I figured out why Gabe doesn't post here anymore

[Link]

Ahem, preorders.

Ahem, preorder money stays with the company you pre-order with

When they make a deadline, then break it, they owe us an explanation. It really isnt that big of a deal.

No, actually, they don't. You may like one (I would to tbh), it may make sense for them to give us one, but they do not owe us one.

*Draw circle. Bang head here...

 

[seinfeldrules]

Have you seen most of the posts in these forums btw?

Yes, I would say 75% of the people are morons who cannot go a post without swearing or using a semi-form of english. That stuff I understand getting upset about.

"OMG those ppl in Valve broke there promise to u and me!!!11" = lame. Post your objections in a readable fashion.

Unless your customers are idiots. Then nobody wants to do it

Oh boy, you sure are right about that one...

 

[seinfeldrules]

No, actually, they don't. You may like one (I would to tbh), it may make sense for them to give us one, but they do not owe us one.

Again, as a company they owe it to give us a little bit of information if they want to stay in business. Im not saying it will hurt the sales of HL2 too much, but it could cause some effect. People will give up on HL2 (the average gamer) and move onto Doom 3, STALKER, Far Cry, or other games with no information as to what is going on in HL2 land.

 

[seinfeldrules]

A great quote from the valvefans article.

Many people have stated that we should just stop complaining since Valve don’t owe us anything; but I think that is quite a naive way to look at the situation. Huge communities have built up on the internet; they discuss mods, map making, game characters and many other features about Valve games. In fact some employees – such as Gabe Newell and Doug Lombardi -- have become minor celebrities in certain circles. All this helps to prop up the company, gives them huge amount of free publicity and keeps the fans loyal; but when they are, on the one hand, treated with open arms from Valve, and the next minute are left in the cold wondering what is going on it is not a nice way to treat your fans.

 

[Logic]

If they want me to buy the product they owe me respect.

1. You will buy it anyway, am I right?

2. Even if those are the conditions on which you'll buy the game, they don't owe you anything. They don't even owe us HL2. They don't owe us the option to buy the game. It's their game, they could complete the game and not release it if they decided to. To think that they actually OWE you something is very arrogant. They owe you NOTHING, and you owe them the same.

The only time they owe you ANYTHING is when you purchase the game, and even then, the only thing they owe you is HL2, be it boxed, or as a download.

Edit: and this is all under the assumption that they have no respect for us anyway.

 

[seinfeldrules]

1. You will buy it anyway, am I right?

Personally? Yes, will many others out there? Questionable. (warez)

2. Even if those are the conditions on which you'll buy the game, they don't owe you anything. They don't even owe us HL2. They don't owe us the option to buy the game. It's their game, they could complete the game and not release it if they decided to. To think that they actually OWE you something is very arrogant. They owe you NOTHING, and you owe them the same.

Are we talking about a company here, or a mod team? I dont think its arrogant at all to expect an update or two over a product I will spend money on. What is arrogant is to release a date, then break it without so much as a whisper.

 

[John Romero]

I believe it's because Gabe is a gutless coward, (though not literally gutless for sure) and the folks participating on that other site are mindless sheep. :O That's right, I said it. :flame:

I believe its because these forums are full of retards who whine about stupid things like preloads of hl2 textures and start the same retarded threads over and over.

 

[Logic]

Are we talking about a company here, or a mod team? I dont think its arrogant at all to expect an update or two over a product I will spend money on. What is arrogant is to release a date, then break it without so much as a whisper.

Again, you only assume arrogance is the reason for Valve's silence. As I've said many times in the past, their PR certainly isn't perfect, but you surely don't believe that Valve are intentionally showing us disrespect whenever they are silent, or whenever they miss a deadline?

 

[seinfeldrules]

intentionally showing us disrespect whenever they are silent, or whenever they miss a deadline?

I believe they cannot relate to how the consumer feels over delays. They made that quite obvious. It may not be intentional, but it sure is rude.

 

[Logic]

I believe they cannot relate to how the consumer feels over delays. They made that quite obvious. It may not be intentional, but it sure is rude.

For it to be rude, it must be intentional. For example, I consider littering to be rude, but if someone's walking down the street and some rubbish falls out of their pocket, I'm not going to consider them rude for littering.

Valve owe us nothing. Thus far, what have they given us? Great videos, screenshots, and another great game to look forward to. What have we given them in return? A hard time. If anyone owes anyone anything, it's an apology, from people who spit abuse at Valve, to Valve themselves.

 

[Link]

^ To bloody right

Again, as a company they owe it to give us a little bit of information if they want to stay in business. Im not saying it will hurt the sales of HL2 too much, but it could cause some effect. People will give up on HL2 (the average gamer) and move onto Doom 3, STALKER, Far Cry, or other games with no information as to what is going on in HL2 land.

Are you even reading my posts, or just randomly quoting? You may want it, it may be sensible for them to give it us, but we are not owed it.

 

[seinfeldrules]

rude- Ill-mannered; discourteous

Never says anything about it being intentionally ill-mannered/discourteous.

What have they given us? Pretty much 2 videos (E3, E4) I believe all the binks were derived from those videos as well. Not to be an ass, but they have also given us an incredible delay followed up by a few other minor ones.

 

[seinfeldrules]

it may be sensible for them to give it us, but we are not owed it.

You seem to think that it is merely 'sensible' for them to give it to us. That is an utterly naive statement. It is impossible for them to survive as a company without releasing this game.

 

[seinfeldrules]

And I will again post this clip from the article because it fits in so perfectly with this discussion

Many people have stated that we should just stop complaining since Valve don’t owe us anything; but I think that is quite a naive way to look at the situation. Huge communities have built up on the internet; they discuss mods, map making, game characters and many other features about Valve games. In fact some employees – such as Gabe Newell and Doug Lombardi -- have become minor celebrities in certain circles. All this helps to prop up the company, gives them huge amount of free publicity and keeps the fans loyal; but when they are, on the one hand, treated with open arms from Valve, and the next minute are left in the cold wondering what is going on it is not a nice way to treat your fans.

 

[Logic]

rude- Ill-mannered; discourteous

Never says anything about it being intentionally ill-mannered/discourteous.

Intention is implied in the meaning. See my example - something that is rude, suddenly isn't if it's not done intentionally.

My point is, they don't have to give us anything, and that includes the promise of a great follow up to HL. We're lucky to have a game like HL2 to look forward to at all. We should be grateful for it.

 

[Link]

seinfeldrules - I meant they do not owe us info and accurate release information mate.

Your right, they have to realease to survive as a company, but they are within thier rights to cancel it if they chose to. (I know they won't, just illistrating a point)

*edit - And what Logic said.

 

[Logic]

And I will again post this clip from the article because it fits in so perfectly with this discussion

It's not a great quote - a few gramatical errors aside, it fails in it's purpose: It doesn't demonstrate that Valve OWE us anything. Sorry.

Edit: I'll explain why. Every member of the fan community participates in it voluntarily. There is no condition that states "We agree to help you, Valve, by being an active fan community, on the condition that you OWE us respect, regular news...".

 

[seinfeldrules]

Intention is implied in the meaning. See my example - something that is rude, suddenly isn't if it's not done intentionally.

How about this. A kid grows up at home all his life and is taught one manner of doing things. He reaches the age of 18 and finally eats over his friend's house. Instead of using silverware, he uses his hands and doesnt close his mouth when chewing. It isnt intentional, but it sure would be rude.

 

[Mattigus]

I am proud to have you people here as my Brothers, and though there are those of you out there that will say I'm just whining, I can take it and dish it out so do your worst my brothers...at least you'll be showing some independant thinking.

You're brothers? Dude, this is an internet forum, not a damn cult. You need to get out more.

 

[Link]

How about this. A kid grows up at home all his life and is taught one manner of doing things. He reaches the age of 18 and finally eats over his friend's house. Instead of using silverware, he uses his hands and doesnt close his mouth when chewing. It isnt intentional, but it sure would be rude.

No, not rude, just a culture difference. You may think its rude, but its not.

Its all irrelivent, valve can be rude if they chose, its up to them. You can chose not to read thier press releases and not to buy their game, thats up to you. Beyond that, you have no rights to courtesy. Especially when you are discourtious to valve yourself.

 

[Logic]

How about this. A kid grows up at home all his life and is taught one manner of doing things. He reaches the age of 18 and finally eats over his friend's house. Instead of using silverware, he uses his hands and doesnt close his mouth when chewing. It isnt intentional, but it sure would be rude.

It's a reasonable point, but by the same reasoning, people who have grown up in different cultures or countries could be considered rude for their cultural differences. I stand by what I said, and even in this case, the kid can't be blamed for something he's not even aware of.

 

[mutt]

You mean people that don't like to be spit on? Yeah, maybe...

It's not about the preload, it's about following through with what he said he'd do, that's called integrity. If it doesn't bother you then you probably have none yourself.

why do u feel he owes u anything? u havent given him anything. i dont really feel spat on because of delays. u should just learn to accept it and shut up about it like most ppl on this board.

there is no need to make posts moaning about not having a game. untill u own the game valve can do what they like with it as far as delays.

i agree i get a little pissed about waiting so long, but now u can know what it is to want for once in your life.

 

[Logic]

No, not rude, just a culture difference. You may think its rude, but its not.

Its all irrelivent, valve can be rude if they chose, its up to them. You can chose not to read thier press releases and not to buy their game, thats up to you. Beyond that, you have no rights to courtesy. Especially when you are discourtious to valve yourself.

Agreed.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Well if he isnt rude, then how is the other kid rude for littering? You just disproved your own argument if you use your logic on it..

 

[seinfeldrules]

Beyond that, you have no rights to courtesy. Especially when you are discourtious to valve yourself.

So wait, you want me to be courteous to them, but they can be discourteous to me? Wow, seems a little hypocritical to me.

 

[Absinthe]

If anyone owes anyone anything, it's an apology, from people who spit abuse at Valve, to Valve themselves.

Following the same logic in which Valve owes us nothing, nobody owes them an apology.

 

[Logic]

Well if he isnt rude, then how is the other kid rude for littering? You just disproved your own argument if you use your logic on it..

Erm that was my point, he isn't rude for littering, because it's unintentional. A kid is disrespectful for littering if he\she does it consciously, and knowing that his\her mentors (parents\teachers) and the law dissaprove.

I haven't disproved my own argument at all, you seem to have misunderstood it.

 

[Logic]

Following the same logic in which Valve owes us nothing, nobody owes them an apology.

It's true that it's a stretch to say that anyone actually OWES them an apology. I'm sure my point was clear though.

Edit: and for the record, I think that calling someone a gutless coward, without knowing the person (just an example, there are plenty of other insults flying around) does warrant an apology, and that was my point.

 

[Absinthe]

Meh. I personally think Valve needs somebody to ride their ass. Ride it long and hard. If they neglect the community that made them what they are (regardless of their intention), then a shit storm is to be expected.

Do I agree with all the Valve-bashing? No, not really. But hopefully it will make them plan better when it comes to Half-Life 3.

 

[CR0M]

Oh hi Gabe

Yeah, isn't this thread great? heh heh heh yeah, i'm laughing like Homer too

 

[seinfeldrules]

Meh. I personally think Valve needs somebody to ride their ass. Ride it long and hard. If they neglect the community that made them what they are (regardless of their intention), then a shit storm is to be expected.

Agree 100%. There should be consequences to their actions so I think people who dont think they 'owe' it to us should just weather it out with Valve.

 

[Logic]

Agree 100%. There should be consequences to their actions so I think people who dont think they 'owe' it to us should just weather it out with Valve.

The thing is, these "consequences" don't affect Valve anyway. They'll sell plenty of copies of HL2, no matter how much complaining there is on a forum. All these "consequences" achieve, is getting people worked up, and filling forums with abusive posts. If you object to the way Valve operates, by all means protest by not buying the game, but we'll just see how effective such a protest is.

 

[mrchimp]

Ahem, preorders.



When they make a deadline, then break it, they owe us an explanation. It really isnt that big of a deal.

Valve havn't recieved any money from pre-orders, infact the chances are you havn't even given any money to the shop you pre-ordered it off. Shops normally charge you when they post the order, I'm sure I don't have to explain why.

Whether or not Valve owe dedicated fans anything is subjective, unless you look at it technicly then they don't. I havn't paid any money to Valve that concerns HL2 in anyway. I havn't paid for the product itself and I certainly havn't paid for information regarding it's developement. ATi voucher holders are owed a game and they will get it, they didn't pay for the game to be delivered to them on a certain date and they certainly didn't pay for information regarding that game.

However Valve have given us plenty of information on what is happening with HL2 and have released technicle info that is only of interest to a small percentage of the gameing population (therefor most alterior motives can be dismissed). They have answered thousands of e-mails which for all they know will only been seen by a couple of people. The Valve staff visit a wide range of HL2 fansites and some cases post exclusive information and media that could have been given to a commercial website or magazine.

Valve don't need to explain there delays because the answer isn't worth explaining, it will be either "It wasn't finnished", "There was a bug" or something was wrong with the server. Not only that, but they did actually mention why the preload didn't start when it was supposed to.

It was because the server was under too much strian from the VST and the original CSS download. Whether or not you believe them is your problem.

 

[Orange]

I can't imagine what would happen if Gabe posted.
Actually I can!
He posts a defense apology
then all hell breaks loose as the responses roll in.

 

[Spooky Barnes]

Has anyone heard of grammar and spell check! I don't expect it from "regulars" on forums, but a moderator from a website! It makes you look SO unprofessional. Sorry, Journalist major .

Valve is awesome! They can take all the time they need! I don't need an explanation for anything! It'll come out sooner or later and all these posts won't mean a thing! Awesome job Valve!!! Westside!!!

 

[subtlesnake]

I hardly think Valve are neglecting the community. They've been giving out increasingly more information over the last few weeks, directly informing the community as to the games progress. Should they have given an update on Monday? Perhaps, but ultimately their policy is to give out updates when they have something tangible. They didn't want to say "Sorry, we couldn't get out the preload, keep waiting" They wanted to say "We're shooting for tomorrow on this now".

But I think this issue is fairly trivial anyway. I mean what is the significance having a few textures and sounds on your hard drive? You'll have plenty of time to preload once the game goes gold anyway.

 

[Spooky Barnes]

Agree 100%. There should be consequences to their actions so I think people who dont think they 'owe' it to us should just weather it out with Valve.

I think its hilarious that people like this think their actually fans. I don't know a lot, but I do know more than most and if those people who I think I know more than most knew half of what I knew they wouldn't be bitchin' all the got damn time. How you like me now!!!

Consequences for their actions? What do you want? Them to be spanked after every delay. Gimme a frickin' break. You people really need to get a life or a girlfriend or both.

It’s coming out, sooner or later. Just hold on key'd! Valve'll holla back, you'll see dawg!

Rock n Roll

Spooky

 

[Spooky Barnes]

I hardly think Valve are neglecting the community. They've been giving out increasingly more information over the last few weeks, directly informing the community as to the games progress. Should they have given an update on Monday? Perhaps, but ultimately their policy is to give out updates when they have something tangible. They didn't want to say "Sorry, we couldn't get out the preload, keep waiting" They wanted to say "We're shooting for tomorrow on this now".

But I think this issue is fairly trivial anyway. I mean what is the significance having a few textures and sounds on your hard drive? You'll have plenty of time to preload once the game goes gold anyway.

That’s what I'm talkin' about dawg! Holla!!!

 

[Spooky Barnes]

You're brothers? Dude, this is an internet forum, not a damn cult. You need to get out more.

ROFL!!! That shit is funny as hell! Great reply to that! I didn't know what to say to that! I was cracking up when I read your response! That's what I'm talkin' about! LOL!

 

[Spooky Barnes]

How about this. A kid grows up at home all his life and is taught one manner of doing things. He reaches the age of 18 and finally eats over his friend's house. Instead of using silverware, he uses his hands and doesnt close his mouth when chewing. It isnt intentional, but it sure would be rude.

WTF?! LIFE... take a hit!!!