Iraq Arrests Two British Soldiers: Britain Negotiates With Tanks

[SAJ]

Sad to say but the illegality of the Iraqi police detaining British armed forces may well be correct. It would come down to the agreement signed by the puppet -that is to say, freely elected- Iraqi administration, that grants coalition forces immunity from prosecution(something that putting them in a cell would be a clear breach of).

Whats also interesting is the army "negotiated" their way into the police station using improvised access instruments(aka;tanks), before they knew that the men were being held by local militias (if, that is indeed the case). Whatever the merits of the case , the damage done to the Iraqi government is immense, their standing in the community will probably nosedive even in the shia heartland and all thanks to some SPG-style British diplomacy.
Oh , and I just love the way the media are linking Iran to this story, boy they just never miss a trick.

If you live outside the uk and want a good laugh ,try this: find any of the major papers from the uk(or bbc) and read their articles on this story. Read them out loud , and in your best "posh" accent, its blody hilarious.

 

[Razor]

Sad to say but the illegality of the Iraqi police detaining British armed forces may well be correct. It would come down to the agreement signed by the puppet -that is to say, freely elected- Iraqi administration, that grants coalition forces immunity from prosecution(something that putting them in a cell would be a clear breach of).

Whats also interesting is the army "negotiated" their way into the police station using improvised access instruments(aka;tanks), before they knew that the men were being held by local militias (if, that is indeed the case). Whatever the merits of the case , the damage done to the Iraqi government is immense, their standing in the community will probably nosedive even in the shia heartland and all thanks to some SPG-style British diplomacy.
Oh , and I just love the way the media are linking Iran to this story, boy they just never miss a trick.

If you live outside the uk and want a good laugh ,try this: find any of the major papers from the uk(or bbc) and read their articles on this story. Read them out loud , and in your best "posh" accent, its blody hilarious.

What would you have done in the situation then?

Fact 1: You have to of your soldiers undercover and they're arrested by police (who for all reports and accounts are now infested with insurgents and terrorists) and put in jail...
Fact 2: You negotiate to the release of the soldiers into your custody to find out what happened...
Fact 3: The Iraqi government tells the police (who for all reports and accounts are now infested with insurgents and terrorists) to release the British personnel into the hands of the Britisih forces
Fact 4: The police (who for all reports and accounts are now infested with insurgents and terrorists) refuse.
Fact 5: You hear reports that the 2 British soldiers have been handed over or are going to be handed over to insurgent forces.
Fact 6: Insurgent forces torture and murder hundreds of people in Iraq everyday planting car bombs and murdering innocent civilians.
Fact 7: You have only a few hours at the very most to act and all negotiations have broken down and going no where due to the local police refusing orders from their superiours.

What do you do?
What would Cpt.Stern do?

Negotiations have broken down, 2 British soldiers are going to be handed over or already been handed over to terrorists, what do you do?

And the tabloid newspapers are not a reliable source of information, especially the Sun, the Daily Mirror, the Daily Star, Daily Sport, etc, etc.

Look at sites such as the bbc, sky news, etc.

The thread title is also highly misleading and dubious as all reports say that negotiations had broken down and that British forces rescued their comrades from certain death and torture from insurgents ment on creating civil war and civil unrest and murder and rape and...

 

[Griz]

Illegal? You want to talk about legality? Gitmo, along with many other US military prisons, are considered illegal by internation law.

I could not agree more (i am totally opposed to the very idea of Guantanamo Bay) but two wrongs don't make a right. The FACT is that the continued detention of these British soldiers, after official requests for them to be handed over to the MOD, was illegal under Iraqi law.

Occupying forces? Bush has made it clear that we are not a occupying force any more.

I couldn't give a shit wtf George Bush says. That FACT is that we (the coalition forces) are illegally occupying Iraq, ergo i believe the term "occupying forces" to be correct.

And I agree, I think these man should have been rescued if their life was truly in danger. I am simply simply pointing out the hypocracy of the occupying forces in Iraq and that Iraq is not really a real sovereign country like Bush and Blair continually claim. This is a clear example that things are still not going well in that country and won't for a very long time, it would have been much better to stay the hell out in the first place. And guess what, people were telling you this before we went to war.

Again, I could not agree more. Right from the start, i have been absolutely opposed to this illegal war started by Bush and Blair and i honestly don't believe the occupation will ever truly cease. Regardless of when coalition forces pull out (if they ever do in their entirety) the remaining Government will always contain US / UK puppets.

so then every person at gitmo is guilty? then why havent any of them been charged with anything? regardless if justified or not the militants would think the imprisonment is unjustified ..same goes for the british troops ...doesnt mean the iraqi police felt it was unjustified

Where exactly did i mention Guantanamo Bay in any of my posts? I'm not naive, i don't believe for one second that every person in Gitmo is guilty - hence my abhoration for the place. Furthermore, i also don't believe i ever said that the initial imprisonment of these two SAS soldiers was unjust. Quite the contrary, i think it was. But what was wrong (and illegal) was not only the apparent refusal by Iraqi police to turn these guys over the the MOD upon request, but to then hand them over to Shi'ite militia. Just to clarify, i don't believe these guys should be back in active service until a full investigation has been carried out into the events leading up to their arrest. And if such an investigation were to find that they unlawfully killed or injured any civilian or legitimate police officer, then they should be court martialed.

 

[Jandor]

Illegal? You want to talk about legality? Gitmo, along with many other US military prisons, are considered illegal by internation law.

These are British troops, that's a US prison.

Use a British prison as an example please.

 

[who]

probably not a great idea talking about prisons with USA right now.. if you know what i mean.. maybe the majority of usa dont even know its happening, we do live in a world of propaganda on all levels.

 

[smwScott]

I fail to see the problem. The Iraqi police were acting illegally and refused to give up the prisoners. There was also a strong possibility that the prisoners could be handed over to militia, where they would either be tortured/murdered or taken hostage and used as negotiation leverage. They responded quickly (although not too efficiently) and saved the soldiers. This was a rational and thoroughly sound decision, even if it did cost support among civilians.

If anything this will cause the Iraqi police to respect the laws its nation is currently operating under and not go vigilante. If the British hadn't done this they would probably have taken it as weakness and veered further away from established principle.

 

[Flyingdebris]

I can just imagine in my head some guy with a monocle, a pipe, bad teeth and a large mustache riding atop the tank shouting out some clever british wit, and when the tank busts through the wall, everything turns into a comical benny hill chase sequence in fast motion. At some point some hot lady's clothes fall off for no reason

 

[OCybrManO]

That's sort of how I imagined it... but with the inclusion of some of Detective Inspector Derek Grim's rambling, mangled sayings:

"This can be summed up in one word - organised crime."

[about how to deal with persistent offenders] "You nick 'em, you lock 'em up and you throw away the door!"

"Obstructing CID in the course of their investigations, Raymond? That's a very serious offence, I've half a mind to charge you!"
Inspector Fowler: "You have half a mind... full stop."

"I’ve got a tough job on and need your cooperation. It’s pretty urgent, so I won’t beat around the proverbial privet. Frankly, I’m too busy a man to be cluck clucking away like a decapitated feathered fowl, so I’ll get straight to the point."
Inspector Fowler: “Glad to hear it”.
"Time waits for no man, and what I say is in CID crime waits for no man, so if you don’t mind I’ll cut the bovine faeces altogether. This is CID work mate, and in CID we dispense with niceties, we avoid irrelevances, we disgard herrings, red or otherwise, and above all we do not fanny about."
(Inspector Grim starts to walk away) Inspector Fowler: “Inspector Grim, is there something you want to discuss?”
"It’s my backside on the line, and I’m right up to my neck in it."

"Right then Constable Habib, you’re with CID now and we do things a bit differently. Oh yes, oh yes, when you run us up the flagpole you’ll find you’re saluting a very different kettle of fish."

"Dear oh dear, Raymond, you do not half go on with your high and mighty, up your jacksy, snooty snotty, dib dib dob, excuse me, scout’s honour, not bleeding croquet, load of old cobblers."

"It’s all darn posh snob brainy, bloody hoity toity, up your bum and pardon me for living."

"A violent disgusting drug pusher walked free because of your goody goody, lardy dardy, namby, hoity, wishy, pamby, toity, washy, dardy, lardy, know it all, public school stiff upper lip, stiff upper house master, prim and proper, Rule Brittania…"

"Well, be quick, don’t fanny about. I’ve no time for fannying about or otherwise. Fanny about on someone else’s time, not mine, ‘cos I haven’t got any. Find someone who’s got time to fanny about and fanny about with them. I haven’t mate, so fannying about with me is out."

"A camping trip? A camping trip? Blimey! I’m not having you disgracing this station with a load of wishy washy didums, half cock, up your social worker, foldy rolled, blame it on society, psycho sicko claptrap crap."

"It’s my arse, and if you stuff it I’m going to be very red in the face."

"The problem can be summed up in one word – organised crime. Motors, stolen in Gasforth, are being driven across the Channel."
D.C. Kray: “Blimey, you’d need a decent underseal. Ha ha”.
"Local delinquents nick the cars and flog them on to Mr. Big. He’s out there somewhere, a fat cap spinning his web with his tentacles in every pie."
D.C. Kray: “Shouldn’t be too hard to spot then”.

"Bleeding ballet and opera – especially when they spend lottery money on it. Wasting the working man’s bet on fat screeching old bags from Italy singing like they have got piles. Or some bunch of scrawny bincing tutus called Darcy and Tilda fleshing their gussets at a lot of horny perverts. Art, culture – staring at posh bird’s nickers. That all what Swan bleeding Lake boils down to. Not hoity hoity, stick it it up you toity, high and mighty, tight nose, toffy arse, sun-dried tomato-eating, lardy dardy daahs."

"Blimey! Sharing the gents with a load of women – it’s a disgrace! The place will stink like the perfume counter of Bootes. They’ll be in there dibby dabby lippy lappy powder poofing barny poofing and squirty squirty. Only be a minute, I’ve got to regrout me crow’s feet. I get this at home you know, tweezering and plucking and using my Bic on her legs, and slapping the glandular oils of some dead whale around like it didn’t cost fifteen quid a jar, which I have to bleeding earn. I shout “Come on Tina!” She says “ I’m just going to have five minutes on the bum wobbling machine”. Then she leaves the top off the toothpaste. Blimey Fowler, I thought at least at work we could keep the birds out of the bog. And doesn’t time fly when you are hanging around outside the bog waiting for a bunch of women to stop fannying about. Women, all the same, totally toiletarily territorial."

"The vile scourge of drugs has arrived in Gasforth. Some people won’t admit it, but I for one am not gonna bury my head in an ostrich. Kids are already taking ‘e’, openly, in clubs, and that is only the thin end of the bush. Today it’s ‘e’, next week it might be ‘f’, possibly even ‘g’. I’m gonna clean up this town Boyle, drugs are the effluence of society, and I’m the toilet duck. I’ll show these bloody kids, when Grim of Gasforth puts his backside on the line they can’t just stick two fingers up."

"I say “Tina, we are leaving at 7:30, not a quarter to eight, not next year, not in another lifetime when we’ve come back as a couple of insects that only live for a year which she’d spend in the bathroom, putting mascara on her antennae and trying to stick three hundred contact lenses into her multiple eyes and lipsticking her spiracles and blonding her folicles. I say “Right, I’m waiting in the car”. She says “Well, wait in the car”. I say “I will wait in the car”. She says “Right, go and wait in the car”. I say “I’m going out to the car”. She says “You go to the car”. It grinds you down. Listen Fowler, this is the sharp end mate. Not jolly cricket bats lovely boating weather don’t you know Oxford and Cambridge row row row and hoist your little cox above your head. This is football, and football is not a game. But obviously it is a game. But it is also not a game. I mean even though it is a game there is no point treating it as a game because it is not a game although it clearly is a game. Alright Boyle with me, let’s go go go."

"Right you lot, shut it. Strewth Fowler my son, all looks a bit pear-shaped round here or what. The govenor’s talking, Saturday’s game, very dodgy, very naughty, could go a little pear-shaped. If there’s a rough things might be well iffy. These faces are a little bit hard, know what I mean, a little bit of oof, have some of that my son, bosh, sorted, ta ta, got me, so be clever. Good, now shut it!"

"They were all there. The snooty snotty, toity hoity, farty arty, decaffenated, fruit flavoured tea bag, semi skinned cream of Gasforth elite. It’s my arse on the line, so you had better pull your finger out."

... err... I may have gone a bit too far with the quotes. Do you think so?

 

[Razor]

To those people who are modifying the situation and posing the hyperthetical situation that "oh you wouldn't say that if the Iraqi's attacked Gitmo to rescue their comrades"...that would be all well and fine as long as that hyperthetical situation matched this one i.e. the American government tells the Gitmo commander to release 2 Iraqi prisoners to which they refuse and then hand over to local Ku Klux Klan members bent on overthrowing the American government and ethnically cleansing America and Cuba. Iraqi commandoes armed with tanks go in and rescue the 2 Iraqi prisoners to find they had already been handed over to the kkk, so they attack the kkk headquarters and rescue their countrymen.

The American government = Iraqi Government
Gitmo commander = Iraqi Police Commander
KKK = local militia group
2 Iraqi Prisoners = 2 British Prisoners.

 

[ComradeBadger]

I have read this thread and I must say it is hilarious. You can see people who don't agree on the war in Iraq agreeing with each other on this issue. And then No Limit just randomly accusing Feath of being right-wing and other things.

Politics isn't a single issue or black and white.

 

[Razor]

Politics isn't a single issue or black and white.

Thinking that makes you a right wing liberal.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Badger is an evil neocon. D:

 

[Flyingdebris]

i see politics as a bunch of shit happening and everyone trying to pidgeonhole it into either the good category (you're own political outlook) or the bad category (The opposite of your outlook)

i.e. Rep vs Dem, Capitalism vs Communism, dogs vs cats, for the war or against.

thats why i say f*ck it, i'll just sit back and make fun of the news for a while

 

[redhollowpoint]

such a double standard, if this would have been america doing this you all would have been up in arms

 

[Jandor]

Yes.

Because the U.S. army would have used a squadron of Stealth Bombers and half a dozen cruise missiles.

 

[Solaris]

Yes.

Because the U.S. army would have used a squadron of Stealth Bombers and half a dozen cruise missiles.

As scouts

 

[Jandor]

^^ Funny