Illegal Dowloading....

aquabelic

aquabelic

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What's with the gaming industry lately?
Online you can get Adobe Photoshop CS2 which is worth US$599.00, absolutlely for free, without any serious validation, harddrive spoofing, or such.

But when it comes down to a $50 game, it seems that the security is going crazy there, harddrive spoofing, required online registration, required valid key, auto-full-ban for cheating, no game files are allowed to be edited(harddrive spoofing)

So big company's like Adobe could care less if people are easily able to steal their products and get away with it without any trace...

But smaller companys(EA, Valve) that make $50 games, go insane for loosing a mear $50...
 
It's all overpriced if you ask me. I wouldn't think twice if I ever had to download a game.
 
Well it's not only Adobe,
What about Microsoft Windows?
Most of us use it and a large portion did not even pay for it, yet it is still able to ge the updates, run all the games perfectlly, you do not see a multi-billionaire Bill Gates complaining...

I don't remember that Valve had much of a problem without steam with cs1.6 and hl,
Even though large portion of their games were illegally downloaded,
Some how they still managed to achive millions, and look at the new Source Engine, pretty.

So if Valve's STEAM is being really harsh on this, then I better damn hope to see that Valve does something good with the billiions of dollors they have earned and release a pretty decent Half-Life 3, if not then I guess I will have to rant about them in future....
 
I paid for Windows, but I really shouldn't have. If Linux had real games, I would get that in a heartbeat. I mean, you still have to pay $200 for Windows 98. Way overpriced. I don't get why companies make a fuss over it. Nothing they can do will stop the pirating completely. It will just slow it down.
 
ray_MAN said:
I paid for Windows, but I really shouldn't have. If Linux had real games, I would get that in a heartbeat. I mean, you still have to pay $200 for Windows 98. Way overpriced. I don't get why companies make a fuss over it. Nothing they can do will stop the pirating completely. It will just slow it down.
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I think the pirating community just show that they love the company's program so much that they will even waste hours and hours on just geting it.. :cheers:
 
because adobe and mircosoft can depend on their corporate customers. mircosoft allows updates to help prevent further spread of virus's.

where as game companys depend on people with alot less endowed wallet. beacuse if you look at how many people pirate games. each game pirated multiplay by $40-$50 and your looking a millions of lost dollars that they arnt getting from anyone else.
 
aquabelic said:
So big company's like Adobe could care less if people are easily able to steal their products and get away with it without any trace...

But smaller companys(EA, Valve) that make $50 games, go insane for loosing a mear $50...
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Generally speaking, big companies aren't targeting the end user. They're targeting businesses and corporations. Yes, it's physically as easy for a corporation to pirate Photoshop or Maya or whatever, but if they do that there are consideribly more consequences than if and end user pirates it. If a company does it, they can/will likely face criminal charges or massive lawsuits.

Some companies acknowledge this (that thier products aren't targeted at end users), and I applaude the ones that do. One the quickly comes to mind Alias with Maya Personal Learning Edition, which is a nearly full featured version of thier software... unlike Discreet's gMax, which is a crippled and general incompatible version of 3D Studio Max.

On the flip side, game companies are targeting the end user, so they do thier best to protect thier games.
 
Sidewinder...im happy I didn't have to write a big thing saying why Adobe and those companies don't care as much.
 
If I woudln't normally buy the program, I download it. Why spend all the money on using it for a cumulitive 5 hours? If It's good enough, I'll buy it.
 
I don't download games....yet atleast, well I downloaded Starcraft but that was the only thing. Other than that I'm all for downloading music, software, and other fun stuff. Photoshop costs a crazy amount, I'd never pay for it unless it was for business or office use. As for downloading Windows I'm down with it if it's just for going on PC's that aren't my "main" PC, with my baby everything is legit when it comes to the OS.
 
who's afraid of getting caught? there have been quite a few reports of people getting fines through their letterboxes upwards of £2k, demanding it to be paid or face legal action. :|

edit: music industry that is
 
I pay for things that are worth it. If these people make games worth paying for, I'll pay for them. Shame most are not worth paying for.. Like D-ex 2, shamefull xbox port of a bad game the makers trying to milk cash from us without any work, because people who liked the first will go and buy it.

Dont mind me trying to find reasons not to pay for things. Im a cheap shit. Go die. :)
 
Even teenagers still like playing around as pirates, we never do grow up....
Ahoy!
 
Burn said:
I pay for things that are worth it. If these people make games worth paying for, I'll pay for them. Shame most are not worth paying for.. Like D-ex 2, shamefull xbox port of a bad game the makers trying to milk cash from us without any work, because people who liked the first will go and buy it.

Dont mind me trying to find reasons not to pay for things. Im a cheap shit. Go die. :)
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Or maybe it was a wonderfull game, just not to your taste.
 
i dont see what the big deal is about pirating software. i think all the companies who make billions every year should quit bitching about it. i actually think pirating is GOOD for their business. because
1. it gets their software out there, people share it with each other which provides more opurtunities for people who want it to buy other products from that company later. it's like free advertising.
and 2. for things such as games and stuff, if someone is really a true fan, they are most likley going to buy the actual copy later so they can have the collection. playing pirated versions is like trying before you buy for people like me.
to me, pirating software is no different from taping music from the radio, or recording shows from tv for your own personal use. as long as you dont go into business selling it, i don't see a single problem with it.
 
gabriel said:
i dont see what the big deal is about pirating software. i think all the companies who make billions every year should quit bitching about it. i actually think pirating is GOOD for their business. because
1. it gets their software out there, people share it with each other which provides more opurtunities for people who want it to buy other products from that company later. it's like free advertising.
and 2. for things such as games and stuff, if someone is really a true fan, they are most likley going to buy the actual copy later so they can have the collection. playing pirated versions is like trying before you buy for people like me.
to me, pirating software is no different from taping music from the radio, or recording shows from tv for your own personal use. as long as you dont go into business selling it, i don't see a single problem with it.
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..And you'd be wrong on most of those points. Despite popular belief, not every company in the world turns billions or millions of dollars of profit.

1)That's not true. 1 person pirates the software, and then shares with other people. These other people don't say "Oh hey.. I got this software for free and I like it... let me go buy it and every other piece of software the company makes." They say "Oh wow... this whole free software thing is cool... lettme see if I can get other software for free." Which hurts the company more. There's a reason why companies advertise thier products with demos, limited trials, and media ads. Not full copies of thier software.

2)The point of making software isn't for the small "true fan" user base. If you do that you don't make profit. You say it's like trying before you buy, but I can almost guarentee you that unless it's a multiplayer game or something where you absolutly have to have a legitimate copy to play online, you don't play a singleplayer game, beat it, and then say "You know what, I liked this game. I should buy it."

3)The radio issue is kinda iffy, but as for recording a TV show... you have the same general rights with that as you do with software and music that you buy. Fair Use. You can make copies for your own use and backup purposes. You don't have the right if you didn't pay for the software in the first place.


I know there's no way people are going to stop pirating things, but I'm just trying to show that there's no reasoning your way out if it... you are breaking laws, you are hurting the company. If that doesn't bother you, fine.
 
Grey Fox said:
Or maybe it was a wonderfull game, just not to your taste.
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Either way there not getting my money.
 
CptStern said:
84% of UK gamers (15-18) admit to pirating games .... :|
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This is interesting, and I think it ties into the point I was going to make about how software companies overestimate by millions the amount they lose to piracy. Think about it - 84% of UK gamers admit to pirating games, but if you did a survey on how many of those same people BUY games I would speculate that the percentage would be much higher. I mean why wouldn't it be? I know I've both pirated and bought games, and I'm sure many of the people on here are the same.

What this means to me is that 1 pirated game does not = 1 lost sale, as most companies seem to assume. Just because you pirate a game it does not mean that you ever intended to buy it, and now wont. I havefriends who pirate a hell of a lot of games, but usually it's of stuff they are only vaguely interested in, since they are not passionate gamers anyway. What is the benefit for them in spending £30 on a game that they only want to play out of idle curiosity - without piracy, they still wouldn't buy games. While this does not apply to all pirates, I would guess that it applies to a massive amount.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that piracy benefits the industry,but it certainly doesn't do as much harm as is made out. Poorly implemented anti-piracy measures (securom protection which blocks installs, etc etc), on the other hand, go a long way towards frustrating and inconveniencing the average consumer, especially the not-too-technically-literate ones who would fall in that 16% of people who don't pirate. And when games are priced as they are, and given the choice between those prices and free downloading of the same software, I don't think the prevalence of piracy is all that much of a surprise.
 
aquabelic said:
But smaller companys(EA, Valve) that make $50 games, go insane for loosing a mear $50...
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Hahah...you think EA is small?
 
I feel guilty whenever I try to get a cracked version of a program...so then I stop downloading it. But, I have to follow the whims of the game developers at GDC...too...
 
SidewinderX said:
..And you'd be wrong on most of those points. Despite popular belief, not every company in the world turns billions or millions of dollars of profit.
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well, i was slightly exagerating when i said that. basically what i guess i'm trying to say though is that i think there are two groups of pirates. some that just download everything they want for free and cheapen the hard work and creativity put into making the product they are pirating. all they do is take advantage of the system for their own selfish cause.
and then there's the ones that use pirating to praise and appreciate the work that has been put into the product. these are the "fan" pirates who pirate things because they really want to get ahold of a product that they otherwise wouldn't get because maybe they don't have the means to shell out hard earned cash for overpriced items. this type of pirate is more likely to buy the product eventually though.
many people just see all pirates as evil theives, which i think is absolutley wrong. the only problem is that you cant exactly draw a line between the good ones and the bad ones.
with both of the types though, a lot of them probably wouldn't buy the product if they couldn't pirate it so it's not like the companies really lose a serious amount of money. if they couldnt pirate some of these things, they wouldn't buy them anyway, they'd just say "ahh well screw it then" and the company wouldnt make any money from the person anyway. so at least, pirating allows people who don't have the budget to buy $50 games all the time to get ahold of the things that they really want to see for themselfs. i can see why certain people want to eliminate pirating, but i think the extent they take it to is completly rediculous because there are other much bigger threats they can be worrying about.
 
gabriel said:
well, i was slightly exagerating when i said that. basically what i guess i'm trying to say though is that i think there are two groups of pirates. some that just download everything they want for free and cheapen the hard work and creativity put into making the product they are pirating. all they do is take advantage of the system for their own selfish cause.
and then there's the ones that use pirating to praise and appreciate the work that has been put into the product. these are the "fan" pirates who pirate things because they really want to get ahold of a product that they otherwise wouldn't get because maybe they don't have the means to shell out hard earned cash for overpriced items. this type of pirate is more likely to buy the product eventually though.
many people just see all pirates as evil theives, which i think is absolutley wrong. the only problem is that you cant exactly draw a line between the good ones and the bad ones.
with both of the types though, a lot of them probably wouldn't buy the product if they couldn't pirate it so it's not like the companies really lose a serious amount of money. if they couldnt pirate some of these things, they wouldn't buy them anyway, they'd just say "ahh well screw it then" and the company wouldnt make any money from the person anyway. so at least, pirating allows people who don't have the budget to buy $50 games all the time to get ahold of the things that they really want to see for themselfs. i can see why certain people want to eliminate pirating, but i think the extent they take it to is completly rediculous because there are other much bigger threats they can be worrying about.
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So you're saying that there are some people who pirate games because they want to praise an appreciate those who put the work into designing it? So to recognize them, they steal it so they don't have to recognize them through the system that is already set up (ie, buying it?)?

Then you say that "a lot of them probably wouldn't buy the product if they couldn't pirate it so it's not like the companies really lose a serious amount of money." But they are still loosing money. Say you have a minor cut. You're not loosing alot of blood quicky. Do you just sit there and let your arm bleed and bleed and bleed? No, you try and stop it from bleeding.

Then you say "i think the extent they take it to is completly rediculous because there are other much bigger threats they can be worrying about."
Time for another analogy. Car thefts are bad. But murders are worse. Would you say that the police should only worry about and work on murder cases and just let people steal cars? No, you wouldn't. Yes there are very serious issues out there, but that doesn't mean that everything else should be neglected.

Now, you did bring up the price thing, which I consider a different issue. The fact that games cost so much isn't justification for stealing them. I do think the standard developer/publisher system is inherently flawed and is a HUGE problem in the industry.... but that's a topic for a different debate.
 
SidewinderX said:
So you're saying that there are some people who pirate games because they want to praise an appreciate those who put the work into designing it? So to recognize them, they steal it so they don't have to recognize them through the system that is already set up (ie, buying it?)?
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No, he’s saying that some people just can’t buy every game that’s he wants to play.

SidewinderX said:
Then you say that "a lot of them probably wouldn't buy the product if they couldn't pirate it so it's not like the companies really lose a serious amount of money." But they are still loosing money. Say you have a minor cut. You're not loosing alot of blood quicky. Do you just sit there and let your arm bleed and bleed and bleed? No, you try and stop it from bleeding.
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No, they are not losing money. Think about what he is saying. If Game X cannot be obtained by Gamer Y for free and he still does not pay for it, that is to say, he would rather go without said game than pay for it and play it. Then there is no loss in sales; there never was a “sale” to lose.

SidewinderX said:
Then you say "i think the extent they take it to is completly rediculous because there are other much bigger threats they can be worrying about."
Time for another analogy. Car thefts are bad. But murders are worse. Would you say that the police should only worry about and work on murder cases and just let people steal cars? No, you wouldn't. Yes there are very serious issues out there, but that doesn't mean that everything else should be neglected.
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I thought he was referring to anti-pirate technology. So, to borrow your analogy.

Car theft may be a problem that needs addressed but there are limits to what you can do. For example, there was a carjacking in South Africa a few months back, the car had a new thumbprint ignition so only the owner could drive it. When the jackers realised this, they did not leave the car alone, they cut off the owners thumb.

This is how I see anti-piracy technology, designed to stop piracy – which it clearly doesn’t do – but actually screws over the paying customer.
 
Then there is no loss in sales; there never was a “sale” to lose.
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But Gamer G was going to buy X game but he found out that he can pirate X game just as easily and for free so Gamer G pirated X game.
So there was a sale lost. It may not be the case 100% of the time but guess what, it still is the case.

This is how I see anti-piracy technology, designed to stop piracy – which it clearly doesn’t do – but actually screws over the paying customer.
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And overtime it will get better.... just like everything..
 
Stupid Microsoft!
The Beta 1 that is out for their new OS, Vista, is not open to the public(ehem, except torrents that is)
How is Microsoft suppose to make an a wonder OS for everybody even the average user if they keep all the betas between them and other companys.
Hey!
We are the people that mostly complain about the OS's flaws why not let us test the system out and recommend fixes where needed, opinions, recommendations, etc.

Weird...
 
Minerel said:
But Gamer G was going to buy X game but he found out that he can pirate X game just as easily and for free so Gamer G pirated X game.
So there was a sale lost. It may not be the case 100% of the time but guess what, it still is the case.
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No, i think the things that most people aquire pirate versions of are things that they wouldn't normally buy. This goes for music, games, movies, software, whatever- most of the time, the only people that get illegal versions are people that had no previous intention of paying for it.
 
Everything Digital Is Replicatable. You can't blame people for it, it's just the way it is. :)

Btw, is VALVe a high profit company? I'm planning on getting a job at it.
 
No, i think the things that most people aquire pirate versions of are things that they wouldn't normally buy.
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But some would buy it. Thats the point.

Btw, is VALVe a high profit company? I'm planning on getting a job at it.
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Very high profit company. HL2 and Source had $40 million put into them. All that money was completely from HL, expansions, and Cs. No publisher funding at all.

Another high profit company is Blizzard Entertainment who has about 3.5 million people subscribing on WoW alone, and having Battle.net averaging 200,000 users alone and having a old 1998 game getting up to 120,000 users itself.
 
I like warez-kiddies, I have one as a pet in my basement.
 
The guys at Discreet, makes of 3Ds Max. They dont give a shit if people downloaded their software or not. Thats what i heard a guy saying, when he spoke to one of the guys in the company.
 
Makers of stuff like Photoshop and Maya are able to enjoy a "wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more" attitude towards pirates because they know thats really the only way most people are going to get started with their software. I know I wouldn't have shelled out $500 for Photoshop without learning it first.
 
aquabelic said:
Stupid Microsoft!
The Beta 1 that is out for their new OS, Vista, is not open to the public(ehem, except torrents that is)
How is Microsoft suppose to make an a wonder OS for everybody even the average user if they keep all the betas between them and other companys.
Hey!
We are the people that mostly complain about the OS's flaws why not let us test the system out and recommend fixes where needed, opinions, recommendations, etc.

Weird...
Click to expand...

No offense, but this post scream I'M IGNORANT.
First off, it's Beta 1. The very first edition. It's going to be distributed to IT and Tech professionals. Why? Because they actually know what they're talking about and can offer real advice and analasis of the problem.
Instead of "Teh PC crashed when I tried to go online", Microsoft might get "The computer had a hard crash when the OS network drivers tried to access an outside IP network. This may be because...."

Future Beta's will be more open, like the WinXP-64 was. But Beta won't because they're only looking for certian advice and help at this stage.

No, i think the things that most people aquire pirate versions of are things that they wouldn't normally buy. This goes for music, games, movies, software, whatever- most of the time, the only people that get illegal versions are people that had no previous intention of paying for it.
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That is not true. That's what alot of people say to rationalize it to themselves, but I can tell you that's not true. I have alot of friends who pirate games, and I have in the past. They pirate them because they don't want to pay for them. The games they pirate they would have bought if they couldn't pirate them.
And there was this very long thread at some forum (forgot where.. i'll try and find it) that's all about Splinter Cell: CT. The thread is all about (right when the game came out) that no one had cracked it yet, and people were complaining. As you kept reading the posts, you started to see a bunch of post "It was on sale at wal-mart for $40, I figured I might as well buy it since there isn't a cracked copy yet." I think there were 20 or so posts like that out of a 80-100 post thread.

No, he’s saying that some people just can’t buy every game that’s he wants to play.
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No, he did say that, later in his thread, but I was responding to "and then there's the ones that use pirating to praise and appreciate the work that has been put into the product." I then later responded to the cost of games.

No, they are not losing money. Think about what he is saying. If Game X cannot be obtained by Gamer Y for free and he still does not pay for it, that is to say, he would rather go without said game than pay for it and play it. Then there is no loss in sales; there never was a “sale” to lose.
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This goes back to what I post earlier, and what others posted. It'd be nice if that was true, and it may be true in some cases, but it's definitly not true in all the cases, and I would guess that it's not even true in most cases, going off of what I personally did and what my friends did.

This is how I see anti-piracy technology, designed to stop piracy – which it clearly doesn’t do – but actually screws over the paying customer.
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I'm not going to argue that the current technology is good, I definitly agree that some of the things, like Starforce, go way across the line. But, that said, they can't just ignore the problem. If there wasn't piracy to begin with, then there wouldn't be these crappy protections. I know that's unreasonable, but I'm just saying that as consumers we're going to have to deal with it, and the more people pirate, the worse it's probably going to get.
 
what i meant by "the ones that use pirating to praise and appreciate the work that has been put into the product." is that they really appreciate the product and the company but they HAVE to pirate it because they CANT buy it. What I meant is that they can still pay tribute to the company by just using their product and telling their freinds about how great it is, and then they will eventually buy it later when they get the cash or when the price goes down. i was saying that pirating is a way for fans of products to not get left behind when they're short on cash.
 
If your so short on cash that you can't buy a video game you should be worried about other things... such as working. If you don't have the $50 to buy a game, you shouldn't be wasting time playing them... get a job and pay your rent/food/entertainment expenses.

No one HAS to pirate anything. No one HAS to steal anything. Not having the money isn't a reason to steal something. If they're going to buy it later when they have the money, why can't they wait? The company doesn't care if they play it the day it comes out or 2 months later... by pirating it you're not paying the company tribute.
 
right, not having money isnt a reason to steal. but i think its a perfectly good reason to pirate. i still say pirating does not equal stealing (in most cases anyway). have you guys ever seen those lame ads on dvds that say "you wouldnt steal a car... blah blah.. so don't pirate"? those things are so ridiculous that they make me want to pirate more. stealing a car and pirating something that exists in the digital world are completely different things. a car is a physical item that has a worth and can't be replaced unless another car is bought. something like a game can be copied over and over again until the whole freakin world has a copy. also, stealing something like a car would be very devastating to the one person who bought the car. pirating a game online might create a small devastation to an entire company, but only if the person was actually thinking about buying it. sure, i understand that when tons of people all pirate the same thing, that the money that was "lost" adds up, but i dont think you can blame those people for the company not being responsible for their own product and making sure that it wont be leaked or cracked somehow. blame the crackers, blame the company, blame the websites or software that is letting pirating happen, but i think it is completely unreasonable to put blame on the people that are just taking advantage of what has been given to them. the internet was created to share information, and thats all these people are doing. i think if pirating really seriously caused all the major problems that they say it is, then they would have been able to put a stop to it by now. i know the difference between right and wrong, and pirating isn't exactly "right", but in most cases i do not believe that it is wrong.
 
what about music, I heard if u download music ur ip is traced, and ur suied? My friend said you can download as long as u dont let people download from you.
 
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