Interception

[Fluffy Kitten]

OK... where to start...
I'm just posting this here as a "this is my idea, stay away from it !" and to hear opinions / suggestions.

The theme of my mod idea is hunting / staying alive. One team are Hunters, and the other Runners.
The Hunters are strong, while the Runners are weak, and fairly obviously going by the names I've given each team, the Hunters hunt the Runners... that's pretty much the whole gameplay at its most basic.
Depending on how the gameplay feels when/if a basic version of it is set up, the Runners might be given the ability to 'buy' devices / talents like a cloaking device for temporary invisibility, or a ghosting thing like those twins in the Matrix for immunity to damage (again only temporary... the idea of such things would be to add to the lifespan of the Runners or get them out of tight situations rather than to allow them to comfortably attack the Hunters)

'Buying' would consist of each player having X amount of points per round to spend on various items to 'sculpt' their character to their suiting. The items wouldn't be items per se, but rather an extra couple of points on their health or armour, some grenades or the abilty to carry a few extra clips of ammo.

I want ammo to be 'important' and not to be wasted, unlike CS or NS's 'stock up on max ammo and spray it all over the place' feel, for a couple of reasons...
1/ To make killing a Runner slightly less easy, more skill based and less 'spray n' pray'.
2/ I want sound to be important, to add to the feel of hunting / being hunted. Gunshots all over the place would ruin that slightly.
3/ To add to the 'stress'. "oh no ! I only have 15 shots left !"

The 'stress' is part of the fun... like when you're playing a CTF game and are running towards your base with the enemy flag on the winning run, all the while having bullets from the 3 enemies chasing you flying past. The 'stress' is the reason the Runners are weaker than the Hunters, before anyone jumps on me saying that's odd or the wrong way around. If you knew you could comfortably take on a Hunter as a Runner, where would be point in running ?

The actual gameplay I'm not 100% on at the moment, past the hunting / staying alive bit... there're many variations of the theme, and I'm not sure which would be best to go with at the moment. (as time went on it'd make sense to add some of the variations in as alternate gameplay modes, but to begin with things should be kept simple)
A couple of the variations that come to mind right now are...

A/ A "CS-like" system... there is a set time limit per round, say 5 minutes or something. The aim of the Hunters is to kill all of the Runners before the time limit runs out, if they don't then the Runners win.

B/ A points system... the Runners get X amount of points the longer they manage to stay alive, with the bonus' increasing as time goes on. (ie/ 1 point for being alive for 1 minute, 2 for 2 minutes, etc) The Hunters get points
for killing the Runners. This'd probably have another round time limit to it, with whatever team has the most points at the end winning. While this idea has the ability to be constantly going (no "damn, I died... now I have to wait 4
minutes before I can play again") it'd also be an absolute sod to balance, with every map being easier or harder to survive in than the last. (ie/ a map of a big, empty field will have more Runner deaths than a map of a skyscraper)

C/ A relay system... something similar to CS's old es_ (escape) game mode, with several 'exits' dotted around the map. When the game begins each Runner is given an exit they have to get to to score points, when they get there they're given another one, and so on and so on. The more 'exits' they can get through in a row, the more points they get.

Obviously A would be the easiest to have to begin with, and will probably be the one I go with. C also looks do-able, but it'd be best to just keep everything as simple as possible until it's proven that the game works in HL2.
I made a 'mission' for Operation Flashpoint (with technical help from someone who knew how to do clever stuff that enhanced the basic gameplay) based on a similar theme as this, and it seemed to go down well. Apparently it's been stuck on the Jolt OFP servers. So I know the concept works, it's just whether it works in HL2 that I'm wondering about.

As you can see from my wording, whether I'll ever make this I'm not sure... I do want to make it, and have no intention of quitting, but sadly my unintended 'gap year' will probably end with a return to college in September, which will obviously have to take priority over making a mod, so unless Valve get their skates on I'm screwed.
Also I'd more than likely need lots of outside help... I have a 'jack of all trades, master of none' thing going on, where I can do a bit of everything, but can't do any one thing exceptionally well. I don't want to be one of those people who tries to recruit a team to do all the work for them either... so my plan is to keep things as simple as humanly possible and harvest vast amounts of stuff from the basic HL2 resources.

Sooo... questions ? comments ? suggestions ?


PS. Imaginary prizes to the first person to tell me what inspired this idea... the clue is in the title.

 

[ComradeBadger]

/me wubbles Fluffy Kitten

I like it

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Sounds like Running Man to me, which is quite a good idea. I can't really find anything majorly wrong with it.

You'd find, if you were to develop it, that it would evolve over time anyway. I like it. Good work

 

[Onions]

go on fluffy, base it on Logans Run

 

[Konfuzzyus]

From the overall look of it I suppose it could work... And the workload you are facing is only modest (map, gametype, ability system...) so you coud pull this on your own up to an alpha state I suppose, IF you have the coding skills...

What I would think through more intensely is how the players will navigate the maps... I suppose the Runners will be a bit faster (or more agile, increased jumping height, mantling etc.) than the Hunters, so they'll have to set up ambushes or they won't be able to catch them, so the preset is that there actually are places to set up ambushes, map layout and perhaps some special navigation abilities (doors that only open for hunters?) are critical...

Also type C looks most promising to me... though I guess testing will show the one which plays best

 

[Fluffy Kitten]

Having the priority being "making it look nice" seems wrong, somehow.

If HL2 / the SDK do come out before September and/or I have enough spare time to work on this, I can't see the time being plentiful... that's why I'm saying most if not all of the looks of the game will be recycled from HL2 to begin with. It's not much of a mod if it's all looks and no actual gameplay.
Obviously if people actually started playing it and it collected more than 5 regular players I'll dash off to the help wanted forum crying for modellers and such, but I really don't think it's a priority in the beginning.
Sadly simplicity will be the theme of this mod to begin with, but as time goes on there are more and more things that could be done to complicate it, such as improved models, different gameplay modes, etc... I'm just being realistic of my abilitys.
(In fact, I might even be being a smidge optimistic... I know I'm going to get stuck occaisonally, it's just a matter of whether I'll be able to find solutions to my problems, or have to whore myself out to other mod teams, trading the things I can do well in exchange for help in the things I can't. )


The 2/3 'fake bullets' doesn't sound like something that'd go down well... I can see the screams of "OMG BULLET REG SUCKS" now. A similar effect could probably be done (slightly more easily, coding wise ) by dropping the number of bullets per clip / upping reload time. Gun-wise I'm probably only going to want 2 or 3 in the game... an SMG for the hunters, and a pistol + crowbar for each team. Simplicity is the key. The fewer guns there are in the game, the easier it is to tamper with things until it feels 'right'.

I'm not overly keen on the idea of the Runners setting up traps for the Hunters... it sounds like just using the physics system for the sake of it. I guess such traps would be entirely down to the map makers anyway, so even if I don't put it in as a feature, it's still possible.
I do however like the idea of the Runners knocking things over as they go to slow down anyone chasing them, or moving tables in front of doors ala traptown. Those things seem a little more like what people would do if they were being chased.
Having the Hunters set up ambushes to catch the Runners seems unnecessary... unless it ends up added in a later game mode, the Hunters don't actually have to *catch* anyone, they just have to shoot them, which can happily be done from a distance even if the Runners are moving a bit faster. But, as before... if some mappers decided they wanted an alleyway with a big stack of barrels for the Hunters to knock over, that's up to them.

Anyway, I'm liking the praise, and ta for the suggestions thus far. I'm half tempted to go back to my dodgy nowhere-near-finished version I had a play about with in HL1, and try to work past the problem I got stuck on.

 

[Fluffy Kitten]

Ahhh, I misunderstood what you meant by 'polishing'.
The only reason I'm even considering trying to make the mod is because *in theory* it should be easy to make. (well, easy compared to some of the other ideas out there)

Obviously I can't say this for a HL2 based version, but in the OFP version being a Runner was quite a laugh. I was a little worried at first that it'd be boring, but it was surprising how easily you could pass off stress and panic as fun.
Thinking about it, the OFP gameplay could be transplanted across, but it'd have to be in a much later version where I was either more competent at coding or had help.

As with most Operation Flashpoint missions, it was on a big island. There were 3 teams : The East, The West and The Resistance. The Resistance were the hunters, and had helicopters and jeeps and such at their start. The East and West were the runners, and started at opposite ends of the island. The first team to reach the other sides start won. (and obviously the Resistance won by killing the lot of them)
It had a fun "my enemys enemy is my friend" quality to it, and ensured that the Hunters couldn't just camp one of the finish points, or the Runners couldn't just hide in a building somewhere, as the other team might reach their end point and win.

I think for being a Runner to be fun in the way I want it to be, there'd have to be several 'stages' of being hunted that you could go between... safe, 'they know you're here somewhere', being physically chased, and being all but dead. The whole feel of the game would be ruined if the moment you were spotted it was just a matter of time before you get killed.
The most tense and fun moments in the OFP version were the 'they know you're here somewhere' ones... I still remember how in the first test of the mission I was driving happily down the road when a helicopter suddenly appeared overhead, and I dived into the nearby bushes and spent somewhere between 5 and 10 minutes just crawling along in them with the helicopter buzzing around the area, knowing I was down there somewhere. Even my team-mate who suggested we split up at the start and got himself killed was having a laugh as he watched us on spec mode.
(Sadly I was eventually gunned down when I realised I'd have to leave the hedge eventually and made a break for a nearby village )

Anyway, enough rambling... if anything pops into your mind to make running more fun, let me know. I'm grateful for any sensible suggestions.

 

[Sorze]

I think it sounds really good!

I'm just worried about camping if you go for a cs-style round gameplay. I mean the runners have to be forced to go somewhere, otherwise they'll just find a sweet hidingplace, and stay there until they win the round. Then they'll realize it's no fun and go play another mod......
I think the ofp 'edition' of this sounded incredibly cool, though. I think having two teams of runners that have to get to certain places is a good idea, that probably makes being a hunter more fun as well.
I think less is more as well, I'm glad to hear people say that! Polishing and balancing gameplay is key!

err, yeah.. good luck

 

[Fluffy Kitten]

Well, it's not in some of the earlier examples.

Another anti-llama feature in the OFP version was that the Resistance got a nice map update every 5 minutes telling them where each player was. Although to make it slightly more fair it just noted the runners positions at 4 minutes, then 'uploaded' them to the Resistances maps 1 minute later. As much as I'd like to lay claim to that, it was someone elses idea and code... that sort of thing was a bit above me.
I'm guessing any anti-llama features would have to be thought up after there was a working version of the game, as you can't really guess at what lameness people will do that works and wrecks games... no matter what you can think up, there's always a step further.

 

[Neutrino]

Interesting idea you have there. I just had to comment that that is the most smilies I think I have ever seen in one thread.

 

[Fluffy Kitten]

You clearly don't read the Natural Selection forums... people there illustrate epic battles using the marine and alien 'smileys'.

I do like my smiley faces, though.

 

[weerat]

Ok, I've not read all the posts in their entirety so I apologise if I repeat anything that has gone before but I like the initial idea.

I think it would be nice to see it set up just like a real game hunt with the hunted players capable of doing little more than run. In other words do not arm the runners. Their sole purpose is survival. However, these runners are highly agile, able to leap/wall bounce etc (like monkehs).

When a round starts all players are runners apart from one who is armed. His job is to hunt out and kill the runners. When they die, they join the hunter. This ensures that as the number of runners drops the number of hunters increases. The last remaining runner is declared the winner and the next round begins with the first runner that was killed as the hunter.


I like the idea of having no option other than to run. It could get quite exciting as you hurtle away from a hunter only to run into another one round a corner. The pressure would really build as more and more runners are converted to hunters.

 

[Fluffy Kitten]

That's an interesting idea for a gameplay mode, but possibly a little over my abilitys.

The problem with it that I can see though is that the running team ceases to be a team... it's just a group of individuals doing the same thing.
(and the first Runner that was killed is likely to the worst player on the server... I'm not sure it's such a good idea to put them alone against everyone in the next round )

At the risk of referring to the Matrix twice in the same idea thread, think of the Runners taking on a Hunter like one of the Zion-ites taking on an Agent. You'd probably lose, but it's nice to have the option. Plus if the Runners are unarmed the Hunters have pretty much zero chance of dying, and no sense of 'value' to their lives.
They wouldn't be armed to the teeth but enough to be like a cornered cat, so the Hunters don't just blindly charge about after them.

 

[torso boy]

i think that this is a very nice idea.

One thought for the runners though i think would be kind of like in splinter cell 2 multiplayer, the runners would be highly mobile so they would be able to climb up into trees, run faster, jump higher...but their weapon would mainly just stun and damage slightly, but if they got in with their close range weapon it would be a one-hit kill..whick would bring more strategy into the game, lie bob distracts the hunter while jim climbs down from a tree and kills the hunter from behind, and then hunters would be more cautious because a runner may sneak up and kill him when he's not expecting it

 

[Fluffy Kitten]

I'm torn over the 'Hunters strong at long range, Runners strong at short range' idea... (I've been going over this mod idea in my head for months, pretty much everything has crossed my mind at some point ) while it might add a bit of fun to the gameplay, the Runners would probably see it as their primary way of winning. While the humour of a fully armed 'soldier' running away from a bloke with a crowbar would be good in the odd game here or there, it'd be rubbish if it happened every game.

It especially wouldn't work combined with the Runners being faster... ever played NS Combat as an alien and got focus in the first 30 seconds ? Until the marines get armour 1 and you're no longer '1 hit, 1 kill' you're just pure death. (One of the reasons I don't like Combat)


Also, since no-one's claimed the imaginary prize, the initial inspiration for this idea was an old 80's gameshow called 'Interceptor'.
http://www.interceptors-lair.com/htmldocs/title/index.htm for anyone curious.

 

[weerat]

Well, the fact that you've thought about the idea a lot is a good start. Seeing as you have multiple design routes to consider you need to test them asap. Peter Molyneux (Black and White Designer) suggests that the best way to see if an idea works is to implement it as quickly as possible. It doesn't have to be tidy, it just needs to give you an idea of it's potential.

When I was working on my HL mod some years ago we knew the idea would work because we had already made a rough test of the idea. We coded the basic requirements, and then just used default weapons (with damage tweaks) and agreed to play by the rules that would be in place had we coded it in full. Obviously it relied on us behaving ourselves as the game rules were not coded, likewise for most of the content. However, when playing within our agreed rules, simulating our concept, we could see the idea would work and could therefore commit to producing the mod in full.

I would suggest you do the same thing if you are keen on this idea. The fact that we had prototyped beforehand was extremely useful and I feel the exact same can be done with your mod ideas. In fact, the idea you put forward has many similarities to the aforementioned mod we made. Obviously this depends on your abilities but a mod is always possible if you put your mind to it. If you do have the necessary skills/enthusiasm you could even whip up a prototype with the HL1 engine just like we did. Test it with some friends and see which ideas/rules have the most potenttial.