is it ok to be racist towards some races?

[Ennui]

No actually it was directly relevant and also in response to your post, and to what i saw to be the most important parts.

"It's red." "No it's not, here's why it's blue." "No, it's red." You're missing the "because..." at the end of that last sentence there.

True - you didn't comment on the purpose of labels. You said labels shouldn't be used as a means of pre-judging (or that is what i gathered from your post, sorry if that's not the case) - you said labels are misleading.

So then i made the arguement that labels have the sole purpose of describing what they are attached to, if they are misleading, they are useless. Labels are given for reasons, not purely based on stereotypes.

I said that it's stupid to judge purely by labels, in response to you saying that "Judging off labels is fine." Obviously they're somewhat indicative of what they claim to describe, but to judge soley based on labels is a form of blind generalization, and is not a wise tactic. I stick by this. You're not even arguing with me when you're saying that, because I'm not saying that labels are generally wrong... I said they're often misleading.

I then made the arguement against "it's pretty stupid to hate a type of music or film anyway, without seeing it," - i used a game example - which is without a doubt perfectly valid.

A specific series is not the same as a type/genre, or it's at least a smaller sub-classification, while I was directing my comments at the whole. To say that you hate RPGs, for example, and refusing to play a particular game because of that, is what I was referring to. The fact that you've hated RPGs you've played before does not speak entirely for the future game. Similarly, people tend to say they "hate rap", because, admittedly, most mainstream rap sucks - but some of it is good, unless you're being purposefully obstinate in your assertion (not directed at you, obviously, since you didn't even talk about rap).

You claim i missed the bulk of your post, so to continue:

Saying jews isn't hilarious on a basic level - correct. The word doesn't make me giggle, it's deeper than that. It's hard to explain why myself and others find it funny, i guess you could describe it as the childish aspect. I also find it funny calling people "noob" because that word is so overused and unfunny - which makes it a great joke-insult.

Right, and I'm saying that the childish aspect of it is immature and stupid, because honestly... the vague offensiveness of it is a prepubescent thing.

To your second paragraph: "what he's saying is that hating people based on principle merely because they're fundamentally different than you"

So by hating we will call it "treating differently" and we replace "fundamentally different" with different. You get: Treating people differently merely because they are different - Yes? That is simple action - reaction. None of that was taken out of context, simply reworded.

As for the hating objects thing - I said "what's next; not being able to hate objects" blah blah. I wasn't totally serious - but it stands to reason. I can hate what i want - i won't ban people from getting a seat on a bus - but i can hate them.

First, replacing "hate" with "treating differently" isn't really synonymous, as hating someone does not necessarily imply action. Don't bitch at me for getting into semantics, because I'm merely treading your ground here. I also was not arguing with your ability to hate whomever you wish - I was just saying that it's stupid to do so, in the context that you're doing it based on something like their skin color or religion.

I know that your response to this will be generic. You will say i am stupid for offering a logical opinion (which you already have done btw) - i do not support racism but my reason for posting was i saw WAY too many conforming posts with people saying "No it's wrong" asif that is obviously true and questioning it would be a sin.

Racism IS wrong. There is no logical way (there are twisted logical ways, but they're fundamentally unreasonable) to justify disliking someone based on their origin or appearance without even bringing their individual personality into question.

Also i'd like to make the comment that locking controversial race / religion debates is wrong (i see it going there). It is asif discussing beliefs shouldn't be done. And as of yet - no one has made any offensive comments towards someone else or a race.

Discussing beliefs is fine. I'm disagreeing with yours. That doesn't mean I don't accept them.

 

[Beerdude26]

yes indeed gg

:|

 

[Aenama]

"devour to survive,so it is,so it's always been"

 

[Beerdude26]

"devour to survive,so it is,so it's always been"

Oh yes, that's a civilised concept of existence.

 

[Aenama]

Where do you think we would be,if all Europeans decided to stay in their Viilages,and just kick it until they die?
America would have never been colonized,granted the way it was done,wasn't right either but had to be done so the West can prospers.BTW,places like ME weren't Amusement parks and the Persian Empire wasn't a Trade Federation.

 

[Asuka]

We need more negros replying in this thread!

Wait, I'll try to lure some with this bucket of KFC D:

LMFAO!

I don't believe in racism. I mean back in the day it was real, with slaves etc. But in this day and age 90% of the people that complain about racist people or remarks are leaching the system and getting special treatment. I might sound racist now but its just ****ing retarded when some idiot black guy keeps saying shit like your racist for every small little thing. No one gives two shits if a white guy is called a cracker, or Asian called a chick, Spanish people spics etc. Seriously most of the time no one cares its words who gives a ****. But the second you call someone a ****** all hell breaks lose. Its stupid and i don't respect it.

Racism = a way to take advantage at this point.

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

Only against Klingons

D:

 

[Seppo]

^ fail?

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

^ fail?

Yeah, I get about a 1/10

or a .00000001/10

 

[Jerry_111]

Where do you think we would be,if all Europeans decided to stay in their Viilages,and just kick it until they die?
America would have never been colonized,granted the way it was done,wasn't right either but had to be done so the West can prospers.BTW,places like ME weren't Amusement parks and the Persian Empire wasn't a Trade Federation.

You know, if China hadn't been so isolationist for the previous three thousand years and took advantage of their technological abilities and ability to build big ships while europe was in the dark ages, east might be > than west right now.

 

[ríomhaire]

May I ask you who the genious was that told you this?

Oh sweet irony

 

[Aenama]

You know, if China hadn't been so isolationist for the previous three thousand years and took advantage of their technological abilities and ability to build big ships while europe was in the dark ages, east might be > than west right now.

instead of isolationist,you should say "smoke opium"
Thats why they never became a super power,everyody was smoking dope,and the British empire exploited that.

 

[W4E]

"It's red." "No it's not, here's why it's blue." "No, it's red." You're missing the "because..." at the end of that last sentence there.

I explained my reasoning. I went through the steps which lead to the current conversation. I did not say anything remotely like "it is because i say so"

I said that it's stupid to judge purely by labels, in response to you saying that "Judging off labels is fine." Obviously they're somewhat indicative of what they claim to describe, but to judge soley based on labels is a form of blind generalization, and is not a wise tactic. I stick by this. You're not even arguing with me when you're saying that, because I'm not saying that labels are generally wrong... I said they're often misleading.

I choose to follow some labels and dismiss others. Do you (or anyone?) get to decide which? No. Therefore it's fine to pre-judge people based on labels.

A specific series is not the same as a type/genre, or it's at least a smaller sub-classification, while I was directing my comments at the whole. To say that you hate RPGs, for example, and refusing to play a particular game because of that, is what I was referring to. The fact that you've hated RPGs you've played before does not speak entirely for the future game. Similarly, people tend to say they "hate rap", because, admittedly, most mainstream rap sucks - but some of it is good, unless you're being purposefully obstinate in your assertion (not directed at you, obviously, since you didn't even talk about rap).

I hate all RPGs, i didnt like the first 3 i played, and have expected (and been right) to not like others. I'm not saying that ANYONE has a reason to believe there are zero good people of any race - but if they choose : they can hate the (what you would call) mainstream all they want.

Right, and I'm saying that the childish aspect of it is immature and stupid, because honestly... the vague offensiveness of it is a prepubescent thing.

I believe this comedy is above your understanding. The vague offensiveness is what makes it funny. Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ8CwNveTBU at 3minutes(hohoho on a map i made!) he calls the other guy a "jiggle-head". It has the same comedy value as calling someone a "jew". It's funny BECAUSE it is childish and immature. Try to understand.

First, replacing "hate" with "treating differently" isn't really synonymous, as hating someone does not necessarily imply action. Don't bitch at me for getting into semantics, because I'm merely treading your ground here. I also was not arguing with your ability to hate whomever you wish - I was just saying that it's stupid to do so, in the context that you're doing it based on something like their skin color or religion.

Hating can be replaced with treating differently - or having "different feelings". : My feelings differenciate between different people. <- fair to say. Therefore it's NOT stupid to base 'hate' on things which make two individuals unique. Some things you like, some you don't. No one thinks people are sexist for being straight do they?

And the context that i'm doing it? I'm not a racist, i was answering #1's question. It is okay, doesn't mean i do it.

Racism IS wrong. There is no logical way (there are twisted logical ways, but they're fundamentally unreasonable) to justify disliking someone based on their origin or appearance without even bringing their individual personality into question.

Things you don't agree with =/= twisted. Basing judgements on origin and appearance (i guess you could say judging a book by its cover) is perfectly fine. "i'm not eating here because it's fast food"

And the above RL comparison relates:

The way thoughts work; you see something; firstly you recognise visual features (superficial) and find the schema of which it fits best. So far ALL of your judgements about the object/person are based on past events which have built up a schema for the recognised object. From this point: assimilation occurs where new thoughts about the object/person are fit into your current definitions.

This is how (it is believed) thought's work - from an evolutionary standpoint it clearly helps survival. So it is wrong to immediately judge someone - even though you are willing to accept new information?

Discussing beliefs is fine. I'm disagreeing with yours. That doesn't mean I don't accept them.

Yeah i was just saying (not aimed at you) because i'm expecting a lock soon, whenever controversial(SP?) discussions get talked out threads get closed :[

 

[Ennui]

I explained my reasoning. I went through the steps which lead to the current conversation. I did not say anything remotely like "it is because i say so"

You didn't really say much at all, or at least I couldn't find any particularly convincing backup of your statement that it was "completely relevant" or whatever you said. You mentioned it later in your post but it wasn't particularly helpful.

I choose to follow some labels and dismiss others. Do you (or anyone?) get to decide which? No. Therefore it's fine to pre-judge people based on labels.

I think you are getting confused based on my authoritative manner of arguing. I'm stating my opinion, and backing it up with logical reasoning; you're stating your opinion, but not backing it up logically. Essentially, you're only saying that it's okay because it's your opinion, which I obviously already know. I'm challenging you to logically back up your assertions of opinion, which you haven't done yet.

I hate all RPGs, i didnt like the first 3 i played, and have expected (and been right) to not like others. I'm not saying that ANYONE has a reason to believe there are zero good people of any race - but if they choose : they can hate the (what you would call) mainstream all they want.

Like I said, I'm speaking from a rational standpoint where people actually have to back up their opinions. Really, I just called you on a generalization, and you're trying to defend it when you really can't, easily. It's not my problem that you don't think through everything you say, but you chose to fight it, and now we're embroiled in this.

I believe this comedy is above your understanding. The vague offensiveness is what makes it funny. Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ8CwNveTBU at 3minutes(hohoho on a map i made!) he calls the other guy a "jiggle-head". It has the same comedy value as calling someone a "jew". It's funny BECAUSE it is childish and immature. Try to understand.

I understand... I guess I just already got past the phase of my life where I thought that kind of stuff was hilarious.

Hating can be replaced with treating differently - or having "different feelings". : My feelings differenciate between different people. <- fair to say. Therefore it's NOT stupid to base 'hate' on things which make two individuals unique. Some things you like, some you don't. No one thinks people are sexist for being straight do they?

I have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe I'm stupid, or maybe you're not making sense, I really don't know.

And the context that i'm doing it? I'm not a racist, i was answering #1's question. It is okay, doesn't mean i do it.

When I said "you're" I was directing it at an unspecified third racist party, not you. I know you aren't racist.

Things you don't agree with =/= twisted. Basing judgements on origin and appearance (i guess you could say judging a book by its cover) is perfectly fine. "i'm not eating here because it's fast food"

I didn't call your opinion twisted, I said that you can't make a logical/rational/reasonable argument for racism that doesn't involve some kind of twisted logic somewhere, or at least I haven't encountered one yet. That was a challenge for you to do so, because if you don't, I'm right.

And the above RL comparison relates:

The way thoughts work; you see something; firstly you recognise visual features (superficial) and find the schema of which it fits best. So far ALL of your judgements about the object/person are based on past events which have built up a schema for the recognised object. From this point: assimilation occurs where new thoughts about the object/person are fit into your current definitions.

Don't spout your intro psych crap at me, I know it already and it doesn't make you sound smart, not to mention it's pointless, for reasons which I'll detail below:

This is how (it is believed) thought's work - from an evolutionary standpoint it clearly helps survival. So it is wrong to immediately judge someone - even though you are willing to accept new information?

It's not wrong to immediately judge someone. It's inevitable that you will immediately judge everything you experience at first contact. People who claim they don't are either 1) stupid 2) lying or 3) really good at talking themselves into impartiality. However, racism implies a damning initial judgement that does not even necessarily require meeting or seeing the person. It's hatred based PURELY on principle, and most racists are NOT willing to accept new information and change their opinions... because that obstinate, purposeful ignorance is included in the requirements to be racist, and that's present in most racists (though there are exceptions, but they're not important given the discussion).

Yeah i was just saying (not aimed at you) because i'm expecting a lock soon, whenever controversial(SP?) discussions get talked out threads get closed :[

That's usually because the arguments get pretty heated. This one's not too bad, I've only called you stupid a few times, I'm learning restraint probably because you're not arguing FOR racism, and also because this has nothing to do with religion or drugs

 

[Aenama]

oh shit






QUOTE WARS!!!!!

 

[Ennui]

I adore quote wars. It gets my blood flowing.

 

[Absinthe]

Yes, stereotypes and generalizations are natural products of our mind's way of organizing received information. And for all the benefits it may give us for our day to day lives, we still need to be consciously aware of this process and make the effort to correct ourselves when our natural mental mechanisms misfire.

In other news, I would like to award myself a prize for the above alliteration.

 

[Jerry_111]

Yes, stereotypes and generalizations are natural products of our mind's way of organizing received information. And for all the benefits it may give us for our day to day lives, we still need to be consciously aware of this process and make the effort to correct ourselves when our natural mental mechanisms misfire.

In other news, I would like to award myself a prize for the above alliteration.

i like this man!

 

[Dan]

It's okay to hate Visgoths

 

[bam23]

Yes, stereotypes and generalizations are natural products of our mind's way of organizing received information. And for all the benefits it may give us for our day to day lives, we still need to be consciously aware of this process and make the effort to correct ourselves when our natural mental mechanisms misfire.

In other news, I would like to award myself a prize for the above alliteration.

e=mc^2

 

[Dan]

Yes, stereotypes and generalizations are natural products of our mind's way of organizing received information. And for all the benefits it may give us for our day to day lives, we still need to be consciously aware of this process and make the effort to correct ourselves when our natural mental mechanisms misfire.

In other news, I would like to award myself a prize for the above alliteration.

sounds like a lot of BS to me

 

[Stigmata]

e=mc^2

Q.E.D. ?

 

[W4E]

I'll argue back when i've got more time x

 

[Darkside55]

Is it OK to be a racist? No.

Is it OK to make fun of people because of their race? Hell yes.

LOL @:
Crackers
Jews
Niggrs
Orientals
Chicanos
Arabs
Injuns
Hindus
Goddamned Eskimos

I think that covers everyone on the planet.

 

[Absinthe]

sounds like a lot of BS to me

What sounds like BS? Please be specific.

 

[v1p3r]

[gvideo]3509272904603168366[/gvideo]

 

[Seppo]

What sounds like BS? Please be specific.

He's talking about your post. Your post was bullshit.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Yes

I Mean No