point C without passing through point B if they so wish, however this is generally only applicable to re-runs, since most of the time the player won't have enough information to go straight to point C. That doesn't mean it should be actively stopped.

so, like, off the top of my head... KotoR?

 

[Mutley]

Oh noes, shh. The mortiz might come back. :|

 

[CptStern]

OK, a few things that I consider a must in a CRPG:

A CRPG should be character driven, not action driven, it should provide multiple solutions to the same problem, such as in Fallout for example, you could talk the end boss into killing himself. As far as combat, CRPG combat shouldn't take into account a player’s ability with a mouse, it should rely on the players play style and which skills they've devoted time in. A CRPG should have a branching and interesting dialogue system; speech should allow the player to affect the game in some profound way. Certain actions or routes that the player takes should have some affect on the world or the outcome of the game. While side quests are important, the developers should also go so far as to limit the number of linear steps required to complete the main quest line. The player should be allowed to go from point A to point C without passing through point B if they so wish, however this is generally only applicable to re-runs, since most of the time the player won't have enough information to go straight to point C. That doesn't mean it should be actively stopped.

those days are gone ..Oblivion is a AAA title, you cant expect them to pigeon hole themselves by creating a game that only appeals to a small segment of gamers ...to devote millions of dollars to a game that has a small built in audience doesnt make much sense ..as in any business they'd want to maximize their profit ..and that means making a game that's accesible for ALL types of players ..which can be interpreted as "dumbing down" a game

take Hidden and Dangerous 2 as an example: it was released during the glut of ww2 games but offered something the others didnt, squad play mixed in with somewhat open game play ...but it did poorly next to say MoH pacific assualt which was mediocre at best and highly derivative ..EA spent millions, the devlopers of HD2 spent a fraction of that but probably got more return for their investment ..but EA comes on top because of their built in audience who will buy games based on name recognition alone

games cater to what fans want (or what developers/publishers think they want). Creating a game is a huge finacial risk. Creating a game that is different is an even bigger financial risk, one that publishers are not willing to fund because they can just churn out cloned games that will be released more frequently and give slightly deminished returns that is recouped through development costs

you cant blame Oblivion for not being the game you want it to be ...it's obviously the game many people want it to be ..and that's all that matters to the publishers



this game looks like what you're looking for

http://pc.ign.com/articles/697/697758p1.html

 

[Gargantou]

I have to agree with Sinder Velvin in some part, it's a great game imo, so there I disagree with him, but in comparison to the other ES games, it feels very dumbed down, simplified and feels far more like a hack'n'slash than an RPG with those as comparison.
I view this more as a sidegame off the ES series, like Redguard and Battlespire, rather than a sequel, atleast that's how I percieve it, I know officially it's a sequel but I mean gameplaywise.
And yes I think it's valid for me to have this opinion seeing as I'm playing through Daggerfall(ES2) and Oblivion(ES4) at the same.

 

[Laivasse]

@Numbers' OP - I voted awesome, because it's just a top drawer game. My PC can't do it justice, and there are a lot of small niggles, but anyone who enjoys the idea of trekking blindly through forest in the middle of the rain at night searching for a place to sleep (me) will enjoy this. Of all things, actually the voice acting disappoints me - the same voices pop up endlessly, and half of the actors seem like they didn't know how to read their lines, or were recording tons of stuff at once, and just reading stuff out without thinking or emoting properly. Item/NPC scaling is a bit annoying, dialogue and the 'persuasion' system could use a bit more depth, but with those fixed you'd have the perfect game, which it isn't, so *shrug* but it's still awesome.

Mortiz - the fact that you don't like item/NPC scaling and the fact that the dialogue options aren't particularly extensive does not suddenly cease to make Oblivion an RPG.

You're missing the point if you say stuff like 'oh, one hero against the world, how often have we seen that scenariao, lawl'. Oblivion's 'originality' is not that it somehow reinvents a genre, but that it has combined the interactivity and visual immersion of FPS with the scale and freedom of an RPG-style world more successfully than any game to date. The fact that you don't like how it does it doesn't make it any less of an RPG. Why should it matter to anyone that some guy stopped following the ES series as a result of Oblivion? It happens with any games series; people thinking they're part of the 'old school' because they have such strong emotions connected to their memories of the earlier games, and then get disappointed when new games don't live up to nostalgia.

 

[mortiz]

those days are gone ..

You are correct, but that doesn't make Oblivion any more of an RPG does it? Some would say the age of the RPG is gone, that no more true RPGs are made, and with the death of Troika and what they're sticking "RPG!" on these days I'm inclined to agree.

 

[CptStern]

You are correct, but that doesn't make Oblivion any more of an RPG does it?

you'll have to forgive my ignorance of pc rpg's as my exposure is limited ...can you give examples of games you think are true rpgs? and no it doesnt make Oblivion any more of an rpg ...but that wasnt my point. What I am saying is that the game you're describing just isnt feasible with today's technology and least not when you marry your type of gameplay with Oblivion style graphics/open ended world ...the game lags on high end systems, adding a party system with multiple controlable characters would have made it unplayable ... has there ever been a fps rpg like oblivion that has met the criteria of what you believe to be an rpg?

Some would say the age of the RPG is gone, that no more true RPGs are made, and with the death of Troika and what they're sticking "RPG!" on these days I'm inclined to agree.

I briefly played Vampires bloodline and I didnt see much difference between it and oblivion in terms of rpg gameplay; oblivion imho is much more immersive

 

[Gargantou]

Not only the death of troika, but the turn that the ES series have taken, I can only dream that ES5 will NOT be simplified, but I guess they have to do that to get more sales, and it's all about the cash these days..
As I said earlier, ES4 feels more like a hack'n'slash than an RPG.. ES3 felt like a real RPG imo, and ES2 DEFINITELY IS a real RPG.
And fyi, ES2 wasn't party-based, neither was ES1 or ES3, that really doesn't make'em less of an RPG you know..
I mean, all RPG stand for is ROLE PLAYING GAME, you might be ROLE PLAYING a character without any friends and without any party!

 

[CptStern]

it seems to me that you're saying that the combat in oblivion (hack and slash) is what prevents it from being a true rpg, but I think that's inappropriate ..I dont see why an rpg MUST have turned based combat ..role playing means role playing, it doesnt matter what device they choose to implement so long as the game allows you to "role play". Pausing the game to set up your combat stance/attack combo etc breaks the immersion for me ..now we're playing/controlling with puppets/avatars not role playing. I have no problem suspending my disbelief and immersing myself in the world of oblvion ..pausing the game to handle my party/stats/buffs etc breaks immersion for me ..I'd rather just leap into the fray and let my skill do the work for me


When I'm in oblivion I extend some of myself into the world ...like last night, I broke into a house in the middle of the night to do some thievery, I was spotted by the house owner who began to yell at me, so I silenced him so as to not alert the guards: that's role playing, I knew in the back of my mind that I was dealing with a virtual character and that his yelling had no real consequences (he has to leave the house in order to alert the guards) but my mind suspended disbelief for that moment and I acted accordingly and now there's a lifeless body in a shack in chorrol ...having a few more random stats or ties to the world as a whole wouldnt have made it all that much more immersive for me

 

[VictimOfScience]

As I said earlier, ES4 feels more like a hack'n'slash than an RPG

I can see what you mean, but I think that the reason it feels more like a hack and slash is that you are doing so much of the hack and slash yourself. Its a smaller world than the previous titles and therefore its more condensed so that you are usually close to battle at most times. Its just full of action.

I, however, think that it seems much more like a very immersive RPG in the old-style, like Baldur's Gate, but in first-person perspective, which is not at all a bad thing when it is done as well as this. The skill system gives me more of a sense of character growth than in BG too and the first person perspective, especially if you don't use fast-travel, really adds to the immersion in the world. When you finally reach a town or shrine or cave, you feel the relief--you feel like you have really travelled there. I think it feels very much like a very classic RPG (with a healthy dose of rousing melee thrown in) and I am very happy about that.

 

[Laivasse]

I never played much of the earlier ES games, but allow me to offer my 2p as to why i think it feels more action-ery and Hack and Slash-ey than many RPG purists might be happy with.

In the past, with the limitations of technology, RPGs have been by nature pretty basic affairs, in terms of how they depict the physical world. You just direct your character to 'Attack', or you click on an enemy, and then for the most part your stats and your level does the rest of the work. That's what we think of as an 'RPG' because that's what an RPG has always been. As I understand it, the combination of this kind of system with an FPS viewpoint in Morrowind made for quite an awkward battle system.

In Oblivion, Bethesda have tried to marry that old 'click and the computer works it out' system with a bit of believability and immersion in that they place the sword-swing back in the players hands; they make it so that no matter what your level, if you swing a sword and hit someone with it, it's going to hurt. This makes for more arcadey style play in that all you fat geeks actually have to grow some coordination (disclaimer: joke), yet it's entirely in keeping with the kind of game where you can physically pick up a cup and drop it off a table - and it ALSO does involve the stats to a large degree, in that at low levels you do less damage, can't attack as fast, can't follow up so well, get screwed up worse by the enemy's attacks, etc. At the same time, the enemy scaling makes it so that you feel less of a sense of progression in your power, so that adds to the whole 'dammit my stats don't matter!' sensation, but they still do.

Admittedly, leaving everything to stats and letting your imagination do the rest might be more faithful to old pen and paper roleplaying, but it's still not the only way an RPG might or should work. By mortiz' criteria, only about 2 or 3 'true' RPGs have been made ever. FF is a type of RPG, BG is a type of RPG, Fallout is a type of RPG, the earlier ES games were another type - and Oblivion is yet another. I personally think Bethesda found a great balance - besides it's an adorable game no matter how much of a 'true' RPG you think it is, and not all of the things that make it feel different are down to it being 'consolified' or anything like that.

 

[Sainku]

You are correct, but that doesn't make Oblivion any more of an RPG does it? Some would say the age of the RPG is gone, that no more true RPGs are made, and with the death of Troika and what they're sticking "RPG!" on these days I'm inclined to agree.

Oblivion takes about as much skill with a mouse as using windows xp. Way less then clicking all those shortcuts at the bottom of the UI in NWN. How does having combat skill based (Which I don't like saying, because the combat takes none) make it less of an rpg? Having to click to swing my sword in no way inhibits me from carrying out a role. You say oblivion is an action game with a stat system. One could say fallout is little but a turn-based strategy with a stat system. RPG is already used in the most unliteral sense to describe games like the popular final fantasy, how does oblivion stray any further from you're definition of rpg than a game like that?

this game looks like what you're looking for

http://pc.ign.com/articles/697/697758p1.htm

I doubt he would like that. The combat system just isn't crpg enough.

 

[CptStern]

heh my link doesnt work anymore

the game was gothic 3

http://pc.ign.com/objects/726/726093.html


would someone PLEASE explain the difference between crpg and rpg?

 

[Laivasse]

Oblivion takes about as much skill with a mouse as using windows xp. Way less then clicking all those shortcuts at the bottom of the UI in NWN. How does having combat skill based (Which I don't like saying, because the combat takes none) make it less of an rpg? Having to click to swing my sword in no way inhibits me from carrying out a role. You say oblivion is an action game with a stat system. One could say fallout is little but a turn-based strategy with a stat system. RPG is already used in the most unliteral sense to describe games like the popular final fantasy, how does oblivion stray any further you're definition of rpg than a game like that?

Who were you talking to? I was saying the same thing as you.

edit: no worries, never mind

 

[VictimOfScience]

would someone PLEASE explain the difference between crpg and rpg?

Here you go.

Depending on the context, there is no difference. If you are talking about computer gaming, then you can say either RPG or CRPG. However, if you are talking about pen and paper modules and such, then RPG is it obviously. Its really up to you! :thumbs:

 

[Sainku]

heh my link doesnt work anymore

the game was gothic 3

http://pc.ign.com/objects/726/726093.html


would someone PLEASE explain the difference between crpg and rpg?

A computer role-playing game I guess can only be played on a computer (or according to mortiz must meet an extremely specific criteria that makes him happy). An rpg can be played anywhere. I guess rpg is just a more general term.

 

[CptStern]

yes but that seems silly ...does that mean that SW:Kotor is a crpg on the pc and rpg on the xbox ..even though they're exactly the same game? the distinction is pretty much meaningless

 

[Sainku]

I think in this situation an xbox could be considered a computer.

Who were you talking to? I was saying the same thing as you.

Sorry, I thought I had quoted mortiz, I will correct it.

 

[CptStern]

AGHHH now I'm even more confused ...so where does that put fable? added chapters on pc make it a crpg but the added chapters are also on the xbox so that means it's also a crpg because technically an xbox is a computer ..what about Baldurs gate for ps2/xbox? is one a crpg and the other a rpg because the ps2 is less like a pc and more like a console, which isnt a pc but just acts like one?

 

[VictimOfScience]

the distinction is pretty much meaningless

Exactly. The difference only comes in handy for snobs who say CRPG as if it is somehow more glorious or worthy of heaps of praise (PC fanbys maybe?--but it depends on their definition of a computer then).

RPG does fine. It seems to be the newly adopted standard...I hope.

EDIT:

what about Baldurs gate for ps2/xbox? is one a crpg and the other a rpg because the ps2 is less like a pc and more like a console, which isnt a pc but just acts like one?

This gets more interesting here. BG: Dark Alliance is an RPG, but its always been labelled as an "action-RPG," which many people would have you believe is not a "true" RPG. Is it a CRPG? Dunno. I guess if its played on a piece of electronics that is capable of doing calculations, then yes, but it depends on your definition of a computer then too. This is unnecessarily complicated....

 

[Sainku]

AGHHH now I'm even more confused ...so where does that put fable? added chapters on pc make it a crpg but the added chapters are also on the xbox so that means it's also a crpg because technically an xbox is a computer ..what about Baldurs gate for ps2/xbox? is one a crpg and the other a rpg because the ps2 is less like a pc and more like a console, which isnt a pc but just acts like one?

I think all consoles can be considered computers when talking about CRPGS. Even if they aren't literally computers. This is just my own iterpretation though. It may just be a term some pc elitist made up and is now used to demean rpgs on consoles.

 

[VirusType2]

since nothing that you do outside of the main quest has any real affect on the events inside the game or the outcome of the game itself.

Actually, in Morrowind, if you kill main quest NPCs you will get a message saying something like, "You have killed a vital NPC to the storyline. The world is doomed. You can continue playing in this doomed world but you will not be able to finish the main quest" I assume the same could be done in Oblivion, but they may have decided to keep you from screwing up your character, since Oblivion auto-saves.

Oblivion takes about as much skill with a mouse as using windows xp. Way less then clicking all those shortcuts at the bottom of the UI in NWN. How does having combat skill based (Which I don't like saying, because the combat takes none) make it less of an rpg? Having to click to swing my sword in no way inhibits me from carrying out a role. You say oblivion is an action game with a stat system. One could say fallout is little but a turn-based strategy with a stat system. RPG is already used in the most unliteral sense to describe games like the popular final fantasy, how does oblivion stray any further you're definition of rpg than a game like that?


I doubt he would like that. The combat system just isn't crpg enough.

I wasn't really following the thread but...this topic interests me though. I know all of what I'm about to say is already known but I thought I would say it anyway for guys like Stern who don't really play RPG's.

OK you know those questionnaires where they ask you what kind of games you like and they usually give you choices like:

Action
Driving
Adventure
RPG
MMORPG
Strategy
Flight Sim

etc.

When I think of RPG I think of games like Final Fantasy, Morrowind, and Oblivion. These games have very large item lists, leveling up, and character stats like Strength, Agility, Dexterity, etc. The are really 2 types of RPG's. Turn based and Real-Time. Real time = Elder Scrolls and Turn-based is like Final Fantasy where you can sit in a menu for as long as you want and scroll through dozens of abilities. You take turns with the enemies using your magic and abilities in a strategic way. The enemy can't attack while you select your next move. With elder Oblivion and Morrowind the fighting takes place in real time. You can swing your weapon as fast as you can, dodge, run, cast your spells and the enemy will do the same. The only time that the action is frozen is if you go into the menu to select different spells, weapons, just about anything. But in oblivion you can assign hotkeys to your weapons and magic so that you don't have to pause the action to change magic all the time.

There are really 2 types of MMORPG's as well. Final fantasy MMORPG is turn based and games like Everquest, World of Warcraft, and Phantasy Star Online are real-time.

When I think of an Adventure game I think of games like Resident Evil, Zelda, Tomb Raider, Metal Gear. Like RPG's these games have an item menu but don't have the complex stats, leveling up, and enormous item lists like RPG's.

When I think of Action game I think of games like Max Payne, Doom 3 and HL-2 where there is no item menu, no stats to increase, no leveling up.


So which is better, Real-Time or Turn Based? Well thats up to you. While I have alot of fun playing a Final Fantasy game, it's quite slow and boring at times, and I'd much rather play a Real-Time RPG like Oblivion, where I'm required to actually fight instead of make executive decisions for my character/s by selecting what ability they will use next. But I also like Action games like Doom3 so that might be why I prefer Real-time RPG's. People that like Strategy games might prefer the turn based RPG's.

I'd have to say that character development, like deciding how to increase the power of your character is the single most interesting part of all RPG's in my opinion, and many games fall short on this part.

 

[VictimOfScience]

When I think of an Adventure game I think of games like Resident Evil, Zelda, Tomb Raider, Metal Gear. Like RPG's these games have an item menu but don't have the complex stats, leveling up, and enormous item lists like RPG's.

Maybe for consoles, but when I think of adventure games, I automatically think of games like Monkey Island, Day of the Tentacle, Sam & Max, King's Quest, Space Quest, The Longest Journey, etc. The titles you mention above are action-adventure because there just aren't that many true adventure games on consoles right now.

Of course, that is changing with games like Fahrenheit which incorporate action elements into the adventure (yes, Hero's Quest did that way back when too, coming close to a CRPG with the stats and character development). Even Psychonauts could be considered an action adventure on PC, but on consoles it would be a platformer. The distinctions and genres and subgenres are really getting convoluted and annoying, just as with music now too with 5000 different types of metal out there or loads of varying degrees of how emotional your punk is....

Oblivion actually reminds me of Hero's Quest (apart from the obvious technical differences) because that was one of the first games that I remember where you could practice a skill and it would go up accordingly, just as in Oblvivion.

 

[VirusType2]

Yea, and there are many hybrids and unique style games out there. Games that don't really fit into one category or another.

 

[boglito]

From a technical (mainly graphical) viewpoint it is the best game ever without a shred of doubt.
When it comes to gameplay mechanics, of which I am quite experienced, it has some very anoying flaws, the most obvious one being the leveling-system.

All in all I give it an 85%. I am impressed with the fact that oblivion has kept me from playing my usual games since I got it, but I am disappointed in the fact that oblivion, even though I haven't finished half of it yet, really makes me hunger for gothic 3.

I want a game with the technical capabilities, extensive world, and meele combat of oblivion (its 3 best features) coupled with rewarding game mechanics. Wizardry 8 is a game that is eerily similar to oblivion and that game really got game mechanics 100% right. Best rpg ever. Too bad they also had the worst pr-backing ever, which ultimately led to the developer (sirtech) going bankrupt.

If you are curious as to which game mechanics I dislike here is an in no way complete list:
1. Leveling is generally unrewarding, and fast leveling equals incredibly hard fights. You can play the game without leveling much, but a lot of stuff is level-restricted, so you don't really want that either. My solution to this? I made a pure fighter with only blade and heavy armor as major combat skills and powerleveled (+5 in three stats every levelup) 7 times before I started playing normal. Athletics/Blade/Heavy armor/Illusion/Mercantile/Security/Speechcraft = logical skill selectionl? No. Effective? Yes.
2. Spells, while getting more powerful, do _not_ get more effective as you switch from one low-level spell to a mid-level spell of same type. Example; one healing spell may heal 8 and cost 13. The next healing spell may heal 25 and cost 53 (numbers are not 100% accurate and just used to illustrate, but they are close).
3. In general stats seem to not do much for your character (unless you powerlevel). For example, raising int by 3 (a typical number for a low-level non-powerleveling mage) will earn you a total of 6 magicka. 6.
4. Spells seem to require an extreme amount of magicka. 100intelligence nets you 200 magicka (this is by no means a maximum, but I mention is since one would think 100int should mean lots of spellcasting possible). A healing spell that heals 25 costs approx 50.
5. When you get expert skill in achemy making potions casually actually gets harder because with all 4 effects of ingredients available there will be a lot of poison+potion combos, and poison+potion is always self use. For example, where at journeyman skill you could make a fire damage/health damage poison on expert skill the same combination of ingredients might be fire damage/health damage/restore fatigue, which is useless unless you want to suicide. An option to choose wether you want to make a poison or a potion would solve this issue almost completely.
6. The UI must be improved. The BTmod fixes some issues, but selling and buying lots of stuff is still very cumbersome, also not being able to tell which obliviongates marked on the map have been closed and which are open is a tad anoying.

.bog.

ps. There may be factual errors in this post, and if there are, you are free to point them out in an amiable fashion, but you are not free to be an arse about it.

 

[Gargantou]

it seems to me that you're saying that the combat in oblivion (hack and slash) is what prevents it from being a true rpg, but I think that's inappropriate ..I dont see why an rpg MUST have turned based combat ..role playing means role playing, it doesnt matter what device they choose to implement so long as the game allows you to "role play". Pausing the game to set up your combat stance/attack combo etc breaks the immersion for me ..now we're playing/controlling with puppets/avatars not role playing. I have no problem suspending my disbelief and immersing myself in the world of oblvion ..pausing the game to handle my party/stats/buffs etc breaks immersion for me ..I'd rather just leap into the fray and let my skill do the work for me


When I'm in oblivion I extend some of myself into the world ...like last night, I broke into a house in the middle of the night to do some thievery, I was spotted by the house owner who began to yell at me, so I silenced him so as to not alert the guards: that's role playing, I knew in the back of my mind that I was dealing with a virtual character and that his yelling had no real consequences (he has to leave the house in order to alert the guards) but my mind suspended disbelief for that moment and I acted accordingly and now there's a lifeless body in a shack in chorrol ...having a few more random stats or ties to the world as a whole wouldnt have made it all that much more immersive for me

Actually no, I like the combat a bit more, albeit some things I have some imo good ideas for.
What I however do not like, is the leveled enemies+loot system, which they said themselves they "borrowed" the idea from Diablo games, which imo atleast is a hack'n'slash series.

Oh, one combat idea I have.
For blocking with shields, how about having it like these, taking hits with shield decreases your stamina quite a bit depending on your skill with blocking, each time the stamina reachers 10% there's a 50% chance that grows larger each time, that your shield will fly away(You'll loose your grip of it because you're exhausted).