Immigration (In the US)

[P-Lo]

You dont think that these people are eventually going to stand up and demand to stop being exploited? Thats what it is when you pay a person 1/5 a livable wage, pure and simple exploitment. Whats going to happen eventually is their kids who are legal will get together and unionise.

Nope, because they know they are illegal and if they did, they would be sent back to mexico anyways. Maybe I should get my fellow friends-who-were-born-in-a-family-who-migrated-here to get together,and unionise because that is our ultimate plan. :dozey: :rolling:

 

[Lil' Timmy]

everyone has a point, stfu. probably the worst thread ever.. i wonder if i should try to spam it into nothingness...

 

[P-Lo]

It just got alittle off-hand.

 

[Dalamari]

Due to the current thread, I will now listen to the Immigrant Song - Led Zeppelin.

 

[blahblahblah]

No I didn't. Salary is a fairly small part of those buisneses, but they arent going to just start paying more and keep the same people on. They will cut people to keep the profit margin the same. This will lead to unemployment(unless they form a very good union, which I dont think is very likely).

You did contradict yourself. You say one minute that hiring legals will not raise costs dramatically then contradict yourself saying that comapnies cannot bear the burden of higher labor costs. Which story is it?

Which is why illegal immigration is important. Anyways, illegal immigrants don't work in stores like Target. They work in landscape companies and other jobs that are hard to fill.

You are assuming there is a radical change in illegal immigration employment, when no such change is even remotely likely to happen.

You are also forgetting about the economic growth that they supply as well. I don't feel like ranting for a long time about that. Basically, you can attribute a large part of economic growth to these illegal immigrants.

 

[Homer]

Exploiting workers is a horrible way to acheave economic grouth.
And I made clear what I ment in the post you quoted, employers will guard their profit margins. They have adjusted to the illigal work force by hiring more people with the same total ammound spent on salary. If they were forced not to hire illigals, or forced to pay them livable wages then they would have to pay fewer people higher salarys to do the job. With the illigals here it will lead to unemployment.

 

[Homer]

Nope, because they know they are illegal and if they did, they would be sent back to mexico anyways. Maybe I should get my fellow friends-who-were-born-in-a-family-who-migrated-here to get together,and unionise because that is our ultimate plan. :dozey: :rolling:

Their kids are American Citizens. They will have rights.

 

[P-Lo]

Are we still talking about the same thing here? Are you saying that american-born kids with illegal immigrants would or american-born kids with legal immigrants would unionize?

And when I replied last time to you. I was talking about the illegal immigrants. Not their american-born kids.

 

[Pogrom]

Exploiting workers is a horrible way to acheave economic grouth.

Tell that to Nike, or any other large multi-national corporation that exploits sweatshop labour in third world countries. It may be horrible, but it is also extremely successful.

That's how they got as large as they are today.

However, that's a whole other can of worms...

 

[blahblahblah]

Exploiting workers is a horrible way to acheave economic grouth.
And I made clear what I ment in the post you quoted, employers will guard their profit margins. They have adjusted to the illigal work force by hiring more people with the same total ammound spent on salary. If they were forced not to hire illigals, or forced to pay them livable wages then they would have to pay fewer people higher salarys to do the job. With the illigals here it will lead to unemployment.

Without illegals here it will lead to unemployment as well. I don't quite understand youru point.

 

[Rico]

Ok so let me get this straight, you think U.S citizens of mexican or South american descent should not be paid as well as a white kid like you just because their parents were illegal immigrants? Does your idiocy know no boundaries or are you that big of a racist?

How about legal immigrants? Are they also stealing your jobs? Stealing your tax dollars and stealing your porno magazines to boot?

Answer me that, what of legal immigrants who come here for X reason to work and study and have their families? What makes you any better than them or more deserving of the jobs in America, you're an immigrant like them, an illegal immigrant most likely (guess what, the huge immigration wave from the 1900 - onwards consisted mostly of illegal immigrants) so really, if anyone should complain about the unfairness of people getting their jobs stolen it should be Native Americans.

I'm from South America and I moved here 4 years ago, I'm a legal immigrant and I speak both English and Spanish fluently. I have a few uncles and aunts who are U.S citizens and I have an aunt who gained citizenship through marriage, citizenship is not passed down because someone is your relative unless you are their dependent and even then, only if you're underage (under 21).

Want to know why a lot of these people don't immigrate here legally? Because it's a ****ing expensive pain in the ass that gets you less rights than what illegal immigrants get. Want to get a peek into what my life is like? A legal immigrant who's stealing your jobs?

I pay taxes, I study full time in a shitty oummunity college in hopes of transfer to a 4 year university after I get my core classes done (I can't get government scholarships like you "citizens" just because I wasn't born here, even though I graduated in the top 15% of my class), I pay 3 times the amount of tuition a "citizen" does and I'm not allowed to have ANY sort of job or I can risk being deported or it being put on my record (which will hinder any attempts to get a greencard). There are thousands of types of visas, F1 is the most common for international students, H4, H1, F2, F4... there's a ****ing book filled with letters like this about visa status. Each one limits you in different ways depending on what permissions you have. Guess what, each one of them costs a shitload of money most people can't even afford.

So here I am, paying 3 times the regular tuition, getting shit from people like you about getting their jobs stolen and talking as if being from another country is a bad thing, paying YOUR ****ING TAXES without any of the money actually going for personal benefits (I get no social security or tax returns, fun huh?) or for myself and I get the ability to live here and go to a college where I have to pay 3 times the tuition as you would. Oh, and to boot, I'm not allowed to get a job, not even on campus.

How's that for a slap in the face? Maybe you should respect these damn people because all in all, they have it a lot harder than you could ever imagine and they are contributing more to your country than you ever will.

 

[P-Lo]

;(

 

[mindless_moder]

what you people dont understand is that the crimes arent being comitted because they are the children of imigrants or illegal imigrants its because of a variety of diff factyors but you just like to sit back in your chair and classify it ...stick some labels on it ...because you have seen an example where it occurs.

 

[Foxtrot]

Ok so let me get this straight, you think U.S citizens of mexican or South american descent should not be paid as well as a white kid like you just because their parents were illegal immigrants? Does your idiocy know no boundaries or are you that big of a racist?

How about legal immigrants? Are they also stealing your jobs? Stealing your tax dollars and stealing your porno magazines to boot?

Answer me that, what of legal immigrants who come here for X reason to work and study and have their families? What makes you any better than them or more deserving of the jobs in America, you're an immigrant like them, an illegal immigrant most likely (guess what, the huge immigration wave from the 1900 - onwards consisted mostly of illegal immigrants) so really, if anyone should complain about the unfairness of people getting their jobs stolen it should be Native Americans.

I'm from South America and I moved here 4 years ago, I'm a legal immigrant and I speak both English and Spanish fluently. I have a few uncles and aunts who are U.S citizens and I have an aunt who gained citizenship through marriage, citizenship is not passed down because someone is your relative unless you are their dependent and even then, only if you're underage (under 21).

Want to know why a lot of these people don't immigrate here legally? Because it's a ****ing expensive pain in the ass that gets you less rights than what illegal immigrants get. Want to get a peek into what my life is like? A legal immigrant who's stealing your jobs?

I pay taxes, I study full time in a shitty oummunity college in hopes of transfer to a 4 year university after I get my core classes done (I can't get government scholarships like you "citizens" just because I wasn't born here, even though I graduated in the top 15% of my class), I pay 3 times the amount of tuition a "citizen" does and I'm not allowed to have ANY sort of job or I can risk being deported or it being put on my record (which will hinder any attempts to get a greencard). There are thousands of types of visas, F1 is the most common for international students, H4, H1, F2, F4... there's a ****ing book filled with letters like this about visa status. Each one limits you in different ways depending on what permissions you have. Guess what, each one of them costs a shitload of money most people can't even afford.

So here I am, paying 3 times the regular tuition, getting shit from people like you about getting their jobs stolen and talking as if being from another country is a bad thing, paying YOUR ****ING TAXES without any of the money actually going for personal benefits (I get no social security or tax returns, fun huh?) or for myself and I get the ability to live here and go to a college where I have to pay 3 times the tuition as you would. Oh, and to boot, I'm not allowed to get a job, not even on campus.

How's that for a slap in the face? Maybe you should respect these damn people because all in all, they have it a lot harder than you could ever imagine and they are contributing more to your country than you ever will.

Robots could easily replace most of the jobs they have.

 

[Rico]

You mean like programmers, head of major corporations, and high level jobs legal immigrants hold?

I'd like to see these robots, can you sell me some?

 

[Foxtrot]

You mean like programmers, head of major corporations, and high level jobs legal immigrants hold?

I'd like to see these robots, can you sell me some?

I have nothing against immigrants who got here by legal means and are able to speak English and be apart of society, not just a spanish society.

 

[MadHatter]

Ok so let me get this straight, you think U.S citizens of mexican or South american descent should not be paid as well as a white kid like you just because their parents were illegal immigrants? Does your idiocy know no boundaries or are you that big of a racist?

How about legal immigrants? Are they also stealing your jobs? Stealing your tax dollars and stealing your porno magazines to boot?

Answer me that, what of legal immigrants who come here for X reason to work and study and have their families? What makes you any better than them or more deserving of the jobs in America, you're an immigrant like them, an illegal immigrant most likely (guess what, the huge immigration wave from the 1900 - onwards consisted mostly of illegal immigrants) so really, if anyone should complain about the unfairness of people getting their jobs stolen it should be Native Americans.

I'm from South America and I moved here 4 years ago, I'm a legal immigrant and I speak both English and Spanish fluently. I have a few uncles and aunts who are U.S citizens and I have an aunt who gained citizenship through marriage, citizenship is not passed down because someone is your relative unless you are their dependent and even then, only if you're underage (under 21).

Want to know why a lot of these people don't immigrate here legally? Because it's a ****ing expensive pain in the ass that gets you less rights than what illegal immigrants get. Want to get a peek into what my life is like? A legal immigrant who's stealing your jobs?

I pay taxes, I study full time in a shitty oummunity college in hopes of transfer to a 4 year university after I get my core classes done (I can't get government scholarships like you "citizens" just because I wasn't born here, even though I graduated in the top 15% of my class), I pay 3 times the amount of tuition a "citizen" does and I'm not allowed to have ANY sort of job or I can risk being deported or it being put on my record (which will hinder any attempts to get a greencard). There are thousands of types of visas, F1 is the most common for international students, H4, H1, F2, F4... there's a ****ing book filled with letters like this about visa status. Each one limits you in different ways depending on what permissions you have. Guess what, each one of them costs a shitload of money most people can't even afford.

So here I am, paying 3 times the regular tuition, getting shit from people like you about getting their jobs stolen and talking as if being from another country is a bad thing, paying YOUR ****ING TAXES without any of the money actually going for personal benefits (I get no social security or tax returns, fun huh?) or for myself and I get the ability to live here and go to a college where I have to pay 3 times the tuition as you would. Oh, and to boot, I'm not allowed to get a job, not even on campus.

How's that for a slap in the face? Maybe you should respect these damn people because all in all, they have it a lot harder than you could ever imagine and they are contributing more to your country than you ever will.

Wait, so you're a citizen, right? Why do you pay 3 times more for tuition? Specify, please.

 

[Foxtrot]

Wait, so you're a citizen, right? Why do you pay 3 times more for tuition? Specify, please.

I think whatever country Rico is from is opposite of the US. In the US all the immigrants work crappy factory jobs, which are usually loading a finished product into a box or stacking them up to go into a box. And then moving the boxes onto a pellet, and then moving the pallet.

 

[CptStern]

says who? never seen a pakistani doctor? or chinese dentist? how about an engineer from Venezuela ...or is it only sons of immigrants who have white collar jobs?

 

[MadHatter]

I think whatever country Rico is from is opposite of the US. In the US all the immigrants work crappy factory jobs, which are usually loading a finished product into a box or stacking them up to go into a box. And then moving the boxes onto a pellet, and then moving the pallet.

Not all immigrants work jobs like that and are poor class people. Quite a few immigrants from countries like Venezuela, Argentina, French Guiana, Colombia have money and are able to fit in well with middle-class America. Of course, though, those types of immigrants are mainly all legal immigrants.

 

[Foxtrot]

Not all immigrants work jobs like that and are poor class people. Quite a few immigrants from countries like Venezuela, Argentina, French Guiana, Colombia have money and are able to fit in well with middle-class America. Of course, though, those types of immigrants are mainly all legal immigrants.

Sorry, I meant illegal immigrants. Stern, I have never seen any actually. Any of them that weren't white didn't have an accent either.

 

[MadHatter]

says who? never seen a pakistani doctor? or chinese dentist? how about an engineer from Venezuela ...or is it only sons of immigrants who have white collar jobs?

He's right ^ ^ ^. If you have one of the following two things, you can succeed well in America: Determination / will or money.

 

[Foxtrot]

He's right ^ ^ ^. If you have one of the two, you can succeed well in America: Determination / will or money.

You sure can, but you need to know the language.

 

[MadHatter]

You sure can, but you need to know the language.

As long as you can learn it and show that you're willing to learn languages, then it's all good.

 

[CptStern]

You sure can, but you need to know the language.

my dad didnt speak a word of english when he came to canada from spain ..he quickly got a blue collar job and now owns 3 houses and an apartment complex ...not too shabby for an immigrant who didnt speak english

 

[Foxtrot]

my dad didnt speak a word of english when he came to canada from spain ..he quickly got a blue collar job and now owns 3 houses and an apartment complex ...not too shabby for an immigrant who didnt speak english

Not too bad, but that is Canada. I don't think that would go in the US. If you can't communicate with anyone how are you suppose to get anywhere?

 

[MadHatter]

Ok so let me get this straight, you think U.S citizens of mexican or South american descent should not be paid as well as a white kid like you just because their parents were illegal immigrants? Does your idiocy know no boundaries or are you that big of a racist?

How about legal immigrants? Are they also stealing your jobs? Stealing your tax dollars and stealing your porno magazines to boot?

Answer me that, what of legal immigrants who come here for X reason to work and study and have their families? What makes you any better than them or more deserving of the jobs in America, you're an immigrant like them, an illegal immigrant most likely (guess what, the huge immigration wave from the 1900 - onwards consisted mostly of illegal immigrants) so really, if anyone should complain about the unfairness of people getting their jobs stolen it should be Native Americans.

I'm from South America and I moved here 4 years ago, I'm a legal immigrant and I speak both English and Spanish fluently. I have a few uncles and aunts who are U.S citizens and I have an aunt who gained citizenship through marriage, citizenship is not passed down because someone is your relative unless you are their dependent and even then, only if you're underage (under 21).

Want to know why a lot of these people don't immigrate here legally? Because it's a ****ing expensive pain in the ass that gets you less rights than what illegal immigrants get. Want to get a peek into what my life is like? A legal immigrant who's stealing your jobs?

I pay taxes, I study full time in a shitty oummunity college in hopes of transfer to a 4 year university after I get my core classes done (I can't get government scholarships like you "citizens" just because I wasn't born here, even though I graduated in the top 15% of my class), I pay 3 times the amount of tuition a "citizen" does and I'm not allowed to have ANY sort of job or I can risk being deported or it being put on my record (which will hinder any attempts to get a greencard). There are thousands of types of visas, F1 is the most common for international students, H4, H1, F2, F4... there's a ****ing book filled with letters like this about visa status. Each one limits you in different ways depending on what permissions you have. Guess what, each one of them costs a shitload of money most people can't even afford.

So here I am, paying 3 times the regular tuition, getting shit from people like you about getting their jobs stolen and talking as if being from another country is a bad thing, paying YOUR ****ING TAXES without any of the money actually going for personal benefits (I get no social security or tax returns, fun huh?) or for myself and I get the ability to live here and go to a college where I have to pay 3 times the tuition as you would. Oh, and to boot, I'm not allowed to get a job, not even on campus.

How's that for a slap in the face? Maybe you should respect these damn people because all in all, they have it a lot harder than you could ever imagine and they are contributing more to your country than you ever will.

I think you're missing the point of this thread. The dilemma is regarding the massive influx of illegal immigrants, not so much about the legal ones. Although I will share my opinions in regards to legal immigrants if the jist of this subject happens to include it.

 

[CptStern]

my dad came alone, he got a job where no one else spoke spanish ..he picked up the language because he had to ..he also speaks fluent french, italian and portugese so I'm sure that helped a bit

 

[MadHatter]

Not too bad, but that is Canada. I don't think that would go in the US. If you can't communicate with anyone how are you suppose to get anywhere?

Again, as long as you show the will to learn the languages spoken by the people, then there is no reason why you cannot gain admittance. America is a meritocratic society where the only limits are what you place on yourself.

 

[Foxtrot]

my dad came alone, he got a job where no one else spoke spanish ..he picked up the language because he had to ..he also speaks fluent french, italian and portugese so I'm sure that helped a bit

Ohh so he did learn the language, I thought he didn't.

 

[P-Lo]

I think you're missing the point of this thread. The dilemma is regarding the massive influx of illegal immigrants, not so much about the legal ones. Although I will share my opinions in regards to legal immigrants if the jist of this subject happens to include it.

It does. read the first post on this thread.

 

[MadHatter]

It does. read the first post on this thread.

Hmmmm... Then I stand corrected. All I saw when I skimmed through a few pages was crap about racism, bigots, Mexicans should go home, etc.

 

[Homer]

Just because its a pain in the ass doesn't mean you don't have to follow the law.

 

[Foxtrot]

Just like the South Park episode, if everyone comes here then we will all be just as miserable as they were in their country. It is kind of like a jar of cookies in your kitchen, you are only suppose to have one but you know that there are so many know one will know if you take 2. Well, everyone else does that and before long all the cookies are gone, DICK IN THE ASS!!! Just like what could happen to the US if every single person that thinks their country sucks decides the US would be a much better country to goto.