Im joining the army..yay

[repiV]

I could go on and on and on about how horrific the war in iraq is but why bother? ..it's like trying to convince creationists of the validity of evolution

Yes you could, but war is horrific by definition and most wars are a lot more horrific than Iraq, so I fail to see what point you would be making.

 

[knut]

My mate just got turned down for a pilot in the RAF. It's a tough job to go for, but then he was partially deaf (like... 1% deaf, if that makes any sense) so that's why he got turned down. Good luck anyway, to the both of you. I'm going to the TA before I think of joining the Regulars, just not infantry.

 

[repiV]

I thought that they flew F-18s or is that the Marines?

Marines and Navy. The AF use F15s and F16s for air-to-air...

 

[repiV]

My mate just got turned down for a pilot in the RAF. It's a tough job to go for, but then he was partially deaf (like... 1% deaf, if that makes any sense) so that's why he got turned down. Good luck anyway, to the both of you. I'm going to the TA before I think of joining the Regulars, just not infantry.

I know someone who got turned down because he had slight asthma when he was five years old. Their selection process is completely ruthless.

 

[Glirk Dient]

I laughed at half the posts I just read giving advice/insight about Iraq and the military. Some of you are making Iraq out to be an easy job everyone wakes up to and does a simple job. Others are describing it as a nazi oppression/torture camp. To some soldiers it really is that easy job where they go on patrol and take care of whatever they need to. To some soldiers they are ordered to imprison and/or kill people and it is very traumatizing for them. You don't get to choose which one is going to happen to you in the infantry. The only choice you have is whether you want to take that risk by joining the infantry or get a technical job that will prepare you for your future.

 

[Parlez]

Marines and Navy. The AF use F15s and F16s for air-to-air...

Oh ok thanks. I will be trying to fly a F-15 then because I would like to fly a double engine aircraft rather than a single.

 

[CptStern]

Yes you could, but war is horrific by definition and most wars are a lot more horrific than Iraq, so I fail to see what point you would be making.

no this war is especially horrific because it didnt have to happen ..had the bush admin not lied their way into iraq coalition soldiers wouldnt have to put their lives at risk just to line the pockets of those that sent them there ...ANY participation in this war is tantamount to participating in the rape and murder of iraq and the iraqi people


btw what would you wannabe pilots do if asked to bomb civilian infrastructure? US and british planes bombed the living shit out of water treatment plants/sewege plants during desert storm that directly led to the deaths of over a million iraqis ..500,000 of those children under the age of 5.

 

[repiV]

I laughed at half the posts I just read. Some of you are making Iraq out to be an easy job everyone wakes up to and does a simple job. Others are describing it as a nazi oppression/torture camp. To some soldiers it really is that easy job where they go on patrol and take care of whatever they need to. To some soldiers they are ordered to imprison and/or kill people and it is very traumatizing for them. You don't get to choose which one is going to happen to you in the infantry. The only choice you have is whether you want to take that risk by joining the infantry or get a technical job that will prepare you for your future.

If you're referring to me, the point I was making is not that it's easy - there's a big difference between easy and simple.

Any military service will prepare you for the future...it gives you valuable life skills that you won't learn anywhere else and which a lot of young people desperately lack...the infantry even moreso.

 

[knut]

I know someone who got turned down because he had slight asthma when he was five years old. Their selection process is completely ruthless.

Aye, tough stuff. He's going on for helicopter pilot now, the next thing in line he's always wanted to do. I'm off to the Royal Armoured Corps/Yeomanry in Telford for Challenger II training in driving and firing. Should be intresting, for alot of reasons other than those aswell. Keep my fitness, learn new stuff, etc. Looking forward to it, and from there I'll decide what to do.

 

[repiV]

no this war is especially horrific because it didnt have to happen ..had the bush admin not lied their way into iraq coalition soldiers wouldnt have to put their lives at risk just to line the pockets of those that sent them there ...ANY participation in this war is tantamount to participating in the rape and murder of iraq and the iraqi people

I was taking you seriously up until your hysterical ramblings at the end there.

btw what would you wannabe pilots do if asked to bomb civilian infrastructure? US and british planes bombed the living shit out of water treatment plants/sewege plants during desert storm that directly led to the deaths of over a million iraqis ..500,000 of those children under the age of 5.

Civilian infrastructure is also military infrastructure... not a hard concept to understand, is it?
Are you going to condemn British WWII pilots for decimating Germany's military-industrial complex - and inevitably killing millions of civilians in the process?
It's war. Tough doo-doo.

 

[Parlez]

btw what would you wannabe pilots do if asked to bomb civilian infrastructure? US and british planes bombed the living shit out of water treatment plants/sewege plants during desert storm that directly led to the deaths of over a million iraqis ..500,000 of those children under the age of 5.

If there was a present threat to the USA or surrounding friendly countries and you where a commanding officer than I guess I would suit up and roll out.

 

[repiV]

Aye, tough stuff. He's going on for helicopter pilot now, the next thing in line he's always wanted to do. I'm off to the Royal Armoured Corps/Yeomanry in Telford for Challenger II training in driving and firing. Should be intresting, for alot of reasons other than those aswell. Keep my fitness, learn new stuff, etc. Looking forward to it, and from there I'll decide what to do.

Well, best of luck to the both of ya.

 

[CptStern]

Civilian infrastructure is also military infrastructure... not a hard concept to understand, is it?

umm no, the geneva accords specifically forbid targeting infrastructure neccesary to civilian life ..the water treatment plants are necessary to life

Article 54 Geneva Conventions:

it is prohibited to attack, destroy, remove or render useless objects indispensable to the survival of the civilian population, such as foodstuffs, agricultural areas for the production of foodstuffs, crops, livestock, drinking water installations and supplies and irrigation works, for the specific purpose of denying them for their sustenance value to the civilian population or to the adverse Party, whatever the motive, whether in order to starve out civilians, to cause them to move away, or for any other motive.

http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/93.htm


...not that that justifies the deaths of 500,000 children ..which was the goal:

this was before the war:

Iraq depends on importing specialized equipment and some chemicals to purify its water supply, most of which is heavily mineralized and frequently brackish to saline.... Failing to secure supplies will result in a shortage of pure drinking water for much of the population. This could lead to increased incidences, if not epidemics, of disease.... Unless the water is purified with chlorine, epidemics of such diseases as cholera, hepatitis, and typhoid could occur.

http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/declassdocs/dia/19950901/950901_511rept_91.html

this is during:

Disease Outbreaks in Iraq

assessment is that major disease outbreaks
currently have not occurred in Baghdad or Basrah. For severe
outbreaks to develop, a protracted war or more extensive
collateral damage would have to occur.

Conditions are favorable for communicable disease outbreaks, particularly in major urban areas affected by coalition bombing." It adds: "Infectious disease prevalence in major Iraqi urban areas targeted by coalition bombing (Baghdad, Basrah) undoubtedly has increased since the beginning of Desert Storm. . . . Current public health problems are attributable to the reduction of normal preventive medicine, waste disposal, water purification and distribution, electricity, and the decreased ability to control disease outbreaks.

http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/declassdocs/dia/19950901/950901_0pgv072_90p.html

If there was a present threat to the USA or surrounding friendly countries and you where a commanding officer than I guess I would suit up and roll out.

read the declassified documents I linked to above ..the US purposefully targeted those areas knowing full well that most of the victems would be children:

This document lists the most likely diseases during next sixty-ninety days (descending order): diarrheal diseases (particularly children); acute respiratory illnesses (colds and influenza); typhoid; hepatitis A (particularly children); measles, diphtheria, and pertussis (particularly children); meningitis, including meningococcal (particularly children); cholera (possible, but less likely).

http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/declassdocs/dia/19950901/950901_0pgv072_90p.html

to even suggest killing children is a matter of national security is laughable

 

[repiV]

umm no, the geneva accords specifically forbid targeting infrastructure neccesary to civilian life ..the water treatment plants are necessary to life

Article 54 Geneva Conventions:



http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/93.htm


...not that that justifies the deaths of 500,000 children ..which was the goal:

this was before the war:



http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/declassdocs/dia/19950901/950901_511rept_91.html

this is during:





http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/declassdocs/dia/19950901/950901_0pgv072_90p.html




read the declassified documents I linked to above ..the US purposefully targeted those areas knowing full well that most of the victems would be children:



http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/declassdocs/dia/19950901/950901_0pgv072_90p.html

to even suggest killing children is a matter of national security is laughable

Except they didn't even target water treatment plants - what the hell are you smoking?
You also insinuate I suggested that we should kill children in the name of national security...there really is nothing you do better than ridiculous hysteria. You're just a left-wing version of the Daily Mail, but worse.

 

[Aenama]

I could go on and on and on about how horrific the war in iraq is but why bother? ..it's like trying to convince creationists of the validity of evolution

yes do us a favor and leave us alone.

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

I could go on and on and on about how horrific the war in iraq is but why bother? ..it's like trying to convince creationists of the validity of evolution

You go on with what is said via the media...I suggest really not listening to what they all have to say, because a lot of it is garbage.

 

[CptStern]

Except they didn't even target water treatment plants - what the hell are you smoking?

Effects of Bombing on Disease Occurrence in Baghdad
http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/declassdocs/dia/19950901/950901_0504rept_91.html

You also insinuate I suggested that we should kill children in the name of national security...there really is nothing you do better than ridiculous hysteria. You're just a left-wing version of the Daily Mail, but worse.

I didnt suggest anything of the sort

...but it's clear you didnt read a word of any of the links or material I provided, none of you did. it's all there ..**** it why bother?

 

[Aenama]

What Stern says is true.


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=684_1172145606

 

[15357]

Geneva sucks.


Go for it, damn it. Why are you people so unsupportive of a great daring and honorable deed?

 

[mastag]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwW9L_qzqp8

 

[CptStern]

Geneva sucks.

yes because treaties on protecting civilians during wartime is a bad thing ..shut up numbers

Go for it, damn it. Why are you people so unsupportive of a great daring and honorable deed?

probably because unlike you the majority are able to see beyond a comic book interpretation of what it means to serve in the military ..btw you'd make an excellent soldier/cannon fodder

"yes sir, how high sir, and how soon do I get to die for my country, sir"

like sheep to the slaughter

 

[Solaris]

Yes, Solaris, because every soldier is a rapist and child-murderer.

-Angry Lawyer

I never said that, they are still however accessories to the crime.

 

[Pulse]

So many experienced war analysts in this thread, I feel honoured to amongst such greatness!

 

[repiV]

Effects of Bombing on Disease Occurrence in Baghdad
http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/declassdocs/dia/19950901/950901_0504rept_91.html

Wow...disease is more prevalent in a warzone. Stunning revelation there...

I didnt suggest anything of the sort

...but it's clear you didnt read a word of any of the links or material I provided, none of you did. it's all there ..**** it why bother?

I read some intelligence reports on the prevalence of disease in Iraq at different times...what exactly does that have to do with the bombing of water treatment plants that never actually happened?

 

[Aenama]

I never said that, they are still however accessories to the crime.

what crime?

 

[Solaris]

what crime?

Every crime committed by US forces in Iraq. It is an imperialist occupation, horrible crimes are committed by our troops and the new warlords and sectarian murderers we have put in power. By fighting against those who would seek to other throw the current regime and the occupation, you are an accessory to the crimes the occupation commits.

 

[repiV]

Fighting jihadi whackjobs is a horrible crime, obviously.

Better get out your prayer mat...

 

[gick]

Every crime committed by US forces in Iraq. It is an imperialist occupation, horrible crimes are committed by our troops and the new warlords and sectarian murderers we have put in power. By fighting against those who would seek to other throw the current regime and the occupation, you are an accessory to the crimes the occupation commits.

And this, kids, is what we call doublethink!

 

[15357]

yes because treaties on protecting civilians during wartime is a bad thing ..shut up numbers

Eh, I only said that because of the oh-so-many arguments.

probably because unlike you the majority are able to see beyond a comic book interpretation of what it means to serve in the military ..btw you'd make an excellent soldier/cannon fodder

"yes sir, how high sir, and how soon do I get to die for my country, sir"

like sheep to the slaughter

Well, sure, dying for my country would be fine, but that isn't exactly plan A. Kill as many enemies of freedom as you can, and you probably won't have to die.

 

[Danimal]

YOU LACK DISCIPLINE!

STOP WHINING.


Oh btw, good luck Lemonking.

 

[repiV]

And this, kids, is what we call doublethink!

Did you also see the irony in the fact that by the same logic, all the jihadi whackjobs in Iraq (sorry, freedom fighters united in the mythical non-existant resistance movement) are accessories to suicide bombings, beheadings of soldiers and journalists and mass murder of civilians?

 

[gick]

Did you also see the irony in the fact that by the same logic, all the jihadi whackjobs in Iraq (sorry, freedom fighters united in the mythical non-existant resistance movement) are accessories to suicide bombings, beheadings of soldiers and journalists and mass murder of civilians?

Yaha, thats what I was getting at.

Why hello there Mr Cognitive Dissonance!

 

[Glirk Dient]

Every crime committed by US forces in Iraq. It is an imperialist occupation, horrible crimes are committed by our troops and the new warlords and sectarian murderers we have put in power. By fighting against those who would seek to other throw the current regime and the occupation, you are an accessory to the crimes the occupation commits.

Umm, IDK what laws you think the military is governed by but I can't find anywhere in the UCMJ that states that all soldiers will be punished if someone gives an unethical order. Perhaps if it was a squad yes but the fact that Bush made unethical commands does not mean every soldier is responsible for doing their duty and following command. It is not their place to think, it is their place to follow orders. The person giving the orders is responsible.

 

[Solaris]

Umm, IDK what laws you think the military is governed by but I can't find anywhere in the UCMJ that states that all soldiers will be punished if someone gives an unethical order. Perhaps if it was a squad yes but the fact that Bush made unethical commands does not mean every soldier is responsible for doing their duty and following command. It is not their place to think, it is their place to follow orders. The person giving the orders is responsible.

Nuremburg showed us that "I was only following orders" is not an excuse.

 

[SpotEnemyBoats]

So many experienced war analysts in this thread, I feel honoured to amongst such greatness!

ROFL.

 

[Glirk Dient]

Nuremburg showed us that "I was only following orders" is not an excuse.

So you are saying that the entire US military should be tried for war crimes because a few individuals have carried out with atrocities and GWB invaded on false pretexts?

 

[Solaris]

So you are saying that the entire US military should be tried for war crimes because a few individuals have carried out with atrocities and GWB invaded on false pretexts?

No, but none of the soldiers who have served in Iraq should have a clean conscience.

 

[Aenama]

says the kid that has been brain washed by his own mother.

 

[Solaris]

says the kid that has been brain washed by his own mother.

Says the kid who's mother is a fat clown.

 

[Glirk Dient]

No, but none of the soldiers who have served in Iraq should have a clean conscience.

By fighting against those who would seek to other throw the current regime and the occupation, you are an accessory to the crimes the occupation commits.

Which is it, are you saying they should all feel guilty or that they all should be punished?