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-Viper- said:All a mirror is is a brush with a camera in the dead center of one side with the surface of that side displaying what the camera sees.
in the test hardware map in CS:S, I moved the TV that shows the flame room into the flame room.f|uke said:You'd be invisable. Theres no model for Gordon in memory unless you put one there.
I think Gordon should at least have a body.
So it isn't a matter of philosophy,.ukfluke said:Valve said it wouldnt do the reflection thing with gordon becuase it doesnt work too well.
Rafael said:You can't see your arms when driving because you have free view. You would see the arms floating when turning the camera to the sides or down, so to make it look good they should attach the arms to a body, but then you would be seeing your entire body when driving, but not when looking down while you are walking or dying. That would look weirder than not seeing your hands while driving, wouldn't it? It's like, 'hey, I grow a body'.
urseus said:Exactly. Valve seem to think that not seeing the characters body is imersive. This is wrong. Being ingame and looking down, i want to see my characters shoulders and feet, because i am that character. Its like going to a facy dress party, you have to look and feel the part. I mean looking down while im playing the game and not seeing it pulls me out of the game to reality where im a guy at a keyboard. When im immersed in a game like say thief, i am the character in old england, thus when i look around i have the arms and feet of that character. Thats why flashpoint was so engrossing, because when you died your head slumped to the side and you saw your arm drop over your body etc. Much more immersive that Gordens floating camera-head of death.
ukfluke said:I mean look at D3 you can go into the toilets and look at yourself but it really sucks it just seems like ur watching a little model not actually seeing ur own reflection...
Malarkee said:you can't have real reflective mirrors in a game, theres no such technology thats even conceivable.
Absinthe said:HOW MANY TIMES DO I NEED TO EXPLAIN THIS CRAP TO YOU PEOPLE.
Matthias said:I, personally, would feel more immersed in the game if I saw my own relflection occasionally. It would feel like I had a physical presence, in the computer. Just like if I saw my hands and feet, I could imagine that I had a virtual body.
If I were running away from the combine past a mirror I wouldn't notice that my reflection didn't appear to be scared. I would be concetrating on other things. I would notice a dark shape passing by the mirror, giving me the impresson that i'm really moving through the corridoor.
The whole point about gordon talking is that would be an involenary action, you could contol what he says. That ruins the feeling of being Gordon. Seeing your reflection is different, it moves when you do, you are in control of it.
mannyfresh027 said:there are real reflections. just look at the water effects and shading like that. of course there will be mirrors, they just didnt want to take a performance hit just for putting a litle reflective scope on the sniper.
You never saw gordan in the last HL game. . . .why is it such a big deal.
What if you manage to kill the Combine, giving you a chance to look at yourself? What if you quicksave before you go around that corner, just so you can get a good look at yourself before you die? Well, that could be a bit of an issue.
urseus said:Thats why flashpoint was so engrossing, because when you died your head slumped to the side and you saw your arm drop over your body etc. Much more immersive that Gordens floating camera-head of death.
She said:You know.. HL2 has a ""special" face animation engine...
Alyx can:
look suprised.. scared..Bored, angry, happy, smiling, blahblah..
G-man.. the same...
VoodooMinigeek said:Word up! Not many people remember or even know about Flashpoint these days! Cheers mate! :cheers:
Some co-workers and myself still fire up Operation Flashpoint multiplayer once in a while. Good times.
Absinthe said:You're actually just supporting my position as to why the nonexistence of mirrors isn't even an issue. You just said that you'd be busy concentrating on other things than the mirror. So why bother with it at all?
Absinthe said:Your arguments for the existence of mirrors seem weak to me. You want a physical presence, but the game allows you to interact with a variety of environments and characters. You want to be in control, but you're moving your character around using arrow keys, aiming him with a mouse, and firing off rounds with a click of a button. Are these not proof enough that you are (in the game world, of course) a physical living entity?
"you're", not "your".Minerel said:Look valve wants it to be like "Your in the game". They want you to feel like your right there not some character model made up by polygons. But YOU.
Adding reflections screws it up because then you arn't seeing you, your seeing someone else...
Matthias said:You bother because it's the subtle things that maybe you only perceive subconciously that really add to the atmosphere of a game, background noises or subtle mood music. Perhaps not great big mirrors everywhere, but seeing a dark shape reflected in the water as you walked past, or as you approach a shiny surface (I was using the term mirror to mean anything reflective). You see yourself reflected all the time in the real world, you just don't notice it.
My point wasn't that character reflections should be present in HL2 (that wasn't particularly clear), just that in principal seeing your character reflected doesn't (in my opinion) ruin the immersion of the game in fact I believe it adds to it. I agree that the technology isn't advanced enough to pull it off just yet.
I just think a few reflections would add to the impression. That's all.
Absinthe said:HOW MANY TIMES DO I NEED TO EXPLAIN THIS CRAP TO YOU PEOPLE.
Seeing your reflection loses immersion because all you're seeing is a player model with the appropriate movement animations for each key you press. This player model cannot display the fear, amusement, concern, or anger that you may feel as a player. You would lose the very things that create immersion.
For instance, what if you were running down a hallway from Combine forces, scared out of your wits. You turn the corner and are faced with a mirror. You, the player are scared. The player model is... staring at you. Blankly, I might add. He isn't quivering in the knees. He isn't gasping for air. His body language doesn't convey what you are feeling. It's stupid it ruins the immersion.
Gordon is an empty shell that you fill in.
He is not a fleshed-out character.
If they wanted to make him a proper character, then they'd supply with with mannerisms, a voice, and possibly even a 3rd person look at yourself. Hell, even so much as a grunt can give a player an idea as to what kind of role they're playing. The beauty of Half-Life is that you define the character by the way you play.
Now, does this have its limitations? Well, of course it does. Gordon needs to be a guy for the sake of convenience. You need to have hands in the player weapon models, otherwise it looks retarded. But these are acceptable limitations. And if you're going to lose sleep over it, then I suggest you chill out and grab an otter pop.