Is Gamespot right about the AI?

[Ikerous]

The howler AI was crazy impressive.
The rest so far was okay.

 

[johnnypoopoopant]

i just shoot the enemies by rushing at them...so i could not really see if they had good ai...but by what you guys say, wow.

i think ill use strategy to kill the enemys and see how they react

 

[Aceallways]

The AI is nothing special, but it does the job fine.

Combine seem to run at you like headless chickens, and also tend to stand still while being shot.

HL2 is a great game - but it isn't going to be remembered for it's AI

May i ask what difficulty you are playing on?

 

[shapeshifter]

Gamespot are genereally more in favour of Console games for some reason. Not to say they dislike Pc games, they are just Very hard on them in reviews. while for console games they are very forgiving.

Ign is about equal to both areas. But In my view still sucks.

 

[Acert93]

Ok, I started playing at 12PST. My cousin brought his computer and spent the night and started playing at 3am PST, and my brother came over at noon PST and played on my computer (I took a break so he could enjoy the game).

This is what I observed about the AI:

I think the AI is great. I am playing on normal. They retreat when injured, take cover when reloading, they cover for each other, they flank, they will flush you with grenades, etc... Now, I am finding the game to easy on Normal--but I am great at FPS (I am in a BF1942 clan with almost 50 people and I am our 2nd best player). While I am finding it easy because I get a lot of head shots quickly, I can tell the AI is GOOD.

Yes, some guys stand still and shoot... but not all. I have played a ton of online games, and I think the AI is true to real life--some guys rush, some sneak around, some are great jab-and-weave, etc...

Since Gordon is the "hero" his guns ARE stronger. IF the combine guns were as STRONG and their ACCURACY upped (very easy to do btw), their AI for moving and such would be fine.

So I think it is important to differentiate between the AI and the power of their guns/accuracy. The game has a LOT of 5-on-1 situations, so of COURSE you need to have more fire power. If they were getting one shot kills with headshots I think people would be very upset. So we need to consider that.

My cousin was playing on Easy and he STRUGGLED. He does ok on online games (average player) and the head crabs, fast zombies, etc... gave him problems. The Combine killed him a bit also. He died a bit and was always low on health. He was AFRAID of the snipers... literally cowering. I kept telling him he needed to use cover with the gravity gun, but he was so freaked by how they got good camping spots that he would not come out.

My brother played on normal and had a VERY hard time with the Combine. He was constantly getting flanked and it would really mess him up. He was playing with less than 10 health most of the time... he really liked the game, but was a little frustrated because he always felt like he was about to die. The AI was all over him and he was overmatched most of the time.

The moral of the story? Do not judge the AI ONLY by what you see. Watch OTHERS play and watch how the AI reacts to them.

My observation would be that for 80% of the players out there the AI is either as good, if not better, than they are. Now, most players will beat the game because Gordon has more powerful weapons (it seems like it takes a lot of Combine shots to kill, even on Normal) and the Combine miss a lot. But I would say, after watching others play for ~4 hours today, that the AI is BETTER than most AVERAGE players. Some still do stupid things, but so do most average players.

As for better players... all I can say is try hard. If that is not good enough, I think what should happen is someone should make a "1337) mod where:

1.) Combine guns do the same damage as Gordon's guns
2.) Their accuracy is upped to the level of a good online player

While that may not be fun for most, it will give those of us who are head shot kings a challenge. I think a mod that had these features would emphasize that the AI is pretty good. If the AI's guns were as accurate as a good player and as powerful I think most would be very pleased. But then you have FarCry (which I hated the AI because I thought it was not overly smart, just overly accurate and powerful... just my opinion).

Anyhow, the next couple weeks will tell us more about the AI.

If nothing else, those who are worried--The AI is on par with the BEST FPS on the market. Even if one does not think it is great, I am sure no one thinks it stinks. It definately works and does the job it needs to.

 

[Aziatic_Flu]

please tell me they're wrong and the AI is very good. (I haven't played the game yet)

The AI is GOOD especially the Combine soldiers. They will play "defense" when attacking you and use tactics. They don't run around like a bunch of dumb imps.

 

[Aziatic_Flu]

Err, are we playing the same game?


The Combine never do anything but stand there like sitting ducks waiting for you to shoot them. On occasion they will strafe like about one or two steps but thats it. They rarely, if ever try to take cover, they don't flank, they don't do sh*t. The Combine show no signs of intellignece whatsover. Anyone that says otherwise are either smoking something or working for Valve.

That has been my experience playing the final HL2 on Medium difficulty on a high-end machine. I have yet to try it on the hardest setting, but I've heard the only difference on Hardest is the AI have more hitpoints before you can kill them.

In short, the AI is pretty pathetic.

I guess I'm smoking crack.

 

[miked4o7]

The AI isn't nearly as groundbreaking per say as the physics in the game, but it still does seem to me to be a step above other fps i've played (and yes, I have all of the "big ones" for console and pc). One thing that happened to me that I though was pretty cool...

Spoiler

In the trainyard after you come out of the mines where the snipers are... The first sniper I came up to saw me run behind a pile of boxes, and started shooting at them... I lobbed a grenade that landed pretty close to him and then took off to the other side of the tracks to take cover behind a train, and when I did, I saw that the combine soldier was facing away from me running to try and get away from the grenade... So he didn't see me switch cover spots. So then I was sitting there behind the train, and all of the sudden the sniper starts shooting at the boxes where I was before again. After all of the boxes were broke and it was apparent I wasn't back there... there was a pause... then he started shooting all over the place at random breakable cover spots looking for me. Meanwhile I'm just sitting behind the train thinkign "wow".

Also, in general... The enemies and allies in this game make use of the interactive environments and physics in this game... something which no other game can even attempt because no other game has physics like this one.

And finally, like half-life 1... some of what makes this game so fun is the scripted sequences... and there's so many of them with such a great variety that they way that they blend with the AI in the game makes a superb combat experience in my opinion.

 

[TyrantII]

dunno if its been asked yet, but has anyone asked these people that say the AI sucks what level they are playing the game at?

Easy is way to easy, and the soldiers just stand there an get mowed down. It sounds like most of these naysayers are on that mode, as you have to change it under options and the default is easy.

normal, and especially hard the AI becomes more agressive and smart. I've never seen AI like this in any game, so sure, it must be the best!

 

[Warbie]

Oh come on guys - the AI is competent, but far from groundbreaking.

 

[miked4o7]

I agree that it's definitely not the strongest part of the game... but it's stlil a good cut above the vast majority of other fps out there.

 

[Top Secret]

Spoiler

The AI is incredible in my opinion. I just NOW got the pulse rifle, and had a battle with some combine in a chained off area filled with wrecked cars. They hid, flanked, threw grenades from concield positions, shot through the windows, and even all rushed me at the same time. AI is great IMO.

 

[Animal]

The combine soldiers are far superior in AI to the metro cops. At least wait until you get to them before making your decision on whether the AI is good or not.

I've been ambushed by them numerous times, and it's not scripted either. They also take cover when you snipe at them.

One thing which I thought was lame though was when I put a wardrobe on some stairs and the combine trooper just kept running into it until I blew his face off.

 

[FISKER_Q]

I haven't had many of those fun moments you seem to describe

So sofar it looks good, but not great.

Spoiler

I did however have a single moment, i saw a Combine on a platform of tree, it was supported by other tree, so i began shooting the support, the first support barrier went down, however the platform didn't crash.

So he moved away from the place. I thought that was pretty cool.

It's also easy to hide from the though i tackled some of those controlpoints by grabbing a box and crouching behind it as i went towards the enemy.

I throw at them take out my pistol and shoot them in the head, easy and effective. (I could even do it with some of the turret outposts, don't try that at home though cause you're ****ed if you let him see you).

 

[AmishSlayer]

Ok - Here's how I see it:

I just beat the game on normal and I died twice - one of them from testing out a weird beam thingy at the end of the game - yea...it killed me

AI isn't all that smart. I thought HL1 marine AI was better because they did a better job of taking cover. HL1 has them take cover...and HL2 just seems to give them better positioning on you...they start behind cover and just duck and stand to shoot every so often. I haven't seen a combine soldier or elite er whatever run for cover if it wasn't within like 6 feet of them. They just stood in the open and seemed to charge me a lot.

I am an above average FPS player I guess...but I played some parts like a complete moron and still got through with enough hp to get to some health and keep moving.

This happened on the coast (very minor spoiler - doesn't even invole plot)

Spoiler

You know that little section where you can't touch the sand because the antlions come out? Well first I was jumping on the rocks. Then I got to the section where they just had crap all over the ground and I assume you have to make your own little hopscotch bridge to get across the sand. About 1 minute into grabbing and setting down objects...I decided to save and just run for it. Who cares if I die? I can just re-load. I run for like 10 seconds and leap onto a wooden pier thingy. Then I kill the 6-7 antlions that were chasing me...big deal. ...Oh...that was it? Note to self: Run through annoying puzzle sections of the game and see if you can make it without trying too hard.

I did the same thing later in the game in city 17 -

Spoiler

There's radiation goop on the ground and a bunch of wreckage. Zombies start popping up out of the goop and attack you. I killed like 4 of them with 5 crowbar hits each (whack whack, step back, repeat) and then I realized that I was gonna be jumping for a while....so I employed my run 'n gun technique this time as well. I just run through the goop which is killing me pretty quickly and I get to safe ground like 7 seconds later. I'm at 1hp with no armor. Hmmm...I'm probably screwed...some random headcrab would have no trouble taking me down. When I ran through this section like 6 more zombies had popped up so I killed them before they reached me. Soon after I was greeted with health.

These 2 things aren't dealing with the AI so much but more with the design and difficulty of the game.

I have also had a pretty easy time taking down combine soldiers late in the game.

One example: 3rd to last level. I have 2 resistance people with me. There's 3 combine soldiers behind some cover (they didn't run for the cover..they just started there) I run and spray my smg at the front guy...he's dead, keep charging and turn to the second guy...he's dead and run right past the 3rd guy (I had to go around him a bit to get clean shots at him due to his cover) and come behind him - He's still shooting at the other 2 resistance people...he didn't seem to notice or care that I charged and killed his two other allies and proceeded to run right past him and get behind him. I beat him to death with the crowbar for his mindlessness. This is just one of the many times the AI has failed to react to me doing really dumb things to kill them. What's worse...the design of the game allows me to do things like this because I get health when I need it The AI would seem better if I didn't come across health every time I did something stupid like that to pretty much reverse my horribly played battle.

To sum it up: HL2 was too easy for my tastes

Don't get me wrong - I had lots of fun. There are some cool things in this game. I just don't think the AI is one of them.

 

[Animal]

Did you forget that there is also a 'hard' difficulty setting. Try running across that sand on hard and I can guarantee you that you will be owned.

It take 2 close range shotgun blasts to kill and antlion on hard, and they can kill you in about 4 hits. So take on 7 and you will not survive. Still, I couldn't be arsed with that bit either so I ran across, but I managed to get to one of those devices which scares them off so I survived.

 

[AmishSlayer]

Did you forget that there is also a 'hard' difficulty setting. Try running across that sand on hard and I can guarantee you that you will be owned.

It take 2 close range shotgun blasts to kill and antlion on hard, and they can kill you in about 4 hits. So take on 7 and you will not survive. Still, I couldn't be arsed with that bit either so I ran across, but I managed to get to one of those devices which scares them off so I survived.

The way I see it...the game is what it was meant to be on the "Normal" or "Medium" difficulty. Just so the game isn't completely easy I shouldn't have to bump up the toughness. I'm sure Hard is probably hard...but I like a challenge to begin with.

When I ran across to safe ground for the first time (there was more than just the first run 'n gun on the sand) I was nowhere near the closest device so I just kept doing the sprint across the sand deal until I got to one. Those devices (they sorta just pound the ground every 4 seconds or so) actually showed me the best AI in the game I think. The antlions circle around you if you if you're standing next to one. They're all afraid and such and will jump you if you leave. Ocassionally one will get the balls to try to attack you. It will make it's move right after the device pounds the ground and make one attack and back off again before the device pounds again. I was impressed by that (assuming that was programmed into the AI and not just a bug).

 

[Animal]

Yeah their behaviour was really cool, you get the impression they really want to get to you but they are just too afraid of that thing.

I think they added that fairly recently, as the bink of the coast didn't have those on it.

 

[falconwind]

we are playing HL2 on Normal difficulty... right?

If we aren't that will expain why they are sometimes stupid and then brilliant.

 

[ThrasherX9]

Ok - Here's how I see it:

I just beat the game on normal and I died twice

Jesus... that's it? One part in particular I must have died a dozen times...

Spoiler

When Gordon and Alyx are trying to save Eli and get Mossman and you have three turrets and combine after combine just flood the area. And manhacks too... jesus, everytime I would eventually get overrun and just die. I had to eventually cheat just to get past that part. Something I normally don't do but it was just impossibe for me to get any farther. Very frusterating

 

[AmishSlayer]

Jesus... that's it? One part in particular I must have died a dozen times...

Spoiler

When Gordon and Alyx are trying to save Eli and get Mossman and you have three turrets and combine after combine just flood the area. And manhacks too... jesus, everytime I would eventually get overrun and just die. I had to eventually cheat just to get past that part. Something I normally don't do but it was just impossibe for me to get any farther. Very frusterating

Spoiler

I just set up the turrets one for each entrance and stood back with the manipulator. They thew 3 grenades total trying to get rid of the turrets. I quickly grabbed the grenades and tossed them away. I didn't even fire a bullet.

Manhacks are easy to handle with the manipulator.

EDIT:

Spoiler

Also if they do knock over a turret you can just pick it up and set it upright again and it's good to go. I did that once before in the prison.

 

[ThrasherX9]

Spoiler

Hmm... are we talking about the same scene? Alyx isn't with you... this is before the part where Mossman and Eli disapear. Anyway, One entrance was vunerable and they were constantly throwing grenades or running up behind the one and knocking it over on top of manhacks plus the combine shooting at me knocking over turrets; it was just too much for me I guess

 

[tylercruz]

The way I see it...the game is what it was meant to be on the "Normal" or "Medium" difficulty. Just so the game isn't completely easy I shouldn't have to bump up the toughness. I'm sure Hard is probably hard...but I like a challenge to begin with.

When I ran across to safe ground for the first time (there was more than just the first run 'n gun on the sand) I was nowhere near the closest device so I just kept doing the sprint across the sand deal until I got to one. Those devices (they sorta just pound the ground every 4 seconds or so) actually showed me the best AI in the game I think. The antlions circle around you if you if you're standing next to one. They're all afraid and such and will jump you if you leave. Ocassionally one will get the balls to try to attack you. It will make it's move right after the device pounds the ground and make one attack and back off again before the device pounds again. I was impressed by that (assuming that was programmed into the AI and not just a bug).

While I agree with you and enjoy a nice challenging but not-over-challenging game, you may not realize just how bad the majority of players are. The main core of people who buy HL2 will suck beyond what you can even fathom. Remember, they make cheat codes for a reason: lots of people actually use them (yes, even on the easiest setting).

Catering to a small percentage (compared to the general public) of it's market and making the game very challenging and tough would make the aforementioned players quite upset. More experienced players may play the game on tough, and then wait for mods to be released

Remember, there will most likely be an expansion pack coming out shortly, which usually prooves to be more difficult than the original as well.

 

[bartman]

Hey McFee I was worried about AI but when I read this I am like OMFG

 

[miked4o7]

more difficulty settings would be nice, and so far I haven't found normal to be terribly difficult at any point, but it definitely is enough to make it fun in my opinion. My personal opinion on the matter is that if you go through what you know to be 20-25% of the game on a given difficulty setting and don't die once... up the difficulty setting. You may very well just be that good. They have the different settings there for a reason, not everyone is "normal" skill level.

 

[Acert93]

If Valve adds a new "Very Hard" Mode and (1) increases weapon damage from enemies and (2) Increases their accuracy, I think the "uber elite" would be happy.

I am finding while the AI is very good for a game, the combine miss a LOT of shots + when they do it it does not hurt much. Although if they started doing headshots with guns as powerful as mine groups of combine would be almost impossible to beat...

I know a lot of people like FarCry. What I found about their AI is that it does many of the things HL2 does (retreat when hurt, cover when reloading, cover each other, etc...) the biggest difference is on harder modes FarCry's guys REALLY were accurate and HURT you when they shot. I think if this was changed better players could enjoy the tactics of the AI more. Right now their tactics are pointless __for me__ because I can kill them either way.

I still think the AI is great. Cannot think of a game with better AI (maybe some with similar level), but none better. And the non-combine AI is excellent as well (hard to compare those to other games).

 

[Psygnosis]

P.S. PC Gamer is the best way to go though.

Exactly.

 

[Mountain Man]

People seem to be confusing the difficulty of the AI with the quality of the AI. While the AI is not overly bright, I've found it intelligent enough to keep the game interesting.

 

[Warbie]

If Valve adds a new "Very Hard" Mode and (1) increases weapon damage from enemies and (2) Increases their accuracy, I think the "uber elite" would be happy.

That would be very welcome - and not just for the "uber elite".

Challenge is always a good thing, and will keep a playing coming back and practising.

HL2 is a sweet game, but very linear. The experience will not change much each time you visit it. Adding that extra difficulty will give more incentive to come back and exeprience it again

 

[alehm]

So after reading the complaints and praises of AI in this thread.

I think it is safe to say the AI is not bad. As long as it doesn't detract from the game (like a combine humping the wall in a fire fight) then Valve did a good job.