Is HL2's AI the best ever?

[Annihilator_91]

I think that HL2's AI is the most advanced yet. We have all seen traptown, right? And in the beginning you block a door with a table so that the combine that is after you can't enter the room. Then he calls for backup and he starts shooting in through a window while his "friend" kicks in the door. That is the most advanced AI I have ever laid eyes on. :E

 

[NeLi]

It was scripted. yay.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

Yeah don't trust the scripted stuff from the E3 2003 vids, wait for the final game to make AI related judgements.

 

[Annihilator_91]

Yeah your probably right.

 

[Danimal]

A friend of mine who saw a trialer for HL2 that i havent, he said there was another strider scene where there was something blocking the striders path, he shot the object but i did not help so he bent down and crawled under it.

He told me it was the AI but i asked if it was scripted and he assured me it wasnt

I am saying the AI is advanced but that isnt the only reason why the game is good

 

[Chris D]

A friend of mine who saw a trialer for HL2 that i havent, he said there was another strider scene where there was something blocking the striders path, he shot the object but i did not help so he bent down and crawled under it.

He told me it was the AI but i asked if it was scripted and he assured me it wasnt

I am saying the AI is advanced but that isnt the only reason why the game is good

Yeah it was supposedly "contextual AI", where the AI wasn't actually programmed or scripted to crawl under, but made the decision anyway.

 

[The Monkey]

A friend of mine who saw a trialer for HL2 that i havent, he said there was another strider scene where there was something blocking the striders path, he shot the object but i did not help so he bent down and crawled under it.

He told me it was the AI but i asked if it was scripted and he assured me it wasnt

I am saying the AI is advanced but that isnt the only reason why the game is good

That scene is in "Strider" from e3 2003, and Valve say that it isn't scripted, but i doubt it.

 

[Lobster]

The whole E3 2003 video was scripted BUT people simply jumped to the conclusion that the entire game was scripted when studying the leaked build, closer inspection shows all the neccasary components are there for what valve were talking about, along with some other impressive things that wernt implimented to well in those early maps, the reason it was originaly scripted was to give the best demonstration of what they were doing, the overall awareness and combat was coming along really nicely, and i still think the final game will have the best (or at least most fun) ai we have seen.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

Yes, it was pseudo-AI, designed to give us an idea at how the final AI would behave.

Of course we would have never known that unless the TRUTH FINDERS (aka as malicious hackers) found that out for us.

 

[Lobster]

Yes, it was pseudo-AI, designed to give us an idea at how the final AI would behave.

Of course we would have never known that unless the TRUTH FINDERS (aka as malicious hackers) found that out for us.

People would be surprised how many games/movies etc, run fake "proof of concept" material early on, no one ever notices cause the final production usually delivers the finished feature anyway.

 

[Sparta]

That scene is in "Strider" from e3 2003, and Valve say that it isn't scripted, but i doubt it.

The strider walked under the bridge by itself, and then later Valve decided to tell it to blow up the bridge

 

[Jimlad]

How on Earth would we know? Nobody's played the game, and we can't really claim we've seen the AI in action. IMHO, despite what Valve have said, it seems as though quite a significant amount of what we've seen has been "scripted". Valve deny this, but from what I've heard this is only because it isn't scripting in the traditional sense.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember Valve talking about the fact that they give the AI "hints" rather than scripting, per se - which sounds to me like it's still scripting, only the AI can decide whether to follow it or not. Of course, we have no idea whether even this is true, since the evidence so far seems to point to plain old scripting, but I suppose we'll just have to see whether Valve are still lying when the game is released.

Take the case of Deus Ex: Invisible War. Ion storm were highly regarded as game developers, and claimed that they had incredibly advanced AI, citing examples that everyone got excited about. Turns out, in reality it didn't do what they said it would, and many fans felt lied to because it was so poorly programmed, no matter how supposedly "advanced" it was.

It's easy to say, "Oh, well the current AI is just acting as a placeholder, Valve are sure to deliver on the real thing!" but as it stands, there isn't any evidence to back this up. In fact, from what I remember seeing from the vids, the enemy AI has consisted of predictable attack behaviour (standing and shooting/running straight at the player and attacking), and apparently scripted sequences (although we'll have to confirm this when it's released). I'm sorry, but it has to be said that there's a definite chance the AI won't be as good as a lot of people here hope.

 

[Mr Neutron]

By hints, Valve means that AI's are given associations with objects. For instance, a door is associated with a kicking action for combines apparently. Whether the door is kicked open or not depends whether he wants to get through the door. Obviously, anything that requires a unique animation is in that sense canned content (the AI couldn't figure out how to depict a ducking strider), but how these actions are associated with the world is debateable. When the strider goes under something, either the mapper has included a little 'duck here' volume especially for striders, or the strider tries it when he detects the top part of his hit-volume being blocked, or the AI analyses the level. The latter is much more difficult to program, especially if it takes a dynamic enviornment into account. I'm guessing HL2 uses the second option. This would require though that the AI look a little into the future e.g. 'What would happen if I walked a little bit forward now; would my way be blocked?' This would avoid seeing the famous treadmilling AI's (walking in place while smashing their faces into a wall).

 

[lans]

Useless thread. We can't make a judgement untill we have the actual game in our hands.

 

[razorblade kiss]

Useless thread. We can't make a judgement untill we have the actual game in our hands.

We CAN bullshit though.

 

[Mountain Man]

I like to call artificial intelligence "intelligent scripting". It's not true intelligence, hence the "artificial" designation, so you can't expect spontaneous creative decision making. What I mean by "intelligent scripting" is that the AI is given a list of possible actions and behavior and it "decides" which script is most conducive to reaching its goal.

 

[Xrenity]

I like to call artificial intelligence "intelligent scripting". It's not true intelligence, hence the "artificial" designation, so you can't expect spontaneous creative decision making. What I mean by "intelligent scripting" is that the AI is given a list of possible actions and behavior and it "decides" which script is most conducive to reaching its goal.

I think you got that pretty right. For example, the Strider wants go behind the bridge/building/thingy
He gets the following choices:
-do nothing P)
-get under (where the the move to go under is sort of scripted)
-blast through (if he tries this fails)
-and some few others

Now the AI will chose what to do It looks like great AI, but it is not completely true, I guess. Neverthless it will be great to see

 

[mortiz]

I certainly hope the A.I. in HL-2 is advanced. When that forum member went to VALVe he said he saw some cool stuff while playing that would signify intelligence!

 

[ViolenceJack]

what bugs me about the strider video is that it blows up part of the building. That would indicate that HL2 would have deformable terrain or what ever you call it but it has been confirmed that HL2 wouldnt, source could do it but HL2 wouldnt have it. So I dont see how that part in the strider video could happen in the final product, if you cant blow walls up and stuff. Only way it seems its gonner happen in HL2 is if its scripted but they said there never gonner have any scripted parts.

 

[Brian Damage]

You CAN blow up walls and other objects if they've been designed with preset breakpoints. It's part of the way physics are used in the game, not deformable terrain. We've known that for ages.

 

[andungen]

offtopic: razorblade kiss du you like HIM?

well,ontopic: i certainly hope the A.I in hl2 is great, and valve know how to make great a.i...the a.i in hl waas great!

 

[^Thomas^]

Valve said that the combat AI was none-scriptet.

 

[Dead-Inside]

We CAN bullshit though.

Indeed... I mean... What else is there to life then bullshitting?

Valve said that the combat AI was none-scriptet.

We know for a fact that some scenes in the E3 2003 demo were indeed scripted. However in the game they will have as little scripting as possible but have "hints" to tell the AI where to hide, cover, fire and move, basically. It's like waypoints in categories placed by the mapper.

 

[Aknot]

My big "problem" is if you have such spectacular AI why not show 2 or 3 "movies" of the same scenerio?

As for AI well if I saw 6 of my combine buddy get slaughter what makes ME think I can win? I would run the other way. (j/k)

Thats like the AI in (one of the "War" FPS) I was a the top of the steps in a corner and o I would say 15 Nazis just kept coming in and piling on one dead body after the other.

Again we wait and see. Just like everything else. And "I" wont be able to come back and say "told you so" because no mtter what I will be playing the game to death, as this is my last one I believe.

 

[Xenome]

Valve said, that the AI, as shown in the traptown vid, is the AI HL2 will have once it's released.

If that's true, then, yes, HL2 has the best AI ever.

 

[Operation Ivy]

Well seeing how the AI in Half Life is still better then a lot of AI in todays games, HL2's AI should be awsome

 

[Aknot]

Well seeing how the AI in Half Life is still better then a lot of AI in todays games, HL2's AI should be awsome

Well how can you say that?

 

[Some_God]

Hl2's AI better be good... or else... umm.. Ill still buy the game.

 

[brightgreen]

When Valve promised to deliver the most advanced A.I. (at that time) in the original Half-Life, they did.

In fact, the A.I. present in HL is STILL one of the best available for your money, in a game of this type of course.

 

[RFarmer]

Useless thread. We can't make a judgement untill we have the actual game in our hands.

So are you saying that we can decide that the AI is scripted or not by looking at the game box? Just kidding....

If the game is scripted well and variably according to your actions, I think the game should play out well. But smart non-scripted AI should play out the best.

 

[brightgreen]

My big "problem" is if you have such spectacular AI why not show 2 or 3 "movies" of the same scenerio?

Haven't they? I seem to remember there being videos of more than one run of the same scenario ...

 

[Ikerous]

There were two runs of the same strider incident in the E3 2004 video.

 

[Slime]

The E3 2004 Strider scene had 2 "views", no?

 

[dis]

there was to an extant - they had two differents versions of a battle between two striders, Gordon, and some of the other freedom fighter guys

Edit: you guys beat me to it...

 

[ktimekiller]

u know, the combine busting though the door is scripted, when i was playing the beta, i killed the guy who was suppose to kick the door, and after a few secs, the door opens, and there is a kicking sound, but no combine lol

 

[chimpmunk]

Useless thread. We can't make a judgement untill we have the actual game in our hands.

useless comment...

 

[Asus]

The leak is not what they showed at E3. The leak was a old build while the demo at E3 2003 was a much more current build. Don't compare what someone leaked and then compiled to a solid build.

They have said it is not scripted at all.
Scripted in the sense that 'if that then do this'.

Everything in programing is 'scripted'. It's told what to do somehow or it doesn't 'do' anything.

 

[Narcolepsy]

u know, the combine busting though the door is scripted, when i was playing the beta, i killed the guy who was suppose to kick the door, and after a few secs, the door opens, and there is a kicking sound, but no combine lol

Are you serious? That's a bad sign.

Valve has said many things, but many things haven't come true...

 

[Letters]

Are you serious? That's a bad sign.

Read the post above yours.

 

[Lobster]

In half-life 1 there was a moment where if you went underneath this car elevator then a grunt would run to a switch and crush u underneath it, now consider that in HL2 the maps are covered in hundreds of things like this, however instead of just "If this - Do this", there is a list of Do's If the AI feels it neccasary.

Example: The strider reaches the bridge and sees the player, the standard AI of the monster maps the quickest route which goes through the bridge, but it has to deal with the obstruction, so it sees a hint node with a list of things the strider can do to get past, shoot it, go under it, blow it up, walk through it, climb over it etc, the ai then decides which to use based on the position of the player, and other things going on around it.

The strider itself has its own combat ai which is impressive in itself, and can interact with physics and stuff by itself, the idea is to not only increase the level of normal tactical and combat ai but also let it make some cool cinematic events happen that feel as though there a direct result of the players interaction in the game, same goes for the soldiers and anything else, you wont find any other game doing anything more advanced this year at least.