I didn't download the beta because...

[HeatherSweet]

You should have put an option that states you did download the beta. It would have made the thread more interesting, and would have given the community more feedback.
As for me, I downloaded it, played it for two days, and haven't touched it since. Not really that good, for a beta.


-Coma

 

[The Mullinator]

Kiro,

Being curious doesn't justify doing something illegal and assisting the spread of the "beta". I think people are forgetting that this whole situation did not come about from some warez guy buying the full game and then releasing it for download. This version that you people have on your harddrive is the result of a hacker stealing it from Valve's computers, and causing Valve much more pain than what other companies usually go through. Valve IS a special case to us because we are on a HL2 website.

In case you have forgotten it was not just a playable version of the game that was stolen, it was the source code as well. That part of the stolen package is what people are more against, that most likely WILL have negative effects on us gamers. The beta is just something to get upset about, the source code is something to worry about. Now are you going to say that it is alright to download the source code as well?

Why do we expect HL fans to be "holier" than fans for other forms of media? Well the thing is we don't, this is not an Eminem fansite, this is not a Matrix fansite, its a HL2 fan site. Therefor we talk about HL2. I don't think anyone here has said that it is okay to download one of the Matrix movies but not the HL2 "beta".

Nothing you say to me can justify downloading the illegal files in my mind, and I am pretty certain that nothing I say can convince you to not download the illegal files. This makes this whole argument pointless, no matter what either side says the only thing that will change is that both sides will become more entrenched in their views.

 

[poseyjmac]

Originally posted by The Mullinator
Kiro,

Being curious doesn't justify doing something illegal and assisting the spread of the "beta". I think people are forgetting that this whole situation did not come about from some warez guy buying the full game and then releasing it for download. This version that you people have on your harddrive is the result of a hacker stealing it from Valve's computers, and causing Valve much more pain than what other companies usually go through. Valve IS a special case to us because we are on a HL2 website.

In case you have forgotten it was not just a playable version of the game that was stolen, it was the source code as well. That part of the stolen package is what people are more against, that most likely WILL have negative effects on us gamers. The beta is just something to get upset about, the source code is something to worry about. Now are you going to say that it is alright to download the source code as well?

Why do we expect HL fans to be "holier" than fans for other forms of media? Well the thing is we don't, this is not an Eminem fansite, this is not a Matrix fansite, its a HL2 fan site. Therefor we talk about HL2. I don't think anyone here has said that it is okay to download one of the Matrix movies but not the HL2 "beta".

Nothing you say to me can justify downloading the illegal files in my mind, and I am pretty certain that nothing I say can convince you to not download the illegal files. This makes this whole argument pointless, no matter what either side says the only thing that will change is that both sides will become more entrenched in their views.

the only thing im attacking in peoples post is when they say that people who download the beta are tangiblly affecting valve financially. this ISNT TRUE, and is PROVEN EASILY. now since this is the case, all thats left for goody two shoes members to do is guilt trip those who downloaded the beta for no reason, the majority of which do it because they are jealous they can't get the beta cause they dont have the means. what a great mask for moral chilvarly.

even though the beta is stolen, its actually better for valve that people download the beta than the full game. some of you cant get it through yoru head, that for every download of the beta that occurs, valve isn't affected one bit. that can't be said for downloading the full version. so downloading the beta doesn't warrant all the guilt-tripping that is going on here. people say they care about valve so much, and that each download of the beta is like a dagger in their side, false false false. thats just a cop-out. get back into the real world please

 

[badall]

i don't download leaked betas anymore since i downloaded unreal tourney 2k3 that really ruined it for me when i eventaully bought it, so never again after that

 

[Non-Sequitur]

Originally posted by badall
i don't download leaked betas anymore since i downloaded unreal tourney 2k3 that really ruined it for me when i eventaully bought it, so never again after that

Did it ruin the storyline for you? *s*******
Or perhaps it was just a crap game?

Edit: I just realised that you get censored for the word "sn-igger"... I didn't even think about the word "n-igger" when writing that... What great censorship - it actually brings the word that you're not supposed to see to your attention.

 

[Kadayi]

Originally posted by Chris_D
Is H&D2 any good?

Well I'm still playing through the original atm (fileplanet have it for free download if you've never played it 284 meg or so), as I wanted to finish off that before tackling the sequel. Although it's a bit buggy, I've been impressed enough with that to invest in the sequel.

However, I had a brief look at the training level and first level. Certainly it is a lot more polished than the original. They have used an improved version of the engine that they used for mafia to power the game, so for atmospherics I put it up with the CoD demo. They have also incorporated the vehicle physics from mafia, and there are supposed to be 20 vehicles that can be commandeered including bikes, volkswagons and tanks. The interface has been lifted from mafia also, but refined accordingly for issuing team orders. You can still flip between first and third person views though.

 

[pinion]

5 years ago, Valve made the most entertaining video game I have ever played. It changed all of our lives and held that special place in our hearts, lmao.. but how do I repay them? By not ****ing them in the ass. I am waiting for this to be official. Not downloading any crap some hacker makes... I respect Valve, and I will buy HL2 when it hits shelves.

 

[James Isaac]

I didn't download it because:

1) I respect valve, and know how much work they have put into the game, and I am goign to support them
2) I would want to have thebest expirience of HL2
3) It's illegal

 

[poseyjmac]

still waiting for someone to tell me how valve is tangibly affected by each download of the beta...

 

[Sicton]

I'm buying a new PC for the Half-Life 2 experience to be absolutely breathtaking as it should be. I'm not prepared to play and kind of unfinished source before the game before is released properly because you just aren't going to get the experience which was intended and it will spoil the experience you can expect later on.

True fans and gamers wouldn't download the beta... it's about being able to appreciate the final product in full. By playing through unfinished levels in a beta, I'm pretty sure it would destroy the atmosphere when playing the full game.

 

[SpaceLord]

this poll is kinda one-sided which sucks!
better luck next time numbass

 

[The Mullinator]

Originally posted by poseyjmac
still waiting for someone to tell me how valve is tangibly affected by each download of the beta...

The majority of people know that Valve is not tangibly affected in any way. Valve doesn't lose any money and they don't lose any future customers. Never the less it is still an insult to Valve, that is what people are trying to say. Whether you are a fan or not you should at least understand that the "beta" was aquired through very morraly wrong and illegal means, Valve has given us one of the greatest games ever created and now by downloading the beta it is like you are adding insult to injury, if you can't understand that you can affect Valve in more ways than just financially then I doubt you will agree with everything I have just said.

Oh and SpaceLord, the reason this poll is one sided is because it is directed to those people who DIDN'T download the beta, if you had cared to look you would find many other polls out there that were not directed to just those people.

 

[uncle-argyle]

Why I didnt

I didnt download the beta becuase I had the source code.So I just compiled my own beta

 

[himself]

first of all, i never deleted the sourc-code or the beta, just because i want to fully enjoy HL2 when it comes out and i dont want to destroy the feeling of playing it the first time with a crappy beta...

source code didnt interest me anyway, i dont care.

im happy i didnt dl src/beta. its better.

 

[alco]

Re: Why I didnt

Originally posted by uncle-argyle
I didnt download the beta becuase I had the source code.So I just compiled my own beta

You make your own models & maps, too? :dozey:

 

[jat]

TBH i would download it if:
I had nothing else to do and i was bored out of my skull and i was gonna die tommorrow.

So since that aint happening ill just leave it and let some poor soul get a copy and realise that hes let someone in to screw up his pc. I dont have a problem having other peeps downloading the thing, I wouldnt stop em, since whatever comes with it, may it be a virus, a trojan or something that gets the person bank account number and password, is their problem. They have been warned millions time before and its so funny when they say they dont have it but they ask for certian things about it!


Lets leave it at that....

 

[poseyjmac]

*cough*paranoid*cough*

 

[MultiVaC]

Originally posted by poseyjmac
*cough*paranoid*cough*

Who cares? It's best if he never gets the beta, stop acting like you want him to. You have the beta, fine, just keep it to yourself.

 

[poseyjmac]

i never said i had the beta, and im not acting like i want him to. its just people dont download the hl2 beta for the wrong reasons. and i like to let them know they are wrong.

 

[NYHoustonman]

Originally posted by poseyjmac
still waiting for someone to tell me how valve is tangibly affected by each download of the beta...

still waiting for someone to tell me how the environment is tangibly affected by each driver of an SUV...Same type of thing. Both are wrong, but people have this attitude that they don't matter, it's the whole...

 

[poseyjmac]

Originally posted by NYHoustonman
still waiting for someone to tell me how the environment is tangibly affected by each driver of an SUV...Same type of thing. Both are wrong, but people have this attitude that they don't matter, it's the whole...

your analogy will be valid if you can tell me what the actual emissions are of halflife2 in comparison. cause i can tell you what the emissions of an SUV are made of.

 

[Washuu]

such a popular thread, i think it should be stickied for awhile.

 

[Hadoken]

I didn't download the 'beta' cause I was rather outraged that some 'fans' would actually be big enough jackasses to do something like steal the source code. That and it never occured to me to download it.

 

[ASnogarD]

I think it has been pointed out already but I'll restate it anyways.

If merely a already compiled 'Alpha' had been leaked, like Doom 3 , it wouldn't be so bad, but as the source was also taken and the 'beta' created from that, it harms Valve immensely in that the Source engine will no longer be sought after due to potential security issues. Some companies can also utilize the source code to ‘create’ their own engine, why bother with leasing it. I believe Valve were counting on the revenue generated from leasing the Source engine out more than the revenue HL 2 will bring in.

I didn’t download it because, quiet frankly I wasn’t interested. I will download a Valve sanctioned demo because the demo would be set up to entertain me, whereas the ‘beta’ was never intended to be in the player hands and thus was not structured to entertain.
I consider the scenario similar to obtaining the editors clips to the new Matrix, bits and pieces of unedited film slapped together by amateurs would not make an entertaining film, similarly bits and pieces of code compiled by a non game designing professional would not make an entertaining gaming experience.

LOL I am very surprised this thread got so many responses, I half imagined it would get a ‘headcrabs shouldn’t be allowed to post new topics’ response.

 

[-GetzOwned-]

I haven't bothered with either Doom3 Leaked Alpha or the HL2 because I don't want to ruin the experience, once the game is finaly released. Kind of like the sme reason I don't like to watch movies I'm interested in seeing, after it has started. I only like to watch them from the begining.

 

[A2597]

Not going to DL it. I want the full game ONLY.

and being on 56K helps aid in resisting temptation.

 

[mortiz]

I didn't download it because I really have no interest in a buggy out of date build of HL-2.

TBH I'm loosing interest in HL-2 all-to-gether at the moment, I really never thought I would be laughing at Valve, but they have really been screwed, it's partly their fault, partly not.

 

[Ale$ki]

in my opinion it would have been better, if the whole thing bout the leakin` wasn`t hyped so much... i want teh game...and a statement from valve givin`us attention!

 

[KaneRobot]

There needs to be and "I dunno, I just didn't feel like it" option. That's pretty much my reason.

 

[Plague]

Even though I d/led the beta, and played it, it still wasnt that good. Modles were missing, scripts were broken, the AI sucked, and I didnt even get to play in city 17. The beta was a jip, and now sence HL2 got pushed back to April, im looking foward to Doom 3 more now.

 

[Hallucinogen]

I downloaded it because I wanted to.

 

[ISS]

None of the above. I simply don't like running unpolished code on my machine and steer clear from alpha, beta and other unreleased software. Simple as that.

 

[alanschu]

Originally posted by poseyjmac
no hes right. there is no tangible loss for anyone by downloading the beta. if anything it will give valve more profits, because once people play it they are stoked about what they see, knowing its still beta but very promising.

Except for all of the public defamation coming from people making assumptions from the beta and applying them to the final version of the game. Just take a look at how many threads and posts there are of people bashing Valve's software engineer's credibility and talent. But I suppose you don't consider that to be "tangible" loss. Besides, morals have much more to do with beliefs than considering the financial costs of something. My original statement was still correct. Anyone that does download the beta implicitly supports the actions of the hacker, and therefore encourages hackers (or crackers if you're nitpicking) in the future to continue this kind of behaviour.

On a final note, any speculation about potential loss is just that....speculation. Stating that it will help Valve by being advertising is as asinine as saying software piracy helps software developers because it gives people who would not buy the game a chance to play it and buy it (not that you were saying this however....just an example). Unless you can empircally prove to me that this is true, then it is simply an anecdote (and not a good one because it is based on speculation). If everyone is all geeked up about Half-Life 2 now that the beta is out, how come there are so many posts and threads ridiculing Valve for the poor quality of the beta???

this whole moral issue is something people are dreaming up in their head to fool themselves into thinking they are being chilvalrous for valve. now if you talk about software piracy of a released product, then this moral issue has tangible impact. and ive said it before, the only tangible impact we have on valve(besides the hacker) is giving our $$$ when the time comes hl2 to be on shelves/steam. until that time comes you and downloaders of the hl2 beta are NO different to valve.

Morals are subjective. Simply because you do not share the same moral as someone else, does not make it is so. Morals (although ethics is probably a better term) stretch far beyond money, which you seem intent on relating it to. If someone believes that performing an action is wrong enough not to do it, cost is completely irrelevant. Otherwise people WOULD download the beta, by your own accord (it's free, and does not damage Valve). As stated earlier, people with a very strong moral about illegally infiltrating another business' network and stealing their proprietary source code (regardless of whether or not Valve should have protected it more....that point is irrelevant), will likely not download the beta as a statement of their own beliefs (and generally for themselves, not for Valve or anyone else).

As for it not having any value to Valve, I'm sure that Valve would much rather not have people out there that have unrestricted access to their source code (for proprietary reasons). I'm sure they would also have much rathered people did not throw around accusations about their credibility when examining how the beta works, especially considering we do not know how old the beta is.

Value comes in so many forms other than money.


On a side note, if something like this truly had no value for Valve, why wouldn't companies everywhere release betas and alphas of their games? After all, there is no loss at all. In fact, according to you, there's only potential gain.

 

[alanschu]

Originally posted by Dolphin's Eye
Ok, and I think that ain't really us that ValvE wanna track, cos we're only poor users and dlers, but their're looking for the hackers! Cos that's their falt if HL2 is leaked, not our falt, isn't it?

True, but the attention and the downloading of leaked software is what causes hackers to perform the deed.

If absolutely no one gave a crap about a Half-Life beta, would the hacker still have made one?

 

[alanschu]

Originally posted by poseyjmac
all thats left for goody two shoes members to do is guilt trip those who downloaded the beta for no reason, the majority of which do it because they are jealous they can't get the beta cause they dont have the means. what a great mask for moral chilvarly.

This statement is complete speculation. It has as much proof as people saying downloading the beta financially hurts Valve.

[/B]even though the beta is stolen, its actually better for valve that people download the beta than the full game. some of you cant get it through yoru head, that for every download of the beta that occurs, valve isn't affected one bit.[/B]

You are assuming that every download of the beta is simply to play with the game.

get back into the real world please

And in the real world there are those that can greatly profit from the knowledge gained from this beta, all at Valve's expense. Since you like to analyze cost so much, examine the opportunity costs of looking at Valve's source code compared to designing it for yourself from scratch.

 

[alanschu]

Originally posted by poseyjmac
still waiting for someone to tell me how valve is tangibly affected by each download of the beta...

Tangably affected does not correlate specifically with transfer of cash. While I have not seen the beta, so I do not know exactly what is in there, but I have heard that there is information regarding Steam in there. Since Steam will be storing and retrieving credit card information, Valve will have to rework the Steam code to prevent unauthorized access to this information. This takes both time and money, two tangible side-effects.

 

[Sniperdoc]

Heh... it's funny... you people don't even realize that source code is all that dumba$$ hackers need to create hacks for a game. So... for all you people out there saying, "It ain't so bad?!"... hope you'll still be saying it when HL2 ends up just like Hackerst... I mean Counterstrike.

So instead of having a few months of hack-free playing, now we'll have hacks straight off the bat. I was a HUGE fan of HL multiplayer and Counterstrike... And I was definitely looking forward to the MP aspect of HL2, but I guess that's gonna be kind of pointless... everyone and their mother will have wallhacks and aimbots galore... Enjoy fellas... enjoy.

As far as those folks saying it was Valve's fault... due to WHAT?!?!? Because they wanted to make sure the game was working properly and didn't have any bugs?! I know plenty of developers out on the market that don't take the time to make sure something is running the way it should. And the fact that Valve wanted to take the time to do that, and have some a$$hole rip them off and do a disservice to the Half-life community, is a big letdown to everyone. The self-motivated morons that have downloaded the source/beta have also done a big disservice to Valve and the development team.

Amazing, how people can quantify that "Valve had it coming..." Stupid... just plain dumb...

 

[Sgt.Zen]

i dunno y i havent touched it normaly i get my hands all over this kind of stuff but just never felt like spoiling half life

 

[poseyjmac]

Originally posted by alanschu
Except for all of the public defamation coming from people making assumptions from the beta and applying them to the final version of the game. Just take a look at how many threads and posts there are of people bashing Valve's software engineer's credibility and talent. But I suppose you don't consider that to be "tangible" loss. Besides, morals have much more to do with beliefs than considering the financial costs of something. My original statement was still correct. Anyone that does download the beta implicitly supports the actions of the hacker, and therefore encourages hackers (or crackers if you're nitpicking) in the future to continue this kind of behaviour.

On a final note, any speculation about potential loss is just that....speculation. Stating that it will help Valve by being advertising is as asinine as saying software piracy helps software developers because it gives people who would not buy the game a chance to play it and buy it (not that you were saying this however....just an example). Unless you can empircally prove to me that this is true, then it is simply an anecdote (and not a good one because it is based on speculation). If everyone is all geeked up about Half-Life 2 now that the beta is out, how come there are so many posts and threads ridiculing Valve for the poor quality of the beta???



Morals are subjective. Simply because you do not share the same moral as someone else, does not make it is so. Morals (although ethics is probably a better term) stretch far beyond money, which you seem intent on relating it to. If someone believes that performing an action is wrong enough not to do it, cost is completely irrelevant. Otherwise people WOULD download the beta, by your own accord (it's free, and does not damage Valve). As stated earlier, people with a very strong moral about illegally infiltrating another business' network and stealing their proprietary source code (regardless of whether or not Valve should have protected it more....that point is irrelevant), will likely not download the beta as a statement of their own beliefs (and generally for themselves, not for Valve or anyone else).

As for it not having any value to Valve, I'm sure that Valve would much rather not have people out there that have unrestricted access to their source code (for proprietary reasons). I'm sure they would also have much rathered people did not throw around accusations about their credibility when examining how the beta works, especially considering we do not know how old the beta is.

Value comes in so many forms other than money.


On a side note, if something like this truly had no value for Valve, why wouldn't companies everywhere release betas and alphas of their games? After all, there is no loss at all. In fact, according to you, there's only potential gain.

do you think the majority of the people who download the beta and try it out say "this sucks, im not going to buy halflife2!". anyway in your first paragraph you are trying to say the population who thinks this way is bigger than it actually is. but most people know(whether they rant about it on a forum or not) that a beta is incomplete and that the store final will be much better. its only logical. so you can't convince me that valve will have a financial loss here because of the beta, unless you are referring to the people with down-syndrome who are gamers and dont know the difference between a beta and a final version.

next, you say that a flame from some kid on an unofficial hl2 forum directed toward a valve employee is a tangible loss for valve...

....


"something about valve taking tangible offense to what people say"

um. yeah, i really dont have to say anything about that, except that it made me laugh out loud, but if you think valve employees really take to heart what is said on these forums by the immature kids who flame that dont know that a beta is a work in progress, you really need to get a reality check. i bet valve laughs at these idiots if they ever DO come on these forums.

about the beta not working as advertising.. comparing it to a full released game and pirating that, now THATS asinine. ive heard several reports of people showing their friends the beta and 2 or 3 of them went and preordered hl2. same thing happened with me and one of my friends so far. we were sort of unsure about hl2, cause of all the new games coming out, this beta sealed the deal for us after finding out how much potential the game has. now that is proof, well unless you want it beyond a shadow of doubt. which i can get phone numbers and you can get statements from them. how bout them apples?

and as much as you like to think people who download the beta have no morals and are just evil people. i do have morals. but i dont hold onto useless morals, only ones that can affect other beings. you can hold onto your moral that somehow you are doing good by not downloading the beta and your reward is a good conscience, thats exactly how many religious nuts are, they do pointless things to feel good about themselves without logically thinking it through for the rest of their life till they die, but my conscience is clean, because my action of downloading the beta hasn't affected anyone negatively, but on the contrary.

 

[poseyjmac]

Originally posted by alanschu
Tangably affected does not correlate specifically with transfer of cash. While I have not seen the beta, so I do not know exactly what is in there, but I have heard that there is information regarding Steam in there. Since Steam will be storing and retrieving credit card information, Valve will have to rework the Steam code to prevent unauthorized access to this information. This takes both time and money, two tangible side-effects.

duh. there are plenty of tangible side effects for what the hacker has done. im talking about downloading the beta. lemme put it in laymens terms.

joeshmoe downloads a copy of hl2 beta.

explain in this situation some negative tangible side effects(that would happen in THIS reality)