Iraqi prisoners beaten with baseball bat

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Sulkdodds said:
I don't see how you can claim that these acts by American soldiers were simply isolated incidents, then make broad sweeping generalisations about how all Iraqi insurgents would beat prisoners and cut of their heads.
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Concurred in full.

Even if the generalizations are true, I don't see how that would justify this treatment in return.
 
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-09-23-army-abuse-investigation_x.htm?csp=24

"A lot of people have heard about this before. But I don't think they have heard a West Point-educated officer who fought on the front lines in Iraq and Afghanistan say what happened was wrong, what happened was systemic, and was the result of leadership failures,"
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This is disgusting. How can you support this. How can you justify this even in the slightest?

The pro-war, Bush administration supporters are the first ones to yell back "We are spreading our freedom and our democracy to the people of Iraq."

So in line with that, you think it'd be alright to arrest someone here in the states, and without a trial, with out a guilty verdict. Beat him with in inches of his life, break his arms and legs, torture him for no reason other than "sport"? If thats the "American way" you guys are spreading, then frankly, you can stick it up your ass.
 
I don't think any sane person would support the beating of prisoners. Those soldiers should have declined the order, realizing it is a war crime. People that beat prisoners shouldn't be allowed to stay in the military. We need to treat our prisoners very nicely. It is always best to give the enemy a reason to surrender and not a reason to fight harder.
 
The administration demanded that soldiers extract information from detainees without telling them what was allowed and what was forbidden. Yet when abuses inevitably followed, the leadership blamed the soldiers in the field instead of taking responsibility.
Tom Malinowski, Washington Director of Human Rights Watch

Human right Report and further links to the testomonies

Chilling reading.

If this is the price of liberation heaven help us all.
 
I would be happy as a prisoner as long as they didn't make me watch fear factor. Man, fear factor blows.
 
from a memo dated dec 2002:

Department of Defense summarizing approved methods of interrogation, with annotation from Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld

Rumsfeld himself wrote:


"however, I stand for 8-10 hours a day. Why is standing limited to 4 hours?"




source, interesting read



reveals a bit of the sadistic side of Rumsfeld plus it's indisputable evidence that they were full aware of the torture from the very begining
 
baxter said:
The administration demanded that soldiers extract information from detainees without telling them what was allowed and what was forbidden. Yet when abuses inevitably followed, the leadership blamed the soldiers in the field instead of taking responsibility.
Tom Malinowski, Washington Director of Human Rights Watch

Human right Report and further links to the testomonies

Chilling reading.

If this is the price of liberation heaven help us all.
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You were never in the military were you?
 
CptStern said:
"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A U.S. Army captain and two sergeants recounted in a Human Rights Watch report on Friday how Iraqi inmates near Falluja were beaten with a baseball bat, stacked clothed in pyramids, deprived of food and water and put in painful positions until they fainted.

The abuse often occurred under orders or with the consent of superior officers, said the captain, who served in Iraq and Afghanistan."

source


the abuse and torture of prisoners is systematic
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Good, they deserve it.
 
Why, becuase they defended their country?

So you dont belive in human rights?
 
Well of course not, you UTTER MORON. Only SISSIES believe in human rights.
 
yes some Of them deserve it,but alot of times people are accused of being terrorists or what ever and they never did anything,so torture isnt a good idea. Their is a chance where you beat someone up and give his balls a schock even thoe that person is not guilty or doesnt have any useful info
there for they should be punished and the people at the top shoud stop making orders like that




btw soldiers should be punished I mean
 
B.Calhoun said:
Good, they deserve it.
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so you dont believe they deserve fair treatment? that they dont warrent individual rights, they deserve torture? ..well then dont complain when they butcher american soldiers, or behead prisoners because incidents such as these legitimize their use of inhumane methods
 
The replies to some of these kinds of topics seriously do depress me.
 
Absinthe said:
The replies to some of these kinds of topics seriously do depress me.
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quote them :p



seriously,I think that some people are brain washed by Fox etc...
otherwise thye wouldnt make comments like shoot "them on the spot"

but then again thats just their opnion.
but I really I think that when your 120% sure the person knows something of importance. and his knowledge might save lifes,a lil head in cold water is justefied imo
 
Lemonking said:
in your opinon its wrong
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We could play the opinion game all we want. Sidestepping that, however, is the question of "What's the god damn point?". Beating the shit out of your prisoners is not going to stop the insurgency. At the least, you'll only justify their aggression. And they're more likely to go out in a bloody firefight rather than surrender themselves. The beatings themselves aren't even that great a way to extract information.

Level heads save lives. This kind of behavior, wether for the purpose of fun or old-fashioned revenge, doesn't do anybody any favors. Let the justice system handle them.
 
"so you dont believe they deserve fair treatment? that they dont warrent individual rights, they deserve torture? ..well then dont complain when they butcher american soldiers, or behead prisoners because incidents such as these legitimize their use of inhumane methods"



There is a difference beheading and beating. I'm not saying that either one is right but beheading is a lot worse than beating, stern. Its preposterous to even say something like that. If they were beating American soldiers then its the same but they're killing our boys. If we killed every Iraqi then I guess you could say it was "fair" or what have you.
 
Imagine treating the insurgents with fairness and dignity so that they could see that the ideas of western civilization aren't as bad as they think. This war isn't going to be won with killing and torture, but with humanitarian aid and kindness.
 
There is no amount of kindness and fairness that will change their (insurgency) thinking. Te insurgency don't want western values or culture, they want islamic culture and values to be dominant.
 
southernman17 said:
There is no amount of kindness and fairness that will change their (insurgency) thinking. Te insurgency don't want western values or culture, they want islamic culture and values to be dominant.
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:rolleyes:

The insugency needs to be fought on a root ideological level - a long and involving task. In any case, living up to you supposed title of being just and civilized will result in far less damage than bashing your POW's head in with a two-by-four. For somebody who talks about insurgent culture and values, then you should be quite aware of the idea of martyrdom.

If you don't understand that concept, then I'll take my leave and allow somebody with more patience to explain it to you in further detail.
 
Yes I agree that the only way to quash the insurgency would be to change their whole way of thinking about islamic culture but that isn't going to happen. That'll be like trying to convince Americans to accept communism or more socialistic values, its not going to happen anytime soon (or ever). The radical islamic insurgency won't change their opionion about becoming matyrs or what have you in any foreseeable future. Maybe some of the less radical ones will but not the majority.
 
CptStern said:
so you dont believe they deserve fair treatment? that they dont warrent individual rights, they deserve torture? ..well then dont complain when they butcher american soldiers, or behead prisoners because incidents such as these legitimize their use of inhumane methods
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Thats exactly the reason they deserve it, even if all of the US soldiers didnt even so much as lay a hand on one of them the terrorists would still be killing/torturing the US captives.

I mean, if I(or mostly anyone for that matter) was over in Iraq right now, and some of my buddies were KIA or captured(being killed/tortured), hell I think most people do the same to them.

And FYI, if it doesnt hit home for you, like it does for me (im not starting a pity post or anything here) then you need to stop and think about it for a second. My Uncle as made two tours in Iraq already and I lost a family member in the World trade center. So please stop ALWAYS taking the side of the Iraqis like i see you do in jsut about EVERY thread you make.
 
B.Calhoun said:
And FYI, if it doesnt hit home for you, like it does for me (im not starting a pity post or anything here) then you need to stop and think about it for a second. My Uncle as made two tours in Iraq already and I lost a family member in the World trade center. So please stop ALWAYS taking the side of the Iraqis like i see you do in jsut about EVERY thread you make.
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Acting like a ****ing animal doesn't shorten your uncle's stay.

And my apologies, but what the hell does the WTC have to do with anything?
 
Absinthe said:
Acting like a ****ing animal doesn't shorten your uncle's stay.

And my apologies, but what the hell does the WTC have to do with anything?
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Its about someone basicly taking the side of people who do these horrible things, WTC being one of them. Then saying its all the American soldiers fault, when its the terrorists who are doing so much more torturing and killing captives.
 
Its about someone basicly taking the side of people who do these horrible things, WTC being one of them
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You do know that Iraq had nothing to do with the WTC dont you?
Typical American weakness; all the guns on the planet and a primitive grasp of geography.
 
All opinions are valid. In my opinion, the earth is a flat disk supported on the back of a giant tortoise.

...News flash: NO, IT ISN'T.

Damn Americans.
 
SAJ said:
You do know that Iraq had nothing to do with the WTC dont you?
Typical American weakness; all the guns on the planet and a primitive grasp of geography.
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you are being ignorant,dont generalize
 
southernman17 said:
**** off raven. If you hate Americans move out asshole.
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What would that solve? You and yours would still be in support of an obvious atrocity.
 
southernman17 stop it, most people are lefties here all they will do is bash you with your opinion.
 
I don't support the war or the atrocities commited by either group.


Sorry for the comment. I'm just venting about Americans who take America for advantage. I fully realize we have freedom of speech and all that good stuff but a comment like that will piss me off.
 
Just put yourself in a bystander's shoes and imagine watching a helpless iraqi surronded by 10 soldiers, each one of them beating the shit out of him with billy clubs. Not that they don't do that to us, but were the one's who are supposed to be changing their culture for the better; beating the shit out of helpless prisoners will do nothing to further our cause, but will make us like those animals who behead helpless prisoners. Revenge may be sweet, but western culture teaches that one should love his enemy.
 
Every culture in the world has that "Golden Rule", treat others as you would want to be treated. I see your point though. But it is equally horrific if you are an American and seeing citizens being beheaded and beaten and killed. Its hard for both groups of good Americans and iraqis to see that happen to people.
 
You're attempting to justify it by saying "well they do this, so what we do isnt half as bad" ..but that doesnt make you innocent of the crime of torturing prisoners. Comparing the torture of prisoners to americans being beheaded is meaningless and is just a ploy to defer blame and accountibility.
 
I don't remember Iraqis invading America. You must remember that the term 'insurgent' is given to these people by America, which basically brings them down to mere rebels. They may not see themselves that way - infact they may see themselves as soldiers opposing the US troops. You won't see them as such because you're American and you've been told otherwise.

It is all a matter of view - both sides are human beings that were born and raised in different countries - both sides were taught different things, different ways of life - both sides happen by chance to appear on a different end of this conflict - the one on the Iraqi side loses out, this doesn't mean they're less human that the American soldier, they didn't choose where they should be born. They're certainly not invading America, so to see them fighting back shouldn't surprise anyone and you should know better than try to make them look like bloodthirsty barbarians.

Sure, many of the Iraqis who decide to take arms also see this as one sided conflict - I'm sure many don't have much respect for Americans - after all, they're only human, just like the US troops, just like you not caring for them. It is however important not to see this affair in black and white and certainly not lower oneself to the eye for an eye mindset. US troops should behave like civilized human beings - it is their job to go out there and secure whatever objectives they're set - it should definately not be their job to beat up helpless prisoners, because in the end, those prisoners are just like them, except by chance, they happened to be on the other side.
 
most of them arent even from Iraq,theyr come from several countrys



and dont give me the link to antiwar.com that article is false and bogus
 
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