Id Software and Valve violating GPLs!

[Gargantou]

Hello, I just bought Wolfenstein 3D from Steam, and it came to my attention they're using DOSBox to play the game, now here's the deal, they've removed all help and config files, and any credit given to the DOSBox Team, they've also removed the GPL(General Public License), thus as fas as I know violating actual law.

I think this is a very poor thing to do, especially from a company like Valve and iD whom have been along so long, to use other peoples programs and not even give credit, not to mention violate the team by removing the GPL.

Now I'm thinking about posting this to the team if it hasn't come attention to them already.

I just wanted to post it here because I thought people should know that iD and Valve are together taking advantage of other peoples work without even giving them credit.

 

[bbson john]

We don't give credit to people from whom we stole work. We are birds of a feather so we don't care.











Joking, sue'em.

 

[Jintor]

Tell 'em first and see what happens.

But first seed the information all across the internets so everyone knows and you have a backup plan.

 

[L3adCannon]

Do I really care when I play the game? no

I`m sure some people do.

 

[Barnz]

Another evidence to destroy Valve.

 

[Tick]

oh god Valve must be the devil

 

[Gargantou]

Do I really care when I play the game? no

I`m sure some people do.

Please gtfo my thread kiddo.

You're obviously totally missing the point, this has nothing to do with caring when you play the game, this is about them taking other peoples work and violtaing an actual GPL license, i.e. basically they're taking another persons work and using it for their own profit and telling the creators to "**** off".

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Is it not more likely that they bought some kind of license?

 

[Steve]

Seriously, do you think that a company with so much invested in the independent software development sector as Valve would just blatantly strip someone of credit that way?

 

[Gargantou]

Is it not more likely that they bought some kind of license?

Nope, DOSBox creators themselves have on the official DOSBox forum in a thread regarding this stated that they were not in any way informed nor contacted by either Valve or iD regarding the usage off DOSBox on Steam, and they've also stated that files that aren't allowed to be removed according to the GPL license, such as COPYING.TXT(Which specifically relates to the usage of DOSBox with other software packages etc), thus violating the GPL license.

And Steve, I guess you're right, Valve's probably not to blame, this is probably iDs doing, but I do still feel that Valve should have checked this out before approving these games for distribution via Steam, because this definitely does not reflect upon them well in my opinion.

 

[Jintor]

You've informed them, right?

 

[Gargantou]

Yup, posted on the official Steam forums, if someone has a mail they suggest me to use I will gladly do that too.

 

[Kyorisu]

It was a very bad move by either ID or Valve and hopefully they'll remedy the situation quickly. Credit needs to be given to the dosbox guys. Thanks to dosbox I can play all the old TES games and a whole bunch of other awesome titles without having to use a dedicated VM or pull out and old Win 98 box.

Also I read the setup files have been removed? So basically your not even buying the full product, what a rip.

 

[Gargantou]

Correct Kyo, Setup files for the actual games have been removed.

 

[Kadayi]

Why not contact ID SfB, they probably adapted the stuff themselves for the Steam release.

I love the way to resolve something is apparently to ask everyone not to buy a game, rather than do the smart thing of contacting the parties involved, and finding out what really happened.

 

[Gargantou]

I'm don't want people to permanently boycot the games, but until they solve this, I promote them not to buy it.
And by the way, I have both contacted Valve via eMail, and via Steamsupport, but I have to go to a crab-dinner now so I can't contact id, but if anyone else is willing please do go ahead.

 

[bbson john]

Do I really care when I play the game? no

I`m sure some people do.

This guy has some point. We are just gamers and these legal stuff has nothing to do with us, since it won't affect our gameplay after all. If the people concerning, like the DOSBox Team you mentioned, don't feel alright, they'll sue Valve. It is really not our business. What we have to do is buy and play their games.

 

[Kadayi]

If the people concerning, like the DOSBox Team you mentioned, don't feel alright, they'll sue Valve.

For what? Emotional damages? Their product is given away free. At best and most likely, assuming the emulator is in fact theirs and not something Carmack knocked up himself between lunch and dinner they will get an acknowledgment.

 

[bbson john]

For what? Emotional damages? Their product is given away free. At best and most likely, assuming the emulator is in fact theirs and not something Carmack knocked up himself between lunch and dinner they will get an acknowledgment.

I said "IF"


You failed to get my point. And my point is that these stuffs are not gamers' business.

 

[Kyorisu]

But ID know about gpl it either wasn't them or it was a major stuff up.

For what? Emotional damages? Their product is given away free. At best and most likely, assuming the emulator is in fact theirs and not something Carmack knocked up himself between lunch and dinner they will get an acknowledgment.

Acknowledgment what they should have gotten in the first place. I also hope they get an apology.

 

[Crispy]

Why not contact ID SfB, they probably adapted the stuff themselves for the Steam release.

I love the way to resolve something is apparently to ask everyone not to buy a game, rather than do the smart thing of contacting the parties involved, and finding out what really happened.

Well actually I was about to purchase the entire id Super Pack (a snip at ~?30!), but after I checked this thread I'm actually going to hold off until a statement/apology is issued explaining this. Leeching off other people's work and violating GPLs is a pretty serious accusation. If you want to write a letter or an email I'm sure it won't do any harm, but considering the DosBox guys know about it I'm sure they will have contacted both id and Valve to find out exactly what's going on.

The way to resolve it (quicker) is to not buy anything until the claim has had a response, which -if done on a larger scale) will put pressure on Valve and id for an answer on this. I don't see that as being quick to judge, you'd be equally foolhardy to buy something and then find out later it's ethically unsound. I'm sure about 80-90% of gamers don't actually care about this, but considering I'm working on a mod that we intend to make available for free, I'd be horrified if some dickweed started trying to sell it or bundle it in with something for a profit.

DosBox is a far more accomplished piece of work than any mod I'd care to think of. It's kept some of the best games ever to be made alive and kicking and helped sites like Abandonware and Abandonia alive. For this it deserves my respect, gratitude and in rare times like these, my support. And that is why I am boycotting id games on Steam until an answer is given.

P.S. Pound (Sterling) sign doesn't seem to be displaying correctly.

 

[StardogChampion]

I thought the GPL meant that they can do whatever the fluck they want with it?

the GPL is said to grant the recipients of a computer program the rights of the free software definition and uses copyleft to ensure the freedoms are preserved, even when the work is changed or added to.

Copyleft is a play on the word copyright and is the practice of using copyright law to remove restrictions on distributing copies and modified versions of a work for others and requiring that the same freedoms be preserved in modified versions.

Copyleft is a form of licensing and may be used to modify copyrights for works such as computer software, documents, music, and art. In general, copyright law allows an author to prohibit others from reproducing, adapting, or distributing copies of the author's work. In contrast, an author may, through a copyleft licensing scheme, give every person who receives a copy of a work permission to reproduce, adapt or distribute the work as long as any resulting copies or adaptations are also bound by the same copyleft licensing scheme.

 

[Kyorisu]

Yes you can as long as you leave the stuff that sais IT'S GPL.

http://gpl-violations.org/faq/vendor-faq.html

I've never had to use GPL yet as I keep all my programming copyright myself at the present time, but say if I use someone elses work I'd always make sure to keep the license they use and acknowledgments intact (I'd also have have to supply any modifications I make to their code base). It's pretty basic stuff really.

 

[StardogChampion]

Yeah, so I'm guessing the edited version that Valve used must be GPL. Just because there might not be a .txt file to say that it doesn't mean it isn't... ?

 

[Kyorisu]

Yeah, so I'm guessing the edited version that Valve used must be GPL. Just because there might not be a .txt file to say that it doesn't mean it isn't... ?

It's obviously Dosbox that's rather apparent (I had a look myself) and neither company has made any deal with the Dosbox guys. So the supplied program must come with a copy of the GPL.

For example COPYING.txt contained in the DOSBox v0.71 release.

GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE
Version 2, June 1991

Copyright (C) 1989, 1991 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
59 Temple Place, Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307 USA
Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim copies
of this license document, but changing it is not allowed.

etc

It wouldn't kill to keep the Authors.txt either.

As posted on the dosbox forums Valve seem to know what they are doing http://www.valvesoftware.com/legal.htm Meanwhile god I hate the steam forums, seems so crammed in the middle of the screen on my monitor.

 

[ZoFreX]

Violating the GPL = violating copyright law. It's every bit as serious as piracy, except that the companies who make paid-for content like to pretend it isn't. I hope this gets resolved quickly.

 

[badenglishihave]

Yah this thing is really crazy... these DosBox guys licensed their software under the GPL which means you need to give credit and distribute the license. I sincerely hope it was an innocent slip-up on Valve/id's part.

Give credit where credit is due, I don't care if you think it "doesn't affect you" as a gamer. If people don't get recognition for their developments, there will be no incentive to develop apart from personal fulfillment.

Do you think it would be fair to John Carmack if all the id games were wiped clean of any ties to him? Of course not, and other brilliant developers such as John would probably feel a lot less inclined to develop knowing that they could be left uncredited for their work.

 

[Deleted member 56031]

Correct Kyo, Setup files for the actual games have been removed.

Do the setup files really matter?

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

How would this be Valve's fault? I bet id gave them all the files to upload.

 

[Ennui]

Knowing Carmack, he probably coded a near-identical version of DOSBOX from scratch in his sleep and that's that they're using

 

[Gargantou]

How would this be Valve's fault? I bet id gave them all the files to upload.

Well, Valve did none the less participate in the distribution of the games, did it not?
What you just said is like saying "You can't blame the people who distribute drugs, only the people who make them."

Yes, I did just compare distributing games to distributing drugs, because to me they're both highly addictive.

But as an example, if you a store sells poor meat over here, that gets people sick, not only is the group whom produces the food viewed as responsible, but also the store for not checking out the meat close enough.

Take a look on Jagged Alliance 2 Gold on Steam, it has a bug that leads to the computer(or game) crashing after a bit of playing it, due to a memory leak, but neither the dev or Valve have done anything to remedy this. Do you think we should just let Valve(In this specific case for example) distribute a product that is severly flawed(In that it crashes every f*cking 30 minutes)?

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

Take a look on Jagged Alliance 2 Gold on Steam, it has a bug that leads to the computer(or game) crashing after a bit of playing it, due to a memory leak, but neither the dev or Valve have done anything to remedy this. Do you think we should just let Valve(In this specific case for example) distribute a product that is severly flawed(In that it crashes every f*cking 30 minutes)?

They will distribute whatever they want, THEY PAY THE BILLS, you and I don't.

 

[Gargantou]

Sure sure, hey why don't we let Valve distribute a game that is actually a virus via Steam, aslong as they're not the ones who made the virus, surely we can't hold them responsible for distributing it.
Sure they WILL distribute whatever they want, however, distributing products that are either severly flawed, or even(In the DOSBox case, afaik) in violation of copyright law, reflects very poorly on the company, you can't deny that.

 

[Demon Wraith]

Knowing Carmack, he probably coded a near-identical version of DOSBOX from scratch in his sleep and that's that they're using

That he named Dosbox.exe and used the dosbox icon for?

I just hope they resolve it soon before more people get pissy and hopefully before anyone in the 3 companies involved gets upset.

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/5834/dosbawkser7.jpg

 

[ZoFreX]

Do the setup files really matter?

Yes, if you want to play multiplayer. Doom without multiplayer? HERESY!

Now, if iD had made Windows ports of these games, I'd be ready to put down my hard-earned. The exact same code that they released years ago? Pass.

 

[Iced_Eagle]

Contact Gabe at gaben at valvesoftware.com as he could look into it more on Valve's end. Also go to id's site and find a contact address to email them and ask them what's up.

Also, about the Jagged Alliance crashing thing, it's not Valve's responsibility to fix bugs in other people's game. It's the publisher/developer of the game who is responsible. If it's such a huge widespread issue as you claim, then they should contact the developer and ask to get it fixed...

I'm sure Valve didn't do this knowingly, or there's something going on we don't know about... But I think I could be confident in saying they didn't remove all of that stuff on purpose to screw over the DosBox guys.

 

[Dekstar]

I'm sure Valve didn't do this knowingly, or there's something going on we don't know about... But I think I could be confident in saying they didn't remove all of that stuff on purpose to screw over the DosBox guys.

I agree with you, but I also find it weird that all the required files are there, but not the ones with the license in, which means someone must have actively removed them before uploading them.

 

[Jintor]

So so far, everything points to either ID or Valve removing those files before upload.

 

[Asuka]

So whats the been deal again?...

 

[Sparta]

Valve/iD are using a freeware(?) program on Steam without the permission of the creators of said program.

Basic copyright stuff that i'm sure would've slipt past whoever made the judgement to include dosbox in the download on steam. If its not resolved, then Valve/iD could face a lawsuit.

That's whats going on.