Is it possible to make a GOOD Communism?

[Solaris]

Communisim is e based around equality, capitalism is based off rich people expoiting poor people.

Exactly.

You can still advance under communism, you can get a better job, you can go from lab assistant, to stephen hawking. But your reward won't be your pay, it will be a feeling of satisfaction that youre doing a job you love.

 

[Gray Fox]

Solaris, what do you think of Parecon
BTW, if found this at http://www.zmag.org/

 

[Razor]

It is pretty much impossible due to the greed of the people who have lots

All people are equal but some are more equal than others
And Power corrupts, Absolute Power corrupts absolutely.

 

[kirovman]

Exactly.

You can still advance under communism, you can get a better job, you can go from lab assistant, to stephen hawking. But your reward won't be your pay, it will be a feeling of satisfaction that youre doing a job you love.

If I knew I wouldn't get a good job, I wouldn't have gone to University to study a science degree and achieve highly. I would have got a manual labour job. I was motivated to achieving a good degree, by the feeling that I would get a successful career and improve my life in the future. Under a communistic system, I would not have done that. The government would have wasted my potential. And the potential of countless others no doubt. So how to give incentive for people to work harder or to use their experience to increase business and trade? You pay them more.

These thoughts and feelings are shared by a lot of people.

Job satisfaction is important, but it isn't everything.

 

[Solaris]

I think you'll find most people enjoyed university, and want to learn.

 

[kirovman]

I don't know many people who liked to learn for the sake of learning. Maybe 5% of them. And the most enjoyable part of Uni is getting drunk with mates.
But by being a University student you've already destroyed the equality.

Let's say you treat being a student like having a job, and you pay the student the same as any worker, to attend University.
The student has much less hours than any other worker. Where's the fairness in that, the student gets paid more per hour? For being dossers? (Yeah, I was a proper dosser in Uni and loved it)
You could increase the hours of study, but then it would be like a learning factory (like in some Asian schools). That wouldn't be enjoyable.
And so your incentive to goto University plummets. Why study your arse off, when you can get a manual labour job for the same pay?
Ah but you could offer them more pay to come to Uni. Oops, that's characteristics of a capitalist society though :O

 

[Razor]

I don't know many people who liked to learn for the sake of learning. Maybe 5% of them. And the most enjoyable part of Uni is getting drunk with mates.
But by being a University student you've already destroyed the equality.

Let's say you treat being a student like having a job, and you pay the student the same as any worker, to attend University.
The student has much less hours than any other worker. Where's the fairness in that, the student gets paid more per hour? For being dossers? (Yeah, I was a proper dosser in Uni and loved it)
You could increase the hours of study, but then it would be like a learning factory (like in some Asian schools). That wouldn't be enjoyable.
And so your incentive to goto University plummets. Why study your arse off, when you can get a manual labour job for the same pay?
Ah but you could offer them more pay to come to Uni. Oops, that's characteristics of a capitalist society though :O

One idea would be to make university mandatory, so you are constantly learning until you're 21. There would be after school services and holiday services for people who can't learn as quickly but keep it mandatory. After the age of 16, they would earn a little pocket money, probably around £100 but also have the choice of earning more money by doing a simple after hours job or weekend job. They would earn more then the typical student but they would be working more, so it is fair.

Or....another way of doing it with a non-mandotary situation would be to offer non-monetary incentives to them to attend university. Something a long the lines of only university students can become politicians, you can only vote unless you've attended college...or, you can vote and become a politician if you go in the military for 5 years.

 

[kirovman]

One idea would be to make university mandatory, so you are constantly learning until you're 21. There would be after school services and holiday services for people who can't learn as quickly but keep it mandatory. After the age of 16, they would earn a little pocket money, probably around £100 but also have the choice of earning more money by doing a simple after hours job or weekend job. They would earn more then the typical student but they would be working more, so it is fair.

Heh, the Labour government will probably make University mandatory with that 50% of people in higher education policy.

But by earning more, you'd destroy the communism equality.

 

[Flyingdebris]

look around the world people, communism was tried on the grand scale and failed spectacularly.

the only communist nation that is being sucessful is china, and only because they are behaving like capitalists.

i can live with the fact that there are quite a few fat slob CEOs, politicians, and celebrities who never have to do an honest day's work. Its not so bad. Hell, most of their lives are in shambles anyway. I'd prefer to earn pay and do whatever the hell i want with it.

its alot better than being permently attached to the teat of the government with no room to grow

 

[Solaris]

The SU was state capitalist not communist

 

[kirovman]

How so, please elaborate.

Collective farming wasn't capitalist surely?

 

[spookymooky]

I just want to say this: personally, I'm not too interested in bettering myself financially. Sure it'd be nice and all. But I'm interested in learning, and doing a job I enjoy to the best of my abilities. I'm soon going to be paying tens of thousands of dollars for an education from one of the most expensive colleges in my state, but I don't really care about the money I make afterwards.

I just want to say that communism is feasible, as long as the populace believes that money is not their goal in life, nor liesure.

 

[Milkman]

Communism is only for naive fools who have too much faith in this disgusting, grabastic race known as humanity.

We can't all be equal, we can't all be happy.

 

[Jintor]

Communism works, if you don't use creatures with a concept of 'greed'.

 

[kirovman]

Communism works, if you don't use creatures with a concept of 'greed'.

A robotic society!

 

[15357]

Or you could take some infants from birth and raise them into perfect people, teaching them English minus the word greed and the like. If they cannot express it, they cannot think it.

 

[kirovman]

Or you could take some infants from birth and raise them into perfect people.

ROFL, I think people like Hitler and Stalin and Kim Jong-Il have been trying that for centuries

'perfection' is not attainable, it is a pipe dream.

I don't think the government should be raising people's children for them. Although I'm inclined to change my mind after seeing some chav families.

 

[15357]

ROFL, I think people like Hitler and Stalin and Kim Jong-Il have been trying that for centuries

'perfection' is not attainable, it is a pipe dream.

I don't think the government should be raising people's children for them. Although I'm inclined to change my mind after seeing some chav families.

How about somewhat perfect? :E

 

[kirovman]

How about somewhat perfect? :E

I think the definition of perfection is perceived differently by different people.

For example, Hitler thought that perfect meant the so called "Ayran Race".

So their entire concept of perfection is flawed, since it is envisioned by an imperfect human

 

[Jintor]

So perfection must be envisioned by the perfect being before it is perfection?

 

[kirovman]

Nope, I'm just saying that people have different ideas of perfection.

For example, your and my idea of a perfect utopian society might be completely different.

 

[15357]

Nope, I'm just saying that people have different ideas of perfection.

For example, your and my idea of a perfect utopian society might be completely different.

Yes, some people might see City17 as an utopia while some of us (or most) don't.